And the ones who win it all have great defenses. I get it that you are a fan of offense. Hell I am too as I was an OC. But you still have to have great defenses to win it as I said in my post. You need both but you better be able to stop people.
Three Biggest Area's For Development: Kicking/QB/Interior D-Line . . . .
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And the ones who win it all have great defenses. I get it that you are a fan of offense. Hell I am too as I was an OC. But you still have to have great defenses to win it as I said in my post. You need both but you better be able to stop people.
There were three great defenses and one great offense in the playoff. Last year, Clemson probably had both a great offense and a great defense. Since the playoff started, I suspect every NC has had a great defense.
More so you better have the ability to score a bunch of points...Ala and the big boys have all figured that out just look when they play each other anymore.
Sorry there were four great offenses in the playoff all averaging right at fourty a game. Last year Clemson beat Ala 35-31... that's offense. Year before that it was 45-40 Ala. Les Miles was an excellent defensive coach, but seemed to think he could beat every team 14 13. The game has simply changed in the last 15-20 years.
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The final at end of regulation in National championship game was 20-20..
And no where did I say you don’t need to score or have good offenses. You had better be able to stop people. Hell Hal Mumme scores a ton of points but couldn’t stop anyone. You have to make stops to win
Read my post again. I have never said you don’t need a good offense. My point is you had better stop people or you will not win especially at that level.
UKs potential on defense makes them a serious threat in the east. UGA is losing starters on D to graduation and Smith announced today he was leaving plus the first DL off the bench is leaving. We will take a step back on defense because of experience and Smith. We can replace everyone but Smith, how big a step will determine how well we do. UK could have the best d in the East in 18.
OU had the #1 total offense in the country. Bama was 29, UGA 32 and Clemson 39.
Bama has the #1 defense. Clemson was 4 and UGA 6. OU was 67.
We probably have vastly different definitions for the words “great” and “sorry.”
Smith is that one kind of special teams need for greatness. His ability to play sideline to sideline was remarkable. Not a surprise that he is looking at the draft.
We probably have vastly different definitions for the words “great” and “sorry.”[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming you don't consider okla@45..uga@35.8.. Ala@36.4..clemson@31.2 as having ""great" offenses? I'll bet if UK was anywhere close to that you' d be preaching it from the mountain tops...please enlighten us old wise one your reasoning for the last 3-4 national champions games where the winners were at 30-35+.
I'm assuming you don't consider okla@45..uga@35.8.. Ala@36.4..clemson@31.2 as having ""great" offenses? I'll bet if UK was anywhere close to that you' d be preaching it from the mountain tops...please enlighten us old wise one your reasoning for the last 3-4 national champions games where the winners were at 30-35+.
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You are a one trick pony. Someone disagrees with you about something unrelated to UK and you have to try and make it about UK.
Whatever genius...what about the scoring of the four teams in the playoffs...guess all the teams they played defenses sucked.
When we go up against talented O-lines like you see at Georgia and MSU you hope to maybe hold your own up front but not necessarily win many plays, but OTOH when you go up against lesser competition your D-line needs to collapse the pocket or penetrate the backfield in order to slow down an offense. We just didn't do a very good job of that last year for whatever reason. So I would agree that's the number one area of where we need to improve and I think we can with the additional experience, and talent we add to the rotation.
I quoted you the rankings of the offenses and defenses. If you think the top 29-39 ranked offenses are “great,” we simply disagree. And, those numbers are probably somewhat inflated due to the great defenses of those teams.
And, I can be comfortable with us disagreeing without deriding your intelligence.
Cat fans have a tough time comparing themselves and their team to anything Georgia related, buuuuut, we had a particularly knowledgeable Georgia poster, here, preseason who told us that 7-5 Georgia was returning 10 of 11 (or so) starters on defense . . . . and that worked out pretty good for them.
Hey, I'll go for either, or both, as causing the change from the first two years to the third. And I can name some other folks . . . . people get "thread exhaustion," if you list 20 names, but given time I could likely do so.
My main focus was to note that having folks coming back can make for a significant change for the positive, either through experience or maturity. In Pryor's case, it was hinted at the time that he was struggling emotionally, getting too hyped up for games, and then leaving after just a play or two his first two seasons. (Remember the long Bush TD on the ground in 2006 on the second play of the game . . . . guess which young DT had just removed himself from the field after only one play had occurred . . . . Myron Prior shuffled off the field and the Bush run began through his gap, with a substitute player at his position.) Two years later, in 2008, Pryor dominated Louisville's line.
Wildcard and others state pretty categorically that defenses improve with new blood, and downplay both the experience factor and the maturity factor. New blood can help, but I think having upper class men does too.
Just look at 7-5 Georgia in 2016, who returned 10/11 defensive starters for 2017 . . . . think maturity and experience helped put them in the title game?
In 2016 Ga scored at a 24.7 ppg clip and finished 7-5...in 2017 they scored at 35.8ppg clip and played for NC...UK avg ppg in 2016 and '17 was in the low 20's and finished 7-6 both years...hmmmmmm!
In 2016 UGA averaged giving up 24 pts. per game. In 2017 only 16.4 pts. per game
UGA did return 10 of 11 starters in 17, 3 of those lost their starting spots, still in rotation, and Smith went from being a good LB to the Butkus winner. I don't know what that means other than it keeps players on their toes because the guy behind them is ready to take their spot. We are losing a lot on D, but every new starter played at least a quarter in 10 games, several were in rotations and played early. Smith is the only spot that will have a big impact. We have no one to fill his shoes.
Easy one...offense on the field longer, scoring more and top keeping the defense off the field.
Or is it the defense limiting the time the opponent's offense is on the field, thus giving the offense more possessions, better field positions, and more time to wear down the opponent's defense?
Just saw I got a reference and I'm guilty as charged.
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
When a good defense returns players in numbers you can reasonably expect a good defense the following year. But when a bad defense returns players in numbers (especially upperclassmen who have probably "developed" as much as they are going to), well, you are probably better off finding new players.
The 2016 GA defense was ranked #15 allowing just 335 YPG overall. That certainly set the table for a good 2017 (#5, allowing just 293 YPG). In contrast the 2017 UK defense (that returns 10 starters for next year) was #93 in total defense allowing 436 YPG. I'm not sure experience is going to make that much better.
Peace
Frankly, if we don't develop a capacity to stuff interior runs, it won't. Hence the subject of my OP.
Still, losing three or four to the draft would have done little to shore up our defense's most serious concern. Hopefully we can/will add new blood in the middle to compliment our returnees, who are primarily peripheral players, at DE, OSLB, and Safety.
I will settle for UK making the huge leap Ga made on the offensive side of the ball...think that gives us 2-3 more wins.Just saw I got a reference and I'm guilty as charged.
When a good defense returns players in numbers you can reasonably expect a good defense the following year. But when a bad defense returns players in numbers (especially upperclassmen who have probably "developed" as much as they are going to), well, you are probably better off finding new players.
The 2016 GA defense was ranked #15 allowing just 335 YPG overall. That certainly set the table for a good 2017 (#5, allowing just 293 YPG). In contrast the 2017 UK defense (that returns 10 starters for next year) was #93 in total defense allowing 436 YPG. I'm not sure experience is going to make that much better.
Peace
Yaah, an optimistic post, it's-----
Oh, never mind.
So, 2-3 more wins gets us from 7 wins to 5 or 6, per your prediction? Did you flunk math?
I think we will have quite a bit of contribution from freshmen on defense, whether true freshmen or redshirts. AND I think if 5.9 McCall can step in and have a true freshman year like 5.4 Bohanna did, our DL will be a strength for the first time in about a decade. Bohanna, Paschal, and McCall all sound like winners to me, should be a strength for a while.
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Just saw I got a reference and I'm guilty as charged.
When a good defense returns players in numbers you can reasonably expect a good defense the following year. But when a bad defense returns players in numbers (especially upperclassmen who have probably "developed" as much as they are going to), well, you are probably better off finding new players.
The 2016 GA defense was ranked #15 allowing just 335 YPG overall. That certainly set the table for a good 2017 (#5, allowing just 293 YPG). In contrast the 2017 UK defense (that returns 10 starters for next year) was #93 in total defense allowing 436 YPG. I'm not sure experience is going to make that much better.
Peace
How do you think Bohanna and Paschal will do in their second year?
Carter, Looney, Hoskins are still improving. Will Whitaker be big enough to be in the mix? UK returns a lot of experience. I don’t know where WildCard gets his stats for his conclusion that defenses don’t improve when they return numbers, but I do know that a coach gets to be more selective as to what young players replace old in such circumstances. The difference between midland and good can be two or three players in the right positions. So, we have growth potential on the DL and may see a few young players interspersed with returning vets. That could make a difference. Compare that to the 2016 season when we had to replace a great deal with inexperience on defense. Stoops had no choices and had no experience on the field to balance youth. Even talented youth like Ware, Allen, Jones, Edwards, Westry, Baity and others. It was young. Next year, Stoops can place youth selectively if there is someone winning in practice, but lacking experience. Only MLB must be new.
I suspect Lonnie Johnson to be improved. I think Robinson will also improve in the backfield. I suspect there will be a couple of DBs who press for time. And the competition at LBer should be fun to watch. I tend to agree with those who are saying we may see much more substitutes next year and less iron man performances, except when it comes to Allen and Edwards, and perhaps Jones.
JawJaw jumped from 386 YPG/24.4 PPG in 2016 to 439 YPG/35.8 PPG in Year 2. Year 2 is often an "improvement" for new staffs but those are some really big jumps.
Cats averaged 25.4 PPG last year, 2.5 points (e.g., a FG) less than the national median. Two more FGs (FL, NU) could have theoretically added 2 more wins to the schedule.
IDK. Bohannon played his way into the starting lineup the last 5 games. Always impressive for a t-FR. UK held Vandy and Ole Myth under 100 yds rushing but gave up over 300 yards to JawJaw, UofL and NU.
Pascal had a very good FR year at the JACK LBer spot. To be truthful I don't recall whether he was "best" as a stand up end or an OLB. Can he beat out Ware for this unusual "hybrid" spot (I really kind of hate that word "hybrid"
) or do you let him gain a few pounds and move to one of the DT spots in the 3 man line? Anyway, he looks to be a player and I think they really need to find ways to put him on the field more often than not.The point was that "bad" defenses usually don't improve due to returning experience. Per Steele, the 2017 Cats returned 9 defensive starters from 2016. The 2016 defense finished #87 allowing 447 YPG and the 2017 defense finished #93 allowing 436 YPG.
I like these 2 sites for stats:
teamrankings: This site only uses data from games against FBS opponents
cfbstats: This site generally shows data from all games but you can select a statistical topic and then select "FBS (1-A) Only"
cfbstats: This site generally shows data from all games but you can select a statistical topic and then select "FBS (1-A) Only"
teamrankings data is sortable by school name so you do not have to read through a non-alphabetized list of schools to find the school you seek. cfbstats needs this feature. Each site has some unique stats not found on the other one.
Peace
JawJaw jumped from 386 YPG/24.4 PPG in 2016 to 439 YPG/35.8 PPG in Year 2. Year 2 is often an "improvement" for new staffs but those are some really big jumps.
Cats averaged 25.4 PPG last year, 2.5 points (e.g., a FG) less than the national median. Two more FGs (FL, NU) could have theoretically added 2 more wins to the schedule.
IDK. Bohannon played his way into the starting lineup the last 5 games. Always impressive for a t-FR. UK held Vandy and Ole Myth under 100 yds rushing but gave up over 300 yards to JawJaw, UofL and NU.
Pascal had a very good FR year at the JACK LBer spot. To be truthful I don't recall whether he was "best" as a stand up end or an OLB. Can he beat out Ware for this unusual "hybrid" spot (I really kind of hate that word "hybrid"
The point was that "bad" defenses usually don't improve due to returning experience. Per Steele, the 2017 Cats returned 9 defensive starters from 2016. The 2016 defense finished #87 allowing 447 YPG and the 2017 defense finished #93 allowing 436 YPG.
I like these 2 sites for stats:
teamrankings: This site only uses data from games against FBS opponents
cfbstats: This site generally shows data from all games but you can select a statistical topic and then select "FBS (1-A) Only"
teamrankings data is sortable by school name so you do not have to read through a non-alphabetized list of schools to find the school you seek. cfbstats needs this feature. Each site has some unique stats not found on the other one.
Peace
Is your data point the UK teams from last year and this? Certainly, you are not generalizing from that.
Umm, I'm not really sure what you are asking here. We don't have any data for "this" year yet.
IRT to the subject overall I am of the opinion that "bad" defenses do not generally "improve with experience". I think defensive improvement most often comes with new coaching/style of play or new on field talent.
FWIW, unless something dramatic happens between now and September, based on late season defensive line ups, UK will probably start 7 or 8 SR, multi-year starters this fall. That sounds good until you look at defensive performance over the past 2 years (i.e., their JR/SO years). JMO
Peace
Whether Uga takes a step back or not, I'll take talent over experience. I got a C note that says we don't have the best SEC East D based on yards per play. We're just not going to move up that much from 51 of 65 BCS teams. Move up? OK.
Maturity certainly matters on the DL. Not much at all after a year at DB and little at LB after a year. I give Fromm more credit than your D experience.
As the DL improves, it helps the DBs. So if we can make some improvement on the defensive front, we'll see what appears to be an improvement on the back side.
Okay, thanks. You have an opinion and one example. That was all I wanted to know.
Someone posting on this board would put winning scores on here each week and most winners scored 30+ in the game. I looked at the top 15 teams in the nation a few weeks ago and one thing they all had in common was offenses averaging 30+ ppg. There is something to that number. We only scored 30 three times this year. Have to figure out a way to get it in the end zone more to improve our record.
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