The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[bigblueinsanity]

I want to know why - in this day and age - we can’t get accurate information re casualties. It doesn’t even seem like the press even cares.

We never had any accurate information about what's going on over there. Never ever. That's my point all along about why we should immediately stop money until at least the American people are given actual facts about what's happening.

This weird fog obscuring any fact can only mean they don't want us to know. In turn that means only one thing - us knowing would be bad which means its all probably lies and our entire involvement should end post haste

 

[RunninRichie]

We never had any accurate information about what's going on over there. Never ever. That's my point all along about why we should immediately stop money until at least the American people are given actual facts about what's happening.

This weird fog obscuring any fact can only mean they don't want us to know. In turn that means only one thing - us knowing would be bad which means its all probably lies and our entire involvement should end post haste

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

 

[WayneDougan]

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

The difference is that this is 2024 and we literally have a gazillion more ways to estimate casualties compared to 1941.

 

[RunninRichie]

The difference is that this is 2024 and we literally have a gazillion more ways to estimate casualties compared to 1941.

Which I linked.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Fox Business just now: Russia evacuates 180,000 due to UKR invasion.

Heh.

WSJ points to disruption of supply lines and take prisoners.

Wonder if UKR also trying to force a ceasefire?

 

[RunninRichie]

Fox Business just now: Russia evacuates 180,000 due to UKR invasion.

Heh.

WSJ points to disruption of supply lines and take prisoners.

Wonder if UKR also trying to force a ceasefire?

Surreal. That we're talking abou Ukraine INVADING RUSSIA. In 2024. Who would've thought this in 2022?

 

[Hank Camacho]

The difference is that this is 2024 and we literally have a gazillion more ways to estimate casualties compared to 1941.

Yes. And it still seems like governments know how to control the media reporting on wars to the point that getting completely accurate info seems utterly impossible.

After COVID, I'm not sure I trust a single actual media source. Rogan might as well be Cronkite now.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Fox Business just now: Russia evacuates 180,000 due to UKR invasion.

Heh.

WSJ points to disruption of supply lines and take prisoners.

Wonder if UKR also trying to force a ceasefire?

Hope so.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

Wrong ite the complete opposite. Always before we had battle field reporters on the front lines with live video, reporting, etc. brave people but they were there.

This conflict has gone on all this time with information being all over the map but mostly the exclusive sources are from the two states both at odds and both with much to gain.

I immediately knew something was off when little z kept freely flying in and out of the country that was supposedly at war. Msm said oh thats because they let Russia know whos coming and out so they don't shoot down the plane with z on it.

So the official explanation is that two countries supposedly at war basically make sure to not kill the most important person to one of those parties? Thats the exact opposite of how war works. Yet everyone just nodded and went along.

We have no idea what's going on. Till they fix that, not another dime or missile should go out the door

 

[CastleRubric]

You might be right about NATO, but given the two + year clusterf@&k of Russia invading Ukraine, who is going to defeat NATO?

Russia has suffered more casualties than did the US in WWII, lost 600-800 aircraft and thousands of tanks and armored vehicles, sustained progression of no farther than 60 clicks into a country the size of Texas, suffered an invasion of Russia proper, and yet they would wipe NATO out?

Are the US and UK no longer in NATO? Germany has half-assed their participation for decades, but that doesn’t diminish the huge investments by Poland, and the Eastern flank, spurred on by Russia’s aggression against Ukraine.

It seems that the only guaranteed outcome of any of this frantic cluster-fkk-on-stilts -- is a bankrupt and exhausted planet that will DESIRE -- A New .:::"Order" per se'🤠👺

 

[RunninRichie]

Wrong ite the complete opposite. Always before we had battle field reporters on the front lines with live video, reporting, etc. brave people but they were there.

This conflict has gone on all this time with information being all over the map but mostly the exclusive sources are from the two states both at odds and both with much to gain.

I immediately knew something was off when little z kept freely flying in and out of the country that was supposedly at war. Msm said oh thats because they let Russia know whos coming and out so they don't shoot down the plane with z on it.

So the official explanation is that two countries supposedly at war basically make sure to not kill the most important person to one of those parties? Thats the exact opposite of how war works. Yet everyone just nodded and went along.

We have no idea what's going on. Till they fix that, not another dime or missile should go out the door

There's plenty in Ukraine.

 

[CastleRubric]

I want to know why - in this day and age - we can’t get accurate information re casualties. It doesn’t even seem like the press even cares.

information - almost ALL of it -- has been weaponized - disinformation purposely unleashed -

people are probably sensing things they're afraid to speak about - fear of being called a name - or maybe a little worse

People's minds are being tampered with, man

 

[CastleRubric]

There's plenty in Ukraine.

I got a yellow jacket nest to go eradicate, friends

 

[CastleRubric]

Curious. Who is a proven, reliable fighting forces besides US, Israel, Ukraine? Taliban? Houthis? Thanks.

Damnation. - i don't think i addressed your question ...at least not very well

Thats a good question - tricky too
I think you can kind of rank national militaries into 3 tiers?

There are a few examples of elite military powers - and I would probably include smaller nations that effectively wield economic or alliance based schemes to project power (Israel)

China has to be included at the top and they are formally aligned with Russia , and Iran -+ other Islamic nations etc)

Countries like Sweden , Spain, Italy, Poland , The Netherlands or Denmark - - haven't seriously invested in their military and they haven't the vision nor will to fight "over there " --


Japan could have returned to major power status it they had been let off the chain sooner - they have been militarizing rapidly since around 2010-2012?


I think the bigger point is that the US-"led" western military dominance is ending -

I could do this better it we were face to face sipping shirley temples and whatnot

 

[bigblueinsanity]

There's plenty in Ukraine.

If you mean Ukraine using people to disseminate information - yes i agree but.....thats exactly my point. In every other major conflict the us had reporters there, dangerous as it was. Here there nothing anyone can independently verify because it all comes from one of the two actors both of which have heavy gains to make from painting it in their favor.

The zelinsky flight stuff is the easiest most glaring key that something isnt as we're told. No way in any war does a combatant state know and agree to let the other combatant state's president fly freely around the globe to recruit resources and sympathy that will aid in that campaign. It makes zero sense and is the most clear indication we have no clue whats happening.

 

[vhcat70]

Damnation. - i don't think i addressed your question ...at least not very well

Thats a good question - tricky too
I think you can kind of rank national militaries into 3 tiers?

There are a few examples of elite military powers - and I would probably include smaller nations that effectively wield economic or alliance based schemes to project power (Israel)

China has to be included at the top and they are formally aligned with Russia , and Iran -+ other Islamic nations etc)

Countries like Sweden , Spain, Italy, Poland , The Netherlands or Denmark - - haven't seriously invested in their military and they haven't the vision nor will to fight "over there " --


Japan could have returned to major power status it they had been let off the chain sooner - they have been militarizing rapidly since around 2010-2012?


I think the bigger point is that the US-"led" western military dominance is ending -

I could do this better it we were face to face sipping shirley temples and whatnot

One I left out is Finland.

 

[CastleRubric]

One I left out is Finland.

They fkked up Stalins communist invaders in 1941 I believe
Stalin had to negotiate an exit?

Plus - wasn't it Finland the US hockey team played for gold after upsetting the USSR in 1980?

Sheeeiiit, VanHalenMan - now im just talking Crazy Talk at you, cuz

Quick!!!!

Name another finland fact !!!

 

[vhcat70]

They fkked up Stalins communist invaders in 1941 I believe
Stalin had to negotiate an exit?

Plus - wasn't it Finland the US hockey team played for gold after upsetting the USSR in 1980?

Sheeeiiit, VanHalenMan - now im just talking Crazy Talk at you, cuz

Quick!!!!

Name another finland fact !!!

Like Hungary, the language is ununderstandable even in print. Can't begin to interpret anything.

 

[CastleRubric]

Like Hungary, the language is ununderstandable even in print. Can't begin to interpret anything.

There are some weird examples of places like that, man
Where the language doesn't seem to have any close analog or their overall identities fall behind the couch of human consciousness

That was funny in my head; Edward VH -
I don't actually talk like that to people -

Not REALLY

 

[vhcat70]

I'm reading the area Ukraine "controls" in Russia is about 600 sq. mi. Trying to comprehend, that's about the size of two Ky counties.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

---
Uh, no, US tanks weren't circling Berlin. The closest US Armor got during the Battle of Berlin was around 100 miles. The Soviet First Belorussian Front (Marshal Georgy Zhukov) & the Soviet First Ukrainian Front (Marshal Ivan Konev) encircled Berlin on April 20, 1945. The Soviets captured Berlin in late April 1945, while US & British forces didn't enter the city until early July 1945. Looks like truth is a casualty here, too.

 

[vhcat70]

Reading there's anarchy in the region of Ukraine's attacks in Russia and not just in the areas they control, but also where evacuations are happening. No police presence. Russians themselves looting Russians. People feel abandoned by the government. Perhaps it's propaganda.