Can Cal win and get to a FF

[LineSkiCat14]

See I don't know. 2 seeds in 17. 19 and 22 so those years definitely. 2020 I think some hold in high regard but we were only a projected 4 seed. I don't really consider that year to be contending.

Is 3 of last 8 acceptable? Now we are on the edge a bit here.

Then for reference you scroll over to Kansas and see what their seeding was the past 8 years and how many years they were in the conversation. Duke in that same stretch had more years as well in the conversation.

I think that needs to be the realistic goal here. Compare it to the other blue bloods and how often they are in the mix. We need to be in the mix as much as those teams are. The reason why Kansas has been chipping wins off that all time wins gap is because we haven't been.

So just for clarification, and Im not sure if this changes your mind on 2020.. but at the time the season was cancelled, Kentucky was

8th in the AP
7th in the Coaches
Katz had us a 2-seed in his final bracket
BPI had us as a 2-seed
LUNARDI, of all people, has us as a 2-seed

Won 9 of it's last 10, 13 of it's last 15, arguably playing some of the best basketball in the country towards the end, certainly a team improving and climbing the ranks.

I think we were at least a 3-seed, probably a 2-seed if we win two games in the SECT.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I can’t figure out which of these 3 you are:

1. Employee of UK
2. Relative of Cal
3. Mentally handicapped

Or maybe a combo of the 3.

If it’s 3, I feel bad, and I apologize.

4 Troll

 

[WeWant9]

4 Troll

There are days I feel that is morg, trolling all of us as a die hard Cal fan.

 

[Bluesbrother]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

NFW

 

[Wildcats1st]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

No because Rob is a part time player. We re not getting to any ffs

 

[moses1uk]

as long as we dont play Uconn or Purdue or Houston

 

[The_Answer1313]

So just for clarification, and Im not sure if this changes your mind on 2020.. but at the time the season was cancelled, Kentucky was

8th in the AP
7th in the Coaches
Katz had us a 2-seed in his final bracket
BPI had us as a 2-seed
LUNARDI, of all people, has us as a 2-seed

Won 9 of it's last 10, 13 of it's last 15, arguably playing some of the best basketball in the country towards the end, certainly a team improving and climbing the ranks.

I think we were at least a 3-seed, probably a 2-seed if we win two games in the SECT.

I think it certainly can be debated one way or the other. We were only 29th in Kenpom that year. I mean we are currently 25th this season and I'm not sure anyone thinks we are currently in the conversation.

The four seed comes back Bracket Matrix

https://bracketmatrix.com/matrix_2020.html

I think we could split it and say probably a 3 seed.

It may have been a borderline team. Given that Vegas lines typically match Kenpom you are talking about quite a bit of teams we wouldn't have been favored on that year. Then again, had the conference tournament played out and we won it, who knows maybe some of those underdog games we become favorites in.

I think tho the overall point is we've kind of been on this rollarcoaster past few years where we have been so up and down.

I try to be realistic with expectations here. The landscape of college basketball has changed. We'd all like UK to completely dominate but I don't see a scenario where that happens anymore regardless who is coaching this team. If I look at KP right now and I look at 4,6, and 7 I see Auburn, UT and Alabama respectfully. It's just not realistic to think that UK is going to dominate in a league with three other teams that are very much in the conversation this season.

So the goal is........be in that conversation as much as possible. That's the only way this turns into final fours/titles.

Unless you are Uconn which can just seem to pop up whenever and end up winning a title lol

 

[the nail at the foul line]

NFW

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I think it certainly can be debated one way or the other. We were only 29th in Kenpom that year. I mean we are currently 25th this season and I'm not sure anyone thinks we are currently in the conversation.

The four seed comes back Bracket Matrix

https://bracketmatrix.com/matrix_2020.html

I think we could split it and say probably a 3 seed.

It may have been a borderline team. Given that Vegas lines typically match Kenpom you are talking about quite a bit of teams we wouldn't have been favored on that year. Then again, had the conference tournament played out and we won it, who knows maybe some of those underdog games we become favorites in.

I think tho the overall point is we've kind of been on this rollarcoaster past few years where we have been so up and down.

Yes I did see KP had us at 29th. But in regards to this year, we were actually surging that season, where as this season we are sputtering. I'm not sure that is much of a factor, but it DOES make me think that UK team was likely winning 2 games in the SECT, and in that likely scenario, we get to a 3-seed, maybe a 2-seed I would think.

And how we play from there? No one knows. We very well could have lost in the opening round again.. or, make it to the Title game. I think the betting odds would have been an Elite 8.

All I do know, is that UK was seen as a top10 team when that season got cancelled.. and some people like to conveniently throw that entire season away.

I'll tell you this.. do you think if Kentucky lost 12 games and was trending as a 9-seed, and the season got cancelled.. the anti-Cal wouldn't have used that season against him? Despite not knowing if we make a run? Abso-f*cking-lutely they would lol.

If I could, I would play it safe and take a 3-seed from here out, forever.. I would take that all day because a 3-seed means you're good enough to push for a Final4, which team clearly was "good enough" to push for a Final 4.

 

[CatPhight]

I’ve been to every UK SEC tourney game since Cal has been here.

We are 24-7 in those games. With 6 titles.

As for the original question, yes. Cal can and will. And there will be more.

We had one bad year. And it was the Covid year.

We had one bad upset.

That’s all the CHC needs to spread their non basketball hate to basketball.

How many have you seen in the last half decade?

 

[$Z71$]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

Crazy thing is going into the season the same posters who constantly complain about the wrong lineups, players performance and Cals short comings are the same ones who said we wouldn't be any good this year anyway. So preseason their expectations were we weren't that good, we perform to the level they expected and they are all having high speed come aparts. Know why? Expectations.

The first third of the season we performed well and suddenly we were ranked 6th and hunting a 1 seed and everyone's expectations changed from we weren't that good to that we were way better than we really were. The team and players didn't change your expectations you did as a fan. Now they've all jumped to the opposite side and are so down on the team that we are a "terrible" team and will never win anything. Neither side of the expectations are true, and people allow emotions to cloud their thoughts and it really shows in the posts they make on here.

In reality we have performed right at our preseason expectations. What we haven't done is reach nearly our ceiling which sucks because time is running out. In reality we have a talented team that hasn't found their groove yet and may never find it. Luckily we do have top tier guard play which is important in March. We get hot and anything could happen. Unfortunately our defense is hot dog shit and must improve a decent amount for us to win 6 straight tournament games. People blame anything and everything when things don't meet the expectations they've arrived at in their mind and this message board is the perfect case study for that.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

@The_Answer1313

I mean that 2019/20 team that people think wasnt very good.. Had lost 3 games since late December. Just three. You're going to have 1, maybe 2 teams this year who pull something like that off. UK's metrics took a huge hit after EVansville and then the two b2b losses to Utah and OSU, and they climbed back. I'd love to see what UK's metrics were from Jan 1st on.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Yes I did see KP had us at 29th. But in regards to this year, we were actually surging that season, where as this season we are sputtering. I'm not sure that is much of a factor, but it DOES make me think that UK team was likely winning 2 games in the SECT, and in that likely scenario, we get to a 3-seed, maybe a 2-seed I would think.

And how we play from there? No one knows. We very well could have lost in the opening round again.. or, make it to the Title game. I think the betting odds would have been an Elite 8.

All I do know, is that UK was seen as a top10 team when that season got cancelled.. and some people like to conveniently throw that entire season away.

I'll tell you this.. do you think if Kentucky lost 12 games and was trending as a 9-seed, and the season got cancelled.. the anti-Cal wouldn't have used that season against him? Despite not knowing if we make a run? Abso-f*cking-lutely they would lol.

If I could, I would play it safe and take a 3-seed from here out, forever.. I would take that all day because a 3-seed means you're good enough to push for a Final4, which team clearly was "good enough" to push for a Final 4.

I almost want to kind of throw that season out all together. You're right. There's no way the anti Cal crowd wouldn't have mentioned that season had it been awful. Thing is no one is really going to know what the outcome of that season would have been.

On a similar note, people keep using our previous winning % as a sign. They include the 9-16 season. Maybe not the most popular opinion on this board, but i would throw that season out too. That season wasn't normal at all. Duke was 13-11 that season and was crap as well.

I would look at post 15 like this:
17, 19, 22 = Good. Teams that definitely had a shot. Heck 17 and 19 we were one possession away from final fours in both those years.
16,18,23 = Not good.

20 and 21.........I can't really even take seriously. No one know what would have happened in 20 and in 21 sure we can say that was an awful season and it was but I just don't know how that season could give anyone any indication on what the future is going to look like. Not just UK but any team that year.

 

[The_Answer1313]

@The_Answer1313

I mean that 2019/20 team that people think wasnt very good.. Had lost 3 games since late December. Just three. You're going to have 1, maybe 2 teams this year who pull something like that off. UK's metrics took a huge hit after EVansville and then the two b2b losses to Utah and OSU, and they climbed back. I'd love to see what UK's metrics were from Jan 1st on.

You know going back and looking at it, before Evansville we were 2nd. We dropped to 5th after that game. Despite winning the next six, we dropped to 8th. After the Utah game, it was down to 15th. We kind of hovered there until conference play. Despite going 14-3 in conference we fell. We reached as low as 37th on Feb 1st after we lost to Auburn. Then reeled off eight straight wins to get around where we ended up ranked.

It was really the fact we didn't win in the SEC by a large margin. We only outscored our SEC opponents by 0.08 points per possession that season. Which is "good" but not "great".

Just out of curiosity on Bartovik I filered from Jan 1 2020 to the end of that season and here's what I see:
Kentucky 25th 16-3 overall 21st offense/52nd defense.

Which is very much on line with the 24th/52nd I see on Kenpom for the entire season.

Maybe we make a run that year but the metrics certainly wasn't showing that.

 

[Lempface]

Key word..................... "IF".... Iffy was a girl, they'd have called him Effy. -T. Ernie Ford

Note: Cal lucked into 2012 with the team he had... The NBA lockout, yadda, yadda, yadda....so "IF" that had not happened it is likely he wouldn't have the one title. In how many years?...

Marcus Camby era as well.... "IF"... Memphis...... "IF"...

The reply was to an "IF" statement. Keyly the remark about beyond a FF still not being enough.

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

I’ve been to every UK SEC tourney game since Cal has been here.

We are 24-7 in those games. With 6 titles.

As for the original question, yes. Cal can and will. And there will be more.

We had one bad year. And it was the Covid year.

We had one bad upset.

That’s all the CHC needs to spread their non basketball hate to basketball.

My goodness. SMH wow

 

[BBUK]

The reply was to an "IF" statement. Keyly the remark about beyond a FF still not being enough.

Huh?

 

[Eagles_Ball]

My point is, even if we get hot and make a run, all is not right with the world. One UNC, Miami, FAU, SD St run does not make up for years of neglect.

Couldn't agree more...but nothing will happen if they do make a run. But again, I think that run is highly unlikely.

 

[UKNothinButNet]

This is pretty silly. If Cal wins the tournament this year he'll be one of the few coaches ever with multiple wins and the only other one than Rupp here at UK.

He'll be averaging a win every 7 years or so. UK as a whole, with the second most in history, is averaging a win a bit over every 10 years.

Yeah Cal has had some clunkers of seasons, but if the goal is to win championships... He'd be doing it at a rate even better than Rupp.

"If Cal wins the tournament..."

If optimizers couldn't use the word "IF", then they wouldn't be able to complete a sentence.

 

[AGEE11]

I don't agree

If we were in the conversation , it was based solely on reputation between 2011-2015 and not actually what was happening on the court.

2017 and 2019 were Elite 8 teams that got robbed by officials

2020 would have been a 2 seed. 2022 was the top two seed.

Top 8 in the nation is in the conversation.

To say we weren't is letting the debacle of 2021 cloud perception.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

no, our players could be perfect and the refs will not let them make a final four. Either Cal will eff it up or the refs/ncaa will for him. this is why we need to hire a well liked good coach.

 

[TankedCat]

2017 and 2019 were Elite 8 teams that got robbed by officials

2020 would have been a 2 seed. 2022 was the top two seed.

Top 8 in the nation is in the conversation.

To say we weren't is letting the debacle of 2021 cloud perception.

I'm not going to hear about the conspiracy of officiating making us lose

Also in 2020 Ashton Hagans was pretty disgruntled at the end for whatever reason.

 

[Skyguyb27]

Yes.

Let's say Dilly has a Caleb Love type tournament. Then UK could advance to the FF. Maybe even better.

Now the real question is can Cal win at a level expected at the University of Kentucky and consistently get to the EE and FF?

No and isn't particularly close. Cal is sub 70 percent the last few years. That is below the UK standard.

So, if the first thing happens please spare us about how wrong we all were. Because until Cal can win at a consistent level expected, he is not the right man for the job.

Can he? Yes. Will he? No, unless hell freezes over. Look at all the talent and over a billion dollars in NBA contracts etc and only 1 title to show for it. There’s a really big sample size that says he fails miserably even with superior talent.

 

[ukjenning44]

The FF isn‘t on Cal’s list of to do’s.
Having 4 lottery picks would be his dream season but that’s not happening.
He will settle for 4 draft picks, one being a lottery pick so he can make an appearance in the green room.

We want the wrong things out of KY basketball.
Winning games, FF’s, and championships shouldn’t matter.

Cal can make the FF if 64 other teams are prohibited from playing in the tournament.

 

[BBUK]

On the flipside to that, say he doesn't win a title this season but we become a team that's consistently in the conversation for most of the years remaining under Cal here. I'd sign up for that. Because I'd be willing to bet that at least ONE of those seasons turns into a final four and possibly title.

Sadly, that is a pipe dream with Cal here...

 

[BBUK]

So just for clarification, and Im not sure if this changes your mind on 2020.. but at the time the season was cancelled, Kentucky was

8th in the AP
7th in the Coaches
Katz had us a 2-seed in his final bracket
BPI had us as a 2-seed
LUNARDI, of all people, has us as a 2-seed

Won 9 of it's last 10, 13 of it's last 15, arguably playing some of the best basketball in the country towards the end, certainly a team improving and climbing the ranks.

I think we were at least a 3-seed, probably a 2-seed if we win two games in the SECT.

Only "IF" no china virus....

 

[The_Answer1313]

Sadly, that is a pipe dream with Cal here...

Yeah given the track record it's unlikely. Even pre 15 was kind of up and down.
2010 was really good
2011 wasn't but was saved with the tournament run
2012 obviously good
2013 NIT
2014 wasn't but was saved with the tournament run
2015 obviously good.

I feel like we are batting about 50% here. It's probably reasonable to expect similar in the future.

Tho no one will care if Cal does indeed turn this into another title or two IMO Just makes it less likely.

 

[CatPatrick13]

I am going to say not a chance, to see if I can reverse jinx it.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

More proof that some don't even want us to get to a final four as it would ruin their day and their agenda to see others enjoy it. If we do get to a final four, some immediately will say "so what". How sad.. Luckily only a tiny fraction of UK fans are so petty.

 

[TankedCat]

More proof that some don't even want us to get to a final four as it would ruin their day and their agenda to see others enjoy it. If we do get to a final four, some immediately will say "so what". How sad.. Luckily only a tiny fraction of UK fans are so petty.

on the flip side, there are too many that are willing to talk how great Cal will be next year after a second game tourney loss.

 

[crestcat]

I'm not going to hear about the conspiracy of officiating making us lose

Also in 2020 Ashton Hagans was pretty disgruntled at the end for whatever reason.

Was the rest of the team gruntled? Lol

 

[TankedCat]

Was the rest of the team gruntled? Lol

no idea, I just know the last game of the season our PG didn't want to play

 

[Lempface]

"If Cal wins the tournament..."

If optimizers couldn't use the word "IF", then they wouldn't be able to complete a sentence.

Are you guys able to read? The OP stated that even if Cal won that it wouldn't undo the bad. My point was for a fan base so insistent on winning championships that if Cal does what OP suggested, it would put the guy in rare air.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

no, our players could be perfect and the refs will not let them make a final four. Either Cal will eff it up or the refs/ncaa will for him. this is why we need to hire a well liked good coach.

You can make an argument that 17 and 19 was exactly this.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Are you guys able to read? The OP stated that even if Cal won that it wouldn't undo the bad. My point was for a fan base so insistent on winning championships that if Cal does what OP suggested, it would put the guy in rare air.

Knight was in rare air in 1995.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

I just watched the Ole Miss game last night. And the same thing stands out every game. We stand around and watch our point guard dribble and if he can’t get by his man we end up throwing the ball away or forcing up a bad shot. Still not enough movement and picks away from the ball. Makes us too easy to guard. Has haunted us forever and will continue to until Cal leaves because he won’t change.

 

[Hjack]

Maybe the Final Four in the SEC tournament.

 

[North Carolina Blue Wildcat]

I don’t think Cal can get out of his own way. There will be some story within a story that he needs to play out-some kid needed this opportunity, he didn’t want to hurt someones feelings, etc… winning is secondary to how he thinks and somewhere down the line he’ll be the smartest guy in the room and screw it all up.

 

[Mike-McD]

So just for clarification, and Im not sure if this changes your mind on 2020.. but at the time the season was cancelled, Kentucky was

8th in the AP
7th in the Coaches
Katz had us a 2-seed in his final bracket
BPI had us as a 2-seed
LUNARDI, of all people, has us as a 2-seed

Won 9 of it's last 10, 13 of it's last 15, arguably playing some of the best basketball in the country towards the end, certainly a team improving and climbing the ranks.

I think we were at least a 3-seed, probably a 2-seed if we win two games in the SECT.

You did the same thing all the calbois do.

You left out the part where our starting point guard was ostensibly kicked off the team.

 

[Mike-McD]

Crazy thing is going into the season the same posters who constantly complain about the wrong lineups, players performance and Cals short comings are the same ones who said we wouldn't be any good this year anyway. So preseason their expectations were we weren't that good, we perform to the level they expected and they are all having high speed come aparts. Know why? Expectations.

The first third of the season we performed well and suddenly we were ranked 6th and hunting a 1 seed and everyone's expectations changed from we weren't that good to that we were way better than we really were. The team and players didn't change your expectations you did as a fan. Now they've all jumped to the opposite side and are so down on the team that we are a "terrible" team and will never win anything. Neither side of the expectations are true, and people allow emotions to cloud their thoughts and it really shows in the posts they make on here.

In reality we have performed right at our preseason expectations. What we haven't done is reach nearly our ceiling which sucks because time is running out. In reality we have a talented team that hasn't found their groove yet and may never find it. Luckily we do have top tier guard play which is important in March. We get hot and anything could happen. Unfortunately our defense is hot dog shit and must improve a decent amount for us to win 6 straight tournament games. People blame anything and everything when things don't meet the expectations they've arrived at in their mind and this message board is the perfect case study for that.

This is totally wrong.

Nobody is "blaming anything and everything" but Cal. Your word salad was a waste of time.

We ALL know that this team had a high ceiling. We saw what our players' potentials were.

And Cal messed it up and shows no intention of changing that.

That's why people are upset. Because Cal is singlehandedly turning a potentially good season into a dumpster fire.