State of 2024 Recruiting
- Thread starter Rembrandt90
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@Rembrandt90, you should rename this thread, “State of Smith Recruiting,”
Will signing this many Smiths help us keep up with the Jones’s?
Maybe we’ll get a signee from Germantown, Ohio . . . Otto Schmit!!!
(I’m through playin’, now.).
Will signing this many Smiths help us keep up with the Jones’s?
Maybe we’ll get a signee from Germantown, Ohio . . . Otto Schmit!!!
(I’m through playin’, now.).
---
CLSpelunker hasn't rated him yet. And we all know what that will be....ZERO point ZERO.
Absolutely NAILED IT!
We have actually had significant trouble with "4 star recruits" FROM KY over the years, and maybe more than we have players from other states. OL, DL, WRs, and LBs that were stars before they got here and didn't make the grade or had discipline issues before transferring elsewhere.
Micah Jones, John Logan, and several others come to mind.... and some more recent ones (whose names I can't remember). If it hadn't been for these coaches recruiting talent regardless of star ratings, we wouldn't have had some pretty great players nor two separate 10 win seasons.
If anyone is blowing smoke about our coaches and their recruiting at this point in the process, I have to think they just want to be in a pissing contest and don't know jack about football. Pissing into the wind doesn't get you much around here.
If they can get at least one more Smith to flip to UK, we'd have roughly "a fifth" of Smiths.
I'm all for 5 Smith's and 2 Scotts.
I think what people have been saying is that with more wins we would expect on the surface better quality recruits who have a higher ranking and who have more quality offers from better programs. You are rt that some of this recruits who are lower ranked Pan out but they aren’t the norm. And vice versa. I do respect some of the staffs ability to evaluate and recruit and develop others not so much based upon results I am one who is skeptical about Scott from SCar doesn’t me more right or wrong than the others and a couple of others too. Some I would suspect are long term projects that are less likely to transfer out and “up” than others and who are probably gonna be 2nd/3rd stringers over their career. Typically the recruiting rankings lead to results on the field and improved results in the SEC etc etc. I appreciate your input and effort to putting this recruiting information on here for all of us to look at and debate. I am curious about the specifics on why we cannot seem to land top quality OTs in the past few years fro the HS ranks. Thoughts? Thanks again
We had a WR decommit over the weekend, don't know if we will contact him or not about WR. If it were me it would be too late.
Yes, that's what some are saying. Some are far too hung up on online class rankings and especially summer class rankings. Every year, you see all this skepticism and angst in July. Then we get the Smith twins to flip and suddenly everyone is happy. It's all reactionary. Point is, July class rankings are utterly meaningless. I am one who believes you really can't say much about the importance of a class until they have been on campus for three years. This has always been my perspective.
In your opinion.
I sure hope so. Our coaches have earned that trust.
Besides his online player ranking, what do you actually know about Quaysheed Scott? He is the fastest player in our class, has good size for a safety, and wanted to be a Wildcat so much that he came here to Lexington to attend a camp and work for a scholarship. Our coaches got to work him out. And he is having an excellent season. What do you want? Casey Etienne is still out there, but they took Scott. I trust our coaches.
How is that different from other schools?
No problem. Happy to help. The OT recruiting issue is an important topic. Stoops wants physical football teams. Stoops has produced some NFL OTs. Darian Kinnard was an All American here. During Stoops' best seasons, our "big blue wall" OL has stood out. What has changed? John Schlarman passed. Schlarman was a hero to his players and a man's man. Replacing someone like Schlarman or Sumrall on the staff is very diffricult because they are former UK players who knew the school and the culture, made men out of boys, and related very well to their players.
So my short answer is that Stoops has had a tough time replacing a great OL coach who passed.
If we get into specifics, Eric Wolford recruited DT Deone Walker but didn't add enough important new players to our OL. I have never been a fan of the Yenser hire, and I said so from the very beginning. I get the appeal. He is a native Kentuckian with NFL experience in Kyle Shanahan's operation. He is a nice guy, and our players like him better than they liked Wolford. But that's like being more popular than Uzelac. And, superficially, all of that is good. It is totally fair to point out that Yenser inherited a mess last year and has managed to produce a certain amount of identifiable improvement up to this point in 2023. I won't enumerate the statistical improvements here, or argue the level of competition to this point. I have attended all the home games and also watched the Vandy game closely. There has been some improvement.
But the question is whether Yenser can evaluate, recruit, and develop talent. So far, I see no evidence Yenser can evaluate and recruit talent. To be fair, maybe he actually can, and maybe he just needs more time. But, so far, if you ask me why we can't get commitments from OTs, the most obvious explanation has been Yenser. We targeted JacQawn McRoy, Kevin Heywood, Jordan Floyd, John Wayne Oliver, Jake Hines, Ben Roebuck, and the Armstrong twins, but we have whiffed. That says something. The OT prospects from OH were Marrow recruits, but you don't sign an OT unless he is satisfied with the OL coaching process. Don't get me wrong. I hope Yenser succeeds. I am not against him. So far, though, I suspect we need a coaching and recruiting upgrade for our OL. That's just what my eyes are telling me so far.
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Yenser was a GA under Schlarman at Troy so he had that going for him too when hired. I think his coaching skills are probably average, it's his recruiting skills that are lacking. UK's had bad luck with the flop of Goodwin and the injury to Hall hasn't helped. But it seems to me UK has adopted the philosophy that they can raid the portal to get the OL they need. Whether true or not remains to be seen but M. Cox/Ford seem to be adequate.
This is entirely accurate. In the long run, you need to recruit and develop hs linemen that you can keep around the program for 4-5 years to propogate the culture and become leaders. No knock on Selm, Johnson, and Lafontant, but I am not sure yet whether Yenser can get that done.
The portal is another topic. To date, Coach Stoops has been a master of using transfers. We have been fortunate to snag Rosenthal, Manning, Ford, Ray, and M. Cox. You get these guys for a season. (Hopefully multiple seasons, in Ford's and Ray's cases.) But the portal could dry up at anytime for a variety of reasons, be it popularity, coaching issues, a dry year for lineman transfers, or rules changes. In the long run, developing your own players is a better solution than the portal IMO. If you asked Stoops, I suspect he would agree. But Stoops is outhustling most other HCs.
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If you go back to 2020, we currently have roughly half of the ‘20-‘22 o-line recruits on our current roster. We signed five in ‘20 and Flax is the only one remaining (Adams, Buford, Jones, Young are gone). We signed three in ‘21 and Wohlabaugh transferred leaving us Burton and Rodriguez. In the ‘22 class we also signed three and Goodwin is gone, Bingham and Hall (out for the year) are still here. So that’s six out of eleven guys we hoped could be developed who are no longer here. Of our 21 linemen on roster, we have the five listed above plus Eli Cox from the ‘19 class. We have five quality transfers, four of those are multi-year so we only lose M. Cox. We signed three guys in ‘23 and we have seven walk-ons. Seems like we’re going to continue leaning heavily on the portal but hopefully we can continue signing multi-year guys who can learn our system and occasional OADs like Rosenthal, Manning, and Cox who are plug and play. Seems like that’s Stoops plan right now but as Rembrandt said we have to get to the point where some of these freshmen are developed into two or three year starters.
We live in the era of the transfer portal. Formerly, though, it was recognized that schools invest significant resources in recruiting and developing players. So a one-year transfer redshirt was formerly imposed to discourage transferring. Players could transfer, but they had to sit out a year at their new school. UK got Kyle Macy, Derrick Anderson, Heshimu Evans, Braylon Heard, and EJ Price that way.
At this point in history, the priorities of players are given more consideration than the developmental investments that schools have expended to recruit and coach them. It is what it is. Coach Stoops outworks most other HCs, so he has adapted to the situation and utilized the transfer portal to the advantage of our football program. But many of our significant inbound transfers (Rosenthal, Joseph, Smith, M. Cox) are here for only a year, so they plug an immediate roster need. Occasionally we get a transfer like Levis, TRob, Ford, or Bowles who can stay two years. JQ Hardaway may be here for three. But if we are ever going to have another "big blue wall" OL that actually competes for the Joe Moore Trophy, I strongly believe that will have to come primarily by recruiting and developing our own linemen over a 4-5 year period of teaching and conditioning.
If that is true, how can our program improve OL recruiting and meet the goal? Getting Liam Coen back was step #1. Now the next question is conceptually simple. Can Zach Yenser get the job done? IDK the answer yet, but I think we are probably going to know within the next 6 months.
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As I and others have been discussing throughout the summer, it is inevitable that new names will pop up on UK's recruiting radar during the fall. For those of us interested in OL recruiting, a new story is developing.
Aidan Bryant, an OT at the Christian School in Greenville, MS, is now being recruited by Coach Collins. Bryant's family lives in IN but he is spending this year at school in Greenville. He has no SEC offers, but was recently offered by OH St as a followup to a summer camp he attended in Columbus. Bryant has been playing football for only two years but has a longer background in basketball. At 6'5" 300# he is a multisport athlete with long arms and good feet. In his public statements, he has indicated a strong interest in UK. Bryant does not hold a UK offer yet, but I suspect he will receive one as soon as he sets a date to visit Lexington. Early indications are that he may visit UK for the AL game in November. UK is not the only Power 5 school talking with Bryant now. Bryant has said he is not in any hurry to make a decision, so his recruitment could stretch into December.
Not exactly new names, but S Cam Dooley (Valley, AL) and WR Dorian Williams (Cincinnati, OH) may be back on UK's fall recruiting radar. Dooley visited UK in June but then committed to MO. He is still committed, but it has been reported that he is still talking with Coach Marrow. Williams had a visit scheduled to UK in June, but cancelled it and committed to Vandy. But recently he decommitted from Vandy. Coach Marrow is also Williams' recruiter.
It is considered likely that Coach Stoops will take one more WR in our 2024 class. Our coaches want PA product Rico Scott, who is committed to AL. They are also recruiting Yannick Smith, an ECU commit from Summerville, SC.
Aidan Bryant, an OT at the Christian School in Greenville, MS, is now being recruited by Coach Collins. Bryant's family lives in IN but he is spending this year at school in Greenville. He has no SEC offers, but was recently offered by OH St as a followup to a summer camp he attended in Columbus. Bryant has been playing football for only two years but has a longer background in basketball. At 6'5" 300# he is a multisport athlete with long arms and good feet. In his public statements, he has indicated a strong interest in UK. Bryant does not hold a UK offer yet, but I suspect he will receive one as soon as he sets a date to visit Lexington. Early indications are that he may visit UK for the AL game in November. UK is not the only Power 5 school talking with Bryant now. Bryant has said he is not in any hurry to make a decision, so his recruitment could stretch into December.
Not exactly new names, but S Cam Dooley (Valley, AL) and WR Dorian Williams (Cincinnati, OH) may be back on UK's fall recruiting radar. Dooley visited UK in June but then committed to MO. He is still committed, but it has been reported that he is still talking with Coach Marrow. Williams had a visit scheduled to UK in June, but cancelled it and committed to Vandy. But recently he decommitted from Vandy. Coach Marrow is also Williams' recruiter.
It is considered likely that Coach Stoops will take one more WR in our 2024 class. Our coaches want PA product Rico Scott, who is committed to AL. They are also recruiting Yannick Smith, an ECU commit from Summerville, SC.
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I met one of the twins last night at a volleyball game and he was very nice and well spoken.
I was listening to a national recruiting show last week, the consensus is the 2024 class of O tackles is thin & poor. They predicted a lot of power 5 upper level schools would be dipping down to offer and schedule visits with OTs that normally would be G5 level talent.
I’ve said it before but the loss of Sclarman was huge, not only could he recruit and develop but he was a good man who was well respected by his peers and players. Concerning Yenser, still leaning on the side of scheme to a point as Stoops pointed in his post Vandy pressure issues with our zone blocking (as he did last year). OTOH, I think we’re still seeing some fundamental errors that come from coaching. Guess we’ll see what happens over the next 8-9 weeks.
Yes, we will see. Even if scheme is an issue, Yenser must show he can recruit. I think it is interesting that Coach Collins is Aidan Bryant's primary recruiter.
Apparently Coach Woodward is now recruiting WR prospect Donovan Hamilton from Fishers, IN, near Indianapolis. Hamilton does not have a Power 5 offer yet but UK's offer may be forthcoming if Hamilton follows through with his scheduled visit to UK for the FL game this weekend. If UK offers, that might indicate that Coach Stoops intends to take two more WRs in the 2024 class, since our coaches are still trying to flip Rico Scott from AL. At 6'4", Hamilton would be the "taller" receiver that has not been secured yet, but that our coaches still want to add to the class. It is being reported that Hamilton is having a breakout senior season at Southeastern hs.
Two 2024 class visitors expected here for the UK-FL game this weekend.
Donovan Hamilton, WR, Fishers, IN
Yannick Smith, WR, Summerville, SC (ECU commit)
UK is also still recruiting WR Rico Scott from PA, an AL commit. So all this tells us that WRs remain a priority for our 2024 class.
Donovan Hamilton, WR, Fishers, IN
Yannick Smith, WR, Summerville, SC (ECU commit)
UK is also still recruiting WR Rico Scott from PA, an AL commit. So all this tells us that WRs remain a priority for our 2024 class.
I looked at our roster again this morning. Currently, 59 scholarship underclassmen are scheduled to return in 2024. This includes Nik Hall, whose football career is known to be in some degree of jeopardy because of a back injury. It includes Trevin Wallace, who may consider early entry into the NFL draft although I am inclined to doubt that happens. It also includes an unknown number of Wildcats who will at least consider transferring out during the offseason (which happens every year). On first blush, I count at least three Wildcat underclassmen who appear hopelessly buried on our depth chart and might at least consider tranferring out. I won't name them here. But there could be more than three.
So let's pick a number. For the sake of this comment, I will make an educated guess that 55 Wildcat underclassmen will return in 2024.
I also count at least six current "seniors" who appear likely to come back next year, perhaps using a COVID year. For discussion, let's say five of them actually return. I am confident Octavious Oxendine and Tanner Bowles will be among them, and D'Eryk Jackson may also be.
All of that adds up to 60. We currently have 20 verbal commitments for our 2024 recruiting class, and I am not anticipating many (if any) decommits. So that adds up to 80.
Again, keep in mind there are some educated guesses involved here. But if these numbers are close, then Coach Stoops has about five more open scholarships to manage in this recruiting cycle. It seems that WR and OT plus uncommitted DE Brian Robinson, MO S commit Cam Dooley, and Miami DT commit Artavius Jones are the remaining 2024 recruiting priorities. How many OTs need to come in through the portal depends on several factors, most important of which will probably be how many open scholarships will actually be available for this purpose.
But in any case, we are now down to only a handful of remaining scholarships, and Coach Stoops will want to save a couple for the portal.
So let's pick a number. For the sake of this comment, I will make an educated guess that 55 Wildcat underclassmen will return in 2024.
I also count at least six current "seniors" who appear likely to come back next year, perhaps using a COVID year. For discussion, let's say five of them actually return. I am confident Octavious Oxendine and Tanner Bowles will be among them, and D'Eryk Jackson may also be.
All of that adds up to 60. We currently have 20 verbal commitments for our 2024 recruiting class, and I am not anticipating many (if any) decommits. So that adds up to 80.
Again, keep in mind there are some educated guesses involved here. But if these numbers are close, then Coach Stoops has about five more open scholarships to manage in this recruiting cycle. It seems that WR and OT plus uncommitted DE Brian Robinson, MO S commit Cam Dooley, and Miami DT commit Artavius Jones are the remaining 2024 recruiting priorities. How many OTs need to come in through the portal depends on several factors, most important of which will probably be how many open scholarships will actually be available for this purpose.
But in any case, we are now down to only a handful of remaining scholarships, and Coach Stoops will want to save a couple for the portal.
There aren`t very many quality offensive tackles in high school and the ones out there are going to the "top" football programs. In fact, offensive tackle is the most difficult position to find and recruit. Years ago, teams would recruit tight ends and turn them into tackles. We just have to find kids with length and hope they pan out as a tackle.
No worries. Although not totally predictable, I think the eventual size of our 2024 class is roughly predictable, and also of considerable interest to all of us.
Good synopsis.....it does sound like we'll be leaning on a handful of players to transfer out to even out the numbers....which always works out
I'd have to look back, but since the advent of the portal it seems like 7 to 10 UK guys leave every offseason. No reason to think it won't be similar amount again.
As part of the earlier recruiting strategy discussion, UK signs developmental 'project' guys. If they hit, take to coaching & strength development, they are here 5 yrs. If not, that is known early (by both them & the coaches), they leave and their slot is filled by the portal to keep the age of our roster balanced.
As part of the earlier recruiting strategy discussion, UK signs developmental 'project' guys. If they hit, take to coaching & strength development, they are here 5 yrs. If not, that is known early (by both them & the coaches), they leave and their slot is filled by the portal to keep the age of our roster balanced.
Like Malachi Wood, for example.
UK got Landon Young largely because he is from Lexington. Signing Darian Kinnard was a great piece of recruiting by Coach Marrow, but John Schlarman's reputation at the time was also a big part of it. Ever since Coach Schlarman passed, our OL recruiting has understandably taken a hit. Zach Yenser has done a good job getting Marques Cox, Jeremy Flax, and Courtland Ford ready this year. The big question remains whether Coach Yenser can close the deal with recruitment of the better OT prospects on UK's board. We just don't know yet, but I am still searching for something encouraging.
I will just point this out again. UK's coaches are now recruiting OT prospect Aidan Bryant from Greenville, MS. Primary recruiter duties for Bryant have been assigned to Chris Collins, who is connected in the state of GA but not necessarily in MS. Coach Collins is also trying to recruit Greenville product and DL prospect Alex Foster, but Foster committed to Baylor. So it isn't like Collins has the keys to the city. The last prospect UK signed from MS was Josaih Hayes, who was recruited by Jon Sumrall. IDK for sure, but the fact that Coach Yenser does not have a primary recruiting role for Bryant does not seem like a vote of confidence. For those who may not recall, Yenser was primary recruiter for JacQawn McRoy and Kevin Heywood, but McRoy committed to OR and Heywood to WI despite the fact that both took OVs to Lexington. That is a small sample, but not an insignificant one. It's good that Yenser recruited Austin Ramsey and Koby Keenum. Both have potential but neither projects as an SEC OT. If Yenser is to be extended, he has to prove he can sign SEC caliber OTs. Otherwise his job is untenable.
Superficially speaking, no reason to think it wouldn't be similar this year. But when I reviewed our roster this morning, I only saw three Wildcat underclassmen who seem like likely candidates to leave based on playing time and being recruited-over. Of course, I can't read their minds or predict the future, so maybe the number will be larger.
With the current transfer portal rules, players are going to leave every Power 5 program early for their own reasons. If they are "projects", maybe they transfer to a secondary conference for more playing time. But highly recruited players also transfer if they don't receive immediate playing time of an amount that fits their expectations. This is killing AL, for example. In recent years, we have pulled a couple of highly rated transfers from LSU.
I don't believe UK's coaches have intentionally recruited "projects". I think our coaches are recruiting prospects who have the measurables they want. Our coaches obviously don't care one iota about online player ratings. Otherwise they would not have taken Josh Allen, Bunchy Stallings, and Beny Snell, all of whom became All Americans at UK. All Americans are not "projects". Some of us may look at it that way because of placing way too much credibility on the online ratings. But take Calvin Taylor, for example. Some may have considered Taylor a "project", but our coaches considered him a 6'8" multisport athlete with great frame, quick twitch, and good feet. The fact that online evaluators knew nothing about him did not enter into our coaches' decision. This is brilliance and courage on the part of our coaches, who have an evaluation methodology and stick to it. With Quaysheed Scott and Jadon Lafontant, they still are.
People believe what they want to believe. Examples are everywhere in America today. The incurable followers of online ratings HAVE to believe players like Taylor, Allen, and Stallings were "projects" because that is the only way they can hang onto what they want to believe and reconcile the success of these players with their low online player ratings. Even now, they continue to insist these successful players were "exceptions". But how many "exceptions" does it take? Because people believe what they want to believe, these rigid believers in online ratings can never be convinced, no matter how many "exceptions" are produced by our coaches.
The following UK players were lightly recruited 2- and low 3-stars.
Bunchy Stallings - All American
Benny Snell - All American
Luke Fortner - All SEC; NFL starter
Juice Johnson - 5th in UK history for career catches and holds several program records
Josh Allen - All American; Bronko Nagurski Trophy winner
Logan Stenberg - All American
Derrick Baity - Four year UK starter
AJ Rose - Rushed for 1971 yards at UK and played for three NFL teams
Boogie Watson - Two year UK starter
Stephen Johnson - Two year UK starter
Calvin Taylor - Two year UK starter
Jamin Davis - All SEC; 1st round draft choice by WA Commanders
Lonnie Johnson - 2nd round draft choice by Houston Texans
Justin Rigg - Two year UK starter
CRod - All SEC; drafted by WA Commanders
Jordan Jones - Three year UK starter
Quinton Bohanna- Four year UK starter, drafted by Dallas Cowboys
Josh Ali - Two year UK starter
Brandin Echols - Two year UK starter; starts for the NY Jets
Abule Abadi-Fitzgerald - UK starter
Carrington Valentine - Two year UK starter; drafted by GB Packers
Jalen Geiger - Two year UK starter
Andru Phillips - Already two year UK starter; will likely start three years
D'Eryk Jackson - Two year UK starter
Khalil Saunders - Parttime starter as a soph; already a leader on our DL
Kenneth Horsey - All SEC; three year UK starter
Eli Cox - three year UK starter
Maxwell Hairston - Starter as a soph; recent SEC defensive player of the week
Josh Kattus - Two year UK starter and a team leader
Some holdout supporters of online ratings will continue to insist this list does not include many other signees who have not been starters, but that is true for prospects in all ratings catrgories. In fact, it was also true for 4-stars like Elam, Tubman, Brown, Richardson, Casey, Douglass, Drennen, and Goodwin. So player development depends on factors other than online ratings. This list is reality, although it doesn't look like most of our fans actually realize the full contributions of all these lightly recruited Wildcats. At some point, a reasonable person has to acknowledge this list and admit these players are not "exceptions". They are large scale successes by design, in a program that specializes in independent athletic talent evaluation and development.
So what starters will we have to possibly replace in 24?
Offense
Leary
Davis
Horsey
Defense
Wallace
Weaver
OX
Geiger
Is this about right?
Offense
Leary
Davis
Horsey
Defense
Wallace
Weaver
OX
Geiger
Is this about right?
T. Robinson, M. Cox, Bates, Flax on O. Weaver for sure on D, maybe Jackson, others on D are iffy as Covid year could figure in. Wallace needs to return.
Oxendine is only a parttime starter, but he will be back in 2024. Oxendine signed in our 2020 class. Wallace is a junior and likely will be back. Wallace can leave early and try to get into the NFL draft, but I don't see a realistic scenario in which Wallace would not benefit from coming back unless he sustains a bad injury, which is unlikely but possible (but that's why they purchase insurance).
How in the world did I miss Cox and Trob. I see now why Stoops and staff looking to take close to 25 for 24.
Hope you’re right on Wallace. I just see him testing through the roof at a NFL combine if he’s invited. Agree he needs to come back at this point.
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