The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

[JumperJack]

Why must cluster bombs be sent to Ukraine? Whose idea is this?

The hubris of leaders who have no care for consequences. We only have to look at their lockdowns and subsequent money printing to see that they either can’t or won’t think about unintended effects.

They’d rather keep the killing going than look at the alternative.

 

[vhcat70]

The hubris of leaders who have no care for consequences. We only have to look at their lockdowns and subsequent money printing to see that they either can’t or won’t think about unintended effects.

They’d rather keep the killing going than look at the alternative.

Define "the alternative"? Ukraine conceding territory? Which? How much? Or "the alternative" is something else?

 

[JumperJack]

Define "the alternative"? Ukraine conceding territory? Which? How much? Or "the alternative" is something else?

Yes, that’s the alternative. Cede territory or have never-ending war.

Sometimes you pick the lesser of two evils.

 

[Nightwish84]

And there you have it. Just give Putin (the invader) what he wants. Maybe that's why Trump says only he can end the war in 24 hrs but refuses to say how. He's the only person in that position who'd tell Ukraine on the world's stage to back down, surrender, and give Putin a chunk, if not all of, the country he chose to invade to Russia.

There's not wanting continued war and there's straight up being a puss and lowering yourself to siding with a guy like Putin. A few here have unfortunately taken that position, more than likely just because it's what the likes of Trump and Carlson want. Folks love talking up the Greatest Generation and America itself, but I didn't think we'd reach a point where some would be okay forcing another countries' hand in an attempt to help a piece of shit like Putin win a war he chose. Pretty pathetic all around, but luckily this country isn't going to take Putin's side in this mess he created.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

And there you have it. Just give Putin (the invader) what he wants. Maybe that's why Trump says only he can end the war in 24 hrs but refuses to say how. He's the only person in that position who'd tell Ukraine on the world's stage to back down, surrender, and give Putin a chunk, if not all of, the country he chose to invade to Russia.

There's not wanting continued war and there's straight up being a puss and lowering yourself to siding with a guy like Putin. A few here have unfortunately taken that position, more than likely just because it's what the likes of Trump and Carlson want. Folks love talking up the Greatest Generation and America itself, but I didn't think we'd reach a point where some would be okay forcing another countries' hand in an attempt to help a piece of shit like Putin win a war he chose. Pretty pathetic all around, but luckily this country isn't going to take Putin's side in this mess he created.

So, you support sending cluster bombs? If it takes a nuke to oust Putin, should that be done?

Hearing someone sitting in the US call people desiring peace “pusses” is laughable. If you start a go-fund-me to pay for your trip to fight Russians, I will consider a donation. I am all for the non-pusses getting over there and winning the war against Russia, if you think you can.

But, for message board warriors calling others pusses for seeing a never ending war as evil, well, you aren’t very convincing.

 

[vhcat70]

Yes, that’s the alternative. Cede territory or have never-ending war.

Sometimes you pick the lesser of two evils.

So Russia totally taking over Ukraine and threating Poland+ is fine by you? Western Europe?

 

[JumperJack]

So Russia totally taking over Ukraine and threating Poland+ is fine by you? Western Europe?

Lol. Christ Almighty. I cannot believe you actually think an invasion of NATO territory is a thing that can happen.

 

[JumperJack]

So, you support sending cluster bombs? If it takes a nuke to oust Putin, should that be done?

Hearing someone sitting in the US call people desiring peace “pusses” is laughable. If you start a go-fund-me to pay for your trip to fight Russians, I will consider a donation. I am all for the non-pusses getting over there and winning the war against Russia, if you think you can.

But, for message board warriors calling others pusses for seeing a never ending war as evil, well, you aren’t very convincing.

These guys are on another planet. Ukraine has practically no hope of driving the Russians out and yet they STILL want it go on.

 

[Bill Cosby]

These guys are on another planet. Ukraine has practically no hope of driving the Russians out and yet they STILL want it go on.

Spoken like a true poutin Putin Ivan lover.

The rest of us are ready to support what the Biden administration once said could constitute a war crime, in order to enforce our moral superiority across the globe.

 

[vhcat70]

Lol. Christ Almighty. I cannot believe you actually think an invasion of NATO territory is a thing that can happen.

I don't see what NATO has to do with a country being invaded & support for them. It's like NATO is some kind of magic act to you. Oh, since Ukraine doesn't matter, let's get out of NATO & none of Europe is our concern.

 

[JumperJack]

I don't see what NATO has to do with a country being invaded & support for them. It's like NATO is some kind of magic act to you. Oh, since Ukraine doesn't matter, let's get out of NATO & none of Europe is our concern.

This is so incomprehensible that I don’t know how to respond.

YOU are the one who said Russia would threaten Poland and Western Europe. Remember that? A few posts ago?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Yes, that’s the alternative. Cede territory or have never-ending war.

Sometimes you pick the lesser of two evils.

What makes you think Putin would stop with round 2 of land theft?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I am still waiting for someone to tell me why giving cluster bombs to Ukraine is a good idea.

 

[vhcat70]

This is so incomprehensible that I don’t know how to respond.

YOU are the one who said Russia would threaten Poland and Western Europe. Remember that? A few posts ago?

I believe you can't comprehend my post.

Yes, I did say that.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I am still waiting for someone to tell me why giving cluster bombs to Ukraine is a good idea.

You won't get one. At best it will be the "do anything" type of lines that should give everyone pause to this stuff. Instead it's full go with no end in sight

 

[Bill Cosby]

You won't get one. At best it will be the "do anything" type of lines that should give everyone pause to this stuff. Instead it's full go with no end in sight

It’s actually a smart move. When we get tired of Ukraine and leave, we can abandon the cluster bombs like we did all the weapons in Afghanistan and will be able to start a new war against some terrorists to make sure they never use those cluster bombs against America.

Just think of it as seed funding for the next MIC venture.

 

[JumperJack]

What makes you think Putin would stop with round 2 of land theft?

Because I don’t think he has the capability. That much has been exposed.

Also, the Europeans can spend THEIR money to bolster Ukraine, since Ukraine is on their flank.

 

[Bill Cosby]

So what’s the point of NATO announcing Ukraine will be given easier entry into NATO with some of the usual hurdles dropped when the time is right?

Unless the west plans to go all out WWIII with US boots on the ground (as opposed to just special ops), entry won’t happen until the war is over.

Russia had previously stated entry into NATO was a line in the sand.

So what does this announcement do other than signal to Russia, they’re either going to lose and suffer the embarrassment of having the line in the sand crossed, or they need to destroy Ukraine completely so it can never join NATO?

In what scenario does this not lead to WWIII at best, and/or nuclear war at worst?

 

[JumperJack]

So what’s the point of NATO announcing Ukraine will be given easier entry into NATO with some of the usual hurdles dropped when the time is right?

Unless the west plans to go all out WWIII with US boots on the ground (as opposed to just special ops), entry won’t happen until the war is over.

Russia had previously stated entry into NATO was a line in the sand.

So what does this announcement do other than signal to Russia, they’re either going to lose and suffer the embarrassment of having the line in the sand crossed, or they need to destroy Ukraine completely so it can never join NATO?

In what scenario does this not lead to WWIII at best, and/or nuclear war at worst?

Completely correct. The entire undertaking assumes that Russia will just meekly go along with it.

 

[Marleydogg]

I don't see what NATO has to do with a country being invaded & support for them. It's like NATO is some kind of magic act to you. Oh, since Ukraine doesn't matter, let's get out of NATO & none of Europe is our concern.

Poland is a member of NATO. Ukraine isn't. Simple. Article 5 and all. And for the most part, no, Europe should not be our concern.. let them handle their business.

 

[Marleydogg]

What makes you think Putin would stop with round 2 of land theft?

What makes you think he wouldn't?

 

[RunninRichie]

So what’s the point of NATO announcing Ukraine will be given easier entry into NATO with some of the usual hurdles dropped when the time is right?

Unless the west plans to go all out WWIII with US boots on the ground (as opposed to just special ops), entry won’t happen until the war is over.

Russia had previously stated entry into NATO was a line in the sand.

So what does this announcement do other than signal to Russia, they’re either going to lose and suffer the embarrassment of having the line in the sand crossed, or they need to destroy Ukraine completely so it can never join NATO?

In what scenario does this not lead to WWIII at best, and/or nuclear war at worst?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

So what’s the point of NATO announcing Ukraine will be given easier entry into NATO with some of the usual hurdles dropped when the time is right?

Unless the west plans to go all out WWIII with US boots on the ground (as opposed to just special ops), entry won’t happen until the war is over.

Russia had previously stated entry into NATO was a line in the sand.

So what does this announcement do other than signal to Russia, they’re either going to lose and suffer the embarrassment of having the line in the sand crossed, or they need to destroy Ukraine completely so it can never join NATO?

In what scenario does this not lead to WWIII at best, and/or nuclear war at worst?

This is really it. There is no motivation other than to force escalate this into a potential global conflict. They must just want rid of Russia no matter the costs.

I am certainly no fan of Russia. I'm even less fan of sending kids to die on behalf of Ukraine, and less still of facing nuclear holocaust.

Is getting rid of Russia really so important we're willing to risk Armageddon? I'm going to need way more justification for accepting this level of risk and I highly doubt it will be presented. I just don't see what we have to gain, at all really, but especially not such valuable consideration we're willing to risk this

 

[warrior-cat]

Poland is a member of NATO. Ukraine isn't. Simple. Article 5 and all. And for the most part, no, Europe should not be our concern.. let them handle their business.

It is just stupid how so many people want us to be like Europe, but Europe can't even take care of themselves without our help. So then, if we become like Europe the whole world suffers.

Or, it could all be just a ruse and our politicians are using this situation to funnel taxpayer money into that region to be laundered and sent to back to everyone involved.

 

[JumperJack]

The Uniparty speaks.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The Uniparty speaks.

View embedded media

Last week’s war crime is this week’s patriotism

 

[vhcat70]

Poland is a member of NATO. Ukraine isn't. Simple. Article 5 and all. And for the most part, no, Europe should not be our concern.. let them handle their business.

It's not simple, as you claim, that a country should/should not be supported because it happens to be or not a joint member of an organization. Mexico is not a member of any defense org the US is a member of. So it can be invaded without US interest? And I go back tp those claiming we should be concerned if China has a base in Cuba - another country we don't have a pact with.

No Idea what "for the most part" means. What is it & how do you decide? But if you say none of Europe is our concern & we should get out of NATO, I'm Ok with that as your position. Not mine of course, but OK. But "most part" is mealy mouthed half assness.

 

[vhcat70]

So what’s the point of NATO announcing Ukraine will be given easier entry into NATO with some of the usual hurdles dropped when the time is right?

Unless the west plans to go all out WWIII with US boots on the ground (as opposed to just special ops), entry won’t happen until the war is over.

Russia had previously stated entry into NATO was a line in the sand.

So what does this announcement do other than signal to Russia, they’re either going to lose and suffer the embarrassment of having the line in the sand crossed, or they need to destroy Ukraine completely so it can never join NATO?

In what scenario does this not lead to WWIII at best, and/or nuclear war at worst?

So you now believe what Russia says? LOL. None of this leads to WW3 & such talk is gibberish.

 

[vhcat70]

This is really it. There is no motivation other than to force escalate this into a potential global conflict. They must just want rid of Russia no matter the costs.

I am certainly no fan of Russia. I'm even less fan of sending kids to die on behalf of Ukraine, and less still of facing nuclear holocaust.

Is getting rid of Russia really so important we're willing to risk Armageddon? I'm going to need way more justification for accepting this level of risk and I highly doubt it will be presented. I just don't see what we have to gain, at all really, but especially not such valuable consideration we're willing to risk this

People here get claiming/citing risk & provide no logical justification for it. It's all made up emotion-filled blabber that this circle jerk has convinced itself of.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Because I don’t think he has the capability. That much has been exposed.

Also, the Europeans can spend THEIR money to bolster Ukraine, since Ukraine is on their flank.

Ah, but you made the same claims before we all knew he was mostly a paper tiger.

 

[AustinTXCat]

These British missiles kick serious ass. Wow.

Ukraine took out a senior Russian general with a Storm Shadow missile nearly 100 miles behind the front line: reports.​

 

[JumperJack]

Ah, but you made the same claims before we all knew he was mostly a paper tiger.

I’m not sure exactly what claim you’re referring to but there’s no question they should be paying for most if not all of Ukraine’s defense.

 

[CastleRubric]

Yes, that’s the alternative. Cede territory or have never-ending war.

Sometimes you pick the lesser of two evils.

OR - go back to the original Minsk Treaty
Both sides were negotiating it -
Familiar and reasonable terms

Encourage the non-regional actors to butt out while they parlay

Polly-Anna-ish probably

 

[CastleRubric]

So you now believe what Russia says? LOL. None of this leads to WW3 & such talk is gibberish.

Actually, I think resetting the world's economy - leads to WW3

That and other factors BUT - i ain't gonna ramble

 

[CastleRubric]

Keep in mind when talking about Russia - you are also talking about their alliance partners - China

Recall their treaty signed roughly 2 yrs ago

You get a 2 for 1 deal with any future conflicts there

So are we ready to fight them both?

 

[bcw1029]

Completely correct. The entire undertaking assumes that Russia will just meekly go along with it.

Ukraine gets to decide if it wants to be in NATO, the decision is not up to Russia. Funny how many posters here believe in Taiwan’s sovereignty but not Ukraine’s. Polls in Ukraine (depending on region) show anywhere from 70-85% of the population want to be in NATO.

The time has long since passed that respectable nations of the international community give any flying f*****s about what Russia wants for Ukraine’s security umbrella. Oh no, drunk lilliputian Medvedev threatened nukes again, just like he did with Sweden and Finland’s entry into NATO. He threatens nukes on a weekly basis after having his vodka breakfast, it’s called little man syndrome.

 

[JumperJack]

Ukraine gets to decide if it wants to be in NATO, the decision is not up to Russia. Funny how many posters here believe in Taiwan’s sovereignty but not Ukraine’s. Polls in Ukraine (depending on region) show anywhere from 70-85% of the population want to be in NATO.

The time has long since passed that respectable nations of the international community give any flying f*****s about what Russia wants for Ukraine’s security umbrella. Oh no, drunk lilliputian Medvedev threatened nukes again, just like he did with Sweden and Finland’s entry into NATO. He threatens nukes on a weekly basis after having his vodka breakfast, it’s called little man syndrome.

How Russia reacts is not up to us. That’s the point, and the only point that matters.

The rest of what you’ve said here are your feelings. They have nothing to do with the reality of Russia.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Ukraine gets to decide if it wants to be in NATO, the decision is not up to Russia. Funny how many posters here believe in Taiwan’s sovereignty but not Ukraine’s. Polls in Ukraine (depending on region) show anywhere from 70-85% of the population want to be in NATO.

The time has long since passed that respectable nations of the international community give any flying f*****s about what Russia wants for Ukraine’s security umbrella. Oh no, drunk lilliputian Medvedev threatened nukes again, just like he did with Sweden and Finland’s entry into NATO. He threatens nukes on a weekly basis after having his vodka breakfast, it’s called little man syndrome.

The Ukraine doesn’t decide shit. The military, and financial backers of NATO, i.e. the United States, decides if they want in. And the only reason the US would decide to let Ukraine in at this point is if the US wants to fight WWIII, rather than just a proxy war.

People care(d) more about Taiwan due to tech and chip manufacturing that US industry is dependent upon. It’s not about Taiwan’s sovereignty, it’s about US domestic security. That ship has all but sailed at this point, we just need to ensure manufacturing is coming online as quickly as possible.

With the invasion taking place at our southern border, and the grip the CCP has on a large number of high ranking politicians in this country (as well as the social/educational war they’re waging with apps like tik tok), we should be looking inward and not giving a second of thought to guarding the sovereignty of Ukraine.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Ukraine gets to decide if it wants to be in NATO, the decision is not up to Russia. Funny how many posters here believe in Taiwan’s sovereignty but not Ukraine’s. Polls in Ukraine (depending on region) show anywhere from 70-85% of the population want to be in NATO.

The time has long since passed that respectable nations of the international community give any flying f*****s about what Russia wants for Ukraine’s security umbrella. Oh no, drunk lilliputian Medvedev threatened nukes again, just like he did with Sweden and Finland’s entry into NATO. He threatens nukes on a weekly basis after having his vodka breakfast, it’s called little man syndrome.

Who are the posters who don’t believe in Ukraine’s sovereignty?

As citizens of the US, some of us have opinions about what US interests should implicate US involvement in wars. Those interests are far more clear to me as to Taiwan than to Ukraine. And, some of us see this as a never ending war which will crush innocent Ukrainians and innocent Russians. But, that has nothing to do with the fact that Ukraine is a sovereign nation. We have let sovereign nations fall in the past. Our interests dictate how we respond. People can disagree about those interests.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine get to decide if Ukraine is a member of NATO. NATO membership decides that. And, giving Ukraine NATO membership because it was attacked by Russia is a bad plan, especially if the rights to membership will not be conveyed. But, as said before, the process should not be based on this war. Now, giving Ukraine a pathway to NATO membership seems like a reasonable continued plan.

 

[bcw1029]

The Ukraine doesn’t decide shit. The military, and financial backers of NATO, i.e. the United States, decides if they want in. And the only reason the US would decide to let Ukraine in at this point is if the US wants to fight WWIII, rather than just a proxy war.

People care(d) more about Taiwan due to tech and chip manufacturing that US industry is dependent upon. It’s not about Taiwan’s sovereignty, it’s about US domestic security. That ship has all but sailed at this point, we just need to ensure manufacturing is coming online as quickly as possible.

With the invasion taking place at our southern border, and the grip the CCP has on a large number of high ranking politicians in this country (as well as the social/educational war they’re waging with apps like tik tok), we should be looking inward and not giving a second of thought to guarding the sovereignty of Ukraine.

There’s no indication whatsoever that NATO/U.S. are going to admit Ukraine until after the war is over. What Russia wants or demands is irrelevant.

The foundries being built in Columbus and Phoenix are a positive first step towards domestic chip security.