Are you ready to move on from Stoops yet?

[Tittys73]

It took like 4 tries after Fulmer and 15 years. Bad example.

Tennessee did it after wandering in the wilderness ( mainly due to incredibly stupid Univ Presidents/ Chancellors) for 15 years by appointing a businessman, Randy Boyd, as the president of the University. The next step was to have a great chancellor, Donde Plowman, who knew that football was extremely important. Randy Boyd got rid of the thing that wouldn’t leave ( Fulmer, who has been fired twice deservedly so).
Next, most importantly, after the above, they hired Danny White as AD.
In his short tenure, football, basketball and baseball teams have all gotten first place votes.

 

[Tittys73]

How does that disprove my point? We went from coach to coach and never made any progress. We have a coach that wins more than any we have ever had and you want to go back to trying to find lightning in a bottle. Learn your history. It’s not easy to replace a good coach. UT struggled to do it after Phat retired. Alabama struggled for years. Texas has struggled for years. Florida is struggling. If you have any knowledge of college football you understand how hard it is to find an elite coach. Many programs go backwards when they lose a good coach, not forward. Again you have no clue.

Phat Phul Philmer was fired. Rightly so.

 

[cathouse]

Stoops is around a .500 coach for his tenure. He’s had some nice seasons, but he’s shown he is not capable of getting this program to a spot that can even remotely compete with the big dogs in the conference. He’s been good here as a whole, but some act like he’s Nick Saban. He’s an average coach at this point. He’ll beat bad teams. He’ll contend with solid teams and win some of those games. He’ll get blown out by the very good teams. That’s obvious at this point.

A well known coach once said you are who your record says you are.

CMS record is .500.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

It’s like LSU with Burrow…..it struck gold for that year. UT got lots of portal help and they are exploiting it. Hope its a one year fad.

It's not, their coach is good

 

[Tittys73]

He has only been here 10 years moron. Looking at the history of the 2 schools over the last 40 years which one has actually been the under-achiever the last ten years. Hint: Stoops is way ahead of the curve.

The above post is very revealing .
“ ….. he has only been here 10 years , moron”
Kentucky fans, the rational ones, like I try to be
Would say to themselves that 10 years is long enough . Maybe so maybe not. Here is a lot of vitriol on here regarding stoops.
I have said for years that UK scheduling these cupcakes almost always gets them off to 4-1 or 5-0 many years.
Big intersectional games ( not Louisville) upgrades exposure to recruits in other areas of the country, and, of course, more entertainment when home and home games are scheduled. As I said, before name another big boy team in the SEC that would ever agreed to play at Akron.
Vanderbilt maybe.

 

[RunninRichie]

Yes

 

[gojvc]

It's only 39% in conference games. 31-48.

He inherited a dumpster fire. He’s 27-28 in conference over the last seven years. Judge that as you will but let’s at least be fair.

 

[catben]

The above post is very revealing .
“ ….. he has only been here 10 years , moron”
Kentucky fans, the rational ones, like I try to be
Would say to themselves that 10 years is long enough . Maybe so maybe not. Here is a lot of vitriol on here regarding stoops.
I have said for years that UK scheduling these cupcakes almost always gets them off to 4-1 or 5-0 many years.
Big intersectional games ( not Louisville) upgrades exposure to recruits in other areas of the country, and, of course, more entertainment when home and home games are scheduled. As I said, before name another big boy team in the SEC that would ever agreed to play at Akron.
Vanderbilt maybe.

Shut up UT-Martin!!!

Why are you still here??????

You won the game and should be back with your own fans anticipating playing the most meaningful game your team has played in 2 decades. Yet you choose to be here with UK fans who you just can't get enough of.

You are a JOKE!!

 

[AE82]

He inherited a dumpster fire. He’s 27-28 in conference over the last seven years. Judge that as you will but let’s at least be fair.

We went to a bowl in 2010 and hired Stoops at the end of 2012. Is wasn't as bad as you suggest. However, we did spend the first 5 years under Stoops trying to get back to one.

TN was in shambles when they hired Heupel, they are contending for a playoff spot in year 2. The east has also been awful the last 7 years.

 

[K_TIME]

Ohh, you're right, it took him only 2 years. That's much better.

We shall see, but it's pretty pathetic he can beat us in just his 2nd year of a rebuild. I would expect that series to be much more competitive going forward. Which doesn't bode well for Stoops and UK.

I'm not only focused on 5-3 or this season. I have repeatedly referenced his full body of work. Last yeat was nice, but it isn't like we beat some big teams along the way. We beat a #23 ranked 10-4 big 10 team in the Citrus bowl. And I am pretty sure they had a couple major players sit out. Aside from the Bowl game, who was the best team we beat?

You were the one who brought up each of those names. I just listed their similarity to us this year. Now they are off-limits because they don't support your argument? 🤣

Stoops has had 5 OC's in 10 seasons. The problem isn't the OC, bud. It's the HC! We will be hiring our 4th OC in 4 seasons.

What was so special about Coen and our offense last year? It still wasn't that good overall. Coen didn't even by a house until the same month he accepted the Rams job. He was never planning on staying if he had a better offer.

So your solution is to do the same thing we have already done 5 times and hope it works out the 6th? We also need a new DC and ST coach. Plus some line coaches. So basically we need a whole new staff, but that's probably completely normal for a coach a decade into his tenure. 🤣

It's a mentality like yours that has and will continue to keep UK football mediocre or worse.

I love the simple statements "UK fans accept mediocrity is why UK is mediocre"....like it's a magical mindset change and a desire to fire coaches after poor results. So how did the mindset work for Nebraska football, Auburn football, heck even Tennessee football was in the much until maybe the least heralded hire of them all appears to be lightning in a bottle.

So go ahead and fire Stoops. If it's as simple as trying on shoes until one fits...go for it.

I do think it's entirely possible we've hit a ceiling with Stoops. His dependance on good offensive coordinators is a deficiency when you lose one. But it's not like UK has ever won bowl games like he has, finished ranked in the top 15 a few times like he has. Had dominance over solid but not great programs like USC, Mizzou, UL, etc...he literally owned them for long stretches. So while it's entirely possible to move past Stoops to better coach...history tells me it's more likely that we'll revert back down to a cellar SEC program which I'd be cautious with these arm chair fans mindsets.

 

[thepip]

I hear that....and look at the recent schools that fired a coach.

1. LSU.....Brian Kelly
2. Florida....Billy Napier
3. Auburn.....Brian Hairsten
4. Tennessee....Heupel
5. South Carolina....Beamer

6. Florida St....Mike Norvel
7. Miami....Crystobal
8. Va Tech...>Brent Prye
9. Oklahoma...Brent Venables
10. Notre Dame...Marcus Freeman
11. USC....Lincoln Riley

So out of all those schools with recent new coaches...Heupel and Lincoln RIley look very good. So you want to take a chance UK can lure a better coach than Stoops. You are taking a huge risk by even thinking about it.

I think the best road is to re-juggle offensive staff and truly pay immense dollars for an OC. We have had stable coaching and no firings to buy out. I think we'd be better off pony up huge bucks to get Stoops an offensive mind that is his weakness and see how that works out.

If we pay will Stoops take his headset off?

 

[Cefiro]

Stoops is the 16th highest paid coach in all of college football. Marrow is handsomely paid as well. When have we ever had that type of investment in the program? You don’t think with top 20 money we could land a good coach? I think we could.

Love how some of our fans cling on to Stoops because they don’t think we will EVER find a better coach

 

[AE82]

Love how some of our fans cling on to Stoops because they don’t think we will EVER find a better coach

It's battered wife syndrome.

 

[The-Hack]

Stoops is the 16th highest paid coach in all of college football. Marrow is handsomely paid as well. When have we ever had that type of investment in the program?

Jerry Claiborne was paid in Top 10 money of the day, when hired in 1982.

 

[AE82]

I love the simple statements "UK fans accept mediocrity is why UK is mediocre"....like it's a magical mindset change and a desire to fire coaches after poor results. So how did the mindset work for Nebraska football, Auburn football, heck even Tennessee football was in the much until maybe the least heralded hire of them all appears to be lightning in a bottle.

So go ahead and fire Stoops. If it's as simple as trying on shoes until one fits...go for it.

I do think it's entirely possible we've hit a ceiling with Stoops. His dependance on good offensive coordinators is a deficiency when you lose one. But it's not like UK has ever won bowl games like he has, finished ranked in the top 15 a few times like he has. Had dominance over solid but not great programs like USC, Mizzou, UL, etc...he literally owned them for long stretches. So while it's entirely possible to move past Stoops to better coach...history tells me it's more likely that we'll revert back down to a cellar SEC program which I'd be cautious with these arm chair fans mindsets.

We are mediocre because our fans accept it. It really is the desire of fans at good programs to move on after it becomes evident the HC isn't getting it done. And Stoops isn't. He has plateaued, and apprears to be regressing. Considering NB just fired Frost, I would assume we will have to wait and see, right? Auburn has had some success over the past decade because they were willing to make changes. You seem to be of this belief we expect a new coach to be immediately successful. I think 2 or 3 seasons is adequate to demonstrate a positive change. Stoops has had 10.

I wish we would go for it! Unfortunately, I am not the dumbass, spineless Mitch Barnhart that can make those moves.

We have won meaningless bowl games that teams with as few as 5 wins can make. That's nothing to brag about. It's essentially like making the CBI tournament.

We have finished in the top15 once. We have never had dominance over a solid program. SC sucked, MO sucked, UL sucked and Vandy sucked. Having to label them as solid to inflate those wins is embarrassing.

You've said yourself we have never been in this position before, particularly with the spending on FB we have done the last decade, the fan support and having a foundation, so why and how would history tell you will we revert with a new coach?

 

[rupp876]

The above post is very revealing .
“ ….. he has only been here 10 years , moron”
Kentucky fans, the rational ones, like I try to be
Would say to themselves that 10 years is long enough . Maybe so maybe not. Here is a lot of vitriol on here regarding stoops.
I have said for years that UK scheduling these cupcakes almost always gets them off to 4-1 or 5-0 many years.
Big intersectional games ( not Louisville) upgrades exposure to recruits in other areas of the country, and, of course, more entertainment when home and home games are scheduled. As I said, before name another big boy team in the SEC that would ever agreed to play at Akron.
Vanderbilt maybe.

What it reveals is you have no understanding of context. I was replying to the Tn fan who essentially pinned UK's record over the last 25 years on Stoop's. Please try to pay attention. 10 years is long enough for what? If your expectations when he took over 10 years ago was SEC titles and National playoff appearances then your were being unrealistic. This sense of entitlement and unrealistic demands borders on mental illness when you have people wanting Stoops fired "for not accomplishing anything here in 10 years". If he does get us to the playoff it will be like bb and the complaint will be anything short of the title is failure.

 

[K_TIME]

We are mediocre because our fans accept it. It really is the desire of fans at good programs to move on after it becomes evident the HC isn't getting it done. And Stoops isn't. He has plateaued, and apprears to be regressing. Considering NB just fired Frost, I would assume we will have to wait and see, right? Auburn has had some success over the past decade because they were willing to make changes. You seem to be of this belief we expect a new coach to be immediately successful. I think 2 or 3 seasons is adequate to demonstrate a positive change. Stoops has had 10.

I wish we would go for it! Unfortunately, I am not the dumbass, spineless Mitch Barnhart that can make those moves.

We have won meaningless bowl games that teams with as few as 5 wins can make. That's nothing to brag about. It's essentially like making the CBI tournament.

We have finished in the top15 once. We have never had dominance over a solid program. SC sucked, MO sucked, UL sucked and Vandy sucked. Having to label them as solid to inflate those wins is embarrassing.

You've said yourself we have never been in this position before, particularly with the spending on FB we have done the last decade, the fan support and having a foundation, so why and how would history tell you will we revert with a new coach?

1. Was UL sucking when Lamar was QB? Was Mizzou sucking under Gary Pinkel and back to back SEC champ games appearances? USC has been a decent program...they sure didn't suck under Spurrier. I never mentioned Vandy was good program. Has Florida sucked as we beat them 3 of the 5 meetings? I get that it would have been nice to snag a few more from a down Tenn program and losing to Ole Miss three in a row is frustrating and not being overly competitive with UGA feels like we're never getting over that hump, etc... but you act like it's all meaningless...which to many fans it's not been.

2. Meaningless bowl games.....2 Citrus bowls. And 5 win teams don't get into the bowls were going to lately. UK finished 12 in 2018 and 18th last year. Hardly worthless unless to childish temper tantrums like you.

Stoops is UK's all time winningest football coach.....coming off a top 20 finish last year and best recruiting class ever at UK. If you think it wise to fire him, then you'd be one of the worlds worst ADs. If the only good season is a national title according to expectations like you, then only LSU, Bama, UGA, Ohio St, Clemson would be coaches and programs worth keeping. All the rest, should be fired until they come up with magical genius to get them over the hump.

 

[Crankdatmustard]

We went to a bowl in 2010 and hired Stoops at the end of 2012. Is wasn't as bad as you suggest. However, we did spend the first 5 years under Stoops trying to get back to one.

TN was in shambles when they hired Heupel, they are contending for a playoff spot in year 2. The east has also been awful the last 7 years.

Kentucky had mac level talent when Stoops was hired. Go back and watch some of the hightlights from the first few years and visually just look at the type of talent we had on the field.

 

[rucker4]

As many of you have seen me say before on here as an Iowa graduate and season ticket holder, if you don't want Mark Stoops I'll gladly take him back at his alma mater. Appreciate what he's done there, appreciate he's a damn good coach, and appreciate the fact he will continue to have strong teams at UK.

 

[AE82]

1. Was UL sucking when Lamar was QB? Was Mizzou sucking under Gary Pinkel and back to back SEC champ games appearances? USC has been a decent program...they sure didn't suck under Spurrier. I never mentioned Vandy was good program. Has Florida sucked as we beat them 3 of the 5 meetings? I get that it would have been nice to snag a few more from a down Tenn program and losing to Ole Miss three in a row is frustrating and not being overly competitive with UGA feels like we're never getting over that hump, etc... but you act like it's all meaningless...which to many fans it's not been.

2. Meaningless bowl games.....2 Citrus bowls. And 5 win teams don't get into the bowls were going to lately. UK finished 12 in 2018 and 18th last year. Hardly worthless unless to childish temper tantrums like you.

Stoops is UK's all time winningest football coach.....coming off a top 20 finish last year and best recruiting class ever at UK. If you think it wise to fire him, then you'd be one of the worlds worst ADs. If the only good season is a national title according to expectations like you, then only LSU, Bama, UGA, Ohio St, Clemson would be coaches and programs worth keeping. All the rest, should be fired until they come up with magical genius to get them over the hump.

Yes! They were sucking. In 2015 they beat us and went to the Music City Bowl. In 2016, their best year with Lamar, we beat them and they made the Citrus Bowl. The following year they beat us again and made the TaxSlayer bowl! That's nothing to brag about.

We only beat MO once under Pinkel. It was his last season at MO and they went 5-7 overall and 1-7 in the conference. So, yea, again, not a solid argument, bud.

Yea, considering UF has been through 3 coaches in 5 years. They have been pretty bad, bud, particularly in the years we have beaten them.

The first time we beat USC with Spurrier was in 2014. They went 7-6 that season. We beat them again in 2015 when they went 3 -9 and Spurrier left. So, yea, they kind of sucked, bud,

If that means something to you, kudos! It makes me feel kind of sorry for you though. And I want you to have better!

Technically we were 18th in the AP to finish last year. Only 15th in the coaches poll.

By saying we could get a better coach with what we spend and in the conference we play in, I am throwing a tantrum? Sounds like you are taking this a bit personally, bud.

Citrus bowl, Music City, Belk are all meaningless bowls. They are equivalent to winning the NIT or CBI. Consolation prizes.

Stoops is the winningest simply because he has been here the longest. It's not because he has had some major success. he has only won 39% of his conference games for goodness' sake.

I don't think anyone claimed NC was the only thing worth playing for. Winning the SEC east would be nice, making the SEC championship, making the playoff, and/or getting to an NY6 bowl game. There are lots of things besides a NC that mean a lot. Unfortunately, we will never experience that with a coach like Stoops or fans like you!

If you set the emotions aside and follow the actual records and facts, you will see Stoops isn't what you think.

 

[jimmy cowboy]

Absolutely NOT!

 

[AE82]

Kentucky had mac level talent when Stoops was hired. Go back and watch some of the hightlights from the first few years and visually just look at the type of talent we had on the field.

Or we just had a coach in over his head.

 

[K_TIME]

Yes! They were sucking. In 2015 they beat us and went to the Music City Bowl. In 2016, their best year with Lamar, we beat them and they made the Citrus Bowl. The following year they beat us again and made the TaxSlayer bowl! That's nothing to brag about.

We only beat MO once under Pinkel. It was his last season at MO and they went 5-7 overall and 1-7 in the conference. So, yea, again, not a solid argument, bud.

Yea, considering UF has been through 3 coaches in 5 years. They have been pretty bad, bud, particularly in the years we have beaten them.

The first time we beat USC with Spurrier was in 2014. They went 7-6 that season. We beat them again in 2015 when they went 3 -9 and Spurrier left. So, yea, they kind of sucked, bud,

If that means something to you, kudos! It makes me feel kind of sorry for you though. And I want you to have better!

Technically we were 18th in the AP to finish last year. Only 15th in the coaches poll.

By saying we could get a better coach with what we spend and in the conference we play in, I am throwing a tantrum? Sounds like you are taking this a bit personally, bud.

Citrus bowl, Music City, Belk are all meaningless bowls. They are equivalent to winning the NIT or CBI. Consolation prizes.

Stoops is the winningest simply because he has been here the longest. It's not because he has had some major success. he has only won 39% of his conference games for goodness' sake.

I don't think anyone claimed NC was the only thing worth playing for. Win the SEC east, would be nice, make the SEC championship, make the playoff, and get to an NY6 bowl game. There are lots of things besides a NC that mean a lot. Unfortunately, we will never experience that with a coach like Stoops or fans like you!

If you set the emotions aside and follow the actual records and facts, you will see Stoops isn't what you think.

1. I'm not a "bud" to a-holes like you. So, you can keep your quips to childish rants that make you feel like a man.
2. So now the Lamar/UL win was really not that good when they lost barely to Clemson as their only loss...who just so happen to win BCS that year.
3. Do you ever go back into your arguments and think how many of these coaches/programs really started losing ground as UK was no longer a gimmie for them...and when they start losing to UK it gets them on hot seat?
4. You correlate any non BCS and NY6 bowl to being basically equivalent to NIT in basketball. Now there are what....68 teams in NCAA tourney..so the NIT is teams 68 and below. So if 12 teams are in NY6 and 4 teams in BCS...that is 16 teams. And the rest play in games like Citrus, Outback, etc... Which is not really close to equivalent to a 68 team tournament in basketball.

I get Stoops is falling short this year and it's frustrating. if you want to argue we need another direction, then that is your opinion. But trashing all that Stoops has accomplished than no other UK coach ever has is sort of silly.

 

[AE82]

1. I'm not a "bud" to a-holes like you. So, you can keep your quips to childish rants that make you feel like a man.
2. So now the Lamar/UL win was really not that good when they lost barely to Clemson as their only loss...who just so happen to win BCS that year.
3. Do you ever go back into your arguments and think how many of these coaches/programs really started losing ground as UK was no longer a gimmie for them...and when they start losing to UK it gets them on hot seat?
4. You correlate any non BCS and NY6 bowl to being basically equivalent to NIT in basketball. Now there are what....68 teams in NCAA tourney..so the NIT is teams 68 and below. So if 12 teams are in NY6 and 4 teams in BCS...that is 16 teams. And the rest play in games like Citrus, Outback, etc... Which is not really close to equivalent to a 68 team tournament in basketball.

I get Stoops is falling short this year and it's frustrating. if you want to argue we need another direction, then that is your opinion. But trashing all that Stoops has accomplished than no other UK coach ever has is sort of silly.

If you say so, bud!

Not really. That UL team lost 4 games, btw. LSU, Houston, UK and Clemson. That's not that good!

They get the hotseat because losing to UK has historically been an embarrassment. But I don't recall that alone ever being enough to get someone canned. They get canned because they suck.

Those really are equivalent to the NIT and CBI. They are consolation games for the lesser teams. Their whole purpose is to supplement the real bowls.

I am not trashing them. I am just being honest about them. In your current overly emotional state, that appears as trashing.

 

[Hoskins91]

The only way actual normal people even consider this is if we lose out, which isn’t happening. As someone who never bought into us being anything special this year, we aren’t bad, and 8-4 is still realistic. If that happens, most normal people would look at you like you’re crazy for even suggesting this.

 

[Hoskins91]

Plateaued at our recent 10 win seasons? Stoops accomplishments are nothing to scoff at for anyone with a firm grasp on reality. Two 10 win seasons with good but far from overwhelming rosters gives me every reason to believe he can take it a step further. If Stoops leaves the risk of returning to the Vandy neighborhood is more likely than winning east titles and becoming a playoff fixture.

He’s been here a decade…I’d say it’s fair to claim we’ve seen what we can reasonably expect his sustainable success is. Obviously we could have a year where everything goes right and we vault up a level for a season, but he’s not the guy making us into a real yearly contender.

Don’t know why you’re coming at me when I’m pushing back on the people saying “fire him now”.

 

[Hoskins91]

This thread is a good example of how the internet isn’t real life.

 

[Crankdatmustard]

Or we just had a coach in over his head.

Either you are 13 or do not understand college football or how it works.

 

[AE82]

Either you are 13 or do not understand college football or how it works.

Lol, okay, bud!

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Just have to find the right fit at OC, hire a special teams coach, and hold on to the DC. Mark Stoops is who we need to lead us to where we want to go, so long as he cleans up these issues.

 

[Hoskins91]

The op accusing other people of being emotional and reactionary is funny.

 

[Hoskins91]

Yes, I know how bad it can get, but that doesn’t deter from wanting to get better. Liberty Bowls aren’t cool anymore. You’re welcome to celebrate them, but I won’t.

We have been good for UK standards. We’ve had a few good seasons at a national level but nothing incredible. We haven’t played a NY6 bowl game. Going to the Liberty Bowl or Belk Bowl is mediocre at a national level. It’s good for where we used to be, but no one cares about that nationally.

There is nothing to suggest that Tennessee hasn’t clearly taken over the #2 spot in the East. We couldn’t even consistently beat them when they sucked, so it’s rational to think they’ll continue to beat us more often than not now that they have a coach that can win big games. That leaves us battling with Florida, USC and Missouri for 3rd in the East. I’m ok with taking a step back trying to move forward than hoping we go 8-4 and get 3rd in our division. If you’re fine with that, that’s cool. There’s a rational argument to be made there, but we need to stop touting we’re close to the big dogs because we aren’t.

Personally I’m not making rash judgements after one game in the middle of the season, but that’s just me.

 

[AE82]

The op accusing other people of being emotional and reactionary is funny.

Which part do you feel has been based on emotion?

 

[ck-2]

I’ve hoped for a couple of years a big football school would hire him. But that hasn’t happened for a reason. The weak SEC east he’s had the luxury of playing is over as are 10 win seasons.
He’s done too good of a job to be fired at KENTUCKY. Hopefully he leaves the next coach something to build on.

 

[bthaunert]

We went to a bowl in 2010 and hired Stoops at the end of 2012. Is wasn't as bad as you suggest. However, we did spend the first 5 years under Stoops trying to get back to one.

TN was in shambles when they hired Heupel, they are contending for a playoff spot in year 2. The east has also been awful the last 7 years.

In the 4 years prior to Stoop's arrival, UK's recruiting classes were ranked:

41st
50th
63rd
61st

There were 6 4 and 5 star recruits in those classes combined

In the 4 years prior to Heupel's arrival, UT's recruiting classes were ranked:

15th
20th
13th
8th

There were 36 4 and 5 star recruits in those classes combined.

That's a huge difference in what those guys took over and the ability to win sooner rather than later. It's inexcusable for Stoops to lose like he did on Saturday night, but he took over one of the worst rosters in Power 5. That takes time to turn around.

 

[AE82]

In the 4 years prior to Stoop's arrival, UK's recruiting classes were ranked:

41st
50th
63rd
61st

There were 6 4 and 5 star recruits in those classes combined

In the 4 years prior to Heupel's arrival, UT's recruiting classes were ranked:

15th
20th
13th
8th

There were 36 4 and 5 star recruits in those classes combined.

That's a huge difference in what those guys took over and the ability to win sooner rather than later. It's inexcusable for Stoops to lose like he did on Saturday night, but he took over one of the worst rosters in Power 5. That takes time to turn around.

Okay, so now give me a breakdown of how many of those guys stayed and weren't out during the coaching changes. I'll wait!

You do also realize you're saying that even while they were down and changing coaches, they were still able to out-recruit UK and Stoops, even with us being at the height of our success. Are you sure that's the argument you want to make?

 

[bthaunert]

Okay, so now give me a breakdown of how many of those guys stayed and weren't out during the coaching changes. I'll wait!

You do also realize you're saying that even while they were down and changing coaches, they were still able to out-recruit UK and Stoops, even with us being at the height of our success. Are you sure that's the argument you want to make?

According to the 247 transfer portal, it looks like 11 of the 36...that's what I could tell (correct me if I'm wrong). So, 25 of the 4 and 5 stars still left when he took over. Of the 6 that UK had, 3 of them transferred out. so, 25 against 3.

As for your 2nd point, I'm not arguing any of that. All I am saying is it's a hell of a lot easier to turn a program around quicker when you have much better players on your roster when you get there.

 

[Crankdatmustard]

According to the 247 transfer portal, it looks like 11 of the 36...that's what I could tell (correct me if I'm wrong). So, 25 of the 4 and 5 stars still left when he took over. Of the 6 that UK had, 3 of them transferred out. so, 25 against 3.

As for your 2nd point, I'm not arguing any of that. All I am saying is it's a hell of a lot easier to turn a program around quicker when you have much better players on your roster when you get there.

Not to mention recruiting to a traditional college football power.

Lair is turning into Rupp Rafters East.

 

[AE82]

According to the 247 transfer portal, it looks like 11 of the 36...that's what I could tell (correct me if I'm wrong). So, 25 of the 4 and 5 stars still left when he took over. Of the 6 that UK had, 3 of them transferred out. so, 25 against 3.

As for your 2nd point, I'm not arguing any of that. All I am saying is it's a hell of a lot easier to turn a program around quicker when you have much better players on your roster when you get there.

But this same talent you're touting wasn't doing shit before he got there. So what was the benefit? We are recruiting well and still suck, and our recruiting already wasn't good for next season (44th ranked currently). We likely are going to take a bigger hit there after this season. And don't be surprised if a lot of our 2022 class transfers out. Barion Brown and Dane Key aren't hanging around for an unproven, bullshit quarterback, nor to play for an awful OC. We already lost most of the 2020 class.

I just looked at UC's recruiting classes pre- Luke Fickell. They had unranked recruiting classes from 2013 - 2017 and he still got them to back-to-back conference titles and back-to-back playoff appearances. Recruiting isn't the end all be all if you know how to coach.

 

[bthaunert]

But this same talent you're touting wasn't doing shit before he got there. So what was the benefit? We are recruiting well and still suck, and our recruiting already wasn't good for next season (44th ranked currently). We likely are going to take a bigger hit there after this season. And don't be surprised if a lot of our 2022 class transfers out. Barion Brown and Dane Key aren't hanging around for an unproven, bullshit quarterback, nor to play for an awful OC. We already lost most of the 2020 class.

I just looked at UC's recruiting classes pre- Luke Fickell. They had unranked recruiting classes from 2013 - 2017 and he still got them to back-to-back conference titles and back-to-back playoff appearances. Recruiting isn't the end all be all if you know how to coach.

Some thoughts:

1. Heupel (and Fickell) are really good coaches. There are coaches out there that can win with lesser talent. There are also coaches out there that can't win regardless of their talent.

2. There is a strong correlation between recruiting success and on field success. There are outliers, just like in anything else, but generally speaking, there is a reason why Bama, UGA, OSU and Clemson have been mainstays in the CFP. Hell, even Ed Orgeron won a National Championship because he had talent.

3. What 4 star, besides Beau Allen, has transferred from that 2020 class or who has transferred from that class that has had success anywhere else?

4. We don't "still suck". We sucked this past weekend...bad. And that's unacceptable. Outside of the COVID year, we are 23-22 in the SEC over the past 7 seasons, including 5-3 last year. Do we need to make another step up in the program? yes. Do we suck? no