Can Cal win and get to a FF

[the nail at the foul line]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

 

[CUJO_1970]

Cal can’t even make the final four of the SEC tournament.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

Yep, crazy as it sounds absolutely nothing would surprise me with this team. What I know is the offensive talent is there for them to make a run. If they can get just remotely better at defense we have a chance.

Regardless of how any of us feel about Calipari, if he adds even one more title his tenure has a totally different look and feel. The problem is a FF isn't enough.

 

[BBUK]

The players can if they play like they can play.


Cal cannot. He cannot get out of his own way by admitting he is at best a crap coach. Cal deferring to his staff to coach may give the team a chance. If Cal does as Cal has done, this team does not possess the talent to overcome...................................Cal. (Only the 2012 team possesed that type of talent during this run of Cal's.), (Not going to the 96, 97, or 98 team...)

 

[LineSkiCat14]

We need, at least 2 players to figure it out, be dependable, AND be used. So for example, that kind of rules out Sheppard for now, until Cal realizes he needs to unleash him.

So for now, you have Dilly, as a player who I think can step up in March.. and that's kind of it. Reeves might be there, but I do think that come time for the tournament, his abilities might start to get capped with better teams, But he will still be valuable.

So that realistically just leaves DJ for point, Shep and Edwards for wing players, and Ugo as a shot blocking presence. I don't think Adou or BigZ have this in them yet, for various reasons, to be give us 18 and 7 across the tournament. Bradshaw isn't happening, he's been getting less and less use, Tre is injured.

But we just need the light to come on for a few of these guys. And you sort of get the sense that each one is doing some things better and more consistent. Edwards is better now than he was in December. Ugo Is better. Shep is sort of coming out of that slump. Get one of them to go along with Dilly and that would be big for us.

 

[Lempface]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

Cal is done. He won't ever win anything that matters here again.

On your point about every 10 years that is mainly due to 4 in 11 seasons in the 40s and 50s.

We have 4 in the last 65 years but to be fair we have 3 in 28 and that's close to the one per 10 average.

I'm just saying this program has had a lot of title gaps outside of a glorious run in the mid to late 90s since the true glory days of 48 to 58 seasons.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

This is really wrong. We have had a multi-year period where we performed below the standard. Maintaining the standard has not been met.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

This team has an awful lot of hurdles to get to that point, and we have like 3 weeks left until the SECT. Not sure it's going to happen. I think we can MAYBE pull off a Final4.. But to do that, we really need to win this week or at the VERY least, have a good showing (I don't expect UK to win many road games at this point).

 

[BBUK]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

Key word..................... "IF".... Iffy was a girl, they'd have called him Effy. -T. Ernie Ford

Note: Cal lucked into 2012 with the team he had... The NBA lockout, yadda, yadda, yadda....so "IF" that had not happened it is likely he wouldn't have the one title. In how many years?...

Marcus Camby era as well.... "IF"... Memphis...... "IF"...

 

[kywildcat41086]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

Cal’s been done since he signed that lifetime contract in 2019… Stats don’t lie…

 

[TankedCat]

can UK do it? yes

but its just being hopeful that it can happen based on 3 or 4 longshot teams in the history of the NCAA tournament. Even in Cal's history , this team , at this time of the year, already has more losses than his other final four teams, and all those teams made it to the SEC championship game

 

[CUJO_1970]

As long as Cal is here we will have fans perpetually stuck in the bargaining phase.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Right now this team isn't even in the conversation as far as competing for a final four/title
A lot would have to go right for that to happen.

As far as the overall part, listen if Cal gets two that puts him in some rarified air here. It's not something that could ever be taken away.

That being said, I do happen to think this goes beyond titles. If you are a top program you want to be consistently good year in and year out. We've had too many seasons IMO (the NITs, the 9-16 season where those cannot happen here.

There was another thread on here about Bill Self and they posted their seedings under Self and our seedings under Cal. Heck even if 11 and 14 when we had good teams that went far in the tournament, we didn't have particularly good seasons (hence the worser seeds).

So I don't know. I think if a title was to be won someone could praise Cal for what he was able to accomplish here while at the same time questioning whether that's the best option going forward. You have to be more consistent than this.

 

[The_Answer1313]

On the flipside to that, say he doesn't win a title this season but we become a team that's consistently in the conversation for most of the years remaining under Cal here. I'd sign up for that. Because I'd be willing to bet that at least ONE of those seasons turns into a final four and possibly title.

 

[truebluewildcat]

I think Cal can do what he wants when he wants at a place like UK.

He put his mind to every damn team in the league having an alumnus, and a billion dollars' worth of contracts...and he did it.

As much as I disagree with the OAD philosophy long run, and the fact that blue bloods or CBB in general is just a just combine/development camp for the league, the fact that he called his shot from day one introductory address is actually quite impressive.

So, in his defense, nobody can say this is a surprise. He walked right in and said what was going to transpire.

The only mistake Cal makes is he'll reference March and talk about Camp Cal, kids are young, they just need more time to develop. Thus leading everyone to believe, okay, post christmas break, and once conference season really takes off things will improve and the young kids with potential will start to improve and look like a team that can advance in the big dance.

To his credit that was pretty much the case first half of his tenure. He did some work in March.

However, we're pretty much going on a decade since last real run at it. That can't be argued. So, Cal needs to decide what he wants to do. If he's done all he set out to do, great, time to retire. If he wants to keep stuffing the league, great, then just come out and say it, remind everyone that's the goal. If he wants to hunt FFs and another banner, then he needs to correct course and do that.

 

[RunninRichie]

Cal is done. He won't ever win anything that matters here again.

On your point about every 10 years that is mainly due to 4 in 11 seasons in the 40s and 50s.

We have 4 in the last 65 years but to be fair we have 3 in 28 and that's close to the one per 10 average.

I'm just saying this program has had a lot of title gaps outside of a glorious run in the mid to late 90s since the true glory days of 48 to 58 seasons.

The NCAA tournament began in 1939. Between 1939 and 1998, UK won 7 national titles. That's 7 titles in 59 years, or one every 8.4 years. Between 1948 and 1998, UK's title to year ration was one title for every 7.1 years. If you remove the probation/forfeit years, it's actually one title every 6.7 years.

Between 1939 and 2012, UK won 8 titles, or one title every 9.1 years (8.6 years if you remove probation years or the 1954 season).

So even at our worst, we're winning a national title every 9.1 years before 2013 ( or 8.8 years if you remove the probation/forfeited seasons).

Historically, UK is averaging:

1. An Elite Eight every 2.1 years (or an Elite Eight every other year). Historically, finishing with an Elite Eight is expected every other year.
2. A Final Four every 4.7 years.
3. A National Title Game appearance every 6.6 years.
4. A National Title every 9.9 years (1939-2021 *counting the Covid year, the two probation years, and the forfeited tournament year).

***Also, some of our fans are quick to point out the "gaps" between titles, but they rarely point out what resulted from those gaps, which was this: multiple head coaching changes happened *because* of the gaps.

The gap between 1978 and 1996 saw *three* different head coaches (one was fired and one was pressured out).

The gap between 1998 and 2012 also saw *three* different head coaches (one was fired and one was pressured out).



Kudos @Son_Of_Saul

 

[BobbyBlue32]

The players can if they play like they can play.


Cal cannot. He cannot get out of his own way by admitting he is at best a crap coach. Cal deferring to his staff to coach may give the team a chance. If Cal does as Cal has done, this team does not possess the talent to overcome...................................Cal. (Only the 2012 team possesed that type of talent during this run of Cal's.), (Not going to the 96, 97, or 98 team...)

Yup, Cal cannot, never has, never will. How do we have so many dumb fans in our fanbase?

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Don't think he can anymore, and certainly not this season. After the Gonzaga loss, I'm mostly deflated. Our loss this Saturday to Auburn will only numb, not anger me with this season at this point.

 

[AGEE11]

Right now this team isn't even in the conversation as far as competing for a final four/title
A lot would have to go right for that to happen.

As far as the overall part, listen if Cal gets two that puts him in some rarified air here. It's not something that could ever be taken away.

That being said, I do happen to think this goes beyond titles. If you are a top program you want to be consistently good year in and year out. We've had too many seasons IMO (the NITs, the 9-16 season where those cannot happen here.

There was another thread on here about Bill Self and they posted their seedings under Self and our seedings under Cal. Heck even if 11 and 14 when we had good teams that went far in the tournament, we didn't have particularly good seasons (hence the worser seeds).

So I don't know. I think if a title was to be won someone could praise Cal for what he was able to accomplish here while at the same time questioning whether that's the best option going forward. You have to be more consistent than this.

I agree we aren't in the conversation for the Final Four now. But neither was Miami, SD St, and FAU last year. Same with UNCheat the year before. UCLA the year before that.

Thing is this team is more than capable of getting hot for three weeks and making a serious run in the tournament.

Flip side, they can lay a turd round one...

We were in the conversation in 2017, 2019, 2020, and 2022. 2017 and 2019 we were flat out robbed by officiating in the Elite 8. 2020 there was no tournament. 2022, we were the last of the blue bloods to get caught in the first round mainly due to injuries, but went in to the tournament with high odds to win.

We have been in the conversation 4 of the last 7 years. 2021 was inexcusable, period. 2018 and 2023 we were mediocre. Don't get me wrong UK should not only compete in 4 of 8 years (counting this one), but it's not like we haven't been in the conversation.

Cal was correct, this is a 10 year job and he probably should have kept it at that.

 

[know1]

We need, at least 2 players to figure it out, be dependable, AND be used. So for example, that kind of rules out Sheppard for now, until Cal realizes he needs to unleash him.

So for now, you have Dilly, as a player who I think can step up in March.. and that's kind of it. Reeves might be there, but I do think that come time for the tournament, his abilities might start to get capped with better teams, But he will still be valuable.

So that realistically just leaves DJ for point, Shep and Edwards for wing players, and Ugo as a shot blocking presence. I don't think Adou or BigZ have this in them yet, for various reasons, to be give us 18 and 7 across the tournament. Bradshaw isn't happening, he's been getting less and less use, Tre is injured.

But we just need the light to come on for a few of these guys. And you sort of get the sense that each one is doing some things better and more consistent. Edwards is better now than he was in December. Ugo Is better. Shep is sort of coming out of that slump. Get one of them to go along with Dilly and that would be big for us.

You talk like Cal.

We shouldn't have to wait for players to "figure it out" or wait for "the light to come on". Cal needs to figure it out for them and turn on their lights. He's the coach - he should be teaching them and motivating them.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

Man, Rob had a "Caleb Love type tournament" game at home against Tennessee...and they lost by 11 and weren't ever really in the game.

I honestly can't figure out the folks that still believe this team can make a run. Talent is there, but man...25 games in and they are what they are. I hate saying this, but the best thing that can probably happen is going 4-3 the rest of the regular season, win Thursday and lose Friday in the SEC tourney, and a second round exit in the NCAAT. I hate it, but Cal is done. He's no longer that actual real Cal. He's old and resting on past successes. His drive isn't there any longer.

 

[bigbluedon]

Don't think he can anymore, and certainly not this season. After the Gonzaga loss, I'm mostly deflated. Our loss this Saturday to Auburn will only numb, not anger me with this season at this point.

I just watched the Ole Miss game last night. And the same thing stands out every game. We stand around and watch our point guard dribble and if he can’t get by his man we end up throwing the ball away or forcing up a bad shot. Still not enough movement and picks away from the ball. Makes us too easy to guard. Has haunted us forever and will continue to until Cal leaves because he won’t change.

 

[WeWant9]

Right now this team isn't even in the conversation as far as competing for a final four/title
A lot would have to go right for that to happen.

As far as the overall part, listen if Cal gets two that puts him in some rarified air here. It's not something that could ever be taken away.

That being said, I do happen to think this goes beyond titles. If you are a top program you want to be consistently good year in and year out. We've had too many seasons IMO (the NITs, the 9-16 season where those cannot happen here.

There was another thread on here about Bill Self and they posted their seedings under Self and our seedings under Cal. Heck even if 11 and 14 when we had good teams that went far in the tournament, we didn't have particularly good seasons (hence the worser seeds).

So I don't know. I think if a title was to be won someone could praise Cal for what he was able to accomplish here while at the same time questioning whether that's the best option going forward. You have to be more consistent than this.

Agreed. It’s why I’ve never liked the whole “wait for March” mantra. There’s a whole season to be played before March, those records and accolades are pretty important to a blue blood program. I’m not a title or bust kind of guy, but you need to win some hardware for me to consider it a good to great season: SEC regular season, SECT title, FF or beyond. UK is three years in with no hardware, and a very good chance it extends to 4 years. That’s unacceptable for UK, even more so when you account our record vs rivals and the top 25.

If you’re going tell fans to wait for March, and lose in the regular season a lot, you sure as hell better be getting to the FF at a high clip. UK is basically having mediocre regular seasons, now with early exits in the tournaments. That’s a bad mix.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

You talk like Cal.

We shouldn't have to wait for players to "figure it out" or wait for "the light to come on". Cal needs to figure it out for them and turn on their lights. He's the coach - he should be teaching them and motivating them.

I'll tell him that lol.

 

[TheDude73]

We can all speculate until the cows (Cow) come home, but of course with this team and coach, no one knows.

The safe bet is to say we won't make much of a deep run (max S16) given his recent few years of history. But the votes you get also depends on how strongly the voters are for or against Calipari right now. The strongly against crowd will be 100% negative and say "nope, not gonna happen", while the middling crowd says "not likely, but maybe, if A, B, C fall into place...I'm hopeful and think we can", then the apologist crowd is "Nothing in the past matters, all that matters is now, Cal is our coach, he's HOF, the game has just changed and he's still adapting...I like our chances".

 

[Smashcat]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

If last year's awful defensively Miami Final Four team can make it, then this team can if healthy. Also have to avoid extremely physical teams.

 

[TankedCat]

On the flipside to that, say he doesn't win a title this season but we become a team that's consistently in the conversation for most of the years remaining under Cal here. I'd sign up for that. Because I'd be willing to bet that at least ONE of those seasons turns into a final four and possibly title.

probably but that is such an unknown

most talented team he has had in years, the "Cal is back" team , and UK was in the conversation for about 2 weeks.

to define what consistently being in the conversation is, its not 6-8 losses by mid February, it is - at the top of the SEC and if not winning, challenging the team in first place at the end of the season (no more than 1 loss difference between teams), a top 10 ranking consistently over the last 2 months of the season, and at least two stretches of 6 straight wins

so yea, I think we'd all take what I mentioned above , which I believe is a very, very reasonable expectation for Kentucky basketball - yet its something that seems completely out of reach for Calipari, for a single season, much less multiple ones.

 

[TankedCat]

We have been in the conversation 4 of the last 7 years.

I don't agree

If we were in the conversation , it was based solely on reputation between 2011-2015 and not actually what was happening on the court.

 

[qwesley]

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament.

He has the talent but has played 30 mins only 3 times, 24 or under 15 times. The 4 perimeter guys should be splitting the 120 mins for the most part with JE getting spare change.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Agreed. It’s why I’ve never liked the whole “wait for March” mantra. There’s a whole season to be played before March, those records and accolades are pretty important to a blue blood program. I’m not a title or bust kind of guy, but you need to win some hardware for me to consider it a good to great season: SEC regular season, SECT title, FF or beyond. UK is three years in with no hardware, and a very good chance it extends to 4 years. That’s unacceptable for UK, even more so when you account our record vs rivals and the top 25.

If you’re going tell fans to wait for March, and lose in the regular season a lot, you sure as hell better be getting to the FF at a high clip. UK is basically having mediocre regular seasons, now with early exits in the tournaments. That’s a bad mix.

Right exactly. If you are going to put all your eggs into one basketball and tell us wait till March, then you need to perform in March. It was ok having seasons like 11 and 14 when they resulted in final fours, but if u are having meh seasons and not getting tournament results either, what are you really accomplishing here.

 

[Mike-McD]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

Unlike AB, Edwards, and Wagner, if Dilly has a slow first half he's benched for the rest of the game.

Because wE dEvELoP pLaYeRs HeRe

 

[The_Answer1313]

I agree we aren't in the conversation for the Final Four now. But neither was Miami, SD St, and FAU last year. Same with UNCheat the year before. UCLA the year before that.

Thing is this team is more than capable of getting hot for three weeks and making a serious run in the tournament.

Flip side, they can lay a turd round one...

We were in the conversation in 2017, 2019, 2020, and 2022. 2017 and 2019 we were flat out robbed by officiating in the Elite 8. 2020 there was no tournament. 2022, we were the last of the blue bloods to get caught in the first round mainly due to injuries, but went in to the tournament with high odds to win.

We have been in the conversation 4 of the last 7 years. 2021 was inexcusable, period. 2018 and 2023 we were mediocre. Don't get me wrong UK should not only compete in 4 of 8 years (counting this one), but it's not like we haven't been in the conversation.

Cal was correct, this is a 10 year job and he probably should have kept it at that.

See I don't know. 2 seeds in 17. 19 and 22 so those years definitely. 2020 I think some hold in high regard but we were only a projected 4 seed. I don't really consider that year to be contending.

Is 3 of last 8 acceptable? Now we are on the edge a bit here.

Then for reference you scroll over to Kansas and see what their seeding was the past 8 years and how many years they were in the conversation. Duke in that same stretch had more years as well in the conversation.

I think that needs to be the realistic goal here. Compare it to the other blue bloods and how often they are in the mix. We need to be in the mix as much as those teams are. The reason why Kansas has been chipping wins off that all time wins gap is because we haven't been.

 

[crestcat]

If this team makes a final four or better, it will be in spite of Cal not because of him

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Cal can’t even make the final four of the SEC tournament.

I’ve been to every UK SEC tourney game since Cal has been here.

We are 24-7 in those games. With 6 titles.

As for the original question, yes. Cal can and will. And there will be more.

We had one bad year. And it was the Covid year.

We had one bad upset.

That’s all the CHC needs to spread their non basketball hate to basketball.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Man, Rob had a "Caleb Love type tournament" game at home against Tennessee...and they lost by 11 and weren't ever really in the game.

I honestly can't figure out the folks that still believe this team can make a run. Talent is there, but man...25 games in and they are what they are. I hate saying this, but the best thing that can probably happen is going 4-3 the rest of the regular season, win Thursday and lose Friday in the SEC tourney, and a second round exit in the NCAAT. I hate it, but Cal is done. He's no longer that actual real Cal. He's old and resting on past successes. His drive isn't there any longer.

My point is, even if we get hot and make a run, all is not right with the world. One UNC, Miami, FAU, SD St run does not make up for years of neglect.

 

[DreadLox]

And then we'd get to say to the lynch mob,

 

[Mike-McD]

I’ve been to every UK SEC tourney game since Cal has been here.

We are 24-7 in those games. With 6 titles.

As for the original question, yes. Cal can and will. And there will be more.

We had one bad year. And it was the Covid year.

We had one bad upset.

That’s all the CHC needs to spread their non basketball hate to basketball.

One bad upset?

Vandy last year, twice
UNCW
Evansville
St. Peters
Unranked Florida at home (Cal choked)
SCjr and Arkansas in Rupp last year

How many SEC tournament titles does Cow have in the last 7 years?

 

[the nail at the foul line]

He has the talent but has played 30 mins only 3 times, 24 or under 15 times. The 4 perimeter guys should be splitting the 120 mins for the most part with JE getting spare change.

Technically these 4 should get around 30 minutes each. And be the four that gets every minute at those 3 spots in competitive games

 

[Jamal Mercer]

I’ve been to every UK SEC tourney game since Cal has been here.

We are 24-7 in those games. With 6 titles.

As for the original question, yes. Cal can and will. And there will be more.

We had one bad year. And it was the Covid year.

We had one bad upset.

That’s all the CHC needs to spread their non basketball hate to basketball.

I can’t figure out which of these 3 you are:

1. Employee of UK
2. Relative of Cal
3. Mentally handicapped

Or maybe a combo of the 3.

If it’s 3, I feel bad, and I apologize.