I agree with this.
If good form was the deciding factor, Lonzo Ball would have shot 0% last year for sure.
What I've heard over the last week (COACH)...
- Thread starter CoachX11
- Start date
If good form was the deciding factor, Lonzo Ball would have shot 0% last year for sure.
We won't platoon, but Cal will likely go 10 deep early in the season.
If we platooned, I think it would look like this:
G Green/Gilgeous-Alexander
G Diallo/Johnson
F Vanderbilt/Washington
F Adebayo/Gabriel
F Bamba/Richards
Johnson is 6'8" with problems guarding small guards while exceeding in interior DEF. I doubt he sees minutes at the 2. The bulk will come from the 3 and possibly the 4 a small amount of time.
Logjam at the 4. I don't think he will play minutes there.
One of the selling points for Cal will be making him into a NBA 2G. That starts with him getting some minutes at the 2 for us.
Most of his minutes will be at the 3, most likely, though.
Wow, awesome update..so either Bamba and Bam or Bamba and we get Johnson...sounds good to me. Any situation where we take/get Smith if something above doesn't pan out?
That's one hell of a starting line up
In fairness, everybody is a better leaper when they get to gather themselves. He has the athleticism in spades, it's a matter of learning to make his motions less mechanical and use one motion in everything he does. Some of it is also pure youth. There are gonna be times where he thinks he has time to gather himself and then jump and attempt to block a shot, but while that's the logic he's using, it's also incorrect. He may be able to block a shot with a higher arch, but much of the time, while he's taking time to gather for a leap, the ball is almost to the glass, the rim, or at its peak, and it's too late to make a play on it. Experience will shore that up.
It's not just shot blocking though. Bam likes to gather on his jumps far too often (which leads to things like him being blocked, or having the ball swiped out of his hands during the gather). Again, one fluid motion, rather than gathering (as his natural instinct is telling him to do), and he'll make some pretty large improvements, imo.
The only time he should gather to block a shot is if he's a help-side defender, then he just needs to recognize when the shot is going to go up.
Hopefully, the commitment of Egor Koulachev pushes Johnson even closer towards a UK commitment.
You think that lineup is similar to our 2012 lineup? I'm sorry but I just don't see that at all. Diallo isn't a 2nd year player, he didn't play a single minute this past season. Plus, he's not similar to Doron in any way. Lamb was SO crucial to that team and that offense. The threat of his shooting kept teams honest and allowed Jones, Davis, MKG, Darius, and even Teague to get into the lane and dominate opponents. Diallo is not that type of player, he's not that type of shooter.
Lastly, this recruiting class is not on the level of 2012. I don't need to mention who we got in that class because we all already know but this group is not on that level. Davis was a once in a generation type player and MKG was a collegiate star. Outside of Bamba, that has the talent to be a star but I doubt a Davis type player, I'm not sure we have any players of that caliber. I hope I'm wrong and I'd love to be eating crow next summer but i just don't think they're similar to 2012. Just my opinion.
Just because the news is not different from what some are saying does not make it any less valuable. There is a big difference between someone saying "I could've told you this" and someone like Coach coming here and providing info. It's called CREDIBILITY.
If only for some confirmation to different rumors going around, it's still very valuable. There are always different rumors going around and we always have our own opinion about everything but it's nice to hear confirmation with credibility.
If you knew Coach, I doubt you'd be so disrespectful. The guy has been very generous with the info he has recieved in the past and some of us would like it to continue. His info has been accurate and he's a well respected poster here. So, we hope he continues to post what he hears, despite some who are a bit disrespectful. Just appreciate it.
Any jackass that questions Coach on here is just that,, a moronic jackass..
Perhaps so, but that isn't a gather. A gather is when you lower your body (usually bringing your arms back as well) and exploding upwards in 2 motions.
It's not at all uncommon for people to jump higher off a running-go, it's pretty common for people to jump higher when they get to get set, and use their full force to make a leap.
I know, that's what I meant. When I played I could jump much higher on a jog or sprit and then jump off one foot than I could if I were to crow hop to a spot and jump straight up off two feet. Giannis is like that and so was James White back in the day.
Duke and UNC do not have to play by the same rules as everyone else. There are no repercussions for anything they do. So why not have Capel recruiting?
I think you know what I meant. The difference between Bam's gathered leap and his quick leap is more than it needs to be.
He tends to linger on the gather.
I played with a guy like that in school. Could out jump everybody, but he always took a second to gather first. Shot a lot of free throws instead of making dunks.
I'm sure Bam will get better at it, but time will tell how much.
I thought I was pretty clear on my stance about how they would be similar, as in they would be similar in experience, and general positions. The only thing we would know from the group I listed is what Bam would provide, as we would be simply guessing on anyone else. It's easy to say Davis is better than Bamba, and likely is, but the problem is Bamba hasn't played a full season at UK, and Davis has. So you know what Davis provides, and are simply guessing what Bamba would provide. This is actually just as true with Lamb and Diallo. How do you know Diallo won't shoot it as well as Lamb? Lamb was great in college, but wasn't very good in high school. In fact, that was one of the knocks on Lamb, his 3 point shot, as he was more known for his mid range game. But again, we know what Lamb did at UK, Diallo has yet to play a single game at UK.
As for differences between the 2 line-ups based on what the perception of the new players are, there are many. Green is likely a better shooter and passer than Teague, but not as good at finishing. Diallo is likely a better paint scorer and finisher than Lamb, but not as good of a shooter, while defensively they should be pretty similar. Washington is likely a better shooter and ball handler than MKG, but not likely as good on defense or rebounding. Bam is likely a better post defender and power guy than Jones, but not as smooth with the ball. Bamba is likely as good on the defensive end as Davis, but not near as good on the offensive end, and in the end will likely not be near the overall contributor that Davis was.
Having said that, if Bam returns, Bamba comes, and we somehow get Johnson on board, that will be in and of itself amazing. It would also likely make us a much deeper team than we have been with the exception of 2015.
I agree with both of you and most of this post.
Exception: Bam is not TJ on any level yet. Look forward to watching his progress next season if he stays.
Bam Bam Bamba Ram both play grand both could be a mans man. Knox is like a Fox and Johnson is like a Monkey Dong ready to bite. We get Bamba. We get Bam back. We get Knox...or Johnson in next year we win..... Win it all we will take Duke down then we pound all the other teams and run them out of town. Big Blue Fans are the best and BBN don't care about the rest. You gotta believe that we will get all the good one's and if we don't getta um we don't need um. Hee Hee Haw Haw.
One of the things they measure at the combine, or at least in private workouts, is the second jump. So what you're talking about is real. Guys can be "athletic" but not athletic in every way. And it's not as simple as -- this guy is a fast twitch guy, so he's going to do these kinds of things well, and this guy over here is a slow-twitch guy, so he's going to do other things well. It's like the guy who has a really good 40 yard time, but a mediocre or slow shuttle time. Or, even more counterintuitive, the guy who has a high vertical and then a weak second jump or a slow jump......
Good stuff Coach.
I've actually heard the opposite regarding Bamba/Bam. It's an either or situation. Also be leery of the "total college experience" stuff. That's a ploy used by schools against UK. Business Decision would be pro UK. Something to keep an eye on with Bamba.
Friend who told me Bam was going to UK is saying he's heavily leaning toward staying in Draft.
Nothing regarding Cameron Johnson--leave that to others far more informed and friend didn't ask about him.
Knox--friend was told flip a coin depending on what hour it is--and he leans a different way--think he is feeling pressure of having to make a decision--which is difficult when you have the caliber of options he has--so good luck to you guys with this one.
Hope it all goes as you like--had fun trip and enjoyed myself and hope for your sake Coach's guy is correct.
I've actually heard the opposite regarding Bamba/Bam. It's an either or situation. Also be leery of the "total college experience" stuff. That's a ploy used by schools against UK. Business Decision would be pro UK. Something to keep an eye on with Bamba.
Friend who told me Bam was going to UK is saying he's heavily leaning toward staying in Draft.
Nothing regarding Cameron Johnson--leave that to others far more informed and friend didn't ask about him.
Knox--friend was told flip a coin depending on what hour it is--and he leans a different way--think he is feeling pressure of having to make a decision--which is difficult when you have the caliber of options he has--so good luck to you guys with this one.
Hope it all goes as you like--had fun trip and enjoyed myself and hope for your sake Coach's guy is correct.
It's always been interesting how explosive athleticism comes down to minute differences that can have a huge practical impact.
Take Jerry Rice. He famously did not test well in the 40. Yet on the field he seemed to have a separation ability like no one else, which probably came down to him being able to make smooth cuts without ever really slowing down.
Or take Charles Barkley. I doubt that Sir Charles' peak vertical leap was anywhere near the really elite jumpers. But he was unbelievably quick off the floor, first and second jumps. His reaction time just seemed a notch ahead of almost everyone else.
Another good example is probably Dom Hawkins' leaping ability vs someone like Monk or Fox. Hawkins has always tested out as a spectacular leaper, but, no offense to him, there's just no way you watch him on the court and conclude that he's anywhere near as athletic as guys like Monk and Fox.
With Bam, there's a quickness element that seems to be missing. No question he can jump, but you rarely saw him just explode up over everyone the way some guys can.
Everyone talking about plantooning... Cal said, and vehemently so, that he would never platoon again after the 2015 season because of the way it was used against him in recruiting. UK still ended up with the #1 recruiting class despite missing on no less than 6 of their primary targets in the spring and lucked into Murray blowing up during the Hoop Summit and deciding to reclassify.
UKCATSFREAK,
Even if Kentucky somehow end the class keeping Bam and Bamba, I still think they would lack the overall star power from the 2012 team. That team did have the top 2 picks in the NBA draft, TJ in the lottery, etc.
What UK would lack in star power, they would MORE than make up for in depth. In 2012, Calipari relied on 6 VERY GOOD players and used Wiltjer for 12 mpg. More or less a 7 man roster. Lots of star power, but VERY little depth.
IMO, this team Coach is proposing would be the most talented team we have seen in the modern era of college basketball. Even more so than 2015 Kentucky. I can see people arguing against that statement, but from 2015 we have KAT, Booker, Ullis, Lyles, and WCS that look to stay in the NBA for a long time and have star potential. The Harrisons, Johnson, Willis, and Poythress were exceptional college players, but not quite what I would call elite talent.
I see Green, Diallo, Johnson, Vanderbilt, Richards, Washington, Bam, and Bamba having that elite type of talent that could turn them into long time NBA players with star potential. In addition, after a year or two (Heck, maybe this season) at Kentucky, SGA, Baker, WG, Tai, or SKJ could develop into exceptional college players or possibly improve themselves to the point of being elite players with a long future in the NBA ahead of them to add to the first group I mentioned.
We would have a team consisting of 10 5* players, possibly the best grad transfer in college this year, and 1 4* shooter in Baker. Typing that out gives me shivers down my spine. Ha ha. As I have said in the past. This team could be Calipari's "Mona Lisa". A team filled with superstars who combined have absolutely no weaknesses other than experience.
While I doubt we end up with Bam and Bamba, as long as we get one of them and Cameron Johnson, we will be preseason #1 and postseason #1, if I were guessing. I have never been one to hype up a team in the preseason to this extant, but I am in such awe of what Calipari has built for this team after seeing so many departures after last season.
I have never predicted a regular season record in my life, but with Bam/Bamba and Cam, I fully expect to be 38-2 worst case with a shot at even better.
College basketball as a whole is down in a big way this year. Kentucky will not be down in any way you could think of. I posted in another thread that with these 12 players, I seriously think you could make 2 top 10 teams by splitting the 12 in half. We are going to be that deep.
I cannot wait to see how things wind up. Bamba and Cam with Bam declaring would be just fine by me. Anything on top of that would be unbelievable and frankly unfair to the rest of college basketball. Ha ha.
All in my worthless opinion, as always.
Even if Kentucky somehow end the class keeping Bam and Bamba, I still think they would lack the overall star power from the 2012 team. That team did have the top 2 picks in the NBA draft, TJ in the lottery, etc.
What UK would lack in star power, they would MORE than make up for in depth. In 2012, Calipari relied on 6 VERY GOOD players and used Wiltjer for 12 mpg. More or less a 7 man roster. Lots of star power, but VERY little depth.
IMO, this team Coach is proposing would be the most talented team we have seen in the modern era of college basketball. Even more so than 2015 Kentucky. I can see people arguing against that statement, but from 2015 we have KAT, Booker, Ullis, Lyles, and WCS that look to stay in the NBA for a long time and have star potential. The Harrisons, Johnson, Willis, and Poythress were exceptional college players, but not quite what I would call elite talent.
I see Green, Diallo, Johnson, Vanderbilt, Richards, Washington, Bam, and Bamba having that elite type of talent that could turn them into long time NBA players with star potential. In addition, after a year or two (Heck, maybe this season) at Kentucky, SGA, Baker, WG, Tai, or SKJ could develop into exceptional college players or possibly improve themselves to the point of being elite players with a long future in the NBA ahead of them to add to the first group I mentioned.
We would have a team consisting of 10 5* players, possibly the best grad transfer in college this year, and 1 4* shooter in Baker. Typing that out gives me shivers down my spine. Ha ha. As I have said in the past. This team could be Calipari's "Mona Lisa". A team filled with superstars who combined have absolutely no weaknesses other than experience.
While I doubt we end up with Bam and Bamba, as long as we get one of them and Cameron Johnson, we will be preseason #1 and postseason #1, if I were guessing. I have never been one to hype up a team in the preseason to this extant, but I am in such awe of what Calipari has built for this team after seeing so many departures after last season.
I have never predicted a regular season record in my life, but with Bam/Bamba and Cam, I fully expect to be 38-2 worst case with a shot at even better.
College basketball as a whole is down in a big way this year. Kentucky will not be down in any way you could think of. I posted in another thread that with these 12 players, I seriously think you could make 2 top 10 teams by splitting the 12 in half. We are going to be that deep.
I cannot wait to see how things wind up. Bamba and Cam with Bam declaring would be just fine by me. Anything on top of that would be unbelievable and frankly unfair to the rest of college basketball. Ha ha.
All in my worthless opinion, as always.
Not to override coach, as Bam has vacillated, but it is looking more like he will leave. If so, expect Cam.
Well that's because you lose your momentum. If you learn how to ease down into a more explosive position and explode upwards while running, it's infinitely more effective than the crow hop. A crow hop just forces you to gather because you have to completely stop your forward momentum, then create upward momentum.
We're on the same page though.
They should have nothing to do with each other, but if you are asking me, do not expect Bam back. He's 17 on Ford's board and I doubt very seriously he returns.
They have nothing to do with one another from a positional standpoint… But they do have something to do with one another as it relates to open scholarships.
***Though one of other departure still possible.
Last edited:
@ralphdaltonfan So no news as to which way Bamba is leaning? Also, any word on who we're in good with in '18 class?
don't really agree with this. barkley was a freak athlete. pretty explosive for his era
i remember him at the very end of his career with houston, after a whistle stopped play, reverse dunking from a complete standstill
in his early years with the sixers he'd fairly often rip the ball off the glass, scissor dribble through traffic, go up off one foot from the dotted line and dunk with two hands
Re-read what I wrote.
I'm agreeing with you, other than the fact that I think there were a lot of guys who, in a testing situation, would have jumped higher than Barkley. Barkley was more explosive than almost all of them.
marvin bagley appears to have a really quick 2nd and 3rd jump, in addition to the offensive skillset of a 24 year old chris bosh
Bamba is being seen as a heavy UK lean and my friend is very nervous. Hopefully it's just fact he's a diehard BBN guy--but he's got an uneasy feeling. Nobody talks--which I told him is usually good for UK--but this kid strikes him as being different to be different and that has him concerned. My feeling is that Cal made Bamba his #1 priority and it's been quiet and he can sell him on putting him in position to do all the things he wants to do by being a #1 pick, future NBA star and he's got not just the proof--but different types of bigs to show Bamba--it does matter where you go. Your impact on things beyond basketball is a lot easier when doors are opened because of your success. You want to take a risk and try things differently, good luck and hope it works for you--but business decisions are made because it's best for business, not to try and be different. Ask Malik Newman how that worked?
'18, heard Quentin Grimes likes UK a lot, Smart does--but UK prefers Quickley right now, and they are after a lot--but Eastern Bigs love UK.
RJ Barrett is expected to re-classify to '18 too. That's been talked about.
Bagley, Zion, and Romeo, too early.
Interesting that Javonte Smart is with Houston Hoops on EYBL and that Lou King and Cameron Reddish will be playing with Team Final.
Keep eye on Hameir Wright--know he wants UK offer badly-he re-classified from '17 to '18 and is a SF. Khavon Moore wants UK offer and interest badly as well.
What about Johnson's history as a former two star recruit who was only the third leading scorer on a losing Pitt team leads you to believe he will even sniff at the NBA? He is a college role player at best. Are you his agent or cousin?
Johnson is a 6'8" player that busted his ass for 3 years in a major conference to get to where he is today.
A guy that averaged 12 ppg (13ppg in the ACC) on a team dominated by 2 SR bigs that were the focal point of the entire offense while averaging 18ppg+. He is a great interior defender. He shot 42% from 3 and 82% from FT. He led his team in steals and graduated in 3 years with a 3.9 GPA.
He could very well be the next Kyle Korver who put up similar stats as a SO, and ended up being a consensus AA. I see him as being that great or better if his trajectory continues.
Lots of players take time to develop, which is different than what we have seen with Cal always having elite FR.
I'm certainly not his cousin or one of the 16 mostly major conference teams to contact him after he announced he was transferring. Would schools like Michigan and Florida do that for a player that won't see many minutes? I don't think so.
I don't understand why I have to defend Cameron Johnson. Look at his numbers and how hard he has worked. Consider the fact that Calipari wants him so badly. If he were a backup at best, why would Calipari pursue Cam instead of a top 50 FR like Mark Smith?
It's because Cam will be an EXCELLENT player no matter where he ends up and start from day 1.
Don't take my word for it. Just wait and see how wrong I am when the season starts.
I also end each comment with the following phrase, all in my worthless opinion as always...
Opinion... I can have mine and you can have yours, but it's coming to the point that I'm being insulted for explaining what kind of player he is. I went back and watched several of his games from last year and formed an opinion. Feel free to do the same. I REALLY doubt that you will see him as nothing more than a role player...
But if you do, that's cool, and I'm glad you formed your own opinion on him, and how much he will contribute with another years experience under his belt, after considering how far he has come since his true FR year.
A guy that averaged 12 ppg (13ppg in the ACC) on a team dominated by 2 SR bigs that were the focal point of the entire offense while averaging 18ppg+. He is a great interior defender. He shot 42% from 3 and 82% from FT. He led his team in steals and graduated in 3 years with a 3.9 GPA.
He could very well be the next Kyle Korver who put up similar stats as a SO, and ended up being a consensus AA. I see him as being that great or better if his trajectory continues.
Lots of players take time to develop, which is different than what we have seen with Cal always having elite FR.
I'm certainly not his cousin or one of the 16 mostly major conference teams to contact him after he announced he was transferring. Would schools like Michigan and Florida do that for a player that won't see many minutes? I don't think so.
I don't understand why I have to defend Cameron Johnson. Look at his numbers and how hard he has worked. Consider the fact that Calipari wants him so badly. If he were a backup at best, why would Calipari pursue Cam instead of a top 50 FR like Mark Smith?
It's because Cam will be an EXCELLENT player no matter where he ends up and start from day 1.
Don't take my word for it. Just wait and see how wrong I am when the season starts.
I also end each comment with the following phrase, all in my worthless opinion as always...
Opinion... I can have mine and you can have yours, but it's coming to the point that I'm being insulted for explaining what kind of player he is. I went back and watched several of his games from last year and formed an opinion. Feel free to do the same. I REALLY doubt that you will see him as nothing more than a role player...
But if you do, that's cool, and I'm glad you formed your own opinion on him, and how much he will contribute with another years experience under his belt, after considering how far he has come since his true FR year.
