What are Reasonable and Possible Solutions to Reduce Shootings (Schools and Venues)
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The minute you "solve" gun violence in schools they will just move to other highly populated areas like malls, movie theaters (sound familiar?), college campuses or outside of schools (like bus loading zones).
Sorry, but this is likely not a solvable problem. I hate like hell that is the sad reality and this could happen to one of my 3 children, but what do you do? We will never be a scandanavian country. You take everyone's guns and everyone gets burglarized 4 times a month and the gangs run every city with more than 60 people.
And we have suggestions of reducing/eliminating the 1st and 2nd amendment in this thread? Wow. What a proposed solution.
funny how these discussions are being left to the unwashed masses that don't even understand the bill of rights.
Sorry, but this is likely not a solvable problem. I hate like hell that is the sad reality and this could happen to one of my 3 children, but what do you do? We will never be a scandanavian country. You take everyone's guns and everyone gets burglarized 4 times a month and the gangs run every city with more than 60 people.
And we have suggestions of reducing/eliminating the 1st and 2nd amendment in this thread? Wow. What a proposed solution.
funny how these discussions are being left to the unwashed masses that don't even understand the bill of rights.
Shotguns are actually the best home defense.You can't defend your home with a shotgun? You obviously don't know shit about shotguns.I hate to laugh, but damn....
1. "Chuh-chuck" usually scares away 99% of intruders who will shit down their leg as they flee.
2. Shooting in the dark with a bullet loaded firearm? Smart choice.
3. Bullets go through walls and hit loved ones. Buckshot? Not so much.
Technology, discipline and the sheer number of weapons and ammo has changed.
Anyone can bully and threaten today with no accountability. When I was a kid if I did either of these things to someone, I better be prepared for a fistfight. If my Dad caught wind of it and I didn't have a damn good excuse, he would be livid. My Dad was also in the 101st Airborne so he always had a gun hidden but unless I went hunting, I never saw one. Now they're everywhere.
I don't think guns are the root cause either, but reduced access by non-owners would make efforts more difficult imo. To me, the alternative killing methods you describe lack the up close & personal that I think is a big part of it, so they are not as desirable for the killers. People here keep talking what if this/that, but for some reason(s) guns are the preferred choice. I think it's close personal involvement.
I think it's obvious the preferred choice is the personal contact guns provide. And many more attacks with them than cars even with the way more obvious access to cars. And when cars/trucks are used, the victims most often random. Not so much with guns at schools. Guns elsewhere, yes random. But the topic is school shootings despite many here going off on various tangents.
But that’s not what other countries do. Other countries may not use guns, but use things like IEDs and suicide vests. Doesn’t get more up close personal than a suicide vest.
And the majority of the school shootings are young people with guns already in the homes. Usually their parents.
I believe shotguns are a great choice. They have a wide spread so there is no need for accuracy. With a pistol or rifle, the odds are high you are going to miss. Especially when fear and panic sit in. A shotgun, just let her rip. You don't really have to aim.
An ex cop once told me that one of the best things for home defense is a starter pistol. When you hear someone break in, fire it. It sounds like a real gun and 99% will run. No chance of someone getting injured with it.
I’m sure some will want real lead to sling at the 1% bad guys that don’t run and that is fine.
I’m sure some will want real lead to sling at the 1% bad guys that don’t run and that is fine.
I take it you have no interest in holding whatever form of parenting authority accountable to an equal felony extent when that parent is raising the offending juvenile in govt. housing. This is a far more frequent scenario than school shootings involving middle class juveniles from home owning families. The former is most certainly to vote Democrat. The latter, not as likely.
Maybe you can answer this question then: why do people who live in the projects love guns so much? Are these not gun clinging Democrats? I swear, if country music glorified the use of firearms as much as gansta rap does, or just a tiny iota as much, you libs would be more tormented than Hanibal Lecter was by Dr. Chilton's TV evangelists.
Incarceration rate has increased by 500% since then.
If you quoted more of the article, murder by firearms has increased from 60% to a record high 73%.
A
anon_l8pbkn96tg3j6
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I don't think this is a gun problem, nor do I think it is so much a person problem. I believe Columbine, the constant coverage, and all of the shootings and coverage that followed broke the illusion that schools are safe. The truth is that there is not enough law enforcement to preempt incidents. The very best they can do is respond while something is in progress and limit the damage. A temporary solution to get the illusion back might be an actual false flag where the FBI stops an obvious plot with the help of Johnny from 9th grade algebra class.
The crime rate normally shadows the unemployment rate. The worse the economy the higher the number of crimes. I clearly remember 1980 and the hyperinflation, unemployment, 14% mortgage rates and 20% car loan rates.
If my wife can't survive me mag dumping my Kalashnikov in the house she doesn't deserve to be married to me anyway
Besides, I would hope your loved ones are behind you......or at least you should know where they are....
It didn't spike in 2008.
According to the guys at Freakanomics, it started going down ~18 years after abortions became legal.
Then it must be working. We got some of the killers off of the street. Hurray for law enforcement.Incarceration rate has increased by 500% since then.
If you quoted more of the article, murder by firearms has increased from 60% to a record high 73%.
Are there any other statistics that increased exponentially over that century that would correlate with this rise?Incarceration rate has increased by 500% since then.
If you quoted more of the article, murder by firearms has increased from 60% to a record high 73%.
From bureau of justice and statistics, crime rates appear to have peaked in 1980
But look at your chart. 1990 is barely lower than 1980, and there was a rise to get to 1990 after a small drop in the 80's. 1990, which is 17 years after abortion became legal, is when it really started dropping.
So if the base number of murders in 1980 was X with 60% by firearms, or 0.6X, and the total number of murders in 2014 was X - 0.48X = 0.52X & the percent by firearns is 73% of that, then the number by firearms in 2014 was 0.73 x 0.52X = 0.38X.Incarceration rate has increased by 500% since then.
If you quoted more of the article, murder by firearms has increased from 60% to a record high 73%.
Net, murders by firearms is down (0.60X-0.38X)/0.60X = .22/.60 = -36% despite the large increase in population since 1980.
In my opinion the "war" on drugs and the current drug epidemic in the US has something to do with in. You getting non-violent offenders with longer minimum sentencing and any potential violent gang bangers,
It's really sad that we have so many in the system and it's gotten to be a big business keeping people jailed. Like 80 Billion a year and up in estimated costs.
"In 1980, about 41,000 people were incarcerated for drug crimes, according to the Sentencing Project. In 2014, that number was about 488,400 — a 1,000 percent increase."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...r/how-war-drugs-affected-incarceration-rates/
Also, the abatement of lead from the environment, particularly the move from leaded to unleaded gasoline, is often cited as another reason for the decline in violent crime rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-crime_hypothesis
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/01/new-evidence-that-lead-exposure-increases-crime/
That's because guns aren't as easily obtainable "there" as here in most of your unidentified countries..
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Exactly. And that's why it should be a felony for the parents imo if the guns aren't fully secured.
And this is why it should be felony on the father at Santa Fe for being so irresponsible:
"Authorities have charged Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, a Santa Fe High School student, with capital murder in the May 18 attack that killed eight students and two substitute teachers. Investigators said Pagourtzis used a shotgun and pistol belonging to his father that had been kept in a closet.
Texas law states that guns can't be made accessible to minors, with exceptions such as hunting or when under parental supervision. Parents can be charged with a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail and $4,000 in fines if the child fires a weapon and causes serious injury or death."
How in the h is putting guns in a closet resposnible??
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/26/texas-school-shooting-victims-family-sue-suspects-parents.html
"Authorities have charged Dimitrios Pagourtzis, 17, a Santa Fe High School student, with capital murder in the May 18 attack that killed eight students and two substitute teachers. Investigators said Pagourtzis used a shotgun and pistol belonging to his father that had been kept in a closet.
Texas law states that guns can't be made accessible to minors, with exceptions such as hunting or when under parental supervision. Parents can be charged with a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail and $4,000 in fines if the child fires a weapon and causes serious injury or death."
How in the h is putting guns in a closet resposnible??
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/26/texas-school-shooting-victims-family-sue-suspects-parents.html
1. Yes, parents living anywhere should be held accountable if they are the unsecured source of the guns. I'll contend that I don't believe kids shooting each other up get their weapons from their parents. 2. I don't have any data on why or if people living in projects have more guns. Please provide.
Hire more former defensive linemen as teachers....
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/us/indiana-school-shooting-teacher/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/us/indiana-school-shooting-teacher/index.html
Most of these places have AKs laying around on coffee tables. This stance doesn’t support.
It's a multifaceted issue.
Societal values are part of it.
Family values/makeup is part of it.
Mental Health is part of it.
White Rage is part of it.
And the access to and high concentration of guns is part of it .
First, you gotta get special interest groups like the NRA out of public policy. The NRA backs largely conservative politicians in the south that advocate for southern states not reporting to NCIC, the national database in the name of states rights and privacy. That's bs. NRA has also funded things like the Dickey Amendment that won't let the CDC stusy gun crime or mass shootings. That's the first step IMO. Study the hell out of this from absolutely every angle.
I'm not for a ban because it'd be hard to execute. But I think it should be harder than hell to get an AR-15 or any high coacity magazine. I think the process in which we buy guns need to be made more uniform. Get rid of gun shows. Make every state report to national database. Mandatory wait times to purchase. Enhance screening techniques.
We also need to develop ways to identify much earlier mental health issues and address them adequately.
The school security aspect is tricky. Metal detectors are expensive and require personnel to work. Also, if it's at a single point you need to figure out a way to not have large backups waiting to get in school. Those kids are sitting ducks. Maybe stagger start times by grade. Still, a major issue is funding for these things. Most school districts don't have money for the resources and supplies they need now. Our governor has cut funding for public schools drastically and in many poorer areas as well as rural people.flip their shit when you mention raising taxes. Again, where does the money come from?
I also think we need to get real with what the 2nd amendment really is for. When examined contextually and gramatically, it is very evident it is not in existence so any Joe can own whatever gun they see fit. From.a contextual point when written our founding fathers didn't believe in having a mikitart the way we do today. They wanted people to have a right to be armed in individual states to be able to form a militia for protection in case the UK came back for more. From a grammatical standpoint the amendment reads as follows:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State ", the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
1st- the very first comma is not needed and should be removed.
2nd- one must identify the root phrase or subject which is "the right of the people to bear arms".
3rd- When one identifies the root phrase it becomes very evident that what preceeds it is a prefatory clause to indicate purpose ---"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State". So the amendment is essentially saying when the right to bear arms is needed to form a well regulated militia for the security of a free state, it shall not be infringed....which is a far cry from.sayijg every tom, dick and Harry that wants to own an AR-15 has a right to do so. Heller and McDonald have discussed this thoroughly and agree with what I have stated. Any other interpretation of this amendment is just erroneous.
I just want to do something, because changing absolutely nothing sure as hell isn't working and we are far too developed of a Nation to accept this as a necessary evil just so some folks and keep their guns. Gun control has worked in places like Australia, the UK and Japan. Study them, study mass shootings and gun crime here and then draft policy.
What crack me up with conservatives is the lack of intellectual consistency. When it's abortion they think the presence of more strict laws will deter and unwanted behavior/action. When it's guns and mass shootings the presence of more laws won't deter anything. That is simply intellectually dishonest and inconsistent reasoning.
Societal values are part of it.
Family values/makeup is part of it.
Mental Health is part of it.
White Rage is part of it.
And the access to and high concentration of guns is part of it .
First, you gotta get special interest groups like the NRA out of public policy. The NRA backs largely conservative politicians in the south that advocate for southern states not reporting to NCIC, the national database in the name of states rights and privacy. That's bs. NRA has also funded things like the Dickey Amendment that won't let the CDC stusy gun crime or mass shootings. That's the first step IMO. Study the hell out of this from absolutely every angle.
I'm not for a ban because it'd be hard to execute. But I think it should be harder than hell to get an AR-15 or any high coacity magazine. I think the process in which we buy guns need to be made more uniform. Get rid of gun shows. Make every state report to national database. Mandatory wait times to purchase. Enhance screening techniques.
We also need to develop ways to identify much earlier mental health issues and address them adequately.
The school security aspect is tricky. Metal detectors are expensive and require personnel to work. Also, if it's at a single point you need to figure out a way to not have large backups waiting to get in school. Those kids are sitting ducks. Maybe stagger start times by grade. Still, a major issue is funding for these things. Most school districts don't have money for the resources and supplies they need now. Our governor has cut funding for public schools drastically and in many poorer areas as well as rural people.flip their shit when you mention raising taxes. Again, where does the money come from?
I also think we need to get real with what the 2nd amendment really is for. When examined contextually and gramatically, it is very evident it is not in existence so any Joe can own whatever gun they see fit. From.a contextual point when written our founding fathers didn't believe in having a mikitart the way we do today. They wanted people to have a right to be armed in individual states to be able to form a militia for protection in case the UK came back for more. From a grammatical standpoint the amendment reads as follows:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State ", the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
1st- the very first comma is not needed and should be removed.
2nd- one must identify the root phrase or subject which is "the right of the people to bear arms".
3rd- When one identifies the root phrase it becomes very evident that what preceeds it is a prefatory clause to indicate purpose ---"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State". So the amendment is essentially saying when the right to bear arms is needed to form a well regulated militia for the security of a free state, it shall not be infringed....which is a far cry from.sayijg every tom, dick and Harry that wants to own an AR-15 has a right to do so. Heller and McDonald have discussed this thoroughly and agree with what I have stated. Any other interpretation of this amendment is just erroneous.
I just want to do something, because changing absolutely nothing sure as hell isn't working and we are far too developed of a Nation to accept this as a necessary evil just so some folks and keep their guns. Gun control has worked in places like Australia, the UK and Japan. Study them, study mass shootings and gun crime here and then draft policy.
What crack me up with conservatives is the lack of intellectual consistency. When it's abortion they think the presence of more strict laws will deter and unwanted behavior/action. When it's guns and mass shootings the presence of more laws won't deter anything. That is simply intellectually dishonest and inconsistent reasoning.
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Was there ever a mass school shooting in a private Christian school?
It would be nice if Americans were sympathetic to the 9-15 teenage lives lost every weekend due to something other than guns. Do you know what that something is.
Hint....It kills 5000 teens annually.
It would be nice if Americans were sympathetic to the 9-15 teenage lives lost every weekend due to something other than guns. Do you know what that something is.
Hint....It kills 5000 teens annually.
Bigbluesean post a lot of scrap for nothing. As soon as I read white rage I quit reading. Biased argument without real substence.
As soon as you inject the race card, you lose all credibility. Also, your argument on abortion is ignorant. Two completely different situations. Babies cannot defend themselves, we can with smart decisions defend ourselves/children.
As soon as you inject the race card, you lose all credibility. Also, your argument on abortion is ignorant. Two completely different situations. Babies cannot defend themselves, we can with smart decisions defend ourselves/children.
Doing time for drugs or whatever is a myth. It ain’t 1980. Nobody does real jail time now. Read the papers.
Hell a dude broke into a home and murdered a child in gd Versailles KY and is eligible for parole in 10 fn years!
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