What is the problem with the passing offense as you see it?

[*Bleedingblue*]

The second string QB is the most popular player on the team. Except at UK. Then it's the third or fourth string.

Well we know the second string QB can play as he already has lead TD drives.

 

[Tskware]

Mentioned in the spring that the WR unit was a weakness for this team. It's not SEC calibre at this time. Not enough top end speed, poor route runners who can't get separation, don't battle for 50-50 balls. This crew needs to grow up in a hurry.

Unfortunately, I am inclined to agree. Best we have is Bowden, who is beginning to show what he can do . . . but right now has two career TDs in 19 games. I wonder if we couldn't give Zaire Hughes more looks, he at least seems to have top end speed. Baker, Bouvier and Richardson are not going to run by anyone on deep balls, need to work the seams and crossing routes more, or at least get our big WRs ten yards up the field and turn to catch a comebacker for 8 yard gains. In any event, we have to get TW in a situation where he can make consistent 8 or 10 yard gains on passing plays. Or we need to give Hoak another look in the off week. Can't continue to have almost zero passing yards for a game.

On the bright side, I still think TW is a much better athlete than Stephen Johnson ever was, and at the half way mark of his first year, SJ looked just as bad if not worse than Wilson. But he did improve quite a bit over the last half of the year.

 

[WildCard]

First of all, let me say a GREAT original post and a lot of GREAT responses! Great work IFerg1969!

The Passing Game has 3 parts (Passing, Protecting and Catching) that are so interconnected it is hard to say one is more important than the other. Or perhaps it is more accurate to say Passing (i.e., the QB) is most important but without Protection and Catching you ain't gonna see much. My comments (many of which have already been noted)...

1. CMS is apparently "old school" in his football philosophy, i.e., play defense, run the ball, pass as required. To that point the Cats have had "average at best" QB talent since he arrived here 6 years. Yes, they missed 2 so called 4* guys but there are plenty of 4* QB "failures" each year. FWIW, Jones is 2 for 7 this year at 'Bama and Williams is 1 for 3 for Miami. Both are 3rd string at their chosen schools. Would they have brought better QB to UK this year? IDK

2. Wilson was a last second QB replacement pick up but has done very little to show he is "ready" to play at this level as best stated by CatsFanGG24:

Pre-snap reads, anticipation, throwing WRs open, throwing prior to cuts, afraid to make a contested throw, holding ball too long, not trusting self.​

Looking at some stats, Wilson is #24 in completion percentage at 66.4% but not in the top 100 in either YPA or QB Rating.

Can Hoak or one of the others do a better job? IDK

3. Regarding the Protection aspect of the Passing Game the Cats are ranked #118 in sack percentage at 11.01%. That is bad protection. And bad protection certainly has a negative effect on the passing game overall.

4. Which brings us the third aspect, Catching. This is a tough aspect to "assess" because the Passing and Protection parts have heretofore been so bad. Bowden is #70 nationally with 27 catches but those catches do not put him in the Top 100 in either yards or yards/catch. Wilson's completion percentage suggests the ball is being caught and in the big equation that is about all you can ask the receivers to do.

In his OP IFerg asks the question: "So, which one (a running QB or a passing QB) is more beneficial to the current offense?" Given the running game with Snell the obvious answer is a Passer.

All JMO

Peace

 

[mrschwump]

The problem is we have an inexperienced QB. Hopefully he gets there in time. Mrschwump is correct we do need more speed at WR but most if it is just timing IMO. Terry still takes longer than necessary making reads in the offense but that will come.

Get to the film room with coaches, nothing better than seeing your mistakes.

 

[dallasg23]

Need to make Terry more comfortable. Whether it’s help on DEs or moving the pocket. He does best when creating for himself. Get Conrad more involved on the PA pass. Get away from long developing pass play and tell him to take it and go when he sees the opening.

 

[mrschwump]

I like Wilson, and have hopes that he will improve ... but he's the problem. He simply doesn't read plays fast enough, and he's not an accurate passer.

Like that 3rd and 2 in OT that everyone is bitching about cause we didn't give it to Benny. That play would have worked with any QB that is a decent passer. #83 in the flat was open for a quick throw. Not even that hard of a throw. But Terry was looking at Conrad going to the end zone and missed the flat. That's a pretty simple play that should have worked, but our QB is not able to execute it.

#83 is backup TE Rigg who I don't recall being a primary receiver at anytime this year. He's in the game to block. I doubt TW or any other UK QB would be looking for him in that situation. I get what you're saying, I just think any UK QB is wired to look for primary playmakers and that isn't Rigg.

 

[SanAntonioCat]

Keep things in perspective. The Auburn QB, a veteran who beat Bama and Georgia last last year, went 19-38 for 214 yards with a fumble against Mississippi State yesterday. And Auburn scored 9 points in the loss. Bad games happen to other QBs too.

That fact is lost on this board of bourbon friendly fans.

 

[Bluegrasscard]

Without the 54 yard TD pass Saturday the total passing yards were 52 on 12 passes. This is a little over 4 yards per pass and less than Snell averaged per carry. This is a symptom of heavy use of very safe quick-outs or swing passes.

More slants, more drags, etc. As noted it seems there are no mid-range and over the middle pass plays.

There also does seem to be lack of a check-down safety value sometimes. It looks like when in a spread that all 4 receivers will go downfield on some plays with no outlet if a blitz comes or there is good coverage of the primary and secondary.

 

[1977CatFan]

We need a QB that can change the plays like JLO. I don't see Wilson ever being that QB.

 

[FiveStarBBN]

It’s very simple, Terry is having trouble reading defenses pre snap and post snap, causing him to not trust his eyes. Not trusting eyes causes throws to be late or held too long leading to protection breaking down. He’s a young QB and this is to be expected.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Without the 54 yard TD pass Saturday the total passing yards were 52 on 12 passes. This is a little over 4 yards per pass and less than Snell averaged per carry. This is a symptom of heavy use of very safe quick-outs or swing passes.

More slants, more drags, etc. As noted it seems there are no mid-range and over the middle pass plays.

There also does seem to be lack of a check-down safety value sometimes. It looks like when in a spread that all 4 receivers will go downfield on some plays with no outlet if a blitz comes or there is good coverage of the primary and secondary.

Even worse than that - that’s 4 yards per completion, only 2.8 yards per passing attempt.

 

[aikenite4uk]

Well we know the second string QB can play as he already has lead TD drives.

We also know there is a world of difference in playing Central Michigan at home vs. A&M at Kyle Field.

 

[aikenite4uk]

As usual it's a combination of things....
1. An inexperienced quarterback....news flash to some UK fans. Young QB's occaisonally have bad games against good teams on the road. Experienced QB's also suffer the same fate at times...See Jake Bentley against your favorite team.
2. Lack of speed at the wide receiver position to stretch the field. It's time to give some of the younger guys a legitimate shot.
3. An OL that is a little suspect against athletic DL's in pass protection.
4. A coach who has put the fear of God into our QB regarding "ball security" such that he's petrified to make a mistake and is holding onto the ball too long.
5. Unimaginative play calling....why we don't roll out a mobile quarterback to buy some time is beyond me.

 

[UKUGA]

I expect to see some real positive change over the next few weeks.

However, I think they will try to pound Vandy with the run and save anything new for Missouri and then Georgia.

 

[billoliver40]

Wilson is not a passer. Never was. By the time he is a senior with a lot of work he may be mediocre at passing, but his mechanics were all wrong from the first snap.
Gunnar is a bit better passer, but after three years if you don't have the RPO down enough to beat out a JUCO transfer that never used it, I ain't sure there's much hope.
I doubt Clark ever sees any time barring catastrophic failure.

 

[fuzz77]

He can't read a defense, there for he can't get rid of the football quik enough. .. 117 yards passing per game with a TD/INT ratio of 3/5 isn't good. Honestly I think Stoops needs to pull a Bama/Clemson and make the change at QB regardless of record because it can't get any worse...

We are 5-1 with the hardest part of our schedule behind us... yes, it can get much worse.

I can only guess that you would be more happy to be 3-3 (0-3 in SEC) but have a good passing game like Mizzou?
Why would you go away from the thing you do the best? How many other teams have a defense like A&M? Georgia maybe? Vandy? no, Mizzou? no, Tennessee? no, MTSU? no, Louisville? not hardly...

I can only shake my head at the idiots that come out after a loss...most who are never around here when we win. Go on back to the Rafters and yuck it up with the boys over there. After all...BBM is only a few days away.

 

[WildcatofNati]

We also know there is a world of difference in playing Central Michigan at home vs. A&M at Kyle Field.

That's true, but Wilson didn't have a much easier time with Central Michigan at home than with A&M at Kyle Field. To be fair, he was great in the Swamp, so I don't know what the answer is here. Perhaps, just like about every other position, all options should be kept open- including Danny Clark as an option.

 

[The-Hack]

He’s a young QB and this is to be expected.

True.

Folks need to think back to the Sophomore year of Woodson, compared to his Junior and Senior seasons. There's no guarantee that Wilson will improve to the extent that Woodson did, but there's no real proof he won't.

It's a little frustrating that we do not have a seasoned former AA QB in his senior year, the same year we have so much mature talent at other positions. But is is what it is, and TTW's next season and the season after that, he will be considered a major returning talent for UK.

 

[SanAntonioCat]

Wilson is not a passer. Never was. By the time he is a senior with a lot of work he may be mediocre at passing, but his mechanics were all wrong from the first snap.
Gunnar is a bit better passer, but after three years if you don't have the RPO down enough to beat out a JUCO transfer that never used it, I ain't sure there's much hope.
I doubt Clark ever sees any time barring catastrophic failure.

Time to pack it in and retreat to our former state of mediocrity according to this post.

 

[law1127]

I agree with the sarcasm (bill Oliver earned it)!

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

I'm not looking for a 350yd/gm passing offense, as fun as that would be to see. I just want 200-225yds/gm, enough to keep defenses honest. This is about as inept a passing offense as I have seen as a fan (since the late 70s). But, UK has not had a decent passing offense since Stoops has been at UK in 6 years. I question whether or not it's even a priority for him to be competent with that part of the offense. It shouldn't take 6+ years to have a serviceable passing game (and they still aren't there).

I love what they are doing with the defense and the run game (outside of last night, when they faced a good team that didn't have to work at defending the pass). I just don't get why it's so damn difficult to have a respectable passing game. Seems like it's being made far more difficult than it needs to be.

Look, I think thought of the 'dual-threat' QB is an enticing one. But, in the many years I have watched college football, it is a very rare thing to find a dual-threat QB that is both excellent running as well as passing. So, more often than not you either get a QB that can really run but then you have to accept their deficiencies as a passer or you get a passing QB that is limited with his feet. So, which one is more beneficial to the current offense? I don't have the answers. I just know you're not going to beat the better teams in this conference being one dimensional.

Lack of accuracy, lack of attempts, lack of a willingness to give Hoak a shot, riding the safer running game with a great runner to ride, who knows what Wilson was told if he would come here, and riding a great defense.

We only have one loss so the coaches are asking us what our deal is. Wilson has led us the first half of the year to our best start since whenever. Hard to argue that but there seems to be no plan B when we face a top defense that won't let us do our thing. Hopefully they put an emphasis on the passing game and more open offense starting today so we are ready for the next couple of top defenses we will face.

 

[KYNC89]

Like others had said, Wilson is still not up to speed at the QB position to read fast enough and make quick decisions. Why not set up play action. Giving him the opportunity to either run or pass where the window may be. The other part is our receivers. I may be wrong but I’ve only noticed 4 guys make plays on the ball the first 6 games. Bowden and Conrad more so, and baker and bouvier as well. When your options are limited your decision making becomes impaired unless you are Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning

 

[zcats]

The option would actually do well and would utilize Terry's God given ability a lot better if they have been working on it in practice.. But running the option is a lot more difficult than many think because it's about timing and unselfishness of the QB!

They tried optioning him in the first game but gave it up. He doesn't read and decide fast enough. Running the option requires more than straight ahead speed.

 

[zcats]

Wilson is just not very good. It is that simple and that is why we were his best offer so late after flaming out at Oregon and being above average in JUCO. As a runner he is fast but not quick or elusive and he is not courageous. As a passer he doesn't see the field and he friezes in the face of a rush. He was playing pretty well Saturday and then got smacked after which he was rattled and basically done for the night. I don't think he will get significantly better because these are big problems. You can't win with a QB is is afraid of the moment. I would refer you to Stephen Johnson at the start of the 2016 UL game when he mouthed at the LOS "I love this shit".

 

[Comebakatz3]

I think in some instances we just don't have anyone open. I am not sure if that is a product of poor play design or poor WR play. However, most of the time, we have someone open and it seems like Wilson just misses them. This is probably because he is most likely to lock onto a primary target. Wilson is just a sophomore, so that is somewhat expected and certainly something he can and will get better at as the days go by.

I personally think the protection has been pretty solid. Wildcard listed a protection stat, but (and no offense to him), that stat doesn't take into account, to my knowledge, how long the QB actually holds the ball. A very poor offensive line will give a QB little to no time. A better offensive line gives more time, but if no one is open or the QB doesn't see open targets, then that time could run out and it really not be the fault of the protection. I think run blocking is definitely the strength of our offensive line, but I think they have done pretty decent at pass protection this year.

All in all, I am playing a bit of a wait and see. I think Wilson has plenty of talent and I think he just had a horrible game against TAMU. I put it on the coaches for not recognizing that soon enough and for not putting the ball in the hands of our best player. 13 carries for Snell in what was largely a 7-7 game is just dumb. Especially given that Snell was still averaging 4.6 yards a carry. He was productive in 13 carries, so it just makes no sense not to give him the ball.

 

[reflaine]

Playmakers!

We have had plenty of balls this season where we have had chances to make plays. You can count on one hand the number of times we made them.

Goes both on receivers and qb. Wilson has missed throws, all qbs do. But he has also had some plays that should of been made by receivers.

Every week we see guys make catches on us when coverage is good, how many of those have we made? I can think of CJ grab where he went over the guy. That’s it.

 

[HoptownCat93]

1. We've played some really good defensive teams. Mississippi State, SC, Florida, & A&M are some very good teams that a lot of teams may have trouble passing on.

2. Inexperience. Terry is new...not only is he new...he's new to SEC play. It may take him a bit of time to get used to the speed of play and get on par with his weapons.

3. QB battle. We had a QB battle between 2 completely different styles of QB. Neither QB nor the team got to be able to have a full spring/summer to get the timing down with 1 QB. We didn't get to install a full playbook to complement Terry because he was splitting time with Gunnar.

The Cure?
Vanderbilt, Mizzou, Tennessee, MTSU, & Louisville on the back half with a bye week.

We have a week to reset and put some things into the offense. Every team (minus Georgia) down the stretch isn't really that good defensibly. We should be able to move the ball better and get TTW some more confidence.

 

[fuzz77]

Lack of accuracy, lack of attempts, lack of a willingness to give Hoak a shot, riding the safer running game with a great runner to ride, who knows what Wilson was told if he would come here, and riding a great defense.

We only have one loss so the coaches are asking us what our deal is. Wilson has led us the first half of the year to our best start since whenever. Hard to argue that but there seems to be no plan B when we face a top defense that won't let us do our thing. Hopefully they put an emphasis on the passing game and more open offense starting today so we are ready for the next couple of top defenses we will face.

So...if "no plan B" results in a 9 or 10 win season... you're upset?

And who are those "next couple of top defenses we will face"? I'll give you UGA... you can finish that list. We've played the #1, 8, 30, 65 and 73 ranked defenses... we have to play the #2, 45, 63, 103 and 105 ranked. Our defense is ranked #5.

If we can consistently win 9-10 games our recruiting will become infinitely better and make "plan B"s more likely and also enhance our plan As. Besides, when was the last "plan B" option, who was the last 2nd string QB that proved to be a real upgrade at UK? Drew Barker pre-injury was better than Stephen Johnson. We seem to go through this every year. We lose a game and people start calling for changes at QB. Whenever those changes happen be they due to injury or coaches decisions fans see that the #2QB also has flaws and they start calling for the next guy in line.
The coaches know which guy gives them the best chance to win. They all have flaws and defenses adjust to those flaws. That's football. That's why the coaches are all paid the big bucks to know and evaluate their own talent and to expose those flaws on the other side. The fact that we have a run/ball control offense allows our defense to rest and be strong when they are on the field.

 

[gamecockcat]

I tend to disagree with several posters who've said 'it was a bad game - all QBs have bad games'. While that's true, in TW's case, it's been several bad games already (ints in the 1st game, very poor stats v USC and aTm) and just the eye test says something is not clicking yet. Will it soon? Hopefully. But dismissing aTm game as 'just a bad game' does not truly represent how the passing game has been this year with the exception of the Florida game.

Many really good suggestions in this thread: moving the pocket, lessening the number of reads, working the middle of the field, play action, shorter routes, timing routes, having a safety valve, simplifying the playbook, etc. Somewhere in here lies the answer. The staff needs to figure it out.

 

[3kidsandme]

Wilson is just not very good. It is that simple and that is why we were his best offer so late after flaming out at Oregon and being above average in JUCO. As a runner he is fast but not quick or elusive and he is not courageous. As a passer he doesn't see the field and he friezes in the face of a rush. He was playing pretty well Saturday and then got smacked after which he was rattled and basically done for the night. I don't think he will get significantly better because these are big problems. You can't win with a QB is is afraid of the moment. I would refer you to Stephen Johnson at the start of the 2016 UL game when he mouthed at the LOS "I love this shit".

He's 5 1 with same players as Smitty? You don't think a inexperience qb can get better? I was frustrated by the last game but if I read your post I would think we where looking at a 5 win season.

 

[zcats]

He's 5 1 with same players as Smitty? You don't think a inexperience qb can get better? I was frustrated by the last game but if I read your post I would think we where looking at a 5 win season.

Sorry I failed to recognize that Wilson was completely responsible for our success. I guess that our stellar 121st ranked passing game is pushing that record. Wilson has cut down on his turnovers.

The question isn’t what our record is today it is can we adjust to what defenses are going to force us to do going forward.

 

[reflaine]

Wilson is just not very good. It is that simple and that is why we were his best offer so late after flaming out at Oregon and being above average in JUCO. As a runner he is fast but not quick or elusive and he is not courageous. As a passer he doesn't see the field and he friezes in the face of a rush. He was playing pretty well Saturday and then got smacked after which he was rattled and basically done for the night. I don't think he will get significantly better because these are big problems. You can't win with a QB is is afraid of the moment. I would refer you to Stephen Johnson at the start of the 2016 UL game when he mouthed at the LOS "I love this shit".

Florida and Mullen really wanted Wilson. We wasn’t his only option. And I think Mullen has a pretty good knack for dual threat qbs

 

[mark0202]

It is difficult to argue with the overall success of this team. I mean, Kentucky has a 5 – 1 record, and 3 – 4 in the SEC. Can you believe it! Still, it is obviously apparent that the overall offense game plan to date has been somewhat rudimentary. As fans, if the run game is working on all cylinders and the team is ringing up wins, no one really notices that Kentucky is only using about 30% of their offensive capabilities. Something that South Carolina took notice of in the second half of their game. A&M keyed into the lack of dynamic offensive game planning for the entire game. Unless Kentucky can open up its playbook, we may next see Vanderbilt use the same keys as SC and A&M.

 

[zcats]

Florida and Mullen really wanted Wilson. We wasn’t his only option. And I think Mullen has a pretty good knack for dual threat qbs

I believe that recruiting interest is real when there is an official visit and a written offer.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

So...if "no plan B" results in a 9 or 10 win season... you're upset?

And who are those "next couple of top defenses we will face"? I'll give you UGA... you can finish that list. We've played the #1, 8, 30, 65 and 73 ranked defenses... we have to play the #2, 45, 63, 103 and 105 ranked. Our defense is ranked #5.

If we can consistently win 9-10 games our recruiting will become infinitely better and make "plan B"s more likely and also enhance our plan As. Besides, when was the last "plan B" option, who was the last 2nd string QB that proved to be a real upgrade at UK? Drew Barker pre-injury was better than Stephen Johnson. We seem to go through this every year. We lose a game and people start calling for changes at QB. Whenever those changes happen be they due to injury or coaches decisions fans see that the #2QB also has flaws and they start calling for the next guy in line.
The coaches know which guy gives them the best chance to win. They all have flaws and defenses adjust to those flaws. That's football. That's why the coaches are all paid the big bucks to know and evaluate their own talent and to expose those flaws on the other side. The fact that we have a run/ball control offense allows our defense to rest and be strong when they are on the field.

Georgia and we should be playing a pretty strong team in the bowl game. Being content with two less wins because of the offense, when maybe a little more flexibility on offense could deter that. Stoops keeps saying they are a tight team that doesn't blame each other, picks each other up. The way it should be. But is it fair to the defensive players to carry such a big load IF there is something the coaches can do to make the offense just a little better.

I am ecstatic about what the players and coaches have done so far but that has nothing to do with wondering what they can do to improve the weak points in our offense. Our running game and defense is there to win a lot of games but there is no guarantee that Shurmer won't pass us silly and we may have to score some points or that TN won't play their best game of the year on their home field.

 

[megablue]

We need better separation and hot reads.

 

[shutzhund]

He can't read a defense, there for he can't get rid of the football quik enough. .. 117 yards passing per game with a TD/INT ratio of 3/5 isn't good. Honestly I think Stoops needs to pull a Bama/Clemson and make the change at QB regardless of record because it can't get any worse...

Receivers that can't get separation, hold on to the ball and won't go over the middle. Fans that see receivers that are open, from the safety of their seats and not from the view over the oncoming defensive line. An offensive line that has never been good at pass protection but great in run blocking.

Let me see, I think that's about it.

 

[IFerg1969]

We are 5-1 with the hardest part of our schedule behind us... yes, it can get much worse.

I can only guess that you would be more happy to be 3-3 (0-3 in SEC) but have a good passing game like Mizzou?
Why would you go away from the thing you do the best? How many other teams have a defense like A&M? Georgia maybe? Vandy? no, Mizzou? no, Tennessee? no, MTSU? no, Louisville? not hardly...

I can only shake my head at the idiots that come out after a loss...most who are never around here when we win. Go on back to the Rafters and yuck it up with the boys over there. After all...BBM is only a few days away.

I don't think most of the people on this board want to abandon running the ball in favor of throwing for 300-350yds/gm just for the sake of it. I think what people want is a competent passing game, enough to keep defenses honest. That will only help the running game by not allowing defenses to stack the box.

I mean, if 9-3 is the best UK can do this season by doing things as they are currently doing them and not getting better at anything, that's better than most years for sure. I'd be happy with that. But maybe improving the pass game keeps defenses a little more in-check, opening up the running lanes a bit more, keeping drives going and resting the D a little more.

Who knows, maybe in the end they get another win out of it and go 10-2 instead of 9-3 and get a better bowl game. Why wouldn't someone want that? To just accept things as they are and not want to improve something that could help the product out as a whole, I just don't understand why someone wouldn't want to do that given the opportunity.

 

[sefus12]

I've come to fully realize that some people on here simply won't be happy with Wilson at QB. They want Gunner for some reason (despite the fact that he hasn't won a QB battle in three years here). We could be playing UL to go 10-2 and some of these people will still be bitching about how Wilson is hurting the team and the back-up needs to get some reps.

WIlson has started SIX games in in D1 football. I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as of now to see if he can improve.

 

[Blueaz]

I'm not looking for a 350yd/gm passing offense, as fun as that would be to see. I just want 200-225yds/gm, enough to keep defenses honest. This is about as inept a passing offense as I have seen as a fan (since the late 70s). But, UK has not had a decent passing offense since Stoops has been at UK in 6 years. I question whether or not it's even a priority for him to be competent with that part of the offense. It shouldn't take 6+ years to have a serviceable passing game (and they still aren't there).

I love what they are doing with the defense and the run game (outside of last night, when they faced a good team that didn't have to work at defending the pass). I just don't get why it's so damn difficult to have a respectable passing game. Seems like it's being made far more difficult than it needs to be.

Look, I think thought of the 'dual-threat' QB is an enticing one. But, in the many years I have watched college football, it is a very rare thing to find a dual-threat QB that is both excellent running as well as passing. So, more often than not you either get a QB that can really run but then you have to accept their deficiencies as a passer or you get a passing QB that is limited with his feet. So, which one is more beneficial to the current offense? I don't have the answers. I just know you're not going to beat the better teams in this conference being one dimensional.

Problems
QB-mechanics are poor; especially footwork, He is all arm... and, his confidence in himself and receivers seeems to be lacking...he looks like he is trying guide the pass.
WRs- poor routes, not crisp and not running hard every time.
Those together=equal what we saw last week