I have him and most everyone in this thread on ignore, but yeah, it totally delegitimates their "argument," such that it can even be called one.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
I have him and most everyone in this thread on ignore, but yeah, it totally delegitimates their "argument," such that it can even be called one.
Are you speaking for everyone then? Isn’t that awfully presumptuous on your part?
There are no pro-Putin posters? Just a bunch of new-age Libertarians? Okay…
All the way to the deaths of their families, themselves, their cities and communities and their nation? Come on, man, there are some legitimately intelligent people in Russia who think beyond what their crazed dictator tells them. I’ve watched enough interviews with captive Russian soldiers to know that they can become aware that they’re being played by a madman.
Oh, good. Now I can put SDC888 on ignore, too, and won’t have to read his banal prattle.
A very interesting hypothetical that at least confirms the reality of "who these people are."
When the requisites of the hypothetical occur, we will have our choice. Until then, it is a hypothetical question upon a solid historical basis, and deserves advance planning, which I'm certain, it is receiving.
But as you must know, Caveman, even an expert need not answer an hypothetical question, unless based upon evidence in the record, or to be placed in the record. I see no credible evidence Ukraine cannot stop Russia.
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Ouch.
Caveman, you are better than this . . . under no definition has Germany ever been considered "Eastern Europe," the basis of the "hatred" spoken of by Catemus. For an example of what Catemus is speaking of, Google the Polish, South Korean arms agreement. Poland is more than stepping up to the plate, and it ain't 'cause they're frightened of the UK, the US or (believe it or not) Germany. Then check out Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania . . . tiny nations that are girding for the future.
Further, Finland (yeah, FINLAND) Sweden, and even Switzerland have reacted in a more assertive fashion than any of them have in centuries to Russia's invasion [sans Finland initially kicking Russia's ass in '39].
As to Angela Merkle's realpolitik, an invention of Germany's Center/Right, and consistently opposed by the US and UK, one can wonder who suffered worse from the termination of the gas transaction. Russia made a huge investment building pipelines to the West, and cut their noses off to spite their face by invading Ukraine.
And heck, in the long-term, that gas supply will be largely replaced by liquified natural gas from the Permian Basin . . . I guess that's why Russia just can't have nice things, and why we frack, frack, frack, and build, build, build compression facilities on the Atlantic/Gulf Coast!
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Fighting for their civilization? 😆😆
From what?
What do you think Ukraine is doing at the moment? Not fighting for their civilization? You’re from Europe right? Which country?
Well, strategic concerns tend to change, given time.
I'm sure Daniel Boone would have loved to support Sweden and Finland in 1808/09, but he was a little too busy kicking Native American Ass in Mizzou (and chasing Native American Ass) and felt a tad more removed from the situation.
Our strategic partners, allies and national concerns have changed a tad since those days.
I hope you are correct, but some people described as experts I have heard on the issue do not seem as confident. The Soviets were in Afghanistan for 10 years before Gorbachev pulled them out. I think Putin would have to be replaced for Russia to do the same in Ukraine. Putin may have lost some support, but many accounts say the Russians still support what they know of the current action.
Your comments before seem to indicate Ukraine is too valuable to the security of the region to fall. I suspect that is not what you meant. I hope you did not suggest we should enter the war if Ukraine appears defeated. If it falls, however, NATO will arguably be worse off than it would be if a peace treaty were entered. I know the knee jerk reaction from some is that peace is appeasement, but rational minds know otherwise.
I nominate SDC888 for the "Senator John Kerry" award. You might remember, Senator Kerry once said, "I was opposed to the legislation, before I was in favor of it."
Above, SDC beats him: Russia had no intent to use Ukraine as a stepping stone, until, in fact, he predicts Putin will then "cut off Ukraine entirely . . . uniting transnistria (sic) to russia proper."
He won't if he will,
he will if he won't
Ukraine Damned if He do,
Ukraine Damned if he don't.
Undisclosed (no, it's definitively not a pro-russia place), but yeah, that's how Russians see it (NATO in Ukraine).
I agree this is an existential fight for Ukraine; they should've tried for a peaceful solution instead of selling themselves out to be used as pawns by t
I sympathize with them as a people, but their problem is not RUssia or the Russian-Ukranians they scapegoat all their problmes, so much as it is their completely incompetent and corrupt leadership.
That's not hard at all for DT. They already had taken Crimea when he came to office. LOL.
You must have gotten an email word for word from the Kremlin.
But it's east of western Europe.Germany is not in Eastern Europe.
How much is it gonna cost us to rebuild Ukraine or what’s left of it? A helluva lot more than New Orleans.
At the same time leave sanctions on Russia for a nuked to the hilt country. Allow that country to become 1920s Germany. Yeah that will end well for those of you pissing your pants over Putin. The west will seize all Russian assets and turn it over to Ukraine. You see the frigging longterm predicament here? It’s no simple out. There aren’t alot or scenarios that don’t lead to Russia backed in a corner resorting to their nukes. That’s the strength of their military. It always has been that way since ww2.
I would say to one of these pro war guys. “Tell me how to sort out this predicament without a nuclear conflict”. Their replay would be “get rid of Putin and Russia retreat from Ukraine”. Well that crap ain’t happening so come up with another solution before we are implementing a draft. It’s a matter of time and it’s not on our side. Vhcat catemus hack you guys ready ti send your sons and daughters or your grandkids to fight for Eastern Europe? Lol wake up !
At the same time leave sanctions on Russia for a nuked to the hilt country. Allow that country to become 1920s Germany. Yeah that will end well for those of you pissing your pants over Putin. The west will seize all Russian assets and turn it over to Ukraine. You see the frigging longterm predicament here? It’s no simple out. There aren’t alot or scenarios that don’t lead to Russia backed in a corner resorting to their nukes. That’s the strength of their military. It always has been that way since ww2.
I would say to one of these pro war guys. “Tell me how to sort out this predicament without a nuclear conflict”. Their replay would be “get rid of Putin and Russia retreat from Ukraine”. Well that crap ain’t happening so come up with another solution before we are implementing a draft. It’s a matter of time and it’s not on our side. Vhcat catemus hack you guys ready ti send your sons and daughters or your grandkids to fight for Eastern Europe? Lol wake up !
Yes, he can't keep up with his own nonsensical posts. Most of us are perfectly able to admit we may be wrong but we don't think we are.
I dont think he's able to say that.
Let's see if they can keep it now that Putin's imperialistic appetite has become insatiable and NATO is expanding.
Maybe there are. I suppose you’re right although I doubt they are hiding behind every bush like some would think.
I’d say most of us want order restored asap.
Well, we’ve all asked this multiple times but again, what’s the strategic gain in prolonging war instead of peace?
Because barring a full scale occupation of Russia like we did with Germany and Japan, they’re not changing. That’s the point.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and the second largest in Europe by size.
We signed (in a written instrument) multiple assurances that we would extend them assistance should they be invaded after giving up 65% of the USSR's nuclear stockpile.
Given location, international law and our prior “assurances” of assistance, Ukraine could not be allowed to be swamped with Russians without an honest effort to fulfill our assurances and come to their aid.
I don’t think those assurances include our direct involvement, i.e., boots on the ground in Ukraine.
And I now can see no possible need of direct involvement. Ukraine has summonsed hundreds of thousands of soldiers, has as many as 50K foreign volunteers, and will see a shift in weaponry toward their advantage throughout 2023.
I strongly suspect Ukraine has or is developing tactical nukes of their own, in-as-much as the war is existential to them, and they easily possess the knowledge and the raw materials.
I hope for peace, tomorrow, as there are always dangers of mistake and incompetence in war.
Short of bloodying the nose of the clear aggressor, by a steady supply of weaponry to Ukraine, I just see no material way to bring about or affect that peace.
I am 60 years old and have seen change from the 1970’s to today in Russia, without their being occupied by us following the collapse of the Soviet Union. For all the shortcomings of their current autocratic system, it is a menacing but comparatively weak vessel compared to the days of Communism. Russian Lawyers were quoted hundreds of times by Western press advising the early conscripts how to legally avoid the War, and hundreds-to-thousands apparently did so and went home.
Stalin would have had them lined up against a wall and shot, the law-be-damned. Then the attorneys would have been shot.
Hopefully, the Russian nation has a wake-up-call, similar to the post-Afganistan War that leads to further changes internally.
The fact that there is, today, some due process of law, and a confident judiciary/bar, is a major change from the old Soviet days.
I hope there are more changes for the better for the Russian people resulting from this war.
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Yeah, the “pro-Putin” and “pro-Nazi” ad hominem posts are silly and beneath the intelligence demonstrated otherwise.
Much appreciated. My reluctant venture into that Ukraine thread was to gain insight. This post helps. Appreciated.
I've not been wrong on anything, certainly have no qualms admitting it when it's the case, adn I'm acutely aware that my posts don't make sense to you.
No way -
BUT while transitioning fm Lockheed to a new (non DoD) career chapter - I have landed two interviews there w/contractors
Have a firm offer fm UK though - that's my planned destination
Hey Hack-The-NSA
Would you be interested in getting out for coffee sometime and just have a f2f conversation?
I swear I'm not irretrievably strange or anything
Think about it, Man
You are right - I have been consistent
about describing this era of history as one that will feature a 'post american' nature +
and - yes - i DO believe the references made by international agencies and other USG/NGO reps ('the great reset') -- is real and a planned event
Makes perfect sense too
Im truly not trying to proclaim doom and gloom though - too much posting fm me in
this thread DOES tend to cast a sullen tone though
Im trying to think of other ways to post and promote good conversation without referencing Marxism, Nuclear Weapons or other such classics -- within the first five mins of typing
Go cats!
Anyone here work at the UK
hospital? Chandler B?
PS - You are partially correct about my 'falling for pulp fiction'
There HAVE been a couple of frequently repeated media lines that I accepted as valid regarding the nature of theory urgency -- these were economic in nature primarily
Not my strongest subject 😉
Having said that - I also absolutely have had unique perspectives and access to information on other topics (some weapons-technology-military related)
Annnnd --
I always try to make it clear when Im citing an opinion or a conviction etc
Hope you have a killer weekend, Capt Hack
Show me where I waS "Wrong," and I'll show you where the post just didn't make sense to you.
Sure. You have strong eclectic interests. The sign of a curious mind.
Hope you get a spot with UK. Your breadth of interests and knowledge fit in nicely with a University culture.
Thanks dude -
I AM a little 'ADHD-ish' when speaking in person too but - maturity IS occurring 😉
I think we should DEF meet at least once -
I live in The 40391 -- that's right --- THE HAarSH streets of Winchester, sir
They're completing the I9 next week -
Been talking with my manager
Will work in the basement' of UK hospital -'part of a 3_deep team that manages subcontractors and supply chains for the operating room / surgeons
I went to the hospital last week and got freaking lost twice
Do you live in Lex maybe?
If you know the hospital area well - lets meet up and walk sections of that area - i will get lunch 100% for your time & and conversation
im down at rocky top until sunday
got some concerns with local agitated crack heads currently
a serious recommendation for better exchanges on those topics:
Thread participants should ABSOLUTELY produce short, shared and concise definitions of what those words mean
I will try to come back and get the ball rolling on a test post like that -
Its worth doing
Like sativa
Yeah, that's why I responded: to distinguish it from the ad hominem pootin-stooge rootinforpootin' comments, which are solely purposed to dismiss.
That's not the same as the war is peace "argument" being made here, namely, that lasting peace can only be achieved through war.
I want what the Ukrainian people want. I see the war from their perspective since it was their country that was invaded. This is the first war that is available for viewing on YouTube and it’s easy to get their opinions about the war.
They have chosen to fight for their complete independence from Russia, something that infuriated Putin and has caused him to commit to such destruction of a sovereign nation and people.
As long as they choose to fight I think we, and the 50+ other countries who support them, should continue to help Ukraine as much as we can.
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I think of San Diego every time i see your
screen name
Then i think of dan fouts
Is there ANY CHANCE you
actually look like
Dan
Fouts?
