There you go again. Paint with that giant brush. The fact that we value sovereignty is precisely why we favor helping Ukraine. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
Reason.com - Pentagon Can't Account for $220 Billion in Weapons Given to Contractors
I think they actually say 'gear'
My only angle here is -- accountability should be applied
Or, if that's not possible, context like this will hopefully factor in to ppl's thoughts and conversations
This is just talking about stuff that was 'lost'
Doesn't include shit we KNOW we provided to 'moderates' etc
One marine returns from patrol with a single lost rifle however ....BURN THAT FKKER DOWN
In the Air Force it was our Dungeons and Dragons books we couldn't part with
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
(actually I DO play D&D)
I think they actually say 'gear'
My only angle here is -- accountability should be applied
Or, if that's not possible, context like this will hopefully factor in to ppl's thoughts and conversations
This is just talking about stuff that was 'lost'
Doesn't include shit we KNOW we provided to 'moderates' etc
One marine returns from patrol with a single lost rifle however ....BURN THAT FKKER DOWN
In the Air Force it was our Dungeons and Dragons books we couldn't part with
(actually I DO play D&D)
This has been a serious problem, forever probably. There are so many moving parts i don't see how they could ever really keep up with it. They need to do much, much better but we should understand there is going to be a certain % of shrinkage and just live with it.Reason.com - Pentagon Can't Account for $220 Billion in Weapons Given to Contractors
I think they actually say 'gear'
My only angle here is -- accountability should be applied
Or, if that's not possible, context like this will hopefully factor in to ppl's thoughts and conversations
This is just talking about stuff that was 'lost'
Doesn't include shit we KNOW we provided to 'moderates' etc
One marine returns from patrol with a single lost rifle however ....BURN THAT FKKER DOWN
In the Air Force it was our Dungeons and Dragons books we couldn't part with
(actually I DO play D&D)
Now, when it comes to contractors we should at least have some real demands in place. I would think contractors wouldn't be under the same movement/destruction pressure the regular military is under and could keep tight records.
I can't honestly parse out what's baked into those #'s -- but I think we all know that's not a good news report
Here's an AP Report from about 2 years ago where the problem was again pointed out and - "were trying to do something about it" kind of thing -- you DO get some examples of what types of things were.......lost
AP News Article on Lost Weapons
I will try to link others since I think I'd heard where an actual FMS (foreign military sale) to Pakistan (why?) resulted in arms being funneled elsewhere.....
Doesn't sound like very good. 'gun control' does it?
Flashback to 2007 just for fun - Biden states that "if you leave military weapons in Afghanistan...they will be used against your grandchildren"
C-SPAN Link
^^ only posting out the weird irony of that statement when compared to what's happened since we pulled out of Afghanistan recently -- links below detail arms left behind and some details on how they're moving around through other nations and proxies
________
EDITS for additional links on the topic:
Bakersfield Ch23 News - Stolen Military Arms and Street Crime
^ This one does make a link between lost/stolen military arms and street crime....also I LOVE how it shows where the weapons came from by service....the Army leads the way and the Air Force just gets thrown in with "OTHER"
Foreign Policy Link - Billions Left in Afghanistan
Here's the one that is most concerning -- the way we retreated fm Afghanistan was shameful - and the incredible amount of weapons left behind is staggering and inexcusable
(I've had a personal conversation or two with recently separate Marines that gave specifics on how they were ordered NOT to render the arms unusable NOR to guard their location as they planned to depart)
NBC News - Abandoned US Arms Used in India's Conflict
NBC reports 2 days ago that some of the items left in Afghanistan found their way to India and are being gainfully employed again......
Eurasian Times - US Weapons to Russia - Via Taliban?
And here's one that I'm seeing in a couple of places out there - unthinkable that those weapons might actually be working their way into the hands of the one nation that the West brands as their biggest threat etc - WILL LOOK FOR MORE ON THIS SINCE ITS THE FIRST IVE HEARD OF IT
The part about the Taliban seizing the weapons is DEFINITELY TRUE (Link below) -- we have to ask -- would they SELL THEM to outsiders (yes) - would they have qualms about selling them to Russia? (no) -- so the idea that our weapons may come back & be pointed at our own troops passes the sniff test IMO
WSJ - US Arms Seized by Taliban
An older article noting that Iran has started playing the role of intermediator -- for brokering arms sales between the Taliban and Russia
MEI.edu LInk
Finally -- what would the Taliban get in exchange for selling abandoned US arms to Russia?
Gas - Oil and Wheat .......and possibly the satisfaction of besting the US military again -- link below
Bloomberg Article - Taliban and Russia Trade Channels
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So we didn't have the right to leave England? We are still technically subjects of the King? LOL.
Its arguable they were provoked though. 100's of former intel officers in our government have said that if we tried to get Ukraine into Nato that Russia would react. It was also widely reported, at the time, that nazi groups were targeting pro Russian Ukrainians'. It gets to the point that you say people have the right to decide their own future but then when certain Ukrainians want to align with Russia we don't care how those people feel.
People want to look at this like its a pretty simple scenario. Truth is... The US state dept, CIA and Nato have a lot of blame in this war and tons of people in Europe knew it would happen and warned about it... so is it 'unprovoked'?
Exactly. If our leaders truly believed in a free market economy they would have followed Minsk agreement and made Western Ukraine so prosperous that Eastern Ukraine wanted to be more part of whole. Instead, they just shelled them and told them to leave.... That's what winners do. LOL. The reason those people wanted to be closer to Russia is because they were broke and had no jobs and the government was corrupt as hell. They knew people in Russia that had better circumstances than Ukraine had without giving up their identity.
The deal on the table after the invasion would have had Ukraine intact, but they had to remove all militaries from Donbas and outlaw the nazi militias. Litter ali could have stopped all this killing and Ukraine still been a whole country.
Yea. We only have 700+ military bases in 130 countries. We totally don't bully people.
Yea... but Ukraine is stealing at least 20% of the aid we send. Kickbacks don't come out of thin air.
Wait til you see the drones they want. Graham was on tv making the case for them. Satellite guided drones that avoid radar... He said "you just push a button and Russians fall over dead".... That is the level of our leaders today.
Yea. It's just a list of people that seem to die at a high rate and when they die, they cross out their name. Totally not a kill list.
"Unprovoked" and "NATO membership was not on the table" is admitting ignorance about the realities of what led up to the war.
You can't have substantive discourse nor reach justified conclusions/understanding while knowing so little. Indeed, what I read from you pro Ukrainian war people here can only be "justfied" through ignorance and negligence of the facts.
You aren't anti-war. Your rhetoric is not consistent with that being true, just as our actions collectively in the west aren't, and of course your assessment of what I think bears no resemblance to what I actually do.
The people in the southeast by and large are pro-Russian; I know hit's hard for you to imagine that, but it's true. They should be allowed self-governance, self-determination, and permitted their culture without western interference, or they should fight it out on their own terms who controls that (otherwise meaningless) strip of land and its resources. If Ukrainians want to ethnically cleanse and oppress/destroy their Russian population, then let them do so on their own dime; we should not be funding it. It is NOT who we are as Americans.
You can't have substantive discourse nor reach justified conclusions/understanding while knowing so little. Indeed, what I read from you pro Ukrainian war people here can only be "justfied" through ignorance and negligence of the facts.
You aren't anti-war. Your rhetoric is not consistent with that being true, just as our actions collectively in the west aren't, and of course your assessment of what I think bears no resemblance to what I actually do.
The people in the southeast by and large are pro-Russian; I know hit's hard for you to imagine that, but it's true. They should be allowed self-governance, self-determination, and permitted their culture without western interference, or they should fight it out on their own terms who controls that (otherwise meaningless) strip of land and its resources. If Ukrainians want to ethnically cleanse and oppress/destroy their Russian population, then let them do so on their own dime; we should not be funding it. It is NOT who we are as Americans.
Yet people in this thread and everywhere call you pro Russian and pro Putin if you want peace. Weird.
If he talks to Putin will you have a word with Zelensky? The peace deal on the table last spring would have had Ukraine intact if they pulled the military out of donbas and banned the nazi militias. I don't know how that it isn't an instant take. Also, Ukraine used the pause to reposition troops with no intent to actually negotiate. A Ukraine official was recently killed for revealing that fact.
Latest public facing information on the latest arms package to Ukraine -
Reuters Link - Additional Weapons to UKR
Reuters Link - Additional Weapons to UKR
Video from a guy that seems to know the area pretty well. He's been spot on since the Ukraine offensive in Nov. He was more correct on the nuts and bolt of that than anyone I've watched... And like I said... he seems to know the land. A famous saying "the map isn't the land"...
You value sovereignty but believe in America forcing its values? You can’t have it both ways
If you value sovereignty then you must not only condemn Russias actions but also those that led to the overthrow of a democratically elected government in 2013. You can’t pick and choose which sovereignty to value. I mean the coup and western involvement is why we are in this mess to begin with.
You touch on precisely the point I was trying to make yesterday. Autocracy and monarchies are peas in a pod. It’s up to a nations peoples to rise up if they want independence or a different form of government. It isn’t up to the USA to democratize anymore than it’s ok for China to communize. The fact that eastern Ukraine has been fighting Kyiv since 2014 is an example of a nations people striving for self determination. Those people in the east were railroaded, the president they helped put over the top overthrown. Exiled. In their eyes an illegitimate government is forcing them to bend to the west. Go look at the demographics especially the electorate. Eastern ukraine is overwhelmingly, OVERWHELMINGLY more in line with Russia than ukraine. Crimea believes it is Russian. These are disputable areas and the people aren’t going to press Russia with insurgency the way they have ukraine. How do I know you may ask?? Look at Crimea. Those people are very satisfied how things have worked out vs eastern ukraine where there have been rebel groups fighting since 2014.
We didn't vote to leave, we fought and won but only with the help of France. Do better with your "gotchas".
That was organized, funded and supplied by Russia. At any rate, we're talking about a sovereign nation. We aren't building them i to anything, they are doing it. Europe looks much better than Russia.
Yeah, they really love Russia. https://www.politico.eu/article/ami...s-crimean-views-toward-russia-start-to-shift/
Político May as well be state run media. Not to mention it’s an opinion piece. I’m not wasting my time with that 😂 the first guy they quoted voted yes for the annexation. I mean how can I get past that? Peoples lives in Crimea have a long way to go to get better. All the more reason to end the war. Go to the table zelensky.
It wasn't an opinion piece though it was labeled as such. It is anecdotal though.. Perhaps you should read it.
Actually there has been 2, unconfirmed to have anything to do with the list. I dont know where you come up with some of the terrible info you post. It isn't hard to research things. It has been used in court over a hundred times which is its primary purpose.
Get off our lawn...err..lake. Just seeing Laurel calms me whole world down. Its a special place to me.
Brunswick is probably an hour 15 minutes south if me. Back when I was going to Corbin, the Middlesboro game was a brutal battle every year. I've been in Middlesboro several times, 40+ years ago now.
What's terribly sad about this is that you can't say you prefer the Ukraine government with all its faults over Russia's, only that you don't prefer Russia's. That's really sick.
You're failing terribly by not seeing the long-term consequences of abandoning U.
Companies do & have to or they would be fined out of business, Government needs a SAP-like materials & cost flow system that tracks every dam thing. But I assume Government contains many forces that oppose uncovering graft.
BTW, I think states do a much better job of this with their need to balance budgets.
Reminds me of the actors Trump hired before coming down the escalator.
It's all a conspiracy unless it aligns precisely with your preconceptions and prejudices, what you want to be true.
Arms dealers use their contacts to move arms from industrial countries to poorer ones. None of that applies currently. He's been in prison for years, his contacts have withered. His contacts were Russian to begin with. That means moving Russian arms to those who could pay, not selling the Russians their own arms. They're using up everything they've got right now, they don't have any excess to unload on the side. Your obsession with this one irrelevant player in a much bigger game is moronic.
Wait, what? So if it isn't going to happen they were right all along. Your entire premise is that escalation could lead to nuclear war. Now you're granting nuclear war won't happen. So what's the danger in escalation then? You just admitted your own argument was nonsensical.
The Cold War is over- and our side won! The Soviet Union is no more. Many an elderly neoconservative cannot grasp either of the two concepts. This fanatical hatred of Russia from the Left is merely because of Putin supposedly helping Trump; for neoconservatives such as yourself, I honestly believe that it's a Godless Commie thing from the 50s
He said he didn't "think" it would happen, which does not necessarily mean the risk is zero. Therefore, it was not nonsensical.
How do we know it’s not happening? Why would you send you him back there in a middle of a war to a threat to the entire world?
Taking a chance For those others to have our great technology as well, even tho illegal, it’s like equality.
Plus BIG MONEY!!!! Plus 10% to the BIG GUY, whoever that is!!
We know Joe isn’t running anything now but his crooked operations, but they want Joe, Hunter & KH now gone. Who is calling the shots & currently running this country?
