What exactly does Cal need to do for you guys to be content with his usage of Reed ?

[Cats192]

We want to enjoy this season. But Cal's history of stubbornness and loyalty to his 5 stars might cost us some of that enjoyment if we lose some games because of it.

I hear you.

But Cal gave Reed 10 more minutes the very next game. Reed played the same minutes as the guy you're dubbing "Cal's boy."

We can actively see Cal rewarding the kid. But some people are acting like Cal cut his minutes after the Kansas game.

 

[Cats192]

Reed should play over 30 minutes a game. In a tight, tournament game, he plays 40 if possible.

I don't think anyone should ever play 40 minutes.

 

[Cawood86]

I am enjoying the games and as long as they play the minutes they are playing I am happy. Dont know what you mean by propping of falsehoods but really, I dont get get why you always seem to have to have something to whine about.

I don't. At all.

 

[Mike-McD]

I hear you.

But Cal gave Reed 10 more minutes the very next game. Reed played the same minutes as the guy you're dubbing "Cal's boy."

We can actively see Cal rewarding the kid. But some people are acting like Cal cut his minutes after the Kansas game.

I never used the phrase "Cal's boy" but I take your point. Let's hope that Cal recognizes the need for Shep to play AT LEAST 25 minutes per game. If so, we'll be all right most of the time even if DJ never improves much.

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

As of this post, Reed is the best overall basketball player on the team, followed by Dillingham.

Look at ANY other 2 best players from ANY team sport, and tell me the difference!

No other team from ANY team sport, amateur or professional, has their two best players coming off the bench!

You can’t and won’t find ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE, except Cal and UK! Period.

Yea I just think this is cover for Calipari with some. They know he’s going to put Wagner ahead of our team goals and want to have an excuse ready for it.

You are correct, it’s completely ridiculous to try and make sense of your two best players sitting on the bench to start the game.

I guess the Lakers were stupid for not sitting Lebron and AD on the bench to start games for the lakers. They must not understand the genius of Calipari’s methods.

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

Not at all.

I'm just kind of having my mind blown reading all of the whining about Reed's mistreatment. He got the same minutes as the guy you're wanting benched. He got more shots than that guy. He scored 25 points.

But, Cal has it out for him.

Calipari doesn’t have it out for Reed, although I definitely think he knows fans will be a little tee’d at certain points (like minutes overall) and probably enjoys their anger. But not to the point of hurting Reed in anyway. Calipari just enjoys pissing people off.

And I definitely don’t think, or I know, hardly no one hates Wagner or Edwards. What they are is sick of the team being put behind program success for the draft status of others. Some of that is understandable for recruiting, but even then, definitely not to the point Calipari does it. And Calipari definitely does this as he’s essentially admitted but some still don’t want to
give it.

It makes no sense to have your two best players sitting on the bench to start games. And we will lose games because of it at some point if Wagner and Edwards don’t click. Personally, I might try and ride with Wagner starting for a while longer but Wagner and Edwards don’t need to be starting together at this time.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I just think that anyone claiming to definitely know who our best players are after just 4 games should go and buy some lotto tickets. You can tell whose performed the best in those games of course and that definitely should affect how people feel going forward about certain players but claiming Player X is a bust of Player Y is an absolutely star I think might be jumping the gun a bit here.

 

[The_Answer1313]

And I definitely don’t think, or I know, hardly no one hates Wagner or Edwards. What they are is sick of the team being put behind program success for the draft status of others. Some of that is understandable for recruiting, but even then, definitely not to the point Calipari does it. And Calipari definitely does this as he’s essentially admitted but some still don’t want to
give it.

The counter to this is maybe he's not starting these guys because of their star rating but rather he knows that in order for this team to reach it's full potential, we gotta get these guys going.

Maybe it's more like okay I realize this might be hurting us in the short term but in the long term we might be better off.

Of course having said that, seeding matters. Winning matters. So it's a big balancing act here. We need Reed to be good. We need Rob to be good. We need Wagner and Edwards also to be good.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Whether fairly or unfairly, the top rated prospect will always get playing time to prove they are a bust.
The lower rated prospect will always have to prove that they were rated too lowly.

This isn't a Cal thing. It's a college basketball thing. All bluebloods that recruit these top guys, it's the same thing.

Because on average, the highly rated guy is higher for a reason. That doesn't mean there aren't busts and that doesn't mean that a lower rated guy can't actually be the star tho. It's just that I think that is going to take a bit more than 4 games to determine here.

 

[MrHotDice]

Given the probable guard exodus of this team, I think Perry will have ample opportunity to play. However, I think people will have to temper their expectations of his immediate impact. Perry isn't the athlete that Sheppard is. That aspect has made Sheppard's transition from high school to college a lot easier.

Shepherd is not athletic. He’s just a kid with great fundamentals that makes the game come easy.

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

Shepherd is not athletic. He’s just a kid with great fundamentals that makes the game come easy.

I’ve never understood the “athletic” thing. He looks pretty damn athletic to me.

Btw, for some reason I’m seeing this a lot and usually I don’t care, but Sheppard is special and we need to get his name right.

 

[CatsFanIL]

Just a really bad post. Just spewing nonsense. Nobody wants to see Wagner and Edwards fail.

Folks are saying the same thing about Dillingham. He's playing wonderful basketball. You're just bitter or something

I'm a huge Reed fan, and my 5-year old son is right there with me. But if you think posters on here will treat him how they did Wagner/Edwards if Reed has a game where he shoots 1-9 with 4 TOs - you're crazy....

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

I'm a huge Reed fan, and my 5-year old son is right there with me. But if you think posters on here will treat him how they did Wagner/Edwards if Reed has a game where he shoots 1-9 with 4 TOs - you're crazy....

Well yea, but that’s because he’s a legacy kid. I can say this though, if you swap Reed and Wagner’s numbers and impact both have had to this point, not a single UK guy would be calling for Reed to start. People are overplaying this pampered Reed schtick.

Kentucky fans, and any fanbase, are going to give more leeway with a legacy player. But if he sucked you wouldn’t hear much about it. We’d probably be talking about how much better Jeff is, and discussions would center around his impact by junior or senior year, something to that effect.

 

[CatsFanIL]

I just don't see how the current set up is "hurting the team."

We just hit the most 3 point shots ever under Cal. The lineup decisions are clearly hurting us.

What posters don't realize is Cal is trying to make the team the best the team can be. If we're going to make a run in the postseason, Reed can't be our best player. If we're going to have success that posters on here want to have, then DJ and Edwards need to live up to the hype. Posters just see 2 or 3 game and want to rush to judgement for short-term success. Cal is trying to give DJ and Edwards a longer leash because we NEED them to improve, we NEED them to figure it out. Otherwise, we ain't going far

 

[CatsFanIL]

Most Coaches make you earn your starting job and minutes
Cal looks at Rivals recruiting rankings and picks his

Wouldn't it be crazy if Cal made these decisions based on what he sees in practice, you know, what 99.99999% of posters on here don't see?!?!?

Wouldn't it be crazy if Cal made these decisions based on what is best for long-term success? As in, we need DJ and Edwards to figure it out if we plan on making any kind of big noise in the NCAAT?

It'd be crazy, right?!

 

[UKortho]

I'm a huge Reed fan, and my 5-year old son is right there with me. But if you think posters on here will treat him how they did Wagner/Edwards if Reed has a game where he shoots 1-9 with 4 TOs - you're crazy....

That might be right, not sure. A bad game is coming- no doubt. He’s a freshman and I hope that he (and Edwards/DJ) continue to develop. At least for me, I thought the highly ranked recruits would have been a little better. It is early and we have plenty of examples of improvement. I still think Reed should start however.

 

[Cats192]

Wouldn't it be crazy if Cal made these decisions based on what he sees in practice, you know, what 99.99999% of posters on here don't see?!?!?

Wouldn't it be crazy if Cal made these decisions based on what is best for long-term success? As in, we need DJ and Edwards to figure it out if we plan on making any kind of big noise in the NCAAT?

It'd be crazy, right?!

This.

People have dubbed Reed and Rob our best player after 1 game vs good competition. He has played the best. People act like the Kansas game defined everything about this team.

I'm not sure that means by the end of the season he is viewed as our best player. I still think there's a very good possibility we look back on the year and talk about how special DJ has been.

I think Cal has evaluated DJ and Reed for years. And 1 basketball game vs Kansas doesn't change what he thinks.

 

[UKortho]

What posters don't realize is Cal is trying to make the team the best the team can be. If we're going to make a run in the postseason, Reed can't be our best player. If we're going to have success that posters on here want to have, then DJ and Edwards need to live up to the hype. Posters just see 2 or 3 game and want to rush to judgement for short-term success. Cal is trying to give DJ and Edwards a longer leash because we NEED them to improve, we NEED them to figure it out. Otherwise, we ain't going far

Can’t disagree with this post. I just believe minutes are earned and Cal never looks at it that way.

 

[CatsFanIL]

Can’t disagree with this post. I just believe minutes are earned and Cal never looks at it that way.

Hey, there was no one on this board that was more anti-BJ Boston getting all his minutes than me - BUT that came later in the season, not after a few games of struggling. Same with Askew, same with others.

But this roster pretty clearly needs DJ and Edwards to be really, really good. Actually, I think we just need one of them to be really, really good but we certainly need the other to be better than what we've seen so far.

IF IF IF Reed and Rob continuing playing like they are, Reeves continues to get some buckets, and we get a 7-footer back, IF Adou keeps developing and performing - I don't think you need both DJ and Edwards to live up to the hype, but certainly need one of them too.

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

What posters don't realize is Cal is trying to make the team the best the team can be. If we're going to make a run in the postseason, Reed can't be our best player. If we're going to have success that posters on here want to have, then DJ and Edwards need to live up to the hype. Posters just see 2 or 3 game and want to rush to judgement for short-term success. Cal is trying to give DJ and Edwards a longer leash because we NEED them to improve, we NEED them to figure it out. Otherwise, we ain't going far

I’m fine (right now) with whatever. As long as Reed is getting the minutes I don’t care at this time necessarily. And you do have to balance things for recruiting purposes, I get that too.

What I won’t accept is when it’s as obvious as tits behind a see thru braw that both Dillybar and Shep are clearly better, and they never break into the starting lineup. I mean, you can’t have your two most impactful players coming off the bench in tough games. That can be the difference in wins and losses, and we’ve got historical records to protect.

I think what’s really concerning people is they know how this goes with Calipari. He will put the draft status of players ahead of the team, and most, rightfully so, aren’t okay with that. So really I think it’s more of a “here we go again” situation and people are just tired of this year in and year out.

Calipari needs to focus on his own legacy, and our program’s legacy, at this point in his career. The players play, not Calipari, are responsible for their draft status.

Im hoping Wagner turns it up. It will sort all of this out if that happens. But I’m worried I see an overrated recruit, and I still think Edwards has more upside for some reason. Either way, if things don’t change Shep and Dbar have to be starters at some point.

I’m hoping over the next 2-3 weeks Edwards and Wagner turn the corner. If so none of this matters.

 

[TNCatfanforever]

How about a final 4

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

How about a final 4

How about the final one?

 

[CatsFanIL]

I’m fine (right now) with whatever. As long as Reed is getting the minutes I don’t care at this time necessarily. And you do have to balance things for recruiting purposes, I get that too.

What I won’t accept is when it’s as obvious as tits behind a see thru braw that both Dillybar and Shep are clearly better, and they never break into the starting lineup. I mean, you can’t have your two most impactful players coming off the bench in tough games. That can be the difference in wins and losses, and we’ve got historical records to protect.

I think what’s really concerning people is they know how this goes with Calipari. He will put the draft status of players ahead of the team, and most, rightfully so, aren’t okay with that. So really I think it’s more of a “here we go again” situation and people are just tired of this year in and year out.

Calipari needs to focus on his own legacy, and our program’s legacy, at this point in his career. The players play, not Calipari, are responsible for their draft status.

Im hoping Wagner turns it up. It will sort all of this out if that happens. But I’m worried I see an overrated recruit, and I still think Edwards has more upside for some reason. Either way, if things don’t change Shep and Dbar have to be starters at some point.

I don't disagree at all. And like I posted elsewhere, I was ADAMANTLY opposed to BJ Boston and Devin Askew and Skal - and at times Nick Richards too - continuing to start game after game when clearly not being one of the best players on the team. BUT, I felt that way after several games, not after 3 or 4 games.

If DJ and Edwards don't figure it out, I'll be alllllll about Reed and Shep moving into the starting lineup and/or playing the majority of the mins (the 2 aren't the same, after all).

But for me, I'm still much more likely to believe Cal is starting them because he knows they need to figure it out in order for us to compete for a national title, NOT because they were "5 stars" or higher recruits

 

[crestcat]

i'm gonna take Cal at his word, he says he's more about the players so I'm gonna believe that is his motive for his actions, Me, I just wanna win games

 

[SmorgusKilos96er]

i'm gonna take Cal at his word, he says he's more about the players so I'm gonna believe that is his motive for his actions, Me, I just wanna win games

Personally, I believe it all started mainly as a recruiting pitch. He was revolutionary into the newer generations and their “me first” mentality, along with the OAD rule changes. He was essentially the first coach to say “this is about you not the team” to attract 1 year NBA kids.

I do think as time went on, Calipari started to actually buy into his own pitch, and like
most coaches with the UK job, his ego grew, and it turned into the Godfather of the NBA player. Just my opinion on that.

To me, I don’t like the concept of player first, program second, education 3rd, when it comes to anything kids and academic settings. I hope like crazy he gets his second ring because we definitely need it to happen. However, I’m ready to get back to a traditional way of operating. I played sports for most of my life, and I have always been taught the name on the back is secondary to the name on the front. That’s just in my blood especially with UK basketball and won’t change.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Reed got 26 minutes, scored 25 points.

And I keep reading how the kid is being slighted and Cal only plays "his guys" to protect their draft stock. Wagner played 26 minutes. Wagner went 3/8 from 3 and played a decent game. So Cal actually played Reed the same number of minutes as "His NBA boy" as some of you like to put it.

If Reed gets the same number of minutes as "Cal's guy," is he not...one of Cal's guys? I'm so confused.

So do you need Reed to play a certain number of minutes? Is he only being treated fairly if he hits 30 minutes? Is he being cheated if he doesn't start? Does he need to score 30 for him to be used properly?

Best player usually gets to start and get the most minutes. Does Sheppard not have a lot on the line also?

 

[rob_47]

Shepherd is not athletic. He’s just a kid with great fundamentals that makes the game come easy.

How did you come to that conclusion? Reed is much more athletic than you think he is. There is nothing unathletic about his game.

 

[crestcat]

Personally, I believe it all started mainly as a recruiting pitch. He was revolutionary into the newer generations and their “me first” mentality, along with the OAD rule changes. He was essentially the first coach to say “this is about you not the team” to attract 1 year NBA kids.

I do think as time went on, Calipari started to actually buy into his own pitch, and like
most coaches with the UK job, his ego grew, and it turned into the Godfather of the NBA player. Just my opinion on that.

To me, I don’t like the concept of player first, program second, education 3rd, when it comes to anything kids and academic settings. I hope like crazy he gets his second ring because we definitely need it to happen. However, I’m ready to get back to a traditional way of operating. I played sports for most of my life, and I have always been taught the name on the back is secondary to the name on the front. That’s just in my blood especially with UK basketball and won’t change.

I think he started believing his own BS

 

[Cats192]

What posters don't realize is Cal is trying to make the team the best the team can be. If we're going to make a run in the postseason, Reed can't be our best player. If we're going to have success that posters on here want to have, then DJ and Edwards need to live up to the hype. Posters just see 2 or 3 game and want to rush to judgement for short-term success. Cal is trying to give DJ and Edwards a longer leash because we NEED them to improve, we NEED them to figure it out. Otherwise, we ain't going far

Spot on.

And it's November. This time of the year is when you can afford to give those guys more chances to figure it out. I completely understand why a coach would do what Cal is doing with DJ and Edwards.

Come January/February/March, if DJ/Edwards are strill struggling, we can't afford to put them out there. That would hurt the team. And I will criticize the hell out of Cal at that point.

I think a lot of people felt like Dontaie Allen should have been given more chances and wasn't. Dontaie wasn't good. You can give Dontaie all the leash in the world, and he's still not going to be good. He went to WKU--where minutes are easier to come by and the competition isn't as tough. He's averaging 8 points on 20 minutes a game. He's shooting 32% from 3.

Reed isn't Dontaie. Reed is good. Reed isn't being treated like Dontaie. Reed got 26 minutes the 4th game of his UK career. Dontaie's couldn't break 20 minutes in his final season at UK.

I don't fault Cal for how he played Dontaie. And I don't think it's any indication of what he's going to do with Reed. If Reed outperforms DJ all season, I believe Cal will eventually start Reed. Contrary to what's being said, he's done this in the past. Shai Gilgeous Alexander was better than Quade despite Quade being ranked higher. Shai eventually became the starter and star of the team. Quade eventually came in off the bench and later decided to transfer.

 

[Cawood86]

I'm a huge Reed fan, and my 5-year old son is right there with me. But if you think posters on here will treat him how they did Wagner/Edwards if Reed has a game where he shoots 1-9 with 4 TOs - you're crazy....

Some might, but I'm for UK winning. Reed will have bad games. Every player does. When he does, his minutes should be lower. Most common sense posters realize this.

I want Wagner and Edwards to be stars. That will only help the team.

 

[crestcat]

I'm a huge Reed fan, and my 5-year old son is right there with me. But if you think posters on here will treat him how they did Wagner/Edwards if Reed has a game where he shoots 1-9 with 4 TOs - you're crazy....

Are you trying to say fans have favorites?

 

[BradleyCrawford08]

I like the way he is being utilized right now. Come off the bench, give the offense a spark, play solid defense. 25-30 minutes per game is the ideal amount of time on the court for Reed IMO. As long as he’s getting the right amount of playing time and guys aren’t playing over him to the point where it hurts the team(like BJ Boston in 2021), it should be good.

 

[Cats192]

Some might, but I'm for UK winning. Reed will have bad games. Every player does. When he does, his minutes should be lower. Most common sense posters realize this.

I want Wagner and Edwards to be stars. That will only help the team.

Here's the thing.

I agree with your premise. I just don't think it's a game to game thing. Especially in November when we're only playing cupcakes.

If Reed plays poorly tonight, if Rob plays poorly tonight, I don't think we should lower their minutes. I think you've gotta give good players a chance to figure it out--whether it's DJ or Reed, Rob or Edwards. I don't think 4 games into a season, we have to go making drastic changes.

I think you need more time to see the trend. I think if DJ and Edwards continue to struggle, there's a point their minutes need to go down. It's just not on November 20th against St. Joe's.

Now, 11/28 vs Miami, we can't be letting kids figure it out. It's time to ball. And if DJ/Edwards aren't showing it the next couple of games, then Cal ultimately needs to shift more minutes to the others. We can't be letting them figure it out vs UNC.

NC Wilmington, Penn, Louisville, and Illinois State are probably fine to let guys figure things out.

 

[Ky_Bred_Cat]

Make DJ earn his minutes. Reed is certainly earning his. And I don't mean just based on practice. Tough love, not entitlement.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Here's the thing.

I agree with your premise. I just don't think it's a game to game thing. Especially in November when we're only playing cupcakes.

If Reed plays poorly tonight, if Rob plays poorly tonight, I don't think we should lower their minutes. I think you've gotta give good players a chance to figure it out--whether it's DJ or Reed, Rob or Edwards. I don't think 4 games into a season, we have to go making drastic changes.

I think you need more time to see the trend. I think if DJ and Edwards continue to struggle, there's a point their minutes need to go down. It's just not on November 20th against St. Joe's.

Now, 11/28 vs Miami, we can't be letting kids figure it out. It's time to ball. And if DJ/Edwards aren't showing it the next couple of games, then Cal ultimately needs to shift more minutes to the others. We can't be letting them figure it out vs UNC.

NC Wilmington, Penn, Louisville, and Illinois State are probably fine to let guys figure things out.

Exactly.

This goes for any player. If they have a bad game, they have a bad game. You cannot overreact. Players aren't robots.

I hear it so often. During a big game, X Player is having a bad first half we should sit him and I'm just like no that's not how this works. If it's one of your best players, you keep him in and you trust that he will turn it around.

 

[Cawood86]

Here's the thing.

I agree with your premise. I just don't think it's a game to game thing. Especially in November when we're only playing cupcakes.

If Reed plays poorly tonight, if Rob plays poorly tonight, I don't think we should lower their minutes. I think you've gotta give good players a chance to figure it out--whether it's DJ or Reed, Rob or Edwards. I don't think 4 games into a season, we have to go making drastic changes.

I think you need more time to see the trend. I think if DJ and Edwards continue to struggle, there's a point their minutes need to go down. It's just not on November 20th against St. Joe's.

Now, 11/28 vs Miami, we can't be letting kids figure it out. It's time to ball. And if DJ/Edwards aren't showing it the next couple of games, then Cal ultimately needs to shift more minutes to the others. We can't be letting them figure it out vs UNC.

NC Wilmington, Penn, Louisville, and Illinois State are probably fine to let guys figure things out.

I can agree with that premise. I think the main issue was in the KU game.

 

[Cats192]

Make DJ earn his minutes. Reed is certainly earning his. And I don't mean just based on practice. Tough love, not entitlement.

I guess what's the criteria for "earning minutes?"

The Kansas game was a bad game for DJ.

The other 3 games, he's had 13, 11, and 9 points. He's had 3 or more assists in each of those games. He's not shot well, but he's been productive. He's played good defense. I would say that he's earned some minutes.

Now, everyone keeps telling me we can't count the cupcakes. We can only count the Kansas game. That's fine. But then DJ has only had 1 game to show he deserves minutes. Can you seriously decide a kid doesn't deserve minutes based on ONE game?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Whether fairly or unfairly, the top rated prospect will always get playing time to prove they are a bust.
The lower rated prospect will always have to prove that they were rated too lowly.

This isn't a Cal thing. It's a college basketball thing. All bluebloods that recruit these top guys, it's the same thing.

Because on average, the highly rated guy is higher for a reason. That doesn't mean there aren't busts and that doesn't mean that a lower rated guy can't actually be the star tho. It's just that I think that is going to take a bit more than 4 games to determine here.

It's not even a "college basketball" thing, it's in any and every sport. I think there's some Kentucky fans who are probably only into Kentucky basketball, and maybe not into other sports. Which is perfectly fine. But then they sort of have this silo'd view of how Kentucky and Cal operate. When the stuff he does, is largely done everywhere.

I mean, how many times do we have to hear the complaints about injuries and not having every little detail? I mean the NFL team near by, the Bengals, just did this with Joe Burrow. Dude had a wrist injury and the organization didn't feel compelled to divulge details. But some think this is just a Cal thing.

Cowherd absolutely NAILED this topic, and it was just last week. First minute he explains it perfectly.

 

[crestcat]

I can agree with that premise. I think the main issue was in the KU game.

The cupcakes are the games for the Cal psycho bs, The Kansas type games are about winning. If somebody's having a bad day, sub them out, they'll live thru it. If it ain't about winning turn off the scoreboard.

 

[UKortho]

Hey, there was no one on this board that was more anti-BJ Boston getting all his minutes than me - BUT that came later in the season, not after a few games of struggling. Same with Askew, same with others.

But this roster pretty clearly needs DJ and Edwards to be really, really good. Actually, I think we just need one of them to be really, really good but we certainly need the other to be better than what we've seen so far.

IF IF IF Reed and Rob continuing playing like they are, Reeves continues to get some buckets, and we get a 7-footer back, IF Adou keeps developing and performing - I don't think you need both DJ and Edwards to live up to the hype, but certainly need one of them too.

I think that will happen (some strong development). I think this team has a very real chance of winning the SEC, and possibly a championship!