The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
You’ve spent days telling us how inferior they are. Now we’re going to bow to them. Which is it?
There's nothing contradictory at all in my position. You are just confused or intentionally misstating them and neither of those are my problem.
The Russian army is vastly inferior to the United States. Period.
If you allow Putin to bluff you off with threats about using nuclear weapons then you are bowing to those threats.
Those are perfectly consistent positions.
He’s not bluffing, but where specifically fid hr make these threats
I know you read that he made them, but where did he say he was willing to use nukes to take ukr
Z, why do you want a nuclear war? Please explain how Armageddon makes your miserable life any better.
Just a note of admiration for not only knowing Vlad’s middle name, but for risking that spelling in multiple posts.
I would have resorted to “Vlad, Vlad,” if for no other reason than to save thumb exhaustion,
meanwhile,
back to Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine . . .
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Illegal? Do you really want to go there, Hack? Was our invasion of Iraq 'legal'? How about our onslaught of Serbia? Libya? It's OK when WE do it, though?
If he's not bluffing then what is to stop him? You think we just roll over and give him whatever he wants. Then I assume China will see that as nothing but a clear sign they can take Taiwan as well?
Vladimir Putin needs to know 100% for sure that the United States will not be cowed with nuclear threats and he needs to understand exactly what the consequences are for whatever he does. We tell him directly if you do this then we will respond by doing this. No misunderstandings.
Simultaneously, the Russian politicians and military around Putin are not robots. They have wives, children, families... they are not going to sign their death warrants easily.
Any movement by Putin to actually use a nuclear weapon of any kind will immediately result in the collapse of their Government. His orders will not be carried out. The surest way Putin can take a bullet behind the ear is to order a nuclear weapon to be used.
As to Iraq and Afganisran, we had the coverage of international law on both counts, at least far more than Russia in Ukraine,
I know of no international authority with any credibility that backs Russia’s actions. Russia has never claimed that their actions are authorized by any international law.
Our biggest problems the last 20 years has been our continued occupations of lands we easily defeated, conventionally, as though we were going to civilize Iraq and Afganistan as we did Germany and Japan post WWII.
You keep making false assumptions.
Also understand that power and that appeasement never work. History has proven that over and over again. Putin isn't going to go away quietly if we let him have Ukraine and slaughter those people. He simply turns to Moldova and then if he thinks the Trump Republicans have sufficiently destabilized NATO enough he leans on Poland.
Both Russian and China must expand or die. They are not going to go away. Our challenge is to counter them. To slow their appetites and pile the costs up all around them just as we are doing by supporting those brave fighters in Ukraine.
Support Ukraine with everything we've got. That may very well end Putin and produce a pro-Western Russia much like German and Japan emerged from WWII and we then turn that new alliance on China. That is the way forward in US diplomacy and foreign policy strategy, not appeasement to expanding Russian and Chinese interests.
Did you wear a mask when not required to? Did you recommend it for others? Did you get that garbage vax? And recommend it for others?
I know your LOLMAN account isn't old enough for us to check, so should we look at your old accounts, Z?
You are the definition of a coward. Prove us wrong, and send your next post from the Ukrainian airport.
The US war against Iraq was hardly endorsed by international law, and it was morally wrong. Moreover, we basically obliterated that nation back to the Stone Age, far worse than Russia has yet done to the Ukraine, even though they easily could. Just because we live here doesn't mean that we're always in the right. And, if we're not, who are we to pass judgment?
The word you're looking for is 'WONT'.
That's not an autocorrect, it would have defaulted to 'won't'.
Dummy.
Correct, but it's ridiculous to have moral outrage about what Russia does when we've done worse, and I'm not even talking things from long ago like slavery or the displacement of the Native Americans or the Japanese internment, but shit that has happened in this very own millennium. My mom also would say, and does say, people in glass houses....
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So when are you headed to Ukraine? Or are you a coward?
I've never worn a mask when not required to. For Covid, since I was not an expert, I deferred to the folks that were and followed their guidance as that's the bargain for living in a civilized society. We all agree to do some things for the benefit of all and we depend on people that have dedicated their lives to make informed decisions for us.
Because if we don't then it all breaks down and you have anarchy. If we have a pandemic you can't just have everybody google their own solution then act accordingly.
As for shots, I've had 5 as was recommended for myself and I am thankful for the fantastic response of my country in handling Covid virtually better than any country on earth did, certainly better than the Chinese, and the job our private sector did in coming up with those vaccines were miraculous and again I am thankful for their effort.
I recommend everyone trust and follow what we have here in America because we are fantastically lucky. No people have ever lived with a better chance at a better life. We depend on our Government, our experts in their respective fields, our police, and all the way down to our citizens to do the best they can collectively to make this all work and yes there have been failures in every single one of those, but warts and all we still live under the greatest government and the greatest system any humans ever have, and I support it with every thing I have completely. I am not too blinded by hate to be thankful for what we all have and some would throw away.
We did tell him that we wouldn't do anything about a 'minor incursion. Joe Biden quote.
He just defines it differently.
People like you keep yelling about "appeasement". For every one Munich in history, there are dozens of examples where idiotic Jingos led nations into disaster, such as what happened to Japan and Germany in World War 2, France in 1870, etc, etc; and many other examples as to where diplomacy avoided a catastrophe, as in 1962.
Lots of USA citizens went to Spain during their Civil War with Franco. Wonder how many of these Warhawks have gone to Ukraine?
Put your mouths where your money is, Hemingway Z.
5 shots. Absolutely pathetic. And we had a real "fantastic response", all right. Do you have any idea how many federal judges nuked some of our "fantastic responses"? You disgust me.
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Hippies were 100% correct about Vietnam. 55,000 dead Americans would undoubtedly agree.
That's a good question. I have a young son and I don't think I could give him over, to anyone for any thing. I don't know how to resolve it. As for myself, I'd go fight the Russians tonight. It would probably be better than a lingering old death so that's nothing brave. If a shooting war erupted with the US involved then I'd beg to go if they'd give me an exemption. But my son, again, I just can't see anything.. I'd do anything to protect him and my family. It is in my DNA.
To just go now and not be supported would be to go against the establishment I fully support and against the wishes of my country so "no" I will not do that and you can take from that whatever you like, but if they suddenly started having our government sponsor volunteers to go over and fight the Russians and they'd give me an age waiver, then I'd apologize to my family, give my son instructions for taking care of the family, then I'd go die with a fistful of Russian ass tonight.
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For the sake of argument, say you are right.
How long does our self-flagellation for the sin of Iraq prevent us from judging others guilty of the same sin?
We sinned against native Americans and ignored our own treaties made with them frequently. Should our shame for those sins blinded us to the Japanese incursion into Manchuria, 60 years after the Indian wars?
If we are forever constrained by such a sensitive fear of hypocrisy, should dictators simply be allowed to roam at will?
Where can a line be drawn in our fetal withdrawal?
If we acted illegally in Afganistan, should we turn a blind eye toward Russia if they invaded Poland, or the Baltics?
Not interested in a Covid debate. Your reaction is telling if you had any capacity for self-reflection at all. The fact that you don't says nothing about me but everything about you.
Those are all offensive actions which are not applicable and are in essences the exact opposite.
Please give example(s) of where appeasing aggressive invading foes paid off? Russia is the invader not the invadee so historically where has appeasing such an invading army paid off?
If you are being truthful, then I suppose you're not at all a coward- except when it comes to a glorified flu bug. Still, it's fascinating that you are so hot about this. Is your own life so bleak that you're willing to lose it over what has nothing to do with your own existence? And do you not concern yourself with the possibility of a nuclear holocaust? Is that not even a remote concern of yours?
Here's an easy example. The Cuban Missile Crisis. Here are a couple more-Prague 1968, Budapest 1956. Russia was far more unjustified and reprehensible in those instances, than now, and what did we do? Not a Hell of a lot, but we did avoid World War 3 with our inaction, so there's that.
Buy a plane ticket. It's literally that easy. They'll hand you a gun when you land, I'm sure.
Z, the fact you called it a fantastic response when it was an abject disaster at every possible level tells me everything about you and your 'self-reflection'
Name one thing they got right with covid? Masks don't work, social didn't work, vaccines don't work, and at the end of the day, less that 1% fatality, and the worldwide median age of death was 82. 82!
I
It's not likely Russia invades the Baltic states- that's World War 3. It's not likely Russia invades Poland, because that's also World War 3, and besides, if I'm Putin, I'm not betting that Poland is without nukes, and Poland might not go down easily, anyway. If the Ukraine is a quagmire, Poland would be a catastrophe, even assuming Poland isn't nuclear. So, I can't envision any of this happening. My greater concern is our own aggression. I don't care about Russian aggression. I am still ashamed of what we did to Iraq. It's not like we're above doing something like this again. I think it's awful.
Unfortunately, it isn’t that easy. They have age parameters and have actually gotten pretty picky. Ukraine requires either prior military experience of law enforcement to gain easy access to a rifle they provide.
We know, you're a peacenik. Thats fine in general but there are times, like this, that being a peaenik is naive and blind
Agreed, but, if you, and about 10 other people on this board were in charge of foreign policy, well, yeah, there probably would be, especially if a few hot-headed Russians were similarly in charge of their own foreign policy at the same time. And unfortunately there are no shortage of Russian hothead, either. I'd call them out just as vigorously as I call out American hothead if they appeared here.
His post is a lazy "got'ya" post as if we are required to go over and fight to be able to support Ukraines effort to retain their sovereignty.
That position is sophomoric at best.
Well, to be so introspective regarding our putative errors, you can still simply say, “I don’t care about Russian aggression.”
Isn’t that an expression of complete opposites of moral judgment, when by your own juxtaposition. you imply that Russian and American adventurism should be jointly opposed?
I can as simply say, “I don’t care about American aggression,” but do Russian aggression.
Hence, we would both be hypocritical, and simply exercising our moral condemnation toward the side we support: me for an imperialistic US: you for an expansionistic Russia.
I love how these guys like BigBlueFanGA can state in one post how evil and insane putin is, and in the next, say no way nuclear war occurs. 😳
If the 'walls are closing in' and putin knows he is going to die because of losing, sure, he would never launch nukes.
Total idiocy.
If saddam actually had nukes, you think he wouldn't have used them? As opposed to being hung in the public square?
Again, total idiocy.
