The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[bigblueinsanity]

I want to know why - in this day and age - we can’t get accurate information re casualties. It doesn’t even seem like the press even cares.

We never had any accurate information about what's going on over there. Never ever. That's my point all along about why we should immediately stop money until at least the American people are given actual facts about what's happening.

This weird fog obscuring any fact can only mean they don't want us to know. In turn that means only one thing - us knowing would be bad which means its all probably lies and our entire involvement should end post haste

 

[RunninRichie]

We never had any accurate information about what's going on over there. Never ever. That's my point all along about why we should immediately stop money until at least the American people are given actual facts about what's happening.

This weird fog obscuring any fact can only mean they don't want us to know. In turn that means only one thing - us knowing would be bad which means its all probably lies and our entire involvement should end post haste

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

 

[WayneDougan]

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

The difference is that this is 2024 and we literally have a gazillion more ways to estimate casualties compared to 1941.

 

[RunninRichie]

The difference is that this is 2024 and we literally have a gazillion more ways to estimate casualties compared to 1941.

Which I linked.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Fox Business just now: Russia evacuates 180,000 due to UKR invasion.

Heh.

WSJ points to disruption of supply lines and take prisoners.

Wonder if UKR also trying to force a ceasefire?

 

[RunninRichie]

Fox Business just now: Russia evacuates 180,000 due to UKR invasion.

Heh.

WSJ points to disruption of supply lines and take prisoners.

Wonder if UKR also trying to force a ceasefire?

Surreal. That we're talking abou Ukraine INVADING RUSSIA. In 2024. Who would've thought this in 2022?

 

[Hank Camacho]

The difference is that this is 2024 and we literally have a gazillion more ways to estimate casualties compared to 1941.

Yes. And it still seems like governments know how to control the media reporting on wars to the point that getting completely accurate info seems utterly impossible.

After COVID, I'm not sure I trust a single actual media source. Rogan might as well be Cronkite now.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Fox Business just now: Russia evacuates 180,000 due to UKR invasion.

Heh.

WSJ points to disruption of supply lines and take prisoners.

Wonder if UKR also trying to force a ceasefire?

Hope so.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

Wrong ite the complete opposite. Always before we had battle field reporters on the front lines with live video, reporting, etc. brave people but they were there.

This conflict has gone on all this time with information being all over the map but mostly the exclusive sources are from the two states both at odds and both with much to gain.

I immediately knew something was off when little z kept freely flying in and out of the country that was supposedly at war. Msm said oh thats because they let Russia know whos coming and out so they don't shoot down the plane with z on it.

So the official explanation is that two countries supposedly at war basically make sure to not kill the most important person to one of those parties? Thats the exact opposite of how war works. Yet everyone just nodded and went along.

We have no idea what's going on. Till they fix that, not another dime or missile should go out the door

 

[CastleRubric]

You might be right about NATO, but given the two + year clusterf@&k of Russia invading Ukraine, who is going to defeat NATO?

Russia has suffered more casualties than did the US in WWII, lost 600-800 aircraft and thousands of tanks and armored vehicles, sustained progression of no farther than 60 clicks into a country the size of Texas, suffered an invasion of Russia proper, and yet they would wipe NATO out?

Are the US and UK no longer in NATO? Germany has half-assed their participation for decades, but that doesn’t diminish the huge investments by Poland, and the Eastern flank, spurred on by Russia’s aggression against Ukraine.

It seems that the only guaranteed outcome of any of this frantic cluster-fkk-on-stilts -- is a bankrupt and exhausted planet that will DESIRE -- A New .:::"Order" per se'🤠👺

 

[RunninRichie]

Wrong ite the complete opposite. Always before we had battle field reporters on the front lines with live video, reporting, etc. brave people but they were there.

This conflict has gone on all this time with information being all over the map but mostly the exclusive sources are from the two states both at odds and both with much to gain.

I immediately knew something was off when little z kept freely flying in and out of the country that was supposedly at war. Msm said oh thats because they let Russia know whos coming and out so they don't shoot down the plane with z on it.

So the official explanation is that two countries supposedly at war basically make sure to not kill the most important person to one of those parties? Thats the exact opposite of how war works. Yet everyone just nodded and went along.

We have no idea what's going on. Till they fix that, not another dime or missile should go out the door

There's plenty in Ukraine.

 

[CastleRubric]

I want to know why - in this day and age - we can’t get accurate information re casualties. It doesn’t even seem like the press even cares.

information - almost ALL of it -- has been weaponized - disinformation purposely unleashed -

people are probably sensing things they're afraid to speak about - fear of being called a name - or maybe a little worse

People's minds are being tampered with, man

 

[CastleRubric]

There's plenty in Ukraine.

I got a yellow jacket nest to go eradicate, friends

 

[CastleRubric]

Curious. Who is a proven, reliable fighting forces besides US, Israel, Ukraine? Taliban? Houthis? Thanks.

Damnation. - i don't think i addressed your question ...at least not very well

Thats a good question - tricky too
I think you can kind of rank national militaries into 3 tiers?

There are a few examples of elite military powers - and I would probably include smaller nations that effectively wield economic or alliance based schemes to project power (Israel)

China has to be included at the top and they are formally aligned with Russia , and Iran -+ other Islamic nations etc)

Countries like Sweden , Spain, Italy, Poland , The Netherlands or Denmark - - haven't seriously invested in their military and they haven't the vision nor will to fight "over there " --


Japan could have returned to major power status it they had been let off the chain sooner - they have been militarizing rapidly since around 2010-2012?


I think the bigger point is that the US-"led" western military dominance is ending -

I could do this better it we were face to face sipping shirley temples and whatnot

 

[bigblueinsanity]

There's plenty in Ukraine.

If you mean Ukraine using people to disseminate information - yes i agree but.....thats exactly my point. In every other major conflict the us had reporters there, dangerous as it was. Here there nothing anyone can independently verify because it all comes from one of the two actors both of which have heavy gains to make from painting it in their favor.

The zelinsky flight stuff is the easiest most glaring key that something isnt as we're told. No way in any war does a combatant state know and agree to let the other combatant state's president fly freely around the globe to recruit resources and sympathy that will aid in that campaign. It makes zero sense and is the most clear indication we have no clue whats happening.

 

[vhcat70]

Damnation. - i don't think i addressed your question ...at least not very well

Thats a good question - tricky too
I think you can kind of rank national militaries into 3 tiers?

There are a few examples of elite military powers - and I would probably include smaller nations that effectively wield economic or alliance based schemes to project power (Israel)

China has to be included at the top and they are formally aligned with Russia , and Iran -+ other Islamic nations etc)

Countries like Sweden , Spain, Italy, Poland , The Netherlands or Denmark - - haven't seriously invested in their military and they haven't the vision nor will to fight "over there " --


Japan could have returned to major power status it they had been let off the chain sooner - they have been militarizing rapidly since around 2010-2012?


I think the bigger point is that the US-"led" western military dominance is ending -

I could do this better it we were face to face sipping shirley temples and whatnot

One I left out is Finland.

 

[CastleRubric]

One I left out is Finland.

They fkked up Stalins communist invaders in 1941 I believe
Stalin had to negotiate an exit?

Plus - wasn't it Finland the US hockey team played for gold after upsetting the USSR in 1980?

Sheeeiiit, VanHalenMan - now im just talking Crazy Talk at you, cuz

Quick!!!!

Name another finland fact !!!

 

[vhcat70]

They fkked up Stalins communist invaders in 1941 I believe
Stalin had to negotiate an exit?

Plus - wasn't it Finland the US hockey team played for gold after upsetting the USSR in 1980?

Sheeeiiit, VanHalenMan - now im just talking Crazy Talk at you, cuz

Quick!!!!

Name another finland fact !!!

Like Hungary, the language is ununderstandable even in print. Can't begin to interpret anything.

 

[CastleRubric]

Like Hungary, the language is ununderstandable even in print. Can't begin to interpret anything.

There are some weird examples of places like that, man
Where the language doesn't seem to have any close analog or their overall identities fall behind the couch of human consciousness

That was funny in my head; Edward VH -
I don't actually talk like that to people -

Not REALLY

 

[vhcat70]

I'm reading the area Ukraine "controls" in Russia is about 600 sq. mi. Trying to comprehend, that's about the size of two Ky counties.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Or you know. How every war has ever been. Where do you think the term ''the first casualty in war, is truth'' came from? The nazis were telling Germans their army was pushing the US+UK to the sea. While Russian and American tanks were circling Berlin.

---
Uh, no, US tanks weren't circling Berlin. The closest US armor got during the Battle of Berlin was around 100 miles. The Soviet First Belorussian Front (Marshal Georgy Zhukov) & the Soviet First Ukrainian Front (Marshal Ivan Konev) encircled Berlin on April 20, 1945. The Soviets captured Berlin in late April 1945, while US & British forces didn't enter the city until early July 1945. Looks like truth is a casualty here, too.

 

[vhcat70]

Reading there's anarchy in the region of Ukraine's attacks in Russia and not just in the areas they control, but also where evacuations are happening. No police presence. Russians themselves looting Russians. People feel abandoned by the government. Perhaps it's propaganda.

 

[JumperJack]

---
Uh, no, US tanks weren't circling Berlin. The closest US armor got during the Battle of Berlin was around 100 miles. The Soviet First Belorussian Front (Marshal Georgy Zhukov) & the Soviet First Ukrainian Front (Marshal Ivan Konev) encircled Berlin on April 20, 1945. The Soviets captured Berlin in late April 1945, while US & British forces didn't enter the city until early July 1945. Looks like truth is a casualty here, too.

It’s close enough, right?

Much like the reasoning for our broke government pouring billions into someone else’s war.

 

[The-Hack]

K

Reading there's anarchy in the region of Ukraine's attacks in Russia and not just in the areas they control, but also where evacuations are happening. No police presence. Russians themselves looting Russians. People feel abandoned by the government. Perhaps it's propaganda.

Sounds like an American Hurricane . . . but we have days to prepare for those.

 

[The-Hack]

Name another finland fact !!!

Ismo, a rising comedian, is Finnish.

In one YouTube vid he addresses the persistent rumor that he is in fact American, but is faking his “Finnishness.”

“If it was true that I am an American faking a foreign accent, then why the F@ck would I choose Finland?”

 

[The-Hack]

It seems that the only guaranteed outcome of any of this frantic cluster-fkk-on-stilts -- is a bankrupt and exhausted planet that will DESIRE -- A New .:::"Order" per se'🤠👺

Are you talking forced euthanasia/population reduction, one-world government, a loss of the trade status of the US dollar , . . . .

Or . . . .

Some real serious Sh!t?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

We never had any accurate information about what's going on over there. Never ever. That's my point all along about why we should immediately stop money until at least the American people are given actual facts about what's happening.

This weird fog obscuring any fact can only mean they don't want us to know. In turn that means only one thing - us knowing would be bad which means its all probably lies and our entire involvement should end post haste

This is such a simplistic view that I wont bother trying to correct it.

 

[The-Hack]

I'm reading the area Ukraine "controls" in Russia is about 600 sq. mi. Trying to comprehend, that's about the size of two Ky counties.

About right!!

And in a war where gains have been measured in hundreds of meters since June of 2022, I wouldn’t expect Ukraine to grab more than they can then dig in to defend.

 

[entropy13]

Wondering if Ukraine intends to try and hold the territory, or if it's more of hit, grab materiel, POWs, and intel, and fade operation. This also puts the lie to escalation fairy. Well past time for the lily-livered Biden admin to remove all restrictions on the use of U.S. weapons. Germany just did so.

 

[RunninRichie]

---
Uh, no, US tanks weren't circling Berlin. The closest US armor got during the Battle of Berlin was around 100 miles. The Soviet First Belorussian Front (Marshal Georgy Zhukov) & the Soviet First Ukrainian Front (Marshal Ivan Konev) encircled Berlin on April 20, 1945. The Soviets captured Berlin in late April 1945, while US & British forces didn't enter the city until early July 1945. Looks like truth is a casualty here, too.

Not sure if this is satire. Patton was denied the order to go into Berlin first. They were told to stop in Czechoslovakia. He was pretty pissed when he learned about the mass rapes.

“For the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped''.


Both the USSR and Nazi party were evil. We should have kept pushing all the way to Moscow.

Good chance we don't even have this war in Ukraine right now. Russia needed to be ''de-commiefied''. Like Germany was de-nazified. And how we rewrote Japan's government. Putin wants the former USSR countries back. Millions of lives could have been saved too. But now, we have people in this country openly wanting to try communism. Massive failure on our part.

 

[RunninRichie]

It’s close enough, right?

Much like the reasoning for our broke government pouring billions into someone else’s war.

End the federal reserve.

 

[vhcat70]

Not sure if this is satire. Patton was denied the order to go into Berlin first. They were told to stop in Czechoslovakia. He was pretty pissed when he learned about the mass rapes.

“For the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped''.


Both the USSR and Nazi party were evil. We should have kept pushing all the way to Moscow.

Good chance we don't even have this war in Ukraine right now. Russia needed to be ''de-commiefied''. Like Germany was de-nazified. And how we rewrote Japan's government. Putin wants the former USSR countries back. Millions of lives could have been saved too. But now, we have people in this country openly wanting to try communism. Massive failure on our part.

After 4 years, just what American people wanted: Now taking on the largest army in the world. LOL.

 

[RunninRichie]

After 4 years, just what American people wanted: Now taking on the largest army in the world. LOL.

That's why they didn't do it. They would never be able to drum up support. Especially after their role in defeating Hitler. People were tired of the war and death.

 

[Spica Orbit]

Not sure if this is satire. Patton was denied the order to go into Berlin first. They were told to stop in Czechoslovakia. He was pretty pissed when he learned about the mass rapes.

“For the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped''.


Both the USSR and Nazi party were evil. We should have kept pushing all the way to Moscow.

Good chance we don't even have this war in Ukraine right now. Russia needed to be ''de-commiefied''. Like Germany was de-nazified. And how we rewrote Japan's government. Putin wants the former USSR countries back. Millions of lives could have been saved too. But now, we have people in this country openly wanting to try communism. Massive failure on our part.

Where in the world do you get your history, GI Joe comics & Hollywood? BTW, Patton was only concerned about Patton.

 

[RunninRichie]

Where in the world do you get your history, GI Joe comics & Hollywood? BTW, Patton was only concerned about Patton.

Google operation unthinkable, patriot.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Hopefully no overextended supply lines. Sounds like they drove right in.

Ukrainian troops 'entered Russia's Kursk easily'

Ukrainian troops who entered Russia's Kursk this past week say they took the Russians by surprise.

www.bbc.com

 

[Spica Orbit]

Google operation unthinkable, patriot.

---
If you actually believe US armor was circling Berlin, you need to crack open a WW2 history book, slick. Google ain't your friend.

 

[vhcat70]

For those that take a view that Ukraine is meaningless to the US, I think this shows that's only true if Europe and Taiwan are also meaningless.

"Some of these analysts’ conclusions about the war in Ukraine—for instance, that the United States’ domestic consensus in favor of arming Kyiv would falter—have been borne out. But other realities are conspicuously absent from the Chinese public discourse. China has, in fact, incurred costs as a result of Putin’s war and Beijing’s economic and diplomatic support for it. Europe has not completely turned its back on China, but the country’s deepening relationship with Russia has caused a significant deterioration in its relations with many European countries that cannot easily be reversed. And the symmetry between Putin’s lust to seize Ukrainian territory and Beijing’s long-standing appetite to absorb Taiwan has provoked the United States and its allies in the Indo-Pacific to harden their defenses.

These blind spots matter because in China, the war in Ukraine is serving as both an observatory and a laboratory as the country prepares for heightened geopolitical conflict with the United States. As they analyze events in Ukraine, Chinese scholars seek to assess the United States’ and Europe’s resolve and understand what risks China might be forced to bear in a geopolitical or military crisis. Some experts, such as the leading military strategist Zhou Bo, have concluded that NATO’s hesitancy to make certain major interventions on Ukraine’s behalf proves that, aside from the United States, Taiwan would lack defenders in a future conflict with China. Although these scholars tend to be careful not to discuss the contours of a potential war in the Taiwan Strait too explicitly, many seem to be drawing a straight line from the cracks in the United States’ determination to support Ukraine and its likely will to stomach a possible protracted conflict with Beijing."

China Is in Denial About the War in Ukraine

Why Chinese thinkers underestimate the costs of complicity in Russia’s aggression.

www.foreignaffairs.com

 

[JumperJack]

End the federal reserve.

I’m not sure if that can save us at this point.

 

[CastleRubric]

Reading there's anarchy in the region of Ukraine's attacks in Russia and not just in the areas they control, but also where evacuations are happening. No police presence. Russians themselves looting Russians. People feel abandoned by the government. Perhaps it's propaganda.

Think we mentioned this the other night
This isn't a detailed article on the F16 sale to Ukraine

This just seems to confirm the transfer of the jets happened in July

Bloomberg Article

I'm also reading through the 2024 Nat'l Defense Authorization Act & noted that the retirement of the F16 was halted

Interestingly for the A10 - 158 was the target # to maintain - that was reduced to about 138 with a caveat that we can only transfer fhe "surplus" ro an allied nation OR - partner

So there's a good chance someone is getting almost 20 A10s

They've never been offered as a foreign sale