Exactly- we know a friend of my daughter who just graduated high school and is going into to college as a junior.
Zion's Classes at Duke this Semester
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Exactly- we know a friend of my daughter who just graduated high school and is going into to college as a junior.
College is simply a vehicle for being successful - you have to have discipline, a good work ethic, and a focused purpose and it will give you every opportunity you’ve ever dreamed of. But you dont just show up to college, unfocused, with a stupid major and bad work ethic and expect it to make you successful. There are plenty of people in their 50s and 60s in dead-end jobs that are in no position to retire that have college degrees from the 70s and 80s that didn’t serve them well for those reasons. This is nothing new. College is still the best option for the smart, driven, and focused.
I don’t think he was ragging on teachers, which is an amazing profession. I just think he was saying the requirements, time commitment, and competitiveness for obtaining a law or medical degree versus a teaching degree aren’t in the same ballpark (even though you seemed to be claiming they were), which I think is pretty obvious.
I think it’s telling that so many think it’s such a scam. College is too expensive, sure. There’s other factors at play, like guaranteed loans. Having to do basics before your major is not the problem and not why it’s a scam. The long term commitment of college is how the system weeds out the unworthy. It’s intended to be that way. If you can’t handle that, and if you can’t handle the rough and tumble of it, then you don’t get the privilege of being educated. It’s not something you can just wake up one day and decide you’ll go get it by noon. I’m glad it’s that way, the less that decide to do it because of it, the better.
As far as the strength of the degree, I personally don’t think it matters. One of the smartest men I know turned down a law degree to teach. He also had some kind of offer through a NASA program as well. He genuinely wanted to teach and he might be smarter than everyone in the thread.
To me it’s not about what degree is harder because it’s so subjective. I just leave the accomplishments where they are and wish everyone success in their field.
The salaries are definitely not in the same ballpark.
It was just a bit of a hyperbole to go along with his claim that teachers do nothing, retire at 45, and draw this amazing pension.
This is a pretty touchy subject considering the current political climate and is not for a basketball board. ABlockalypseBrow and I have laid it to rest, so let's move on.
Go to a trade school and make $60 an hour by 30.
Or go into the military and have them train you and make $130k a year working for Boeing (military is begging for UAV operators). He had a job offer before his enlistment was even up.
I know a guy who did each of those things, and neither has a college degree or student loan debt.
But, good luck to your kid on getting that masters.
I have a nephew that did exactly that. He enlisted in the army for six years to get the SATCOM school. He also got a great job with a six figure salary when his enlistment ended.
However, as far as advancement is concerned, there is a ceiling above which he cannot rise due to lack of a college degree. He has been told this by the company. He can never obtain a position where he supervises or directs people with a college degree.
Why does it matter what someone does for a career or a living? If you are happy doing what you are doing, who cares what type of education level they have. Some people might find it rewarding to be a carpenter or welder, others might not and would rather work on the Lunar Rover, which obviously requires an advanced degree.
You should be congratulating the young adult pursuing an advanced degree, not putting them down. Same goes for someone who decided to join the military, it should be celebrated. At the end of the day, our post-secondary education system (university system) is what made America the powerhouse we are today. The technologies that we live by and win wars with wouldn't have been invented without the people sitting in a research lab that no one has even heard of (think the Manhattan Project).
I’m glad you chose to be a bad ass because it allowed some of us to take another route. And I genuinely mean that, my father in law who passed several years ago from war time illness was a master sergeant and 30 something year marine. Sob could do anything he was amazing.
Having said that, very few military personnel make that kind of money without a college degree. As a matter of fact my father in law told me to avoid it all and finish college. He told me if I want to join to definitely finish college first and go to officer school.
So it’s different strokes for different folks. But the data is settled, college degrees make income rise substantially more than military personnel or anyone else in most cases. Hell I was shocked to see what a master sergeant in the marine corps makes. Very underpaid, which just shows again how dedicated military personnel are.
That’s not saying there aren’t avenues to take to make a lot of money from military experience, but not everyone can do that. Most won’t.
I also know a lot of guys who went to trade school and are broke. I know very few college grads personally having that problem.
Getting your HVAC certificate was all the rage when I was leaving high school around 2005. There’s so many of them in my area most are struggling unless they were good at business.
A lot of this depends on location, but the data is what it is. A college degree is still the best option for most people.
One day we'll all realize we should have listened to the Dirty Jobs guy..think about that...Mike Rowe had the answer all along.
Well put.
Those driven only by money and benefits will often end up in a job that they hate.
This is a very entertaining thread.
There are other factors that are pumping up cost besides bogus classes. Have you seen the dorms and "cafeterias" on UK's campus now? Granite countertops, ceiling fans, and restaurants in the dorms?
We were thrilled to have the Blazer Express and an unconditioned private sink when I went to UK. My cost then out of state, was $2500 per semester...affordable for an upper middle class kid from Illinois.
Commonwealth is a palace. The Student Center is a shrine. Want to go rock wall climbing at the Seaton Center? No problem.
There have been three different business school buildings in the last 31 years. That is just one college.
My cost now, out of state would be $14500 per semester...completely unaffordable for anyone within a couple standard deviations of the upper middle class.
All of these unnecessary amenities are ridiculous and killing the kids.
On another note:
One of my best friends' daughter just graduated with a masters in Accounting. Straight A's through undergrad and graduate school. She passed her CPA on the first attempt. She has to live with her parent's for the next 10 years to pay off nearly $80K in student debt. I want to say her school loan payment is $1200 per month. Beautiful girl who is getting turned down for dates because she has too much baggage (ie. debt)
She cant afford to invest in the most important decade of her life. She won't be able to afford to buy a starter home until she is in her 30's. When is the right time to think about starting a family...IF she can find someone who doesn't care about the balance sheet?
The kid did everything she was raised to do and this was the end result.
I mean it probably isn't that dire...but it's pretty close. I wouldn't trade places with this generation for the world.
They got screwed.
There are other factors that are pumping up cost besides bogus classes. Have you seen the dorms and "cafeterias" on UK's campus now? Granite countertops, ceiling fans, and restaurants in the dorms?
We were thrilled to have the Blazer Express and an unconditioned private sink when I went to UK. My cost then out of state, was $2500 per semester...affordable for an upper middle class kid from Illinois.
Commonwealth is a palace. The Student Center is a shrine. Want to go rock wall climbing at the Seaton Center? No problem.
There have been three different business school buildings in the last 31 years. That is just one college.
My cost now, out of state would be $14500 per semester...completely unaffordable for anyone within a couple standard deviations of the upper middle class.
All of these unnecessary amenities are ridiculous and killing the kids.
On another note:
One of my best friends' daughter just graduated with a masters in Accounting. Straight A's through undergrad and graduate school. She passed her CPA on the first attempt. She has to live with her parent's for the next 10 years to pay off nearly $80K in student debt. I want to say her school loan payment is $1200 per month. Beautiful girl who is getting turned down for dates because she has too much baggage (ie. debt)
She cant afford to invest in the most important decade of her life. She won't be able to afford to buy a starter home until she is in her 30's. When is the right time to think about starting a family...IF she can find someone who doesn't care about the balance sheet?
The kid did everything she was raised to do and this was the end result.
I mean it probably isn't that dire...but it's pretty close. I wouldn't trade places with this generation for the world.
They got screwed.
I understand what you’re saying. My generation is getting screwed but we still have options.
I chose to go to community college and owe nothing on it. I have two associates degrees, free.
I then worked full time and graduated from Memphis. I owe nothing on my bachelors.
OOS tuition is ridiculous, and if you can’t afford it, don’t do it. Her 80K is really her problem, and I don’t mean to be a dick. I really do feel bad for those, but it’s still possible to get through school with no student debt because I did it. And then I came to find out that many employers like students with community college degrees ( I thought it would hurt me). Not even close. I’m now working toward my masters in another field entirely and paying for my second bachelors. It’s possible. It’s just not easy. I will owe on my masters for sure, however.
Parents need to quit pushing expensive colleges on kids. That’s part of the problem.
Our little darlings can no longer go anywhere they want as long as their grades are superb. It doesn’t work that way anymore.
There’s too much bitching and whining about this issue imo. College is too high, but again, the challenge of seeing everything through means more now than ever.
The biggest problem is older people and parents advising kids and applying logic from 1970. And my generation needs to accept that it’s not going to be fair or easy and make better decisions. There’s nothing wrong with community college for two years. And it’s free. But my generation wants everything easy and everything cookie cutter, easy pay, best school, university straight out the gate....
I totally agree that the colleges are building too much too fast and they don’t need it.
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First one sounds like a U6 course. Dook has a history of sexual disfunction though. The LaCrosse team that have hire a dancer to score. The power point floozy. And lastly the porn queen. Combined which that pork chop coed group, sex Ed May be essential
yep, every airman and every Votech guy out there is making over 100k.
it's true...go check the stats
edit: not belittling either the services or votech...but you are using a broad brush for 2 examples
She was going the JUCO route for the first two years, but she was miserable after the first semester. All of her friends had gone away to college, and she was stuck at home. I am sure there was some peer pressure involved. She then made a terrible mistake and went out of state for a year or two. She then returned to finish her bachelors and masters at a local private college.
I really admire what you have done. You seem to have a had a plan the whole way and have executed it masterfully. I don't think others have the will power and discipline to pull it off, as was the case with my buddy's daughter.
With my kids, I tried to pound into their heads that they were going to college no matter what. I figured It worked for me...even though I was in no frame of mind to be in college. I am sure my degree has benefited me to some extent, but it is not required for my chosen field.
Turns out, even though they were financially prepared to go to college...neither kid was interested. The numbers say they are going to have a much more difficult go of it without a degree...but I seemed to do OK without one pertaining to my career.
I went to college, got my degree, and do very well for myself and my family in a career that I wouldn’t be qualified for without my degree.
Everyone has their own path. College is very much worthwhile for a lot of people.
^^^ Think you might be a bit dramatic about the beautiful girl who can’t get dates and live her life as an accountant with 80k student loans. Federal student loans can be stretched out to 30 years and they have income based repayment which is a small percentage of your annual income, and if you fall under a certain income threshold or work in a needed area there is debt forgiveness in under 10 years. Me and my wife graduated with a student debt load that few people can even fathom, but it’s been just fine. If you have a steady well paying job (like an accountant) 80k will not inhibit your life and will be well worth it after working for thirty years making whatever an accountant makes ( 80-100k ? )
Due to the profession I am in I have witnessed first hand dr's, dentist, PT's, etc that have 350-400K in student loan debt. That is just insane in my opinion.
Possibly.
I did state that it might not be as dire as I was letting on.
However, I doubt an accountant fresh out of school is going to be pulling $80-100K. I could be wrong, though. I feel for anyone that essentially has a mortgage payment to make coming right out of the gate. Forgive me if this is too personal...but have you and your wife been able to buy a home?
My wife has a masters degree and had to pay back about 10-15K in student loans. I on the other hand didn't attend college, had zero student loans, make more than she does and have a less stressful job. I don't bring it up very often though as it just seems to enrage her for some reason.
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We have a home and little ones, we’re also very fortunate to be in the professions we’re in so we’re probably not the greatest example. I agree with you about a kid with an art history BA graduating with 100k debt and being a server at a restaurant out of school is screwed, but I feel a good stable profession like an accountant will be fine. But I agree that at some point the bubble will pop and the ridiculously rising cost of tuition needs to be corralled.
We all choose our own paths an
That's ridiculous, but not surprising these days.
I am thankful that I was able to get through my undergrad degree without any student loans. I worked and lived at home and paid my tuition. I earned good grades and got some scholarship money. My mom and dad bought my books for me for my birthday (August) and Christmas.
It helped that tuition was less than a 1,000 dollars a semester back then. I worked as a paraprofessional (coaching junior pro basketball) and made just enough every semester to pay my tuition. Simpler times, I guess. Mom's home cooking beat college food as well and I didn't party, so I really didn't miss the whole living on campus experience.
I doubt my son will be able to do that, but I am going to do everything I can to help him get through without a huge amount of loans. That's why when I retire from teaching, I am looking into a second career.
Still, I am strangely encouraged by some of your comments. I know that everyone struggles at some point in their lives and he is going to make it through just like the rest of us with God's blessings.
The girl mentioned above is struggling now, but I bet things turn around for her when all is said and done. She is lucky in a way to have good parents willing to take her in. Some kids in the same predicament are dealing with that on top of paying rent and utilities and groceries.
I guess, in the end, we all have our own paths and struggles in life. A crap ton of student loans pails in comparison to having to fight cancer or drug addiction.
Always look on the bright side.
My nephew is 19 and works at Subway when he can. He has had 20 something surgeries since he was born, has had his entire colon removed, has a gastric pacemaker, is in and out of the hospital, and lives with chronic stomach pain. He will likely never be able to live on his own.
He would have gladly taken out a 400K loan to keep his colon and not have to live in pain all the time.
But I probably said too much. I will likely be chastised for it, but I said what was on my heart.
God bless you all.
That's ridiculous, but not surprising these days.
I am thankful that I was able to get through my undergrad degree without any student loans. I worked and lived at home and paid my tuition. I earned good grades and got some scholarship money. My mom and dad bought my books for me for my birthday (August) and Christmas.
It helped that tuition was less than a 1,000 dollars a semester back then. I worked as a paraprofessional (coaching junior pro basketball) and made just enough every semester to pay my tuition. Simpler times, I guess. Mom's home cooking beat college food as well and I didn't party, so I really didn't miss the whole living on campus experience.
I doubt my son will be able to do that, but I am going to do everything I can to help him get through without a huge amount of loans. That's why when I retire from teaching, I am looking into a second career.
Still, I am strangely encouraged by some of your comments. I know that everyone struggles at some point in their lives and he is going to make it through just like the rest of us with God's blessings.
The girl mentioned above is struggling now, but I bet things turn around for her when all is said and done. She is lucky in a way to have good parents willing to take her in. Some kids in the same predicament are dealing with that on top of paying rent and utilities and groceries.
I guess, in the end, we all have our own paths and struggles in life. A crap ton of student loans pails in comparison to having to fight cancer or drug addiction.
Always look on the bright side.
My nephew is 19 and works at Subway when he can. He has had 20 something surgeries since he was born, has had his entire colon removed, has a gastric pacemaker, is in and out of the hospital, and lives with chronic stomach pain. He will likely never be able to live on his own.
He would have gladly taken out a 400K loan to keep his colon and not have to live in pain all the time.
But I probably said too much. I will likely be chastised for it, but I said what was on my heart.
God bless you all.
Trade fields would be an excellent option due to ongoing Baby Boomer retirement, but many of these manual labor and/or basic trades will be replaced by robotics and technology in the next 15-20 years....or less. I'm in a field that exposes me to this technology daily...it is a reality people.
We are all in for some major changes in the near future...bigger than the dawn of the Internet in terms of how the world changed.
Not sure what to do on student debt but if I was advising a young person going into to school today I'd say to pick something that will provide you with broad options or a specialty in medical field. Develop people skills as those will be hard to ever replace ultimately.
We are all in for some major changes in the near future...bigger than the dawn of the Internet in terms of how the world changed.
Not sure what to do on student debt but if I was advising a young person going into to school today I'd say to pick something that will provide you with broad options or a specialty in medical field. Develop people skills as those will be hard to ever replace ultimately.
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If I were just starting my career it would be as a real estate appraiser. Very low overhead, you can be your own boss and they make pretty good money. Up until 2015 you didn't have to have a college degree but that changed and now at least a Bachelors is required which is ridiculous. Prior to 2015 you could take the needed appraisal classes, log the appropriate number of hours completing appraisals under a supervisors watch and then get licensed.
I’d tell her she has an accomplishment most simply don’t have, keep working at it, and it’ll work out.
I understand being young and wanting to go off to school. After dropping out of high school my options were limited toward a university so I didn’t really have a choice.
Looking back the best thing I ever did was go Juco. For one thing it’s free. For another I obtained 2 associates degrees when my friends at UM or UT couldn’t do that. Essentially, I had college Degrees they didn’t have. Also, my grades were essentially locked in. I’ve got a friend who didn’t finish Morehead and lost a ton of his credits because he didn’t finish his BA. I will never have those problems.
I BEGGED my girlfriends cousin to go to JUCO for a few years and then leave. She was dead set on LSU and she made it two semesters and is now a CNA with student debt and can’t go back.
The biggest problem with college today is Boomers advising younger generations on college. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.
I mentor kids at a juvenile detention center and the ones prepared for college always get the same message from me.
1. Don’t do anything for money (the opposite of what boomers told me)
2. Get your associates degree first. (Opposite of what my boomer parents wanted. They thought it was a joke and didn’t even understand an associates degree)
3. Do not even flirt with the idea of OOS tuition.
The biggest problem my parents generation has is their belief that good grades and smart kids should go wherever they want. Not true. Not today.
Just because you can go to Harvard doesn’t mean you can, essentially.
My dream was to get a degree from UK. I had to pass it up, OOS tuition was not going to happen.
At some point people my age and younger have to be smarter than just making A’s. The real world doesn’t care that you had a 4.2 out of high school. Make better financial decisions at 19 and don’t worry about what your friends are doing. Half of them won’t make it anyway.
Good luck to her I guarantee it will work out. Someone as dedicated as her won’t be shut out of opportunities. JUST MAKE BETTER FINANCIAL DECISIONS FROM THIS POINT ON!!!!!!!!!
Long rant, but the college thing really bothers me as someone who was able to work and pay for it all. My generation simply does not want to work for it and be creative. I’ve seen it so many times.
And the ones that make dumb choices and drop out STILL laugh at my associates degrees. Lol.
Ftr, I received a bachelors level Psych Tech job after my associates degree, lol. 16 an hour to hand out pills. I was ecstatic. So I essentially started making income off of my associates degree immediately which was free to begin with.
Point is, when I hear “free college” it’s too expensive it cannot he done, I just smh. It was hard so I did it hard and I sleep great.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
so playing baseball for Memphis was just another one of your lies lmfao ? bro for real keep your stories straight
I would think those classes only exist for the poorer student athletes. Just to keep them eligible
History of hip-hop? Wtf? That will really prepare kids for the real world. Smh.
The other classes were equally worthless. Duke? A "top" school? What an fing joke...
The other classes were equally worthless. Duke? A "top" school? What an fing joke...
A majority of schools have classes like this. A quick glance shows a few courses at UK:
Taco Literacy: Public Advocacy and Mexican Food in the US South
Introduction to Floral Design
Great Movies
Cool, I have a grandson there, can he get a degree with those classes, he loves Mexican food.
Got my first 2 years done in a community college, majored in chemistry and minored in biology and history after finishing college.
I ended up teaching chemistry at a community college.
One of my students had gone to Baylor ? on a soccer scholarship. She transferred to Chapel Hill but was told she could not take pre med courses her first year as it would take away too much time away from her soccer ( this was during Matt Doherty 20 game loss season) and women’s soccer was big.
Instead of going to Chapel Hill she ended up transferring to Vanderbilt, which allowed her to take pre med courses her first year there.
I ended up teaching chemistry at a community college.
One of my students had gone to Baylor ? on a soccer scholarship. She transferred to Chapel Hill but was told she could not take pre med courses her first year as it would take away too much time away from her soccer ( this was during Matt Doherty 20 game loss season) and women’s soccer was big.
Instead of going to Chapel Hill she ended up transferring to Vanderbilt, which allowed her to take pre med courses her first year there.
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He must be very proud of his accomplishments in the class room ,or were these UNCheat type classes ?
When I went to UK I took classes that would go toward a degree. Like basic math and english to set me up for the next level of these courses. There was no time to waste on meaningless classes if you was serious about getting a degree. Do the people that help freshmen pick classes toward a degree not exist anymore?
