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The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

vhcat70 said:
I've never seen such a comprehensive peace plan as this:

"Pundits claim that if Donald Trump is re-elected, he will cut off aid to Ukraine, give away its territory, and deal directly with Vladimir Putin to impose an ignominious “peace” on the country.

There’s no evidence that such capitulation will be part of President Trump’s policy and much evidence to the contrary. It was Mr. Trump who in 2017 lifted the Obama administration’s arms embargo on Ukraine, providing it with the Javelin missiles that helped save Kyiv in the earliest days of Russia’s invasion. More recently, Mr. Trump gave political cover to House Speaker Mike Johnson when he maneuvered to pass additional military aid. Helping Ukraine while revitalizing the American defense industrial base in Alabama, Pennsylvania and Virginia is good policy—and good politics.

The Biden administration’s weakness has left Ukraine where it is today: two years into a full-scale war, with cities destroyed, hundreds of thousands killed, and millions of refugees, and without the means to win. The White House has no strategy for victory, and Americans are rightly concerned. While Mr. Biden stumbled into war through weakness, Mr. Trump could re-establish peace through strength. Here’s how a successful plan for Ukraine might look:
• Unleash America’s energy potential. This will fire up the U.S. economy, drive down prices and shrink Mr. Putin’s war-crimes budget.
• Rebuild ties with Saudi Arabia and Israel and work together against Iran. This will stabilize the Middle East, ease the Gaza crisis, and create an opening for the Saudis to join the U.S. in squeezing Russia out of global energy markets. (Two legs of the Russia-Iran-China Axis)
• Impose real sanctions on Russia. The Biden administration’s sanctions sound good on paper but are hollow. The Treasury, for example, exempts Russian banks from U.S. sanctions if their transactions are related to energy production—the most important revenue source for the Kremlin’s war machine.
• Bulk up America’s defense industry. We must show our adversaries, especially Russia and China, that they can’t compete with U.S. defense capabilities. Russia’s economy is smaller than Texas’. We can’t allow China to match and surpass the U.S.
• Revitalize the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. This includes making Europeans pay their fair share. It is time to raise the bar on spending to 3% of member countries’ gross domestic product.
• Create a $500 billion “lend-lease” program for Ukraine. Instead of saddling U.S. taxpayers with more bills, let Ukraine borrow as much as it needs to buy American weapons to defeat Russia. This is how we helped Britain in World War II before Pearl Harbor. It’s how we can send a clear signal to Mr. Putin that he will never win.
• Lift all restrictions on the type of weapons Ukraine can obtain and use. This will re-establish a position of strength, which Mr. Putin will understand means the war must end. He will face rising costs and no chance of further gain.

These steps would position Mr. Trump to set the terms of a deal: The war stops immediately. Ukraine builds up substantial defense forces so Russia never attacks again. No one recognizes Russia’s occupation and claimed annexation of any Ukrainian territories—just as we never recognized the Soviet incorporation of the Baltic states and withheld recognition from East Germany until 1974. Crimea is demilitarized. Ukraine rebuilds with reparations from Russia’s frozen central-bank reserves, not U.S. taxpayer dollars.
Ukraine joins NATO as soon as possible so all European allies assume the burden of protecting it. NATO should establish a $100 billion fund for arming Ukraine, with the U.S. share capped at 20%, as is the case with other alliance common budgets. The European Union should swiftly admit Ukraine and help it modernize and develop its economy.
If Russia complies with these terms, the West will gradually lift sanctions. They will be fully removed once Ukraine is in both NATO and the EU..............
These steps, and not the half-measures of the Biden administration, will end the war, establish a lasting peace, ensure Europe bears the burden of maintaining it, and re-establish freedom and security on the Continent.
To those who doubt: The last thing Mr. Trump wants in a second term is a foreign-policy failure that distracts from his domestic agenda and makes Mr. Biden’s botched withdrawal from Afghanistan look like a success in comparison."

Click to expand...
I'm curious why Richie liked this post, bc its a different approach than the current admins and he's been all in on that and any suggestion of a diversion from that is "what putin wants"

Maybe he's starting to understand solutions aren't binary
 
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RunninRichie said:
View embedded media



Lol, Russia's economy is at 18% interest. But HMT said they're rolling?



www.newsweek.com

Top Russian economist dies after falling out of window

Several top Russian officials have plunged to their deaths from windows in recent years, including a top oil executive and a defense official.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
Click to expand...
Yes, this is what many of us have been saying forever...their economy is dead, it wasn't even strong before the war, the only blip was bc of wartime manufacturing, and that this of course means....the fantasy that if they get past Ukraine theyre going to take over the world, create the former Russian empire, etc is just that...fantasy.

But we always hear this circling. Either Ukraine and their avg age 40 year old soldier bc everyone is dead can beat Russia or keep this going in perpetuity, but if he gets past them it's supposedly global domination and all the other countries will fold.

This of course, reinforces, the reality...they arent going anywhere past Ukraine.

And so, with better equipment, training, and resources Ukraine can't compete with numbers...of soldiers and missiles from Russia. So they can either accept a peace deal with land concessions or be pawns for interests who don't actually care if ukranians keep dying bc the real interest isn't saving a soverign nation. (I know, this is the part where you claim everyone is a putin puppet) No everyone wants putin weak, the point is...its not about Ukraine winning or their ppl not dying.
 
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UKBrassowTipIN said:
Yes, this is what many of us have been saying forever...their economy is dead, it wasn't even strong before the war, the only blip was bc of wartime manufacturing, and that this of course means....the fantasy that if they get past Ukraine theyre going to take over the world, create the former Russian empire, etc is just that...fantasy.

But we always hear this circling. Either Ukraine and their avg age 40 year old soldier bc everyone is dead can beat Russia or keep this going in perpetuity, but if he gets past them it's supposedly global domination and all the other countries will fold.

This of course, reinforces, the reality...they arent going anywhere past Ukraine.

And so, with better equipment, training, and resources Ukraine can't compete with numbers...of soldiers and missiles from Russia. So they can either accept a peace deal with land concessions or be pawns for interests who don't actually care if ukranians keep dying bc the real interest isn't saving a soverign nation. (I know, this is the part where you claim everyone is a putin puppet) No everyone wants putin weak, the point is...its not about Ukraine winning or their ppl not dying.
Click to expand...
NATO’s economy is 35x that of Russias. Russia has a GDP the size of Texas. And lol, average age of 40? Where? Nice falsehood, patriot.
 
I know it'll be shot down by our resident warmongers but the word on the street is that Putin is actually thinking about backing Kamala with internet disinfo because he sees her election as a plus to BRICs in the future. Congrats warmongers. We are going to be a 2nd class nation after 2030. Yea.
 
hmt5000 said:
I know it'll be shot down by our resident warmongers but the word on the street is that Putin is actually thinking about backing Kamala with internet disinfo because he sees her election as a plus to BRICs in the future. Congrats warmongers. We are going to be a 2nd class nation after 2030. Yea.
Click to expand...
Luckily, Russia's ''conservative village'' should still be open in 2030. Great place for you to move to.

www.newsweek.com

Russia may build a village for American conservatives

A Kremlin-backed outlet reported on plans for a community designed for Western ex-pats looking to escape "radical values."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
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Let me guess, this is putin playing 4-d chess and being puppet master of the universe again and its not actually real or a concern

"The personnel moves attributed to Yermak have raised concern that any further tightening among Zelenskiy and his inner circle could sap energy for badly needed reforms — even measures to fight corruption and bolster the rule of law, according to people familiar with assessments in Western capitals," Bloomberg describes some of the concerns coming from the West."

www.bloomberg.com

Ukraine’s Allies Are Worried About the Power of Zelenskiy’s Top Aide

Andriy Yermak has amassed outsized influence in the president’s office and a raft of government departures are fueling concern in Western capitals
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
 
Richie would still have us fighting in Vietnam

You can even predict his responses:
"Go live with the communists, what are you Ho Chi Minhs buddy...falling for his propaganda like always comrade"
 
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hmt5000 said:
I know it'll be shot down by our resident warmongers but the word on the street is that Putin is actually thinking about backing Kamala with internet disinfo because he sees her election as a plus to BRICs in the future. Congrats warmongers. We are going to be a 2nd class nation after 2030. Yea.
Click to expand...
The lack of logic here is extreme, but when you get your info from the "street", what else would you expect.. Because supposed warmongers, LOL, oppose Putin's War, we're the cause of him supporting Harris over Trump. I think a reasonable mind would expect him to oppose the war-funding Harris-Biden Admin & support the supposed anti-war candidate. But no, you & I guess the street or whatever somehow twist that around; i.e., twisted logic. Sick.
 
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I can’t at this moment understand the Kursk offensive. Take the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant and use it as a future bargaining chip? Russians were really caught off-guard in this oblast.
 
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bcw1029 said:
I can’t at this moment understand the Kursk offensive. Take the Kursk Nuclear Power Plant and use it as a future bargaining chip? Russians were really caught off-guard in this oblast.
Click to expand...
*IF* Ukraine could take and hold even a toehold in Russia, that could be the leverage they need to finally bring a negotiated end to this.

Or Russia will nuke them.
 
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Hank Camacho said:
*IF* Ukraine could take and hold even a toehold in Russia, that could be the leverage they need to finally bring a negotiated end to this.

Or Russia will nuke them.
Click to expand...
It's a big gamble, will be beneficial if it diverts Russian soldiers from inside Ukraine to create relief...the risk, of course, is if Russia pushes them back and they incur more losses.

NYT says under Russian conscription laws they have soldiers that aren't allowed to fight outside Russia but are used to engage inside the country.
 
UKBrassowTipIN said:
Yes, this is what many of us have been saying forever...their economy is dead, it wasn't even strong before the war, the only blip was bc of wartime manufacturing, and that this of course means....the fantasy that if they get past Ukraine theyre going to take over the world, create the former Russian empire, etc is just that...fantasy.

But we always hear this circling. Either Ukraine and their avg age 40 year old soldier bc everyone is dead can beat Russia or keep this going in perpetuity, but if he gets past them it's supposedly global domination and all the other countries will fold.

This of course, reinforces, the reality...they arent going anywhere past Ukraine.

And so, with better equipment, training, and resources Ukraine can't compete with numbers...of soldiers and missiles from Russia. So they can either accept a peace deal with land concessions or be pawns for interests who don't actually care if ukranians keep dying bc the real interest isn't saving a soverign nation. (I know, this is the part where you claim everyone is a putin puppet) No everyone wants putin weak, the point is...its not about Ukraine winning or their ppl not dying.
Click to expand...
Can you at least name the signed deals between Russia and Ukraine during Putins reign which Russia has actually upheld?
 
hmt5000 said:
I know it'll be shot down by our resident warmongers but the word on the street is that Putin is actually thinking about backing Kamala with internet disinfo because he sees her election as a plus to BRICs in the future. Congrats warmongers. We are going to be a 2nd class nation after 2030. Yea.
Click to expand...
Please explain.
 
JumperJack said:
I (and others) predicted this very obvious thing. Because it was so damn obvious.


Going to find out just what prolonging a losing war will cost us.

View embedded media
Click to expand...
They've said that about a dozen times now. It's classic Russian sabre rattling. If they had anything worth a damn they should have set up shop by now. Instead, Ukraine is moving further and further into Russia...9 miles or so at this point.

How have the hopeless Ukrainians managed this?
 
Hank Camacho said:
*IF* Ukraine could take and hold even a toehold in Russia, that could be the leverage they need to finally bring a negotiated end to this.

Or Russia will nuke them.
Click to expand...
The effectiveness of tactical nukes in this type of fighting is debatable. It would be a heavy price for nominal gains.
 
Spica Orbit said:
---
My guess is they will be encircled & annihilated.
Click to expand...
Lol, ok but they're gonna have to stop being caught in a turkey shoot first.

Now that I've thought about it you may be right. Putin could have ended this a year ago. All he needed to do was encircle the Ukrainians and then annihilate them.

He must be yielding to fairness and letting Ukraine try to fight it out. Time man of the year, Vladimir "Never say i wasn't fair" Putin.
 
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Read somewhere it's highly possible Ivan using old T54/T55 series for rear-guard defense. Nevertheless,

GUi2Z8eXYAAo6mh


Can't forget this brilliant gent. Heh.

 
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BigBlueFanGA said:
They've said that about a dozen times now. It's classic Russian sabre rattling. If they had anything worth a damn they should have set up shop by now. Instead, Ukraine is moving further and further into Russia...9 miles or so at this point.

How have the hopeless Ukrainians managed this?
Click to expand...
It’s not saber rattling. They are shipping weapons that will kill Americans and Israelis.
 
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