What do we (UK fans) want? I think the answer is some combination of:
- Championships! We have 8 but still trail UCLA by 3 and UNC only trails us by 2 and Duke trails by 3, our last was 11 seasons ago, we've had just 1 in the past 23 tournaments.
- Final Fours. We've done better there, with 4 under Cal in past 11 tournaments but none in past 6.
- relevance! With the NCAA-T being a OAD tournament, there is luck involved and being "hot" at the right time. But you want to be one of the handful (6, 8, 10, 12) teams with a legit chance to cut down the nets in April. Cal has maintained that pretty well being one of those teams every year except 13, 16, 18 & 21.
But back to Final Fours (title of the thread).
- Coach K has more than any other coach (13), yet over the last half of his career at Duke, he had gaps of 6 years, 5 years, then 6 years (not counting Covid year) between Final Four appearances. And as great of a coach as K was, there was some cheating going on (Maggette, Thomas, Zion, and you know that wasn't all)
- Wooden had the 2nd most (12), making all 12 in a 14 year window. Yet he coached UCLA 28 seasons, so he had 0 the other 1/2 of his tenure at UCLA. And we all know about the Walton quote about having to take a paycut leaving UCLA to the NBA.
- Dean Smith had 11, but it was his 7th before he finally won the trophy. Then it was 9 years before he made another Final Four, and finishing with 4 more (including a title) over 7 years. Although we now know he had to offer FAKE CLASSES to achieve this.
- Roy Williams has 9, with 3-5 of those also benefiting from the FAKE CLASSES that Smith started. But Roy also had a 7 year gap between Final Fours.
- Izzo has 8, with his biggest gap being 5 years, and a couple of 4 year gaps
- then you start having multiple guys with 7, 6, or 5, including (in order) Pitino, Rupp, Calipari, Crum, Boeheim, Knight, Lewis, & Olson, and then several with 4.
- in the modern era, since say 1970, there have been 21 coaches who made 3+ Final Fours over a 9 year span, but to have much success beyond that has proven tough for many.
Conclusions:
- Not just Titles, but even Final Fours are hard to come by consistently
- The top 4 in Final Fours had to utilize some level of cheating to reach the pinnacle.
- There may be something to be said for "catching lightning in a bottle" when it comes to coaches, and then moving on to the next one.
- Championships! We have 8 but still trail UCLA by 3 and UNC only trails us by 2 and Duke trails by 3, our last was 11 seasons ago, we've had just 1 in the past 23 tournaments.
- Final Fours. We've done better there, with 4 under Cal in past 11 tournaments but none in past 6.
- relevance! With the NCAA-T being a OAD tournament, there is luck involved and being "hot" at the right time. But you want to be one of the handful (6, 8, 10, 12) teams with a legit chance to cut down the nets in April. Cal has maintained that pretty well being one of those teams every year except 13, 16, 18 & 21.
But back to Final Fours (title of the thread).
- Coach K has more than any other coach (13), yet over the last half of his career at Duke, he had gaps of 6 years, 5 years, then 6 years (not counting Covid year) between Final Four appearances. And as great of a coach as K was, there was some cheating going on (Maggette, Thomas, Zion, and you know that wasn't all)
- Wooden had the 2nd most (12), making all 12 in a 14 year window. Yet he coached UCLA 28 seasons, so he had 0 the other 1/2 of his tenure at UCLA. And we all know about the Walton quote about having to take a paycut leaving UCLA to the NBA.
- Dean Smith had 11, but it was his 7th before he finally won the trophy. Then it was 9 years before he made another Final Four, and finishing with 4 more (including a title) over 7 years. Although we now know he had to offer FAKE CLASSES to achieve this.
- Roy Williams has 9, with 3-5 of those also benefiting from the FAKE CLASSES that Smith started. But Roy also had a 7 year gap between Final Fours.
- Izzo has 8, with his biggest gap being 5 years, and a couple of 4 year gaps
- then you start having multiple guys with 7, 6, or 5, including (in order) Pitino, Rupp, Calipari, Crum, Boeheim, Knight, Lewis, & Olson, and then several with 4.
- in the modern era, since say 1970, there have been 21 coaches who made 3+ Final Fours over a 9 year span, but to have much success beyond that has proven tough for many.
Conclusions:
- Not just Titles, but even Final Fours are hard to come by consistently
- The top 4 in Final Fours had to utilize some level of cheating to reach the pinnacle.
- There may be something to be said for "catching lightning in a bottle" when it comes to coaches, and then moving on to the next one.
