The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
You’re unbelievable. You are as brainwashed as this captive Russian soldier. He puts the blame on Ukraine for starting the war because they resisted the invasion! He was part of the 40-mile convoy at the beginning of the war and was shocked when Ukrainians fired on them.
This speaks to the longstanding position by many older Russians that Ukraine is part of their country. I kind of think that thought isn’t as deep-rooted as it was a year ago, though.
Some posters in this (and the old) thread predicted Russian victory in the east and even more territory. Either they’re terrified of nukes which haven’t been used yet, or impressed with their military.
The Bakhmut offensive has been 100% Wagner-driven.
Taking Kyiv and installing a puppet gov’t would not have ended the war.
The point wasn't whether or not it woudl've ended the war in Ukr, it certainly would've saved manylives, but that destroying Kiev, like say we did Baghdad, would not be politically palatable to Putin's populace at home, nevermind how strong or weak the Russian military and its planning were
it was absolutely about scaring/tricking them into a quick surrender
the media and thinktanks just spun it to you as some Russian blunder or Ukrainian heroism, which you all just eagerly gobble up willingly without any scrutiny
How can you see it as anything but Ukrainian heroism. Zelensky stayed to fight and motivated the populace to resist what was thought at the time to be overwhelming odds against their survival. They were, after all, being invaded by the #2 army in the world.
That army turned out to be #2 all right. #2 as in 💩
When I see the Ukrainian flag especially on the idiots who have to make it seen on their Twitter or whatever this is what I really see. They are the same
www.hrc.org
Human Rights Campaign
If Enacted, Discriminatory Legislation Introduced in House of Representatives Would Erase LGBTQ+ Identities from Education System
I don’t need the media to tell me what heroism is, battlefield results and patriotic fierce resistance to a foreign occupying force that was supposed to easily steamroll through the country tells me all I need to know. The units in Hostomel were some of Russia’s best troops.
That is an expression of fundamental ignorance of current events: Russia is already pressuring Moldova to the West of Ukraine.
“[W] ho these people are. . . ?” We can study the last 500 years of Russian history and determine their intergenerational desire to actually physically possess nations such as Poland, Sweden, the Baltic nations, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, along with the entirety of Central Europe.
What historical basis are you referencing to educate those you describe as “ignorant.” It sounds as though you are ignoring “who these people are,” to an extreme.
The threat is imminent, evidently. We should not fear a nuke, but Russia won’t stop until it has all of Europe and then beyond. History tells us this, but we really just figured it out. Because, recently Crimea fell and we did not have enough evidence then. It is clear now, it appears.
So, if Ukrainians cannot win this war with just financial and weapon support, we need to send our own troops to stop the threat. Is that the answer?
Because even if Ukraine successfully expels Russia, Russia will still be Russia and history will still be history. Can we afford to stop at Ukraine?
You do need the media to make your ignorant arguments, yes.
Who told you the Russians were going to steemroll the whole of Ukraine? That's right, they did.
ANd here's one of Zelly's top advisors telling you exactly what I said.
VK.com | VK
vk.com
Sure, he's as big of a POS as the rest of them, no less culpable for the madness and death... but who is telling what's what? this idiot woh was actually there and instrumental, or your trusted talking heads and thinktank articles, various loser journalists?
They're going to eventually cut off Ukraine entirely, through odessa and uniting transnistria to russia proper.
It ddidn't have to be this way if we had chosen to pursue peace
Poland and the Baltics are already in NATO. We can stop talking about them because if they were ever attacked it’s WWIII.
Finland and Moldova do indeed represent possible targets, as well as what is left of Ukraine after this is over.
We have made clear from day one that Russia is expansionist. “Expansion was the soul of tsardom”. The real ignorance is in being told we must intervene in a part of the world where what we are seeing has literally happened many times over the centuries.
Lol. You’ve encapsulated their logic precisely. Well, as precisely as it allows for.
Finland would maul what is left of Putin’s military.You may change the wording around to reflect your view, but you can’t change the fact that we are enabling a war that is heading for a bloody stalemate at best.
Especially if they rapidly armed themselves. Still, Finland is definitely in the zone of the old Tsarist empire. It would be a trouble spot.
More changing of the wording around: We and more than 50 other nations are assisting Ukraine in its fight to defeat Putin’s invasion and attempts to return it to his sphere of domination. It will end in victory for Ukraine and the rest of the nations who want to choose their own paths to the future.
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They have already beaten Russia once and now, as a candidate for NATO they would have direct military assistance from the West, especially Sweden.
Many of you posters who are siding with Putin seem to discount the extant hatred for Russia in Eastern Europe. That hatred is still fresh on the minds of most of the populations of those countries who, just 3 decades ago were unwilling parts of the USSR.
They remember the bleeding of their economies by Russia so that it could maintain a “superpower” status in the world as a counter to America’s legitimate stance as the biggest economy and biggest, strongest military in history.
The USSR is long gone. When all of its nations declared their independence, only the Russian Federation was left. It is the ghost of past strength and “glory.” Even though yet another dictator has seized control of it and wants to “put the band back together,” Putin simply does not have the military or economy to achieve what he wants.
Because he is a narcissistic psychopath he will use every resource in Russia until they run dry; right down to the last Russian if necessary. It is the people of Russia who have to ultimately stop him. Until they do, they are all culpable for his actions and will suffer the consequences for his actions externally as well as within Russia.
They remember the bleeding of their economies by Russia so that it could maintain a “superpower” status in the world as a counter to America’s legitimate stance as the biggest economy and biggest, strongest military in history.
The USSR is long gone. When all of its nations declared their independence, only the Russian Federation was left. It is the ghost of past strength and “glory.” Even though yet another dictator has seized control of it and wants to “put the band back together,” Putin simply does not have the military or economy to achieve what he wants.
Because he is a narcissistic psychopath he will use every resource in Russia until they run dry; right down to the last Russian if necessary. It is the people of Russia who have to ultimately stop him. Until they do, they are all culpable for his actions and will suffer the consequences for his actions externally as well as within Russia.
No. I don’t think Russia’s military would allow him to even use “tactical” weapons in Ukraine or elsewhere. He may be a dictator and they may support him for now, but I strongly doubt that that support is unconditional.
Some interesting posts while I've been out. I have a lot to catch up on but it'll be a few days.
Since you know R is expansionist, and you believe we shouldn't intervene in this "part of the world", are you excluding the Baltic states/Poland/Hungary/Finland from "this part of the world" or should R not be interfered with in them either?
I hope you are right, but it appears many observers support JJ’s conclusion that this will be a stalemate after hundreds of thousands are killed and Ukraine decimated.
How long do you predict before victory is attained for Ukraine?
The hatred that led Germany to be dependent on Russia for energy? That hatred?
Gotcha. So he will use every resource down to the last Russian, but we can rest easy at night knowing nuclear bombs are in line after every Russian has died.
As I was telling them a year ago to the day.
There's an inherent logical incoherence in all "their" pro-war arguments.
They have enabled him every step of the way. You have a lot of misplaced confidence.
When you begin your post with something this dishonest, you show us that you’re not serious.
There’s no “pro-Putin”. There’s “for this war” and “against this war”.
Complete ignorance of who/what Russians are and fighting for. They are fighting for their civilization, whether or not we agree with the veracity of that view or not is irrelevant... it's what they genuinely believe.
They will absolutely start tossing nukes about if we succeed in our goal of destroying their state by deposing Putin and splitting them into smaller states.
