Will we finally have a good defense this year?
- Thread starter screwduke1
- Start date
Define good.
Not being a jerk, but that definition/expectation my vary so much among fans that I think you may want to be more specific.
Improved to the point of being respectable/competitive may be a better expectation.
2016
Rush defense: 228 ypg, National Rank = 110
Pass defense: 206 ypg, National Rank = 35
Total defense: 440 ypg, National Rank = 88
Scoring defense: 31.3 ppg, National Rank = 87
2015
Rush defense: 196 ypg, National Rank = 98
Pass defense: 198 ypg, National Rank = 31
Total defense: 394 ypg, National Rank = 63
Scoring defense: 27.4 ppg, National Rank = 98
2008 (best year I remember since becoming a fan - Jarmon's last year)
Rush defense: 142 ypg, National Rank = 62
Pass defense: 184 ypg, National Rank = 29
Total defense: 327 ypg, National Rank = 37
Scoring defense: 21.7 ppg, National Rank = 40
As much as I would love to see an absolutely dominant BAMA-like defense, I would be pleased if the defense can get halfway to that 2008 team...
60ish rush defense,
35ish Pass def,
25ish ppg (that would've been about 45ish in 2016)
2016
Rush defense: 228 ypg, National Rank = 110
Pass defense: 206 ypg, National Rank = 35
Total defense: 440 ypg, National Rank = 88
Scoring defense: 31.3 ppg, National Rank = 87
2015
Rush defense: 196 ypg, National Rank = 98
Pass defense: 198 ypg, National Rank = 31
Total defense: 394 ypg, National Rank = 63
Scoring defense: 27.4 ppg, National Rank = 98
2008 (best year I remember since becoming a fan - Jarmon's last year)
Rush defense: 142 ypg, National Rank = 62
Pass defense: 184 ypg, National Rank = 29
Total defense: 327 ypg, National Rank = 37
Scoring defense: 21.7 ppg, National Rank = 40
As much as I would love to see an absolutely dominant BAMA-like defense, I would be pleased if the defense can get halfway to that 2008 team...
60ish rush defense,
35ish Pass def,
25ish ppg (that would've been about 45ish in 2016)
No way of knowing. The line may finally prove to be the unit we've needed for years, and linebacker as well as secondary could very well be a strength based on what we've seen and heard.
My definition of a good defense is something that prevents an opponent's runners from having their way with us while not sacrificing our secondary capabilities.
...
Looking at you, DLine and Linebackers.
My definition of a good defense is something that prevents an opponent's runners from having their way with us while not sacrificing our secondary capabilities.
...
Looking at you, DLine and Linebackers.
I don't expect to jump into the nation's elite, but I do expect a LOT of improvement. And we have plenty of room to improve.
Based on the returning players and what we have seen from some of the redshirts and younger players that will add talent and depth, plus upgrades to the defensive brain trust, I think its fair to say we will be a better defense then last year, how much better is yet to be determined. I'm hoping we can shave 7 points per game off of our points allowed number. If we do that I think we can reach 8 wins and maybe more.
I just want to consistently get off the field when it's 3rd and 5/6 or more.
MUCH more concerned with the offense stepping it up another notch...that is the key.
It will be virtually impossible to be any worse than last year due to everyone we return.
We don't even need a "good" defense. Just average to above average.
We don't even need a "good" defense. Just average to above average.
I think mindsets like this are the problem...you can't just outscore everybody. At times you need to be able to win a 17-14 football game with defense and field position.
To end last years in 80's in scoring defense feels like is substantiates what I saw which was a well below average defense.
1. I think we'll be fine pass rush unit with Ware, Allen, Boogie, Kenegra and Middleton up front. I like Baity as our best CB and sort of "meh" on Westry on the other side. I am hoping Edwards can improve upon a solid campaign and West takes it up a notch over McWilson/McClain at other safety.
2. Run defense is the biggest concern for me. I still watch Love play and see him hardly ever make plays while teams run right at us for long stretches of games. Jordan is team MVP IMO at other inside LBer spot. It then comes down to will Pringle, Carter, Looney, Elam, Middleton, etc.. hold up at LOS. Ware/Allen were shaky vs the run last years. We were just awful at DL last year no matter how you slice it. And if you're really bad at the LOS on defense...you can't win games with DBs, Lbers, safeties, etc... You just simply can't hide bad DL play.
3. The biggest promise is coaching/strategy this year vs. last year.. I never saw much at all from DJ Elliott and I'm still not sold on 3-4 defense.. Will Matt House, Dean Hood and Leblanc get more out of our talent level than previous staff did and can they coach up the 3-4 scheme. I'd have more confidence if we'd have gone out for a proven DC...but Stoops knows House and he knows defense...so I'm willing to see what that change on side of ball will bear fruit for UK.
I think it will depend on the big uglies up front, if they can get pressure or allow the LBers to shoot the gaps before the runners are in the secondary that would help. I think our Ends are solid, I like our new linebackers, they are active and our secondary is set with experienced players. Like some said we might not have to be good but if the front shows improvement I think we could be good.
Let's look at the two deep.
DE- TJ Carter/Kengera Daniel (Alvonte Bell will start if healthy)
NG- Naquez Pringle/Matt Elam
DT- Adrian Middleton/Kordell Looney
Jack- Denzil Ware/Boogie Watson
SLB- Josh Allen/Jordan Bonner
MLB- Courtney Love/Kash Daniel
WLB- Jordan Jones/Eli Brown
Nick- Kendall Randolph/Jordan Griffin
CB- Derrick Baity/Lonnie Johnson
SS- Mike Edwards/Tobias Gilliam
FS- Darius West/Davonte Robinson
CB- Chris Westry/ZyAire Hughes
We only replace Miggins, McClain and McWilson. Carter should give us more than Miggins, Randolph is more talented than McClain and West, if healthy, is a star. So we could possibly be improved at every spot on defense.
DE- TJ Carter/Kengera Daniel (Alvonte Bell will start if healthy)
NG- Naquez Pringle/Matt Elam
DT- Adrian Middleton/Kordell Looney
Jack- Denzil Ware/Boogie Watson
SLB- Josh Allen/Jordan Bonner
MLB- Courtney Love/Kash Daniel
WLB- Jordan Jones/Eli Brown
Nick- Kendall Randolph/Jordan Griffin
CB- Derrick Baity/Lonnie Johnson
SS- Mike Edwards/Tobias Gilliam
FS- Darius West/Davonte Robinson
CB- Chris Westry/ZyAire Hughes
We only replace Miggins, McClain and McWilson. Carter should give us more than Miggins, Randolph is more talented than McClain and West, if healthy, is a star. So we could possibly be improved at every spot on defense.
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A Bama like defense only comes when you get Bama like players
The only weakness i see is MLB and NG. Weare solid. Not top SEC solid but thats a good group there.
It all depends on dline. You need 6 guys in those 3 inside spots who are legit college players. I think right now we have 4 guys who will be good. Middleton Pringle Looney Carter.
Mind sets like mine are not the problem...it's the guys who think college football is still three yards and a cloud of dust. Give me an offense scoring 30+ppg and I'll show you an 8+ winning team every year...ask Les Miles
In games in 2016 where we did not score 30+ we were 2-5...when we did 5-1. Check Clemson & Ala scoring .
Don't get me wrong I want to see us have a defense that can get off the field, but it is offense that wins in college football today.
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Well, that is one way to look at it, but a negative one.
Did you see my post above: "I don't expect to jump into the nation's elite, but I do expect a LOT of improvement. And we have plenty of room to improve." I don't think anyone on here expect to be Bama good, just a lot better than last year.
What makes what I said negative? The only thing you can say is that's a fact. That goes for every other team, not just UK. You want a team like Ohio st has? Recruit like them. You want a team like FSU? You gotta recruit the kids they get to get you the success they have. You're making this very personal.
I agree scoring is up across college football the past decade with no huddle offense, more snaps, etc...but the teams who stop people still heavily take all the playoff spots.
- Alabama led nation in scoring defense, Ohio St was 3rd and Washington 8th...Clemson was 10th
- In 2015 Alabama was 6th, Clemson 3rd, Michigan St 22nd and the only way off was Oklahoma scored their way in at 55th ranked defense (and that was a highly controversial pick that Oklahoma made it in in the first place over Ohio St)
In the end defense ranking tend to way more highly correlate to who wins titles, placement in a conference and that is especially true in an athlete dominate conference like SEC. And UK has to play way better defense under Stoops if we hope to go forward and get past UGA, UT and stay ahead of Mizzou/USC.
That's true but we've got a top 30-35 roster now based on recruiting rankings so hopefully our defense finishes somewhere in this range. That is reasonable.
Because we are not Alabama, fixing our field position game -- kicking, punting, turnovers -- becomes even more critical for our defense. Being able to flip the field and pin teams deep doesn't assure defensive success, but it sure improves the odds.
The offense and defense often lives symbiotically. If our defense were to improve the likelihood of the offense scoring >30 goes up. There's no reason to be ranked in the 80's on a regular basis on either side of the ball once we get the personnel aligned.
As far as the scheme: it's a long held belief my many UK fan that we can't run the 3-4 because we'll never get the players. This is hogwash. Second, many don't understand the pros/cons of a 3-4 vs other defenses. These days, teams are throwing and spreading the ball more than ever. The 3-4 looks to take out a big ugly and add a speedier LB. By design this means you sacrifice a little rush defense for more flexibility and pass coverage. Third, no one (including us) runs a base defense anyway. We lined up with 4 guys on the LOS a lot last yr.......and we also ran nickel a lot. So if there's a problem with "scheme" it's not due to the 3-4 but probably from some other means.
As far as the scheme: it's a long held belief my many UK fan that we can't run the 3-4 because we'll never get the players. This is hogwash. Second, many don't understand the pros/cons of a 3-4 vs other defenses. These days, teams are throwing and spreading the ball more than ever. The 3-4 looks to take out a big ugly and add a speedier LB. By design this means you sacrifice a little rush defense for more flexibility and pass coverage. Third, no one (including us) runs a base defense anyway. We lined up with 4 guys on the LOS a lot last yr.......and we also ran nickel a lot. So if there's a problem with "scheme" it's not due to the 3-4 but probably from some other means.
This is true. If you look at the teams that won each division of the SEC you can't find a team that doesn't have at least a top 25 defense - most higher. Same is true in pro football the teams that make it deep into the play offs are almost always the teams with really good defenses.
Pretty simple really...if UK can improve the run D and force more turnovers the chances of winning more games is greatly enhanced. That and replacing about 2000 yards of departed O are the keys to the season.
If you don't have a defensive line you're going to suck. Just a matter of how much.
A little more subtle, maybe once you get so mired up in negativity you don't even recognize it yourself.
Kudos to you, much better than predicting FOUR wins.
Returning 9/11 starters from a D that was 88th in total DEF. Bringing some great players off redshirts, have a couple impact recruits, and a player or two back from injury last year.
I'm not sure we will ba 2008 good, but somewhere around 50th overall in total DEF would be AWESOME to see and give us a chance to win nearly every game on our schedule, IMO.
I'm not sure we will ba 2008 good, but somewhere around 50th overall in total DEF would be AWESOME to see and give us a chance to win nearly every game on our schedule, IMO.
What was the score in the NC game again? 85 pts combined for the two defensive minded teams...
But again, im not trolling and being negative because i want us to win. Il never root against UK....EVER! Its just my opinion with how this year schedule is. Great teams at home minus UGA, teams we haven't beaten in 30 years minus 1 year for UT , and good teams in UGA and missippi st away that is just not favorable. Then we have teams now at there home that we juuust barely beat at our home and then UL. Im not making a prediction with UL because in rivalries, ANYTHING can happen just like last year. I hope we improve to 8 wins this year, and maybe we do. And if we do il be in tears with joy. Thats why its just my opinion, and im not trying to be negative.
Using your logic why La Tech, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Louisville in playoffs?
I noticed during the BW game that the Dline was playing on the ball at the line of scrimmage. I liked that because it gave our Dlinemen a chance to get into the Olinemen faster. Last year I thought we played too far off the line of scrimmage and allowed the Oline to get an advantage on our defense.
With improved experience, depth and talent we *should* be a top 35, top 40 defense this year. I'm expecting big things from the defense. Pieces are there...depends on maturation of dline though. If it is significantly better, our defense becomes fun to watch.
I think our defense will be improved as well. I'm not thinking top 35-40 like you are but improved.
One question that needs to be answered: to what level will Stoops have influence on the defense? House has 3 yrs of DC experience and did fairly well at Pitt and FIU, but will it be all House? All Stoops? Or what mixture?
Folks, the old FB adage "Games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage." is, generally speaking, just as true today as it has been since inception of the game.
IMHO, we saw proof of that last year as our offense (and not coincidently our overall record) was improved primarily because of significant improvement in our offensive line. Better scheme, Benny Snell, and Stephen Johnson certainly helped, but the OL was the principal difference-maker.
On the other hand, despite added overall experience and depth our defense actually regressed last year vs the prior year, IMHO, principally because of poor to fair performance of the DL resulting from inferior talent and lack of depth.
Unfortunately, until we see significant improvement in talent and depth on the DL we will be hard pressed to win close games against good teams. Outscoring the opposition is really, really hard unless your defense can get stops at key points in a tight game.
IMHO, we saw proof of that last year as our offense (and not coincidently our overall record) was improved primarily because of significant improvement in our offensive line. Better scheme, Benny Snell, and Stephen Johnson certainly helped, but the OL was the principal difference-maker.
On the other hand, despite added overall experience and depth our defense actually regressed last year vs the prior year, IMHO, principally because of poor to fair performance of the DL resulting from inferior talent and lack of depth.
Unfortunately, until we see significant improvement in talent and depth on the DL we will be hard pressed to win close games against good teams. Outscoring the opposition is really, really hard unless your defense can get stops at key points in a tight game.
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That 2008 "D" is a fair benchmark, though I prefer seeing us top 1/3 in rushing D and passing D, top 1/4 in total D and scoring D. That could yield something special if we achieve it playing our schedule.
