I think we all agree with this, whether think he should continue getting 34-36mpg or be cut back to 28-32mpg.
Tre Mitchell - 36 Minutes. Again.
- Thread starter CincyUKFan
- Start date
His role has definitely changed with Bradshaw back. And Cal's approach has changed. So, yes, Mitchell was one of UK's most important players through 7 games .... but will that remain true? Mitchell trying to force feed Bradshaw hasn't worked for 2 games now, in terms of turnovers and bad passes when a shooter is open ... that's Cal.
I’m just worried about Cal overplaying Mitchell. The banging at the 4 and 5 spots all game every game in the SEC will wear him down. 2-3 minutes more a half for Thiero brings Mitchell down to around 30 minutes a game. That’s perfect.
No player should play 35 minutes a game.
AD only played 32 a game and was the best player to ever play for Cal. Plus his backup was Vargas. If AD didn’t get those kinds of minutes with Vargas as his backup, then no one should, especially Mitchell, who could easily cede a few minutes to a very good player like Thiero.
No player should play 35 minutes a game.
AD only played 32 a game and was the best player to ever play for Cal. Plus his backup was Vargas. If AD didn’t get those kinds of minutes with Vargas as his backup, then no one should, especially Mitchell, who could easily cede a few minutes to a very good player like Thiero.
I don't really think this is an issue. I think Cal mentioned in the post game he played him too many mins.
So it's not like he's not aware of it lol.
So it's not like he's not aware of it lol.
If he drops below 30%, we'll talk.
34.5% isn't eggregious from a 4. Thiero shoots 17%. So we should cut his minutes because his shooting is falling--and in his place, we'll play a 17% 3 point shooter.
Well, Thiero plays better defense. Sure. He's a liability on offense. Kansas didn't guard him. Whereas Mitchell has to have a man on him at the 3 point line--no one respects Theiro's 3 point game.
So we'll have defenders clogging the paint and the offense will be even worse.
Reed Sheppard has had some defensive struggles, but anytime that comes up--all anyone wants to talk about is how he does so many other things well. Mitchell also does a lot of other things well. The Kentucky boy gets a pass. The out of state kid doesn't.
Yeah no reason at all he should playing that much, 26-28 is where he should be, especially bc he's a defensive liability. They made that run early in the second and it was basically all due to him lol
I think some are placing too much emphasis on Offense, wanting ALL 5 guys on the floor to be the best 5 offensive players. Theiro is the closest thing we have to a defensive stopper. He is easily our most physical player. He is our best rebounder, and he drives to the basket with authority.
I don't think anyone is suggesting play Theiro 36min and Mitchell 15min. But unless you are a Mashburn/Prince/Davis/Ulis elite-level player, you don't need to be out there 36min. Most guys can't play "all-out" for that long on a consistent basis. But Mitchell for 28 and Theiro for 22 is a better split. We all know Cal will be slow to cut Edwards minutes, but right now he is the least contributing player out of the top 8, so he should be the one cut the most for Bradshaw.
But once Onyenso is added to the mix, then however many minutes he gets also gets sliced off a number of other players too.
Did you just cite his best game (Kansas) to speak to his being a liability on offense? Holy cow. That game demonstrates exactly what he does bring to the table on offense. He can clean up messes and give you momentum putback slams. He can get out in transition and finish as well, if not better, than anyone on the team. Your boy Cal has even said he can be the best finisher in the country. No one is saying Thiero is an outside threat. But that doesn't make him an offensive liability, especially at the 4 position.
Tre is absolutely a liability on one end of the court. The same is not true for Thiero. And guess what? It can be a good thing do have one guy out there who is happy to get offensive rebounds and do the dirty work. Thiero is that guy.
Great post. This is a trend for sure. Failing to recognize that there are TWO aspects to the game and that most players tend to be better at one than the other. I think many here are failing to see just how awful Tre is on the defensive end. He is really really bad. And it's just not good to have a guy who cannot or chooses not to defend out there for 36 minutes.
Cal said that. But the reality is, before that game, Cal played him 34.5mpg. So, did he mention playing him too many minutes for the whole year?
I mean, before this game we needed Tre to have even a semblance of size. And the game prior Bradshaw was easing into things a bit. In the first game where Tre could or should have had his minutes cut Cal didn't and acknowledged he should have. I guess we'll see where it goes from here.
They actually are not fairly even in rebounds. Adonis percentage is 8.6% and 19% (offense versus defense rebound %). Mitchell is 4.8 and 14.9%.
| Role Players (16-20% of possessions used) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 4 | Tre Mitchell National Rank | 6-9 | 231 | Sr | 9 | 9 | 85.5 106 | 127.0 150 | 17.4 | 16.1 | 59.8 174 | 61.5 227 | 4.8 | 14.9 | 16.4 | 11.0 359 | 4.5 249 | 1.9 | 2.8 | 3.3 | 37.8 467 | 21-31 | .677 | 34-53 | .642 189 | 10-29 | .345 |
| 15 | Reed Sheppard National Rank | 6-3 | 187 | Fr | 9 | 1 | 65.5 | 143.8 11 | 17.2 | 17.1 | 78.4 1 | 80.0 1 | 0.9 | 17.2 479 | 21.8 332 | 15.8 | 3.9 324 | 6.1 8 | 2.0 312 | 2.3 | 19.4 | 12-13 | .923 | 18-28 | .643 184 | 23-39 | .590 7 |
| 1 | Justin Edwards National Rank | 6-8 | 203 | Fr | 9 | 9 | 64.7 | 108.6 | 18.1 | 18.9 | 51.4 | 53.6 | 6.8 | 10.7 | 5.0 | 11.4 410 | 2.5 | 1.8 | 3.4 | 2.9 | 26.0 | 13-19 | .684 | 27-46 | .587 400 | 7-27 | .259 |
| 2 | Aaron Bradshaw | 7-1 | 226 | Fr | 2 | 11.5 | 135.7 | 17.6 | 18.9 | 65.4 | 63.1 | 13.6 | 20.1 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 11.1 | 1.3 | 2.9 | 4.3 | 46.1 | 3-6 | .500 | 7-11 | .636 | 1-2 | .500 | |
| Limited roles (12-16% of possessions used) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 3 | Adou Thiero National Rank | 6-8 | 222 | So | 8 | 8 | 54.8 | 118.0 413 | 15.0 | 13.1 | 54.6 | 58.5 | 8.6 371 | 4.2 |
I could not get the spreadsheet to look right here- but the Thiero’s rebound numbers are quite a bit better.
Total rebounds and RPG. Two valid stats where the are fairly even. That's what I was referring to. Thanks for this info.
Sure. I deleted my first response hopefully before you saw it. I thought I was responding to a different post.
Well we kind of had to. Up until two games ago we were without 3 big men. We are still without 2 big men.
As guys come back Mitchell will naturally see his mins diminish.
But remember.... Mitchell has played 1 more (12.5%) game than Theiro, AND he has played 112 more total minutes (55.6% more), AND 9.7 more MPG (38.8% more). So, looking at totals is not a good statistic, and even Per-Game while better than Totals is not as good as Per-Minute.
Per-30-Minute rebounding for our team:
Player - Reb - Off Reb - Def Reb
Onyenso 11.5 - 4.9 - 6.5 (last year)
Bradshaw - 9.3 - 3.6 - 5.7
Burks - 7.9 - 2.8 - 5.0
Theiro - 7.7 - 2.3 - 5.4
----------------------------
Mitchell - 5.5 - 1.3 - 4.2
Dillingham - 5.5 - 0.4 - 5.1
Sheppard - 5.1 - 0.3 - 4.9
Edwards - 4.8 - 1.8 - 3.0
Reeves - 4.4 - 1.1 - 3.3
Not only was it Adou’s best game—it was his only double digit game.
You’re right man. Offensive weapon.
You responded to my point about Adou's limitations on offense by saying "LOL KANSAS WAS HIS BEST SCORING GAME."
If you don't want to discuss that, ok. But when you act like he doesn't have offensive limitations "because he scored so much against Kansas," I'll respond to that.
In typical cal fashion he has to overplay an older guy so much that his legs are toast when it comes March. He did it the last several years and on pace again. It's what he does.
Due to injuries and UK-Admissions & NCAA taking their time he had to overplay Mitchell first 7-8 games. But that no longer appears to be the case. So hopefully that changes.
He has one clear limitation - shooting the 3. He has showcased an ability to attack the paint, finish in traffic, get to the FT line, get offensive rebounds, throw down put back dunks, and even hit floaters in the lane. I literally gave you a list of things he does bring to the table offensively.
As someone else said, you don’t need your five best offensive players on the floor simultaneously. Especially when two of them hurt you so much defensively.
I highly doubt it will change. For whatever reason, Cal has chosen to look past Tre’s hideous defense and play him the most minutes. And I think it will continue.
Nice post. The numbers for %rebounds are also better for Adou. Kind of surprised me when I saw it.
Sorry UK won. I know you are mad about it
Mitchell looked decent out there.
Not sure why we think Thiero should get more minutes. I again saw some ill advised shots from thiero and he's still very young. We NEED Tre's experience
Not sure why we think Thiero should get more minutes. I again saw some ill advised shots from thiero and he's still very young. We NEED Tre's experience
What game did you watch?
Theiro 2-4, Mitchell 3-5.
From 3, Theiro 1-2, Mitchell 1-3.
For once Mitchell rebounded better (5, 1/6.6min) but not good himself.
Theiro had 4 huge blocked shots in only 16min. Theiro is also our best frontcourt defender.
Once again no one is saying bench Mitchell. But get him down to 26-30mpg. He can be better with a breather in each half. Only ELITE/STAR players should be playing 33-36mpg.
All he does is play harder than anyone else, be tougher than anyone else, hustle more than anyone else, defend more than anyone else, crash the the boards more than anyone else, take it to the rack with more authority than anyone else, and demonstrate a stronger desire to win games than anyone else.
Yeah, why would we possibly want a guy like that to play more than 16 minutes?
I'm a huge fan of Mitchell but shocked when I saw his minutes in the box score this morning. He has a calming affect on the team, but would still like to get him down another 5 min or so.
Looking at the box score I was surprised to see only 1 rebound each for Thiero and Ugo in 27 min total. But, they really looked good on defense. Intimidated the Tar Heels actually.
Looking at the box score I was surprised to see only 1 rebound each for Thiero and Ugo in 27 min total. But, they really looked good on defense. Intimidated the Tar Heels actually.
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