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State of 2024 Recruiting

-any chance Cummings sticks around? He's a stud in the making... hate to see him go.
Cummings has already entered the portal. The prevailing wisdom says he will transfer to UL, but that decision belongs him. My guess is that he made this decision when Coach Coen didn't initially put him in UK's playing rotation. He saw some late playing opportunities after Dingle and Kattus got hurt, but they will be back in 2024. He has barely played the last two seasons.
 
I think the surprises are more likely to be in the form of inbound and outbound transfers. We are going to get a surprise with the new WR coach hire. And, frankly, I am very surprised Zach Yenser hasn't been fired yet.

As far as the 2024 class is concerned, if there is a remaining surprise of significant dimensions, it would probably be a flip. I do not believe UK's coaches can flip Rico Scott from AL. But we still might see a WR or OT flip. There is plenty of time for flips.

It is worth mentioning that Kendall Jackson has decommitted from FL, and his mother really liked UK. But I have heard that UK's staff considers Brian Robinson and Jerod Smith better versions of Jackson. According to that narrative, Jackson waited too long and his UK offer is no longer committable. He had his chance.
Totally agree sir
 
This would be a good opportunity to move Destin Wade into Cummings H-Back role, they're about the same size.
The question of what happens to DWade is an interesting one. It is probably no longer a question of whether he is capable of being developed as a Power 5 QB. Reality is that the opportunity won't be there for him at UK, for all the reasons you and I already know. But he is still a quality athlete. Either he agrees to change positions (in which case he needs to move over to the defense) or else a transfer seems inevitable. Right now, I think it is the latter. Don't ask me if KWade will transfer with him. I hope not but the prevailing wisdom says their mother is mad at Stoops.
 
Where we still disagree, apparently, seems to be that you still equate online player ratings with "talent".
I’ve always said that online rankings do NOT equate to performance. Rather, better teams are more likely to have more higher ranked players.

What was the "ceiling" on Josh Allen, the two star recruit who won the Bronko Nagurski Trophy? What was the "ceiling" on Jamin Davis, the lightly recruited low-three star recruit who became an NFL first round draft choice?

My mention of “ceiling” is a reference to the overall talent on the team. You mention some individual players that have raised UK’s overall ceiling. Yet, if the majority of our recruits were reaching (or exceeding) expectations then we wouldn’t be having to dip so heavily into the portal each year. It’s one thing to dip into the portal to fill a couple specific needs. We used the portal last year to try and fix major flaws in multiple areas. (That’s because of previous recruiting failures.) BTW- I’m thankful for the portal because it allows for quicker fixes when there are recruiting misses.

I may misperceive your position and don’t want to speak for you. But, it sounds like you think everything is great with the program. (Just my perception from your posts.)

I am upfront about NOT thinking everything is great. Unlike some other posters I am a firm believer in Stoops and his staff. Calling for his departure is ludicrous. I have confidence in his abilities to lead us through the problems. A big part of leadership is acknowledging the problem then putting a plan together to correct it. Sticking one’s head in the sand and saying “everything is okay” doesn’t help the situation.

UK will always face more football challenges than most other SEC schools.

To continue to climb the SEC ladder will require better recruiting. I trust Stoops and his staff to lead us to the next level.

I do believe an excellent pass rusher and QB make a huge difference for each side of the ball.
 
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Not only is it harsh, but that approach would have cost us Jamin Davis, Darius West, Jalen Geiger, Calvin Taylor, Blake Bone, Brenden Bates, and AJ Rose.
Your examples aren’t even close to true. Every player you listed contributed before or in their 3rd year on campus with Bates being the only borderline case.

Rose ran for 400 yards as a redshirt So, Bates played 6 games as a rSo missing 5 through injury that year only caught 1 pass so this one could be borderline, Bone (I’m not sure why he is even on the list) was a contributor in every season he was here, Taylor had 22 tackles in his 3rd year, Gieger (also not really sure why he is on here too) started 2 games in his 3rd season on campus, West played a lot as a rFr and would have been a starter as a rSo but missed a whole season to injury, and Davis started some and had 32 tackles in his 3rd year.
 
There’s no doubt these players were developed. I work with statistical analysis and know what outliers look like on a graph. If you calculate all the 3 star and under recruits we have brought in over the last 6-7 years I would estimate that to be around 90-100 players. (6 x 15 … I’m too lazy to look up individual recruiting rankings!) The graph would show the players you listed as statistical outliers. At the same time it would show a correlation between higher rated recruits and team success. Thus, winning teams typically have higher ranked recruiting classes.

Jimbo (and many other coaches) are proof that not every coach gets the same results with higher recruits. Still, the better teams have better recruits.

Here’s where I think we agree. I have zero concern about coaching or development. It Stoops’ strength. Yet, he knows that talent creates a ceiling for every team. (He talks about this ceiling.)

The question is how do we raise that overall ceiling? It will have to come through recruiting. My optimism causes me to think that one excellent pass rusher and one excellent QB can make everyone around them better. An excellent pass rusher led us to a 10 win season in 2018, and Levis led us to a 10 win season in 2020. I will not dump on existing players, but we didn’t have either game changing player this year. I’m optimistic that both positions have young players that can become a game-changer.

Can you imagine Stoops having both at the same time???

Peace!

Part of the psychology of sports and life is not mixing passive, negative, and definitive statements with positive, potential, and affirmative statements in the same process. I'm not using proper terminology here, but the idea is and has always been the same.

1. Jimbo Fisher didn't coach his way to a title at FSU. He was head coach that year and managed his way to a title. Yes, he had an extremely talented college QB and a great defense, but he also had very good players at key positions all across the roster.

2. A great college QB isn't enough on its own to win a title or a conference. Same for a great edge defender. Correlation does not equal causation. It's not the same in football as basketball, where a single great basketball talent (like Carmello Anthony) can lead a good team to a title. 1 or 2 on 11 is vastly different than 1 or 2 on 5.

3. Analytics, data, statistics, talent, strength, etc, don't mean jack without execution. Execution won't mean much without coaching. Coaching won't mean much without drilling/ repetition. Some or all of this can be nullified by lack of situational awareness/game smarts.

4. If you set or believe in a ceiling, it is established. If you think you can't go farther without ___, you can't. If you tell your team, verbally or non-verbally, that you can't win with them or without someone or something else, you won't. If you tell someone they aren't good enough, they will either languish, prove you wrong, and/or remove you from the equation.

^^Joker was a good example of belief in limitations. He didn't recruit top talent to UK from out of state because he believed they wouldn't come here. He never tried, so he never lost the battle. He was wrong, but he fulfilled his own belief by not trying.

We also know belief alone doesn't equate to winning games, but believing you can't can lose you games, no question.

5. Coaching is like a lot of other things, but magnified x11. Then you add strategy and injuries to the equation, and THEN you have to look at your opponents. In some ways it is like a marriage with 85+ kids. If you mail it in with regard to any of the major parts of a marriage, it's not gonna be successful.

Yet, it is also true that you could perform flawlessly in all aspects and still the marriage can fail, because there is no magic button to control anyone or anything else.

6. NIL was intended to break the hold that the SEC had put on college football. The NCAA if you didn't notice- tapped out. Buying players was the great equalizer for most of a century. When they finally had it under control, one conference rose to the top with a couple other conferences as also rans and occasional spoilers.

Now the boosters are back and all is good at NCAA HQ. They can randomly hammer who they want and slap on the wrist whoever they want. Just like old times.

7. The question for UK going forward to me is THIS-

Can we be a complete program, or will we continue to mail it in with regard to some or several aspects going forward? From fans to funding, from recruiting to development, from facilities to gameday atmosphere, from administration to grounds crew, from strategy to execution WILL WE continue to find ways to improve UK Football, or will we continue to use it so that basketball stays near the top?

8. In competition you don't "get" things. You take things. You earn things. You conquer things. (Mostly you conquer yourself, through discipline and practice, so that you might conquer an opponent.) In football this seems to be more true than in any other sport.
 
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Part of the psychology of sports and life is not mixing passive, negative, and definitive statements with positive, potential, and affirmative statements in the same process. I'm not using proper terminology here, but the idea is and has always been the same.

1. Jimbo Fisher didn't coach his way to a title at FSU. He was head coach that year and managed his way to a title. Yes, he had an extremely talented college QB and a great defense, but he also had very good players at key positions all across the roster.

2. A great college QB isn't enough on its own to win a title or a conference. Same for a great edge defender. Correlation does not equal causation. It's not the same in football as basketball, where a single great basketball talent (like Carmello Anthony) can lead a good team to a title. 1 or 2 on 11 is vastly different than 1 or 2 on 5.

3. Analytics, data, statistics, talent, strength, etc, don't mean jack without execution. Execution won't mean much without coaching. Coaching won't mean much without drilling/ repetition. Some or all of this can be nullified by lack of situational awareness/game smarts.

4. If you set or believe in a ceiling, it is established. If you think you can't go farther without ___, you can't. If you tell your team, verbally or non-verbally, that you can't win with them or without someone or something else, you won't. If you tell someone they aren't good enough, they will either languish, prove you wrong, and/or remove you from the equation.

^^Joker was a good example of belief in limitations. He didn't recruit top talent to UK from out of state because he believed they wouldn't come here. He never tried, so he never lost the battle. He was wrong, but he fulfilled his own belief by not trying.

We also know belief alone doesn't equate to winning games, but believing you can't can lose you games, no question.

5. Coaching is like a lot of other things, but magnified x11. Then you add strategy and injuries to the equation, and THEN you have to look at your opponents. In some ways it is like a marriage with 85+ kids. If you mail it in with regard to any of the major parts of a marriage, it's not gonna be successful.

Yet, it is also true that you could perform flawlessly in all aspects and still the marriage can fail, because there is no magic button to control anyone or anything else.

6. NIL was intended to break the hold that the SEC had put on college football. The NCAA if you didn't notice- tapped out. Buying players was the great equalizer for most of a century. When they finally had it under control, one conference rose to the top with a couple other conferences as also rans and occasional spoilers.

Now the boosters are back and all is good at NCAA HQ. They can randomly hammer who they want and slap on the wrist whoever they want. Just like old times.

7. The question for UK going forward to me is THIS-

Can we be a complete program, or will we continue to mail it in with regard to some or several aspects going forward? From fans to funding, from recruiting to development, from facilities to gameday atmosphere, from administration to grounds crew, from strategy to execution WILL WE continue to find ways to improve UK Football, or will we continue to use it so that basketball stays near the top?

8. In competition you don't "get" things. You take things. You earn things. You conquer things. (Mostly you conquer yourself, through discipline and practice, so that you might conquer an opponent.) In football this seems to be more true than in any other sport.

With the lone exception of your suggestion that UK has been "mailing it in" (which demonstrably isn't the case), this is a really outstanding comment. Especially your candid comment on the nature of "competition".

In the contemporary context, the NCAA has three impossible problems. First, cheating had become so widespread and so engrained in certain big programs (e.g., SoCal, AZ, KS, Clemson, UNC, UL, OH St, TN, and most of the SEC West, among many others) that controlling it by any objective enforcement standard became impossible, especially with representatives of the cheating schools serving on NCAA oversight committees. Second, we live in a social era when leftist redistributionist doctrine dominates the political and legal climates. Because of this, the NCAA found it impossible to enforce its own rules in cases when there was actually an organizational will to do so. For one thing, the NCAA is unable to win litigation or lobby succesfully in political arenas as long as legislatures and courts broadly reject the traditional amateur concept and consider every hs and college athlete as wage earners with settled rights to demand financial compensation (in addition to scholarships and free education). Last but not least, the NCAA has a budget and can no longer financially afford to take necessary steps to enforce its own rules.

So the only way out was for the NCAA to surrender to prevailing social trends and give its approval to reimbursement for endorsements under the new NIL rules. Unfortunately, as Mark Stoops and Nick Saban have addressed, the current NIL scenario is not sustainable. Stoops is right, and so are you. The NCAA is on a path to satisfy large TV networks while ultimately destroying the fabric of NCAA athletics. In the meantime, Power 5 schools are enjoying a windfall from huge netwerk TV contracts. But the effects of this are already stratifying the Power 5, which is about to become the Power 2. That's fine with the networks, as long as viewership stays high.

There is a popular narrative here that says UK cannot compete. I assume you disagree with that. I certainly disagree with it. But it has become a cash-in, cash-out issue. While it costs more and more to compete, OTOH more and more network TV money rewards success and marketability. Power 5 athletics departments have become de facto private banks. In the meantime, the conviction and socioeconomic strength (or lack of it) of alumni and fan bases ultimately determine whether individual schools can compete successfully in the NIL era.

On this latter point, let's be very clear. Although Kentucky is a small state, UK has a huge international fan base and a huge collection of successful alumni. In terms of infrastructure, UK is not at a disadvantage compared to most other Power 5 schools. Respectfully, anyone who believes otherwise is incorrect. Stoops is right to articulate what must be done. Stoops is the leader of our football program. Who else is going to do it? And as many doubts as I have about John Calipari's goal orientation, in fairness I have to say that Cal has taken the NIL bull by the horns. UK can compete and succeed.
 
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Elijah Groves has decommitted from UK's 2024 recruiting class. He becomes the first decommitment. I hope he is the last, but I am not convinced he will be.

It is being said that Groves is now considering Purdue, NC St, ansd VA Tech. This seems odd.

I do not have a good feel for why Groves is decommitting from our class. A month ago, his UK commitment was firm. If it was about NIL (which will be many people's default assumption), he would not decommit from UK to focus on Purdue and a couple of midlevel ACC programs. Coach White is his UK recruiter, his potential position coach, and his coordinator at UK. So this is a setback for our class, even with Jacob Smith on board. I do not believe Groves' offer was pulled. He is an elite multisport athlete. But I cannot speak to his academic status.

Our class now has 22 public commitments. It is still a strong class. It is no secret that Coach Stoops is working hard to hang onto Quaysheed Scott and Terhyon Nichols, two important defensive backfield commits. Presumably, Cam Dooley (Valley, AL) might be a backup plan in case Scott decommits.

Much has been said about the strength of our LB class. Losing Groves hurts. Losing Keaton Wade represents additional weakening in our Jack LB rotation. The cupboard is not bare, but these two could have been future all conference players. I now expect Stoops to take an edge LB out of the portal if the right guy becomes available.

Given recent announcements, I now count 53 current Wildcats likely to return in 2024 although a few of those could still leave in the portal. After successful surgery, I am now assuming Nik Hall will attempt a comeback. With 22 public commitments for the 2024 class, 75 UK scholarships for 2024 appear to be spoken for at this time. We might take 1-2 more 2024 commitments aIthough there could also be more decommitments besides Groves. So I expect at least 8-10 inbound transfers out of the portal this time. We can guess about positions, but there is no doubt Stoops will take a transfer QB (maybe two), a RB, multiple WRs, multiple offensive linemen, a CB, maybe an edge LB, and probably a placekicker. That probably won't be the end of it.
 
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Your examples aren’t even close to true. Every player you listed contributed before or in their 3rd year on campus with Bates being the only borderline case.

Rose ran for 400 yards as a redshirt So, Bates played 6 games as a rSo missing 5 through injury that year only caught 1 pass so this one could be borderline, Bone (I’m not sure why he is even on the list) was a contributor in every season he was here, Taylor had 22 tackles in his 3rd year, Gieger (also not really sure why he is on here too) started 2 games in his 3rd season on campus, West played a lot as a rFr and would have been a starter as a rSo but missed a whole season to injury, and Davis started some and had 32 tackles in his 3rd year.

I was responding to what you said, and I might wonder how you define "contributed". You were allowing two seasons to produce. This is not worth debating because no coaching staff operates that way.
 
I’ve always said that online rankings do NOT equate to performance. Rather, better teams are more likely to have more higher ranked players.



My mention of “ceiling” is a reference to the overall talent on the team. You mention some individual players that have raised UK’s overall ceiling. Yet, if the majority of our recruits were reaching (or exceeding) expectations then we wouldn’t be having to dip so heavily into the portal each year. It’s one thing to dip into the portal to fill a couple specific needs. We used the portal last year to try and fix major flaws in multiple areas. (That’s because of previous recruiting failures.) BTW- I’m thankful for the portal because it allows for quicker fixes when there are recruiting misses.

I may misperceive your position and don’t want to speak for you. But, it sounds like you think everything is great with the program. (Just my perception from your posts.)

I am upfront about NOT thinking everything is great. Unlike some other posters I am a firm believer in Stoops and his staff. Calling for his departure is ludicrous. I have confidence in his abilities to lead us through the problems. A big part of leadership is acknowledging the problem then putting a plan together to correct it. Sticking one’s head in the sand and saying “everything is okay” doesn’t help the situation.

UK will always face more football challenges than most other SEC schools.

To continue to climb the SEC ladder will require better recruiting. I trust Stoops and his staff to lead us to the next level.

I do believe an excellent pass rusher and QB make a huge difference for each side of the ball.

In large part, you may have misperceived my thoughts and beliefs because I find myself continuing to clarify the same points. But that's okay. It doesn't matter. It's a good discussion.

"Better" recruiting is always desirable. No argument there. LOL! That's why Barnhart keeps increasing Stoops' recruiting budget. This hasn't been said, but I have no doubt that one reason (not the only reason) Scott Woodward is gone is because of weak recruiting. I'll bet Woodward is replaced by a better recruiter.

I don't try to measure "better recruiting" by class rankings or player ratings. I have said this many times. It takes several years to assess a recruiting class because performance is all that matters. Player ratings do not equal talent. There are too many examples that support what I am saying. If you disagree, then so be it. You will not change your mind. That's fine.

We all understand "not everything is great". I am occasionally accused here of wearing blue glasses, but I have actually been quite clear with my concerns. Unlike many, I don't lose my mind and behave like a 5 year old after every loss, which seems to make me an unrealistic optimist according to some negative posters. Actually, I am a natural optimist. But when it comes to UK football, I haven't held back when I see something that isn't right.
 
In large part, you may have misperceived my thoughts and beliefs because I find myself continuing to clarify the same points. But that's okay. It doesn't matter. It's a good discussion.

"Better" recruiting is always desirable. No argument there. LOL! That's why Barnhart keeps increasing Stoops' recruiting budget. This hasn't been said, but I have no doubt that one reason (not the only reason) Scott Woodward is gone is because of weak recruiting. I'll bet Woodward is replaced by a better recruiter.

I don't try to measure "better recruiting" by class rankings or player ratings. I have said this many times. It takes several years to assess a recruiting class because performance is all that matters. Player ratings do not equal talent. There are too many examples that support what I am saying. If you disagree, then so be it. You will not change your mind. That's fine.

We all understand "not everything is great". I am occasionally accused here of wearing blue glasses, but I have actually been quite clear with my concerns. Unlike many, I don't lose my mind and behave like a 5 year old after every loss, which seems to make me an unrealistic optimist according to some negative posters. Actually, I am a natural optimist. But when it comes to UK football, I haven't held back when I see something that isn't right.
The longer the portal season continues(and with how many we can add now) and 3 schollies for next year now available, it makes me wonder if Yenser may be staying another year.

Which mystifies me...
 
The longer the portal season continues(and with how many we can add now) and 3 schollies for next year now available, it makes me wonder if Yenser may be staying another year.

Which mystifies me...
Good question. Mystifies me too. I have been clear that I expected Woodward and Yenser to be fired. Now Woodward is gone. Yenser could still be fired, but that appears less likely with each passing day. He isn't an effective recruiter, but it is fair to say our OL is playing incrementally better than in 2022. So I get the nuance. They want some continuity. Continuity is good. But, Yenser or no Yenser, and improvement or no improvement, we must recruit and develop offensive linemen rather than having to rebuild the OL every year through the portal. This has become very important.
 
Good question. Mystifies me too. I have been clear that I expected Woodward and Yenser to be fired. Now Woodward is gone. Yenser could still be fired, but that appears less likely with each passing day. He isn't an effective recruiter, but it is fair to say our OL is playing incrementally better than in 2022. So I get the nuance. They want some continuity. Continuity is good. But, Yenser or no Yenser, and improvement or no improvement, we must recruit and develop offensive linemen rather than having to rebuild the OL every year through the portal. This has become very important.
OLs are better the more they stay/grow together hence the necessity of the continuity you mention. Watch the really good offensive teams and the talking heads mention: "This is their 30th or 40th or 45th straight start." Must be nice. Thru maybe not totally no fault of their own(injuries, bad luck, etc) UK seems to be in a rut of having to rebuild the OL every year or two. UK's had recruiting misses, read Goodwin/Bingham, but they can't afford such at the rate we've seen the last few years. Keenum and Wood and Ramsey and the current commits MUST be ready in a year or two to break that cycle. Can Yenser bring that about? Did think this year's OL was better than '22 but it must improve at least as much again to give UK's O the boost needed.
 
OLs are better the more they stay/grow together hence the necessity of the continuity you mention. Watch the really good offensive teams and the talking heads mention: "This is their 30th or 40th or 45th straight start." Must be nice. Thru maybe not totally no fault of their own(injuries, bad luck, etc) UK seems to be in a rut of having to rebuild the OL every year or two. UK's had recruiting misses, read Goodwin/Bingham, but they can't afford such at the rate we've seen the last few years. Keenum and Wood and Ramsey and the current commits MUST be ready in a year or two to break that cycle. Can Yenser bring that about? Did think this year's OL was better than '22 but it must improve at least as much again to give UK's O the boost needed.

I agree with all of this, and recognize (and have said so many times) the importance of continuity, but still feel Yenser was not a very good hire in the first place. Our coaches must recruit. Yenser has been a weak recruiter. I will concur with anyone who says Yenser improved Flax. Flax is better for sure, but Flax by all accounts worked his tail off. Which other UK offensive linemen have improved? I am hearing good things about Malachi Wood, but am concerned about nearly everyone else. Burton had six SEC scholarship offers including AL, plus OH St, Clemson, and OK. But Burton is struggling. Wohlabaugh, Buford, and Bingham struggled and then left. Continuity is one thing, but I just don't see much development. Now we are trying to rebuild the OL through the portal every year. Is that working? Not sure. At the end of the day, I trust Stoops and Coen. But for anyone who says I wear blue sunglasses, here I am saying in plain English that I am concerned about Yenser and I am sharing my reasons.
 
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In large part, you may have misperceived my thoughts and beliefs because I find myself continuing to clarify the same points. But that's okay. It doesn't matter. It's a good discussion.

"Better" recruiting is always desirable. No argument there. LOL! That's why Barnhart keeps increasing Stoops' recruiting budget. This hasn't been said, but I have no doubt that one reason (not the only reason) Scott Woodward is gone is because of weak recruiting. I'll bet Woodward is replaced by a better recruiter.

I don't try to measure "better recruiting" by class rankings or player ratings. I have said this many times. It takes several years to assess a recruiting class because performance is all that matters. Player ratings do not equal talent. There are too many examples that support what I am saying. If you disagree, then so be it. You will not change your mind. That's fine.

We all understand "not everything is great". I am occasionally accused here of wearing blue glasses, but I have actually been quite clear with my concerns. Unlike many, I don't lose my mind and behave like a 5 year old after every loss, which seems to make me an unrealistic optimist according to some negative posters. Actually, I am a natural optimist. But when it comes to UK football, I haven't held back when I see something that isn't right.
Agree 110%.

The problem I (we) state about "UK needs to recruit better to climb the SEC ladder" was an issue before Stoops arrived, and will be an issue whenever he leaves or retires. The staff has convinced me they have the strategy and the recruiting "chops" to lead UK into territory they have never sustained previously.

We'll have to disagree about recruiting rankings ; -) I agree with you that many posters only look at the rankings to form their opinions on players while coaches don't pay any attention to them. The portal is now an opportunity to fix previous recruiting misses. (Or situations where good players leave.)

I think UK fans have valid reasons to be optimistic. The next couple weeks will be interesting. Thx for your info on hs recruits. It is very helpful and enjoyable to read.

BTW - Are you expecting any surprises from hs ranks on signing day?
 
I agree with all of this, and recognize (and have said so many times) the importance of continuity, but still feel Yenser was not a very good hire in the first place. Our coaches must recruit. Yenser has been a weak recruiter. I will concur with anyone who says Yenser improved Flax. Flax is better for sure, but Flax by all accounts worked his tail off. Which other UK offensive linemen have improved? I am hearing good things about Malachi Wood, but am concerned about nearly everyone else. Burton had six SEC scholarship offers including AL, plus OH St, Clemson, and OK. But Burton is struggling. Wohlabaugh, Buford, and Bingham struggled and then left. Continuity is one thing, but I just don't see much development. Now we are trying to rebuild the OL through the portal every year. Is that working? Not sure. At the end of the day, I trust Stoops and Coen. But for anyone who says I wear blue sunglasses, here I am saying in plain English that I am concerned about Yenser and I am sharing my reasons.
If I was to venture a guess, the staff is probably wanting to nail the WR coach and has feelers out for the OL coaching position as well.
 
I was responding to what you said, and I might wonder how you define "contributed". You were allowing two seasons to produce. This is not worth debating because no coaching staff operates that way.
Again you didn’t read what I said. My comment allowed 3 seasons to contribute. Redshirt, rFR, rSO or FR, SO, JR.

I’m not trying to debate. You responded to a comment I made without reading the comment.
 
Again you didn’t read what I said. My comment allowed 3 seasons to contribute. Redshirt, rFR, rSO or FR, SO, JR.

I’m not trying to debate. You responded to a comment I made without reading the comment.
I read it. And as I said before, no coach operates as you suggested. The players are teenagers and students, not disposable items.
 
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Agree 110%.

The problem I (we) state about "UK needs to recruit better to climb the SEC ladder" was an issue before Stoops arrived, and will be an issue whenever he leaves or retires. The staff has convinced me they have the strategy and the recruiting "chops" to lead UK into territory they have never sustained previously.

No matter how good recruiting is, it always needs to improve. Not just here. Even if you sign a "strong class", you never know which players will get injured or leave. The transfer portal has made this even more urgent. One particularly poignant example - Jermaine Burton. Burton signed with GA. Last Saturday, Burton (who transfered to AL) helped AL beat GA. These are the times in which we live. And no matter how successful UK's football program (or anyone's football program) becomes, it can always get better with more contributory players. UK's current coaching staff is recruiting the best classes I can remember. Even in the days of Tim Couch and Dennis Johnson, those overall classes couldn't hold a candle to what Stoops is accomplishing. The Art Still-Derrick Ramsey-Warren Bryant group was transforming, but they were recruited by means that got our football program on NCAA probation. Our current coaches are knocking it out of the park even though I am disappointed about Elijah Groves. But it can get better.

We'll have to disagree about recruiting rankings ; -) I agree with you that many posters only look at the rankings to form their opinions on players while coaches don't pay any attention to them.

I do not believe online ratings equal talent. Online ratings are simply a marketable work product. It takes several years to assess the production and contributions of recruited players. If I am understanding your comments correctly, you agree with the latter statement but not the former. There, respectfully, you lose me. If we need to wait several years to assess the production of players, then online recruiting ratings assigned in a nonstandardized fashion by faceless evaluators during the hs career cannot possibly be reliable or predictive. People believe what they want to believe. If one believes in online ratings, one points to Trevin Wallace and Lynn Bowden. If one does not believe in online ratings, one points to Michael Drennen and Matt Elam. There are so many positive and negative examples that anyone can believe anything and point to plenty of examples while ignoring others. You say outlier, I say great talent evaluation and coaching. Bottom line, either the team gets better or else it doesn't. On this last point, I am sure we agree.

The portal is now an opportunity to fix previous recruiting misses. (Or situations where good players leave.)

I think UK fans have valid reasons to be optimistic. The next couple weeks will be interesting. Thx for your info on hs recruits. It is very helpful and enjoyable to read.

People tend to be naturally optimistic or pessimistic, regardless of what is actually going on in our football program. I am optimistic about our football program because resources are flowing in at an unprecedented rate. Of course, that is true throughout the SEC. The transfer portal has complicated everything. If I was an SEC coach these days, I would probably need a rest period at the funny farm. It is so nuts now.

BTW - Are you expecting any surprises from hs ranks on signing day?

I have learned to (usually) expect surprises on signing day. Last year it was Kendrick Gilbert and Jayvant Brown. That's why they call them surprises. LOL! What might surprise us this year? Maybe a second QB signing, which is desperately needed now. Maybe a flip at OT or WR. Or we could suffer another decommit or two. This feels like a year when a lot of unknown stuff is still happening behind the scenes. We certainly have some open scholarships.
 
I agree with all of this, and recognize (and have said so many times) the importance of continuity, but still feel Yenser was not a very good hire in the first place. Our coaches must recruit. Yenser has been a weak recruiter. I will concur with anyone who says Yenser improved Flax. Flax is better for sure, but Flax by all accounts worked his tail off. Which other UK offensive linemen have improved? I am hearing good things about Malachi Wood, but am concerned about nearly everyone else. Burton had six SEC scholarship offers including AL, plus OH St, Clemson, and OK. But Burton is struggling. Wohlabaugh, Buford, and Bingham struggled and then left. Continuity is one thing, but I just don't see much development. Now we are trying to rebuild the OL through the portal every year. Is that working? Not sure. At the end of the day, I trust Stoops and Coen. But for anyone who says I wear blue sunglasses, here I am saying in plain English that I am concerned about Yenser and I am sharing my reasons.
Dead on....

1. Flax was impressive last year as good tackle
2. I simply didn't see Burton/Eli Cox display a ton of growth
3. Horsey was hurt so much...I could not see him be the solid guard we've know for years. Now Dylan Ray was a good solid story....I'd argue he's at best a decent SEC guard but not a upper end offensive guard. And for a walk-on...that is fine and that is what depth is for....replacement level player in case of injury
4. Marques Cox...was a solid LT by SEC standards....but we basically bought him and portal/NIL is how we got him.
5. There was zero depth behind those guys from best we can tell. Rodriguez, Bowles, maybe Chrisman would have been depth, etc....but again, we have no guys that can rotate in (like Schlarman used to do)

To me, the identity of UK in Stoops best days was two fold:
1. Benny Snell/CROd and Bruising running game built on backs of Oline
2. On defense.....good luck running the ball at UK. (i.e. make teams one dimensional). Guys like Bohanna, Josh Allen, Bully McCall, Paschal, Calvin Taylor, Kash, Jordan Jones, Jamin Davis, Square, Jacquez Jones, Boogie Watson, etc..

The largest drop off to last 2 years of disappointing seasons is the Oline has for sure taken a massive step back. I don't think Yenser is a good teacher/developer of Oline. We are basically having to portal to keep an average (at best) oline. I see zero evidence that we'll be plugging in a HS recruit to the oline yet again...so it's more portal to keep it going. I just don't think it's a good idea for a school like UK and staying with Yenser feels like it's Coen's idea but this isn't working to me.
 
OLs are better the more they stay/grow together hence the necessity of the continuity you mention. Watch the really good offensive teams and the talking heads mention: "This is their 30th or 40th or 45th straight start." Must be nice. Thru maybe not totally no fault of their own(injuries, bad luck, etc) UK seems to be in a rut of having to rebuild the OL every year or two. UK's had recruiting misses, read Goodwin/Bingham, but they can't afford such at the rate we've seen the last few years. Keenum and Wood and Ramsey and the current commits MUST be ready in a year or two to break that cycle. Can Yenser bring that about? Did think this year's OL was better than '22 but it must improve at least as much again to give UK's O the boost needed.
This morning, UK signed Zach Yenser to a contract extension. Granted, there was incremental OL improvement from 2022 to 2023. But Yenser has not recruited well, and players have departed in mass. Call me surprised. But it puts an end to the question. I assume Coen's faith in Yenser prevailed here, and that the sample size was considered too small.
 
Valley, AL, multisport star Cam Dooley, a S prospect, is reportedly deciding between UK, SCar, MO, and GA Tech after decommitting from MO earlier. He will make his final announcement on the signing date later this month. It is being reported that Dooley is still a take for UK. Coach Yenser (primary) and Coach Buffano (secondary) are his UK recruiters. Yenser could use a recruiting win. It is unusual for a prospect to decommit and then recommit to the same school, so there is a buzz now in the media suggesting Dooley will probably sign with UK. The only CB pick was entered for UK by Josh Edwards on Oct. 31.

Meanwhile, UK's coaches are trying hard to hang onto Quaysheed Scott's commitment. Scott now has an offer from SCar. Reportedly, AL has also called to inquire recently. How wrong some of our fans were when they tagged Scott as a weak member of our class earlier. Scott will visit SCar and UK soon. Coach Collins is his primary UK recruiter.
 
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Kendall Jackson has committed to Miami after recently decommitting from FL. Last June, Jackson visited UK. By the time Jackson decommitted from FL, UK already had commitments from BRob and Jerod Smith.
 
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Looks like WR prospect Donovan Hamilton (Fishers, IN) will choose between Purdue and IN. Hamilton visited UK this fall.
 
BTW - Are you expecting any surprises from hs ranks on signing day?

Revisiting this question, I took another look at the roster math. As of this morning, 54 current scholarship Wildcats are expected back in 2024. This number includes Shamar Porter and Deuce Hogan who evidently pulled their names out of the portal. With Elijah Groves flipping to NC St, there are 22 commitments in our 2024 recruiting class. We have 2 inbound transfers, Vandagriff and Cottrell.

54 + 22 + 2 = 78

85 - 78 = 7

Since the NCAA allows 85 scholarships at a time, that means 7 more scholarships are currently open. If more current UK players transfer out, or if more of our 2024 commits decommit, the number of available scholarships will increase.

Here is my rough estimate how many more scholarships need to be used for portal requirements-

One more QB (Beau Allen?)

One more RB (Trayanum?)

Two more WRs

Two more offensive linemen

One more CB (Nicholson?)

Maybe one more Jack LB

Maybe one more S

So the number of available scholarships roughly matches up with the obvious remaining roster needs. Right now, our coaches are focused on the transfer portal and on the bowl practice camp. Adding to our 2024 class is probably not at the top of the priority list although holding together the 22 commitments obviously is. If our coaches were to suddenly get an opportunity to flip a high-level OT, WR. or DB prospect, surely they would jump on it. But in the absence of something like that, the roster math suggests they will be primarily focused on filling key remaining needs out of the portal.
 
Come on Grump....you stick your head in the dirt like an ostrich.....you're telling me UGA doesn't NIL but keeps the top class nearly every year? But the rest are buying dudes?

UGA bought the WR they needed from SEC schools in Lovett and RaRa THomas from Mizzou and Texas AM respectively. It's not wrong..so no shade. But stop being so uppity about how righteous Kirby/UGA are.

RECRUITING TEAM RANKINGS
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Last Updated: Nov 28, 2023 2:57 pm
2024

ALL TEAMS

RANKSCHOOLTOTAL COMMITSAVG5 STARS4 STARS3 STARSPOINTS
1GEORGIA
Georgia
283.9332052985
2OHIO STATE
Ohio State
233.9641452984
3FLORIDA STATE
Florida State
223.7321362640
4TEXAS
Texas
203.821342623
5OREGON
Oregon
253.7201872533
6OKLAHOMA
Oklahoma
273.711792526
7NOTRE DAME
Notre Dame
233.701672518
Not to the frosh, we have lost every head to head with the big spenders, FSU, AU, UT. Now the kids who produce are getting some nice NIL, and incoming guys are getting offers. But Kirby isn't overpaying like some schools seem to be doing. Kirby was the best recruiter in the country when he was at Bama, that hasn't changed.
 
FWIW, Grumpy seems to think UF pulled Jackson's offer.
The understanding in the UF camp is that the decision to decommit was mutual, especially after LJ McCray committed.

Regardless, UK's coaches long since moved on from Jackson. Jackson and his family had an excellent visit to Lexington last June and then stayed focused on FL. Coaching staffs take that kind of thing into account when managing roster numbers. UK has Tavion Gadson, Jerod Smith, and BRob. Jackson has a chance to become a decent player, but all these Wildcats have higher ceilings.
 
Bama just got their 5* WR Ryan Williams to reclass from 2025 to 2024. They now have 4 WRs in their class with Rico Scott being the lowest rated. Don’t know if this will affect his thinking this year but , could be a portal guy later.
 
Bama just got their 5* WR Ryan Williams to reclass from 2025 to 2024. They now have 4 WRs in their class with Rico Scott being the lowest rated. Don’t know if this will affect his thinking this year but , could be a portal guy later.

It's an interesting point to keep an eye on. Scott is a hs teammate of UK 2025 commit Stone Saunders, and Saunders' father is a friend of Coach Coen. Scott UVed UK earlier this fall but has stayed firmly committed to AL. Saban obviously wants to keep Scott, or else AL would pull Scott's offer. But as you say, Scott must be aware that AL is loaded at WR. If Scott is a competitor, that won't scare him off. But if he loves playing football with Saunders, that could still influence him. UK has room for another high upside WR, and there is appeal to playing for Coach Coen. OTOH, is Scott aware yet who Stoops will hire as UK's new WR coach? Head scratcher.
 
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It's an interesting point to keep an eye on. Scott is a hs teammate of UK 2025 commit Stone Saunders, and Saunders' father is a friend of Coach Coen. Scott UVed UK earlier this fall but has stayed firmly committed to AL. Saban obviously wants to keep Scott, or else AL would pull Scott's offer. But as you say, Scott must be aware that AL is loaded at WR. If Scott is a competitor, that won't scare him off. But if he loves playing football with Saunders, that could still influence him. UK has room for another high upside WR, and there is appeal to playing for Coach Coen. OTOH, is Scott aware yet who Stoops will hire as UK's new WR coach? Head scratcher.
Scott would be aware. From what I’m hearing they are telling the receivers it will be Daikeil Shorts . tifwiw. Also heard there was going to be a mutual parting of ways with a committed Olineman .
 
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FOr those wondering about surprises. It appears there is goimg to be a decommityment soon. It will be more making room for others. Number crunching. Last week I read Cam Dooley was leaning towards GT and staying close to home. He cancelled his visit for thus week amd I think dropped them. Not 100 percent sure but last week he was supposedly down to UK and GT.
 
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