Hold my beer...
When they took prayer out of school's this is the result!!
What are Reasonable and Possible Solutions to Reduce Shootings (Schools and Venues)
- Thread starter College#19
- Start date
When they took prayer out of school's this is the result!!
This is very important when you look at polling what Dems prefer and hear the rhetoric from their leaders. 50% of that side wants pistols banned other than law enforcement.
The point you are missing is that its home defense. HOME. Not just man of the house defense when he is home.
Lets say for instance, you are out of town on business for a 3-4 days. Do you want your wife to have to find a key, or remember a combination, or hope that the fingerprint lock works in the few seconds after an intruder comes in? Congratulations on never being in a panic/dangerous situation, but trust me, it doesn't work that way. What about that 16 year old daughter who is an honor student and home alone for some reason or another? Or even your 17 year old honor student son who is watching the 5 year old while mom is at the grocery for 2 hours? Do you really want to leave their fate in the hands of that monster that kicked the door in?
How many hoops would you want your family to jump through to be able to save themselves from that worst case scenario before its too late? Sorry but if you cannot trust your kid, or trust your own judgement of your kid, or trust that you are involved enough to see changes in said kids attitude, then we have already lost as a society. I would rather give my family a fighting chance than to limit their ability to defend themselves because of the astronomical chance that one of my kids might possibly be bullied or disturbed enough to shoot up a school.
Would I change that way of thinking if it meant I'd go to jail if my 16 year old used one of my guns to kill someone? I don't think so. One is a definite clear and present danger possibility, the other is a speculation scare tactic.
Also, If my bullied kid took our Expedition and drove it through the football field running over bullying players while they practice, should I be held responsible because he accessed my car keys? Will car keys be the next thing to have to keep locked in a safe? What about kitchen knives? What if he takes one of my Cuisinart steak knives to school and cuts a throat? Should they have been under lock and key?
Hell I say you arm and train a handful of teachers at each school before you jail someone who didn't have anything to do with the crime.
I didn't read the five pages of posts before I wrote this, so it's probably already been said. But we'll never stop gun violence, unless you confiscate every last gun. We know that's never going to happen. So we must harden the school's defense. We can make federal buildings and airports relatively safe. We should be able to make schools safe.
No gun laws on the books could have stopped the Houston shooting. Everybody knows that. Where's the debate? It was his parents' fault for not detecting the signs, and the school's fault for not providing proper defense.
No gun laws on the books could have stopped the Houston shooting. Everybody knows that. Where's the debate? It was his parents' fault for not detecting the signs, and the school's fault for not providing proper defense.
11 in the house in various different rooms. Psychopath? No, prepared. Your response is the normal liberal response and why this issue will probably never get resolved. Psychopaths would be preparing to use them on unsuspecting innocent people. I will only use them on unsuspecting evil people who try to break in or attack my family while out. (concealed carry)
You sleep with a loaded pistol under your pillow. Sorry bud. You have extreme paranoia. You are a mental case.
when someone breaks into your house, calling 911 is waste of both yours and the cops time. you have a choice, Warrior has his. both are legal under our constitution. he isn't breaking any laws so why does it matter to you how he lives his life? you liberals are the most judge mental racist groups destroying this country. I'm sure you're one of those ready to jump all over cops every time some video goes viral, yet you want/need them for your very own protection. hypocrites
I bet he has more success in case of a break in with the gun under his pillow than you do with the dildo under yours.
You're right about that. When they tried this before they had to keep amending it. There is a House Bill right now that has been written and it is extremely lengthy and makes your eyes gloss over to try to figure it out. I can't imagine law enforcement having to deal with something so complex.
I'm not an expert on fire arms but I know the muzzle velocity of the AR-15 is so extremely high that it literally rips human flesh apart. I think that should be one factor they look at. I'm sure you know a lot more about that.
As others have stated, we have a societal problem, not a gun problem. No parent is perfect, (I know I'm not), but talking to your child about issues that effect them, or could effect them; teaching them the value of human life; making them understand it's not OK to bully another person, and to stand up to bullies, etc, etc, etc, are all examples of common sense, logical things to ensure your child understands the world in which they live.
I know a lot of folks want to blame violent video games for kids not valuing human life, but I don't buy that. How many millions of kids play these games, yet lead perfectly normal, violence free lives? No, it begins and ends in the home, IMO, and that makes some people uneasy because they simply don't want to take the time to talk to their kid, to really talk to them. Until we as a nation address the problem of parents not wanting to actually parent, this will not get any better.
As to actual school safety, I've felt for some time we really only have a few good options, and IMO the best one I've learned of is hiring fully trained armed guards for all public schools, every one. A good place to start to look for these people would be retired police officers and retired military. While we wouldn't be able to staff all public schools from this pool alone, it would be a good starting point. From there, you could then begin an exhaustive interview/background investigation into each applicant and then after initial training, have mandated refresher training during the summers.
How to pay for it? Easy, everyone would have to pay more in taxes, but for myself I would vote for that in a minute, (and I'm poor by the Paddock standards.
)
Of course, it would be even better if we could force our government to stop "pork" spending, and use that $$ for school officers/safety, but I digress.
Larger schools would of course require more officers, but I see no other way to help ensure our children's safety while on school property. Extreme problems call for extreme measures, and this is, without question, an extreme problem that we'd best get to work on now. Our children's lives are literally on the line.
Btw, I've heard some argue to arm teachers, but to this I say no. Let teachers teach, and bring in highly trained officers carrying firearms to protect the entire campus. It might not stop every lunatic, but it will stop a lot of them; just knowing they will have to face someone who WILL shoot back will be a big deterrent.
I'm sick of this becoming a political issue when children's lives are at stake. Liberals trying their damnedest to take away our RIGHT to defend ourselves is the most vile of the lot. We must all unite like never before and SHOW our children that we care about them, and we must begin now.
I know a lot of folks want to blame violent video games for kids not valuing human life, but I don't buy that. How many millions of kids play these games, yet lead perfectly normal, violence free lives? No, it begins and ends in the home, IMO, and that makes some people uneasy because they simply don't want to take the time to talk to their kid, to really talk to them. Until we as a nation address the problem of parents not wanting to actually parent, this will not get any better.
As to actual school safety, I've felt for some time we really only have a few good options, and IMO the best one I've learned of is hiring fully trained armed guards for all public schools, every one. A good place to start to look for these people would be retired police officers and retired military. While we wouldn't be able to staff all public schools from this pool alone, it would be a good starting point. From there, you could then begin an exhaustive interview/background investigation into each applicant and then after initial training, have mandated refresher training during the summers.
How to pay for it? Easy, everyone would have to pay more in taxes, but for myself I would vote for that in a minute, (and I'm poor by the Paddock standards.
)Of course, it would be even better if we could force our government to stop "pork" spending, and use that $$ for school officers/safety, but I digress.
Larger schools would of course require more officers, but I see no other way to help ensure our children's safety while on school property. Extreme problems call for extreme measures, and this is, without question, an extreme problem that we'd best get to work on now. Our children's lives are literally on the line.
Btw, I've heard some argue to arm teachers, but to this I say no. Let teachers teach, and bring in highly trained officers carrying firearms to protect the entire campus. It might not stop every lunatic, but it will stop a lot of them; just knowing they will have to face someone who WILL shoot back will be a big deterrent.
I'm sick of this becoming a political issue when children's lives are at stake. Liberals trying their damnedest to take away our RIGHT to defend ourselves is the most vile of the lot. We must all unite like never before and SHOW our children that we care about them, and we must begin now.
Moreover it is the bullet that does the tearing because when it hits if it hits something hard (bone) it tumbles but, that has nothing to do with the assault weapon argument. Hollow points from pistols can do just as much damage.
Plus, that does not make me a psychopath. It is that line of thinking that helped Hillary lose the election. We deplorable's and psycho's sure have a lot of company.
I wonder which gun law they did away with that caused this increase in such a short amount of time.I would be interested in seeing the Fox article when it's published to see where they got their data, but the statement the school shootings are rare and are declining flys in the face of FBI data:
A recent FBI report on “active shooters” from 2000 to 2015 found that the number of incidents more than doubled from the first to the second half of the period. Four of the five deadliest shootings in American history happened in the past five years, and 2017 already far exceeds any previous year for the number of casualties.
It is interesting, however, that schools have been the second-highest risk location.
LINK
You get ONE guess who'd fight to the death to prevent those studies from happening.....and ridicule the very idea of it.
Let my 18 yr old get all hopped up on smack and see if you can try to take his AR 15. I double f***** dog dare you.
You know, nothing I've said says these people can't have their own weapons or access to yours. They can have their own keys or combinations for their own weapons. And nothing says they can't control their own unlocked up weapons. Nothing says they can't use these unlocked weapons against intruders. I mean they can have their own concealed carry permits.
Cars aren't designed as weapons. Guns are. I don't recall the extremely hypothetical last instance of children taking cars to run over people. We're talking items designed as weapons, not cars. Why bring them up?
Wake up. As is, you're off the rails.
BTW, how are you going to get a car in a classroom to run over people?
I know. Inevitably those studies will argue for some form of gun legislation.
Actually, it goes on the night stand when in bed but, not a mental case. If I were, you would probably have to classify about half of the nation mental. Many people sleep with a gun very close to them at night. I spent many a night with my rifle in my sleeping bag or right next to me in the military. Very natural thing to do with people who use guns for their job. Once again your attitude towards it is what makes a civil conversation about guns in this country impossible. The left are the mental ones. We have had weapons in this country since the beginning and it is only in recent years has it been a problem. The left has been the problem because of the lack of discipline and morals you are not displaying. But, if I am mental in your world, I am good with that. Perhaps it keeps the real crazies away.
Not what you said.
You are a weird gun nut with a paranoid world view.
Do you lock your shotgun up every morning after you survive the night?
If he is crazy, so am I. So watch your step mister, crazy people are very unpredictable.
Not really.
Those opposed to banning guns have actually given many suggestions. Hell, they even instituted some things at parkland. Did you see the meltdown and claims of civil rights being trampled on because of... gasp... clear backpacks?
Suggesting banning guns is a non starter and Those opposed to banning guns have given numerous ideas to help. There is no solution that will end it..but qe can greatly reduce it.. veterans volunteering in exchange for reduced taxes, arming teachers, reworking the entry points, dress codes, clear backpacks.. we also dont need kids switching classes 8 times a day.
Ive yet to see one reasonable idea from someone who says the nra are terrorists. Not one.
Who do you expect to be manning those tanks and armored vehicles if the government goes rogue and attacks the citizens?
A man suffering from mental illness just walked out of a family lunch at a restaurant, after church. Got in the suv..and tammed the restaurant killing two. They thought he was using the restroom.
He wont see a guilty murder conviction.. but the ones who survived should?
Nope, 2 big dogs and a Sharpei mix have free reign of the house when gone. 2 of them (the big ones) don't like anyone but us. Not paranoid at all, sleep very well in fact. World view is one from a stand point of some one who has been around it a bit and understand what is going on out there. You get your news from those who want to control your thoughts and tell you everyone is good except those who pay the bills in this country. But, I am glad there are people like you around, it will help continue the winning going on right now. Most see you and the other liberals for what you are.
Edit for clarity: .45 under pillow during day put on night stand when sleeping. Shotgun behind drapes next to bed.
A good portion of the military would support us in the event of a gun grab if people stood up. Most I know who have been in the military own several guns and have them positioned in the house so they can get them easily when needed. Oh and by the way these are Americans from every racial background too. I know a Mexican American who practically has an armory in his house. He has me beat by a mile with weapons and ammo.
Most of these liberals have no clue about real world issues, they have safe rooms to go and cry into when they need them.
I actually agree with this. Don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to go out and buy a nuclear weapon, fully loaded fighter jet, etc. Save your money. Go out and buy one.
Also, do you understand how stupid it is to say "slippery slope argument is stupid" when we are dealing with a common law legal system and talking about an Amendment that says the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed". You want to infringe on a right that says it "shall not be infringed, but "uh duh it's a logical fallacy" to point out your desire to infringe on that right won't stop until you've eliminated it. We aren't going to let you set incremental precedent to chip away at "SHALL NOT" by claiming we can't point to your true motivations because muh logical fallacy.
So no, it's not a logical fallacy to point out you loony tunes whackos want to ban guns, but are just hiding your true motivations until you've made incremental progress. We've seen it time and time again with your expansions of government.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
To your initial question, why would I have any idea whether the primary owner has been held accountable? But if not, perhaps there's no law that covers the issue - the reason I asked my original question. Your next to paragraphs are racial rants. Carry on. What makes you think those kids committing all those crimes you describe got their weapons from home?
You would have had that idea because you would have came up with it, just like you came up with the idea of holding families of middle class children accountable for their version of violent crime. But you don't come up with the idea that families of violent juveniles from govt. housing should be held so accountable because you do not care about their preferred victims, which is primarily other poor minorities. This makes you racist. The only time you sense the need to impose a form of strict accountability in this way is when victims are created less often, by offenders who society does not accept as such, and most always includes victims you think deserves society's preferred protection. In other words, as long as the body count and the juvenile killers stay in the hood you have no voice.
Why have to drive into the class room.
My son's high school has a student population of over 2000.
Hit them outside while they are lining up for the metal detector.
The "what are your lil guns gonna do against tanks and drones??? HUH?!!" argument is so stupid. Our government has been systematically reducing the power of the people for a long time now, they will not have to use any force to make us comply. We just keeping handing over our rights and liberties on a silver fn platter because they tell us it's the smart and right thing to do. It's concerning as hell.
Muzzle Velocity isn't really the issue- muzzle energy is (velocity AND mass of the round fired.) Because the .223/5.56 is such a small bullet (it's about the same size as a .22), it may come out of the muzzle quickly, but it doesn't impact with particularly high force.
A 'standard' .223 with 55 grains has a muzzle energy of about 1282 ft lb.
A typical .30-30 deer round (which began life in the military in the 1800s) comes out of the muzzle slower, but is so much larger its muzzle energy is 1900-2000 ft lbs depending on the load.
The typical .30-06 deer round (also a former military round, carried in both world wars) has a muzzle energy of nearly 3000 ft lbs.
A .223/5.56 is not a particularly heavy or dangerous round in and of itself. It has a fairly flat trajectory, which the military likes. It has minimal recoil due to its size. It's very small and lightweight (meaning it's easier to lug around extra ammo) as well. But it ultimately is going to be replaced by the military- they're already experimenting with 7.62 and other calibers BECAUSE it's not as powerful as that used by many battlefield opponents carrying AK47s or variants. It's an intermediate round, not a large one, and not a long-range one.
1,600 sixteen to nineteen year-olds were shot and killed in 2016. Another 942 committed suicide with guns. Using political capital to reduce "mass school shootings" (several at tops per year) seems to be a miss.
Why not try to cut the 1,600 number down to 800, and the 942 down to 450, as opposed to the ~25 down to 12.5?
Why not try to cut the 1,600 number down to 800, and the 942 down to 450, as opposed to the ~25 down to 12.5?
^I joke above, but there is a point here.
I don't think the main issue is not having firearm control, firearm safety, metal detectors, armed guards, etc. It's a lack of upbringing coupled with a myriad of social issues.
For example, let's say your daughter needs new brakes on her car every couple yrs. What do you do? Keep buying pads? Buy her more expensive ones that don't wear out as much? Buy her a new car that might be better on brakes? Or do you teach her not to abuse the brakes as much?
Most of these shooters are kids who have single parents, have easy access to weaponry, are social outcasts, are bullied in some ways, struggle in school, have been labeled with psychological issues (which in turn puts them on psych drugs)......or any combination therein. The kids who are shooting are not the Beaver Cleaver types who's issues are small potatoes.
Throw in some social issues: like over-medicating psych issues, social media (bullying and access to harmful websites.....etc....
I don't think the main issue is not having firearm control, firearm safety, metal detectors, armed guards, etc. It's a lack of upbringing coupled with a myriad of social issues.
For example, let's say your daughter needs new brakes on her car every couple yrs. What do you do? Keep buying pads? Buy her more expensive ones that don't wear out as much? Buy her a new car that might be better on brakes? Or do you teach her not to abuse the brakes as much?
Most of these shooters are kids who have single parents, have easy access to weaponry, are social outcasts, are bullied in some ways, struggle in school, have been labeled with psychological issues (which in turn puts them on psych drugs)......or any combination therein. The kids who are shooting are not the Beaver Cleaver types who's issues are small potatoes.
Throw in some social issues: like over-medicating psych issues, social media (bullying and access to harmful websites.....etc....
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