What a great 30 for 30 holy hell. That had my attention the entire 2 hours and it was a real tear jerker as well.
Watching the Bobby Knight 30 for 30 right now.
- Thread starter Robcatt24
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Knight was such an arrogant pr!@{. If he wouldn’t have kept trashing Reed, it may have just went away. Watching the impact it had on Neil Reed was sad. To have your teammates know what happened and to lie about it had to take a toll on Reed. What great character guys Knight had there. Knight is a sad sad human being.
I didn't see it, but I'm guessing they didn't ask Coach K about his mentor?
Why can't we get any good ESPN specials and such about us? 
They make such a big deal about Michigan's Fake Five, why not do a special about the REAL Fab Five ('48 Cats)? Or how about our inspiring, fascinating story of the 1992 Unforgettables? That would've been awesome if they had been honored in someway back in 2017 for their 25th anniversary but so far as I know I don't think they got any tributes at all.
As much as Dick Vitale may have a "Duke Vitale" or "ACC Vitale" rep, he at least has shown us plenty of love...I'm just not so sure about in terms of ESPN specials.
They make such a big deal about Michigan's Fake Five, why not do a special about the REAL Fab Five ('48 Cats)? Or how about our inspiring, fascinating story of the 1992 Unforgettables? That would've been awesome if they had been honored in someway back in 2017 for their 25th anniversary but so far as I know I don't think they got any tributes at all. As much as Dick Vitale may have a "Duke Vitale" or "ACC Vitale" rep, he at least has shown us plenty of love...I'm just not so sure about in terms of ESPN specials.
In my opinion the IU fanbase as a whole came off worse than Knight. Its a close call. But the hero worship, legit death threats (not the the nonsense that ref called death threats), mobs at the presidents house, death threats against Reed, death threats against professors, death threats against Kent Harvey....
That’s why I say we should never ever ever ever schedule IU again. Those fans are vile and reprehensible. We should avoid them like the plague.
That’s why I say we should never ever ever ever schedule IU again. Those fans are vile and reprehensible. We should avoid them like the plague.
Horrible person, but not shocked by anything i watched.
Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
If we get one or will be over the point shaving scandal in the 50s or Kentucky’s shame. I agree the Unforgettables would be a really good one, but they’d probably be a segment at the end of the Kentucky’s shame story.Why can't we get any good ESPN specials and such about us?
As much as Dick Vitale may have a "Duke Vitale" or "ACC Vitale" rep, he at least has shown us plenty of love...I'm just not so sure about in terms of ESPN specials.
I know you’re lurking IU fan: I’ve always said it says a lot acout your fan base the way you worshipped and defended him (and still do)
Says a lot. Now is anyone surprised about the way they acted in 2011?
Says a lot. Now is anyone surprised about the way they acted in 2011?
The part at the end where he hoped all the IU admin would die. Good grief. What an angry bitter old man. Shameful that some hold him high regard still to this day knowing all of this.
His accomplishments should be removed.
His accomplishments should be removed.
I'm not defending BK over the top actions at all but I will defend the fans there a bit.
We all saw Penn St fans protesting the firing of Paterno - a man who hid a known child molester.
And just let someone come on here and talk about Adolph Rupp supporting segregation. Fans lose perspective. Duke gets the top 3 recruits, they must be cheating, we get the #1 class 3 years in a row its because we have something no one else does....its just a natural tendency to assume the best for your school or coach.
As Mojocat said, it was a different time. Alot of us old timers like to talk about coddling kids today and them not being tough enough to face the challenges in the world. No one would ever say that about kids who stuck it out with Bobby Knight
We all saw Penn St fans protesting the firing of Paterno - a man who hid a known child molester.
And just let someone come on here and talk about Adolph Rupp supporting segregation. Fans lose perspective. Duke gets the top 3 recruits, they must be cheating, we get the #1 class 3 years in a row its because we have something no one else does....its just a natural tendency to assume the best for your school or coach.
As Mojocat said, it was a different time. Alot of us old timers like to talk about coddling kids today and them not being tough enough to face the challenges in the world. No one would ever say that about kids who stuck it out with Bobby Knight
To me Knights behavior was appalling but the Universities was just as bad. But what gets me is how childish and arrogant Knight still is.
Can’t believe how ball less Indiana administration was. There is no other place in the world that would have been tolerated. Jason Collier and Neil Reed are both dead now, but that old bastard Knight is still alive
I think there were a few places it would have been tolerated. To be honest, I think it would have been tolerated and pushed aside at IU except that Knight had been on the downslide of his coaching career for a few years already, If this was late 70's/Mid 80's Knight in his prime, there would not have been a zero tolerance policy. At the time of his firing they were 10 years removed from a final four and had not advanced past the second round for several years.
I think many of you are looking at this thru the prism of 2018, not the time it happened.
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I am in no way defending BK.......in my day if you wasn't getting reamed, cussed and ran......you wasn't playing......coaches got in kids faces and screamed.....football coaches used more colorful language as a rule........everyone has a tendency to judge the past by today's norms...........can't do it......the only way that works is if every thing stays the same.......kids today are not exposed to that kind of handling......my old man was an ex drill Sgt.......that is how I was raised......It worked for me although I didn't think so at the time......I finally realized my name wasn't dumb ass when I started first grade.......
Rupp never supported segregation. The only reason Rupp did not have a black player until 1971 (his first formal scholarship offer was in 1964) was that (to quote the Nixon movie) the system simply would not let him integrate.
you're illustrating my point - You'd have no trouble finding an Indiana fan who said that Knight didn't choke Reed.
Can't believe no iu fan hasn't chimed in with "He was just misunderstood".
My late father-in-law was the coach for the shooting teams in the Pan American games that were held in Puerto Rico. The one where Knight was arrested and deported. He was never a college basketball fan but he absolutely despise that man. He felt he embarrassed the entire US contingent. That has stuck with me all these decades.
Just echoing the same sentiments. I cannot stand BK and never will. I grew up in the 70s when UK and IU was competitive to a level of disdain that is not matched today. Not even by UK and UL imo.
I loathe BK and I loathe IU. Lou Henson was right when he said Knight is a classic bully. What he has said and what he has done is simply trash. He's not old school. He's not a tough drill master. He's not misunderstood. He's a sad existence of a human being who feels so inadequate about themselves that he must belittle, bully, threaten and intimidate others just to survive and exist. What a true piece of trash human and piece of trash program.
I loathe BK and I loathe IU. Lou Henson was right when he said Knight is a classic bully. What he has said and what he has done is simply trash. He's not old school. He's not a tough drill master. He's not misunderstood. He's a sad existence of a human being who feels so inadequate about themselves that he must belittle, bully, threaten and intimidate others just to survive and exist. What a true piece of trash human and piece of trash program.
I remember in the mid 90s a bunch of coworkers and I saying "he's going to go out like Woody Hayes". He pretty much did.
Can't believe so many people tied to that story have passed on. God I feel old.
Can't believe so many people tied to that story have passed on. God I feel old.
Uuh no. There’s not only a credible complaint that Knight choked Reed but video evidence to support it to go with a long documented history of Knight having outbursts which included physical altercations.
The evidence around Rupp demonstrates that he actually took many steps toward integration during times when most of his colleagues (including some who were later lauded as racial pioneers) wouldn’t. This evidence goes as far back as the 1920’s BTW.
There’s no credible evidence that Rupp ever supported segregation. Those who push that theory are generally relying on incomplete and/or inaccurate information and are doing so out of ignorance or an agenda.
Your attempt to analogize the two is a poor one.
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I had problems with the documentary.
And I hate Knight. He's the worst. But the doc was...strange. To put together a film where the documentarian sort of praises his own work is an unusual choice, and I kept wishing that we just got the story. Anytime the filmmaker entered the frame I got annoyed.
But as for the over-arching story itself, it's fascinating and terrible. I hope we've finally moved on from the coach-as-old-school-bully era, but there are surely those guys still out there.
And I hate Knight. He's the worst. But the doc was...strange. To put together a film where the documentarian sort of praises his own work is an unusual choice, and I kept wishing that we just got the story. Anytime the filmmaker entered the frame I got annoyed.
But as for the over-arching story itself, it's fascinating and terrible. I hope we've finally moved on from the coach-as-old-school-bully era, but there are surely those guys still out there.
actually I think its working out very well. My analogy is about attacking a coach and how fans will line up to defend him. I didn't say Rupp was guilty of anything, I said watch what happens when someone talks about Rupp supporting segregation. More importantly here Rupp wasn't even attacked, the thread isn't about him, I simply mentioned the response it would receive and guess what......?
the results speak for themselves. Admittedly I knowingly set the hook on that one.
It doesn't have to be about Rupp. I could say we were paying players during the Joe B. Hall era. If the coach is beloved, some percentage of fans are going to defend him as long as the issue can be rationalized in some way. Look at how fans reacted to Roselle and Sutton when the scandal story broke.
Back in the old days that’s just how it was and we accepted it and were better off for it AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents
... wait a minute...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents
... wait a minute...
^ Coaching, like politics, is a cult of personality.
People form intense emotional attachments with the coach and so when they're criticized, it's like somebody is criticizing us.
The people who wore Eddie Sutton buttons as he was going down in flames are the same ones who stand by politicians when it's obvious to everyone that they're corrupt fools. The same response probably kicks in when a family member is criticized by an outsider.
People form intense emotional attachments with the coach and so when they're criticized, it's like somebody is criticizing us.
The people who wore Eddie Sutton buttons as he was going down in flames are the same ones who stand by politicians when it's obvious to everyone that they're corrupt fools. The same response probably kicks in when a family member is criticized by an outsider.
if supporting UK since childhood and being on this board has taught me anything, being objective and being a fan are two very tough disciplines to support at the same time.
I wouldn't watch that if Salma Hayek gave me a lapdance at the halfway point.
Ok, yes I would.
Ok, yes I would.
The implicit claim is that IU fans are reflexively defending Knight without regard to facts or reason.
In the Kentucky-Rupp case there’s plenty of facts & reason to demonstrate that it’s perfectly logical and reasonable to defend him over the charge you suggested.
As I said your analogy is a poor one.
and its by and large defended by only Kentucky fans
I've watched you admirably defend Rupp on here for years. I have no problem with it and I agree with your many posts. However I think your antenna is up a little to high at the moment in regard to this one.
I’m from Bloomington, work in Kentucky and I will tell you we have some people in our fan base that are just idiots. Everyone I know absolutely hates Knight and the administration for killing any semblance of good Basketball. The true fans also know Reed got choked and bullied the whole time he was a player. Our fans are so dumb that a lot of them are calling out Archie Miller for not beating duke! I mean sheesh! We have to listen to a lot of nonsense that our fans and administrators created. Bob became so bitter and emboldened over time that he thought he was untouchable. I was 18 in 93 and recognized then knights days where numbered. He was the ultimate asshole.
There was a great 30 for 30, or SEC Storied, I can't remember, on Coach Bernadette Mattox. I believe it is somewhat old (2015 or 2016) but I was not aware of the 30 for 30. Awesome story and great woman she was/is.
"Coach Bernie"
"Coach Bernie"
Completely irrelevant. Most non-UK fans don’t know any of the facts and the very small number that do don’t feel an obligation to defend his legacy. That’s not unexpected, that’s just human nature.
FWIW, the people I correspond with who are not UK fans & who are familiar with the facts & history of integration of college basketball (think sports historians, professors, social scientists, media members etc.) generally agree with me that Rupp gets a raw deal with regard to these issues. But I don’t expect any of them to go to great lengths to defend his legacy against attacks. It’s frankly exhausting to deal with idiots constantly.
So from the standpoint of only UK Fans taking the time to defend him being like only IU fans defending Knight, I would agree with you. But I just think you could & should come up with a better example because the defense of Knight choking Reed is proven to be incorrect & irrational while the defense of Rupp over the bogus claim he supported segregation is based on facts & reason.
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You seriously put coach K in the same category as Knight, give me a break.
Yeah, I guess years of seeing stomping, flopping, tripping, and twisting refs arms hardened me up.
The demise of IU basketball may be Karma for the way IU fans treated Reed and others while defending the scumbag Robert Montgomery Knight.
Why can't we get any good ESPN specials and such about us?
As much as Dick Vitale may have a "Duke Vitale" or "ACC Vitale" rep, he at least has shown us plenty of love...I'm just not so sure about in terms of ESPN specials.
Just watched it and it makes me hate him even more. If Kentucky does go 40-0, I would have gone to his house and rub it in his face that he is no longer the last guy to coach an undefeated season.
