My original response was to the language you quoted from the linked essay. The idea that attacking Ukraine is about weakening the US is really hard to swallow and seems like a construction for the purpose of fabricating a US interest when we did not see that US interest in the past when Putin acted similarly.
The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
-lordy, you're an argumentative /persnickity little fella.
-the point remains...the 40-45% that actually pay federal taxes are paying for this shitstorm...2k per household *not* taking in the sliding scale. Feel free to post a detailed break down if that appeals to you.
-hadn't thought about it that much until now... but I sure wish my 15k (assumimg your numbers are correct) was being spent on Americans, better yet I'd rather be able to spend/invest that myself to benefit my community in way I see fit. That's a different discussion.
My numbers are rough calculations from the data I found & make the correct point. If you want a detailed breakdown, get your own data & do it. Yes, it's clear you hadn't much thought about it.
In terms of the topic at hand, in the current economic and tax climate any tax dollars going to this is a waste and should stop
So under what economic & tax climate would these dollars not be a waste & should continue to be spent?
From a financial standpoint, if we had loads of surplus I have no issue helping any nation in need. From a diplomatic standpoint, I still don't see the wisdom in risking ww3 over a piece of land that apparently doesn't impact the US
Look on the bright side. We’re borrowing all the money. So you aren’t technically paying the pensions of Ukrainian government employees.
That will probably be your children. Even luckier if we ever start refinancing into some new longer duration 50 or 100 year treasuries, then your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will have the pleasure of making sure they the Ukrainians who don’t get slaughtered will receive their full government pension.
You’re still paying for Afghanistan and all the equipment we left for the Taliban there.
That will probably be your children. Even luckier if we ever start refinancing into some new longer duration 50 or 100 year treasuries, then your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will have the pleasure of making sure they the Ukrainians who don’t get slaughtered will receive their full government pension.
You’re still paying for Afghanistan and all the equipment we left for the Taliban there.
We must reach an agreement with the Russians on a new security architecture to ensure the safety and sovereignty of Ukraine, but not NATO membership."
The Hungarian politician also called attempts to return Crimea to Ukraine "unrealistic," citing mathematics as one of the arguments:
💬 "Everyone involved in politics understands logic, numbers, data – they know this is impossible. It's a tragedy for Ukraine. They will run out of soldiers before Russia does. What will ultimately matter is 'boots on the ground.' And the Russians are much stronger in numbers."
...
Orban also mentioned the possibility of a third world war. According to the Prime Minister, any official deployment of a NATO contingent into the SMO zone will escalate the military conflict to a new level. "The deployment of any military contingent by any Western country will mean direct war between the West and Russia – and we will immediately have a third world war. The situation is very dangerous now."
The Hungarian politician also called attempts to return Crimea to Ukraine "unrealistic," citing mathematics as one of the arguments:
💬 "Everyone involved in politics understands logic, numbers, data – they know this is impossible. It's a tragedy for Ukraine. They will run out of soldiers before Russia does. What will ultimately matter is 'boots on the ground.' And the Russians are much stronger in numbers."
...
Orban also mentioned the possibility of a third world war. According to the Prime Minister, any official deployment of a NATO contingent into the SMO zone will escalate the military conflict to a new level. "The deployment of any military contingent by any Western country will mean direct war between the West and Russia – and we will immediately have a third world war. The situation is very dangerous now."
When do we have a surplus that isn't obsolete? Don't recall ever. So never. Would have been simpler had you just said that.
Since your premise isn't true, wisdom isn't necessary to contemplate it.
We haven't always been in massive debt. Yes under the current direction it will never happen again. Maybe things will change but doubt ut
Most of this money is in the form of EU and IMF loans that have to be paid back. Totally legitimate complaint as a fiscal conservative to be concerned about the $$$, but things need to be put in context.
Most people also are not aware that it’s cheaper in the long-term to donate obsolete old military equipment and pay the transport costs to Poland (or another country) of said weapons than it is to demill them here. It just is, you can laugh or deny it all you want.
Some positive developments in the South. Russians are being dumb again throwing every reservist and VDV soldiers into defending the 1’st Surovikin Defense Line in the Verbove/Tokmak direction after the Robotnye defeat. This essentially guarantees the secondary Surovikin line will be understaffed and undermanned, guaranteeing Russian defenses collapsing. The first line has already been breached.
Tokmak doesn’t even need to be taken for rail line supply, it just needs to be under fire control (which it is) so Russians can’t send in supplies. Been seeing differing reports of Russians exiting Tokmak, but not sure of the quantity and how accurate those reports are.
Tokmak doesn’t even need to be taken for rail line supply, it just needs to be under fire control (which it is) so Russians can’t send in supplies. Been seeing differing reports of Russians exiting Tokmak, but not sure of the quantity and how accurate those reports are.
Excellent thread. Were the M$M capable of being as forthright, there'd be no $upport for this ignorant war.
Looks like russia on day 560 in their 3 day special military operation.
This is for you. See if you have the courage to accept it.
Bro just sent me a tucker carlson post. This dude has literally fell head first into Russian state propaganda. You think it matters that Russia has a bigger population? Not if they can't equip their soldiers with enough bullet proof vests, boots, helmets, supplies. You literally have Russian soldiers making videos begging for supplies, and pay and leave from the front. The jokes write themselves.
You know its bad when you got Russian state TV thanking Carlson for being a mouthpiece for them.
Which part is incorrect?
At some point, as painful as it is, you have to accept that sometimes the truth hurts. You’ve been misled. And not by Russians.
If you did research you'd understand that war isn't bigger population=win. Russia can barely supply their men with boots, helmets, bulletproof vests. Go on twitter and look at the videos of Russian soldiers begging for pay, leave, and supplies. But hey, Tucker Carlson said Russia has a bigger population so they're going to win. Russian state TV loves Carlson and have called him a ''valuable asset''. Who's really the patriot here?
“patriot”? There’s no patriotism involved, since it’s not your country. There’s only logic. You can embrace it, or not.
The sad irony here is that you’re so propagandized that you can’t believe that anything you disagree with isn’t propaganda.
Ukraine can’t regain their territory without NATO troops. Been telling you that since the first week. How much longer until you accept it?
I was talking about you weird Republicans who think supporting ending support for Ukraine is some form of ''patriotism'' for the US. Ukraine has taken back about 50 percent of their territory since Feb 24, 2022. In fact, Russia has put pretty much all their reserves and elite vdv troops in the center of their defensive line in the south. Leaving the flanks undermanned. You got generals saying Russia will be routed in a number of days. So....maybe you aren't as bright as you think you are, fox news boy.
When will Ukraine with our financial and munitions support defeat Russia and regain territorial control of its border? What do your Twitter sites say?
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
https://institutactionresilience.fr/publications.php
IAR published a comprehensive piece on Russian tank reserves and repair capacity. They estimate RU had 3,078 active duty tanks and 5,363 tanks in reserve before February 2022. They estimate tank losses at 2,929 (Oryx number times 1.3). Essentially, they estimate RU has lost the equivalent of its total active duty tank fleet. Of note, the quality of the active tank fleet has decreased significantly. Much of the modernized T-72 and T-80 fleet was lost and replaced with older models.
RU has three factories to repair tanks: 61st Factory, 103rd Factory, and 163rd Factory. Each factory is specialized to repair certain tank models. The only factory for repairing T-55s and T-62s is the 103rd in the Far East. So T-55s and T-62s wouid have to make a 13,000km round trip to be repaired and sent back to the front. It's much more likely that the 103rd will only repair T-55s and T-62s removed from storage and tanks of this series damaged in the field will be cannibalized rather than sent for repair.
Prior to the full scale invasion, these factories were repairing 30 tanks per factory per year. During the war, the 103rd received an order to modernize 800 T-62s over two years. So far they have been delivering these at a rate of 8 per month - much lower than what was ordered. If you extrapolate from the pre-war repair numbers, this is likely the capacity of the factory working three shifts.
So they estimate productions as follows: 90-180 repairs, 205 modernizations, and 10 new production (T-90M) per year. These numbers are likely to *decrease* as RU pulls deeper from reserves. If the 2023 loss rate continues, they estimate RU will be reduced to a fleet of ~500 active tanks in 12 months.
IAR published a comprehensive piece on Russian tank reserves and repair capacity. They estimate RU had 3,078 active duty tanks and 5,363 tanks in reserve before February 2022. They estimate tank losses at 2,929 (Oryx number times 1.3). Essentially, they estimate RU has lost the equivalent of its total active duty tank fleet. Of note, the quality of the active tank fleet has decreased significantly. Much of the modernized T-72 and T-80 fleet was lost and replaced with older models.
RU has three factories to repair tanks: 61st Factory, 103rd Factory, and 163rd Factory. Each factory is specialized to repair certain tank models. The only factory for repairing T-55s and T-62s is the 103rd in the Far East. So T-55s and T-62s wouid have to make a 13,000km round trip to be repaired and sent back to the front. It's much more likely that the 103rd will only repair T-55s and T-62s removed from storage and tanks of this series damaged in the field will be cannibalized rather than sent for repair.
Prior to the full scale invasion, these factories were repairing 30 tanks per factory per year. During the war, the 103rd received an order to modernize 800 T-62s over two years. So far they have been delivering these at a rate of 8 per month - much lower than what was ordered. If you extrapolate from the pre-war repair numbers, this is likely the capacity of the factory working three shifts.
So they estimate productions as follows: 90-180 repairs, 205 modernizations, and 10 new production (T-90M) per year. These numbers are likely to *decrease* as RU pulls deeper from reserves. If the 2023 loss rate continues, they estimate RU will be reduced to a fleet of ~500 active tanks in 12 months.
Today:
"Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced $1 billion in new US support for Ukraine, including military, humanitarian and budgetary assistance.
“In the ongoing counteroffensive, progress has accelerated in the past few weeks. This new assistance will help sustain it and build further momentum,” Blinken said at a news conference with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba while visiting Kyiv on Wednesday.
The package includes replenishing Ukrainians with weaponry that the US has given to the country in the past including air defense system components, Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems for HIMARS, munitions, ammunition, and communications systems, according to a State Department fact sheet. These weapons will come from Pentagon stocks.
The new military assistance package also includes depleted uranium munitions for the first time, a US official told CNN. The munitions are mildly radioactive because they are made from dense metal, a byproduct from fuel production for nuclear power plants. They can be fired from the US-made Abrams tanks that are expected to arrive in Ukraine this fall.
And in terms of long-term military support the new package commits $100 million in military support, through the foreign military financing program, the department said. This comes as conversations between the US and Ukraine over long-term support continue."
"Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced $1 billion in new US support for Ukraine, including military, humanitarian and budgetary assistance.
“In the ongoing counteroffensive, progress has accelerated in the past few weeks. This new assistance will help sustain it and build further momentum,” Blinken said at a news conference with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba while visiting Kyiv on Wednesday.
The package includes replenishing Ukrainians with weaponry that the US has given to the country in the past including air defense system components, Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems for HIMARS, munitions, ammunition, and communications systems, according to a State Department fact sheet. These weapons will come from Pentagon stocks.
The new military assistance package also includes depleted uranium munitions for the first time, a US official told CNN. The munitions are mildly radioactive because they are made from dense metal, a byproduct from fuel production for nuclear power plants. They can be fired from the US-made Abrams tanks that are expected to arrive in Ukraine this fall.
And in terms of long-term military support the new package commits $100 million in military support, through the foreign military financing program, the department said. This comes as conversations between the US and Ukraine over long-term support continue."
Cold weather a few weeks away. Progress minimal, if any. Lines on maps moving a little here and there. Billions unaccounted for. Young people dying.
1915, 1968, 2023. Some things don’t change.
1915, 1968, 2023. Some things don’t change.
US Intel Official: Media Misleading Americans About Ukraine’s Battlefield Success - News From Antiwar.com
In an interview with renowned reporter Seymour Hersh, a US intelligence official scolded the media for misleading the American public about Ukraine’s battlefield failures during the Spring counteroffensive. The unnamed official additionally told Hersh he believes that Russian President Vladimir...
news.antiwar.com
Scary but it’s coming from a website called anti war. And an “unnamed official” could be the janitor or literally, nobody and made up. And no, I don’t believe the American press, at all.US Intel Official: Media Misleading Americans About Ukraine’s Battlefield Success - News From Antiwar.com
In an interview with renowned reporter Seymour Hersh, a US intelligence official scolded the media for misleading the American public about Ukraine’s battlefield failures during the Spring counteroffensive. The unnamed official additionally told Hersh he believes that Russian President Vladimir...
Ukraine’s ‘biggest arms supplier’ orchestrated 2014 Maidan massacre, witnesses say - The Grayzone
Once denounced by Zelensky as a "criminal," gun runner Serhiy Pashinksy has become the top private supplier of arms to Ukraine. Eyewitness testimony has fingered Pashinsky as the architect of a bloody false flag operation which propelled the 2014 Maidan coup and plunged the country into civil...
thegrayzone.com
More ridiculous fear mongering. Russia can't handle Ukraine but they're somehow a threat to the west?
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
NATO Chief Openly Admits Russia Invaded Ukraine Because Of NATO Expansion
Listen to a reading of this article (reading by Tim Foley):
www.caitlinjohnst.one
LOL. Russia = great power & thus it's Ok for them to do whatever they want to independent countries. What total BS.NATO Chief Openly Admits Russia Invaded Ukraine Because Of NATO Expansion
Listen to a reading of this article (reading by Tim Foley):
