If Stoops is gone, that means Vince Marrow is also gone. The next hc, whoever he is, will struggle to hold onto our 2024 verbal commitments. I don't expect more than a couple, if any, to actually follow Stoops to TX A&M because it's so far away. But we will lose some important commits. Some will wait to see who the new hire is. But many will quickly look at their alternatives again. This is going to be a lot more problematic than the anti-Stoops crowd on this board thinks. Rival recruiters will immediately be all over our class.
State of 2024 Recruiting
- Thread starter Rembrandt90
- Start date
You have a short memory. We will see if you still feel this way a year a year or two from now.
Dude....I never wanted Stoops fired. I did question if he'd plateaued at UK. Losign at home to Vandy, USC and Mizzou (and another dreadful loss to USC on road)....there was slippage. But Stoops more than earned time to get it back on course.
You run your know-it-all bullcrap at any negative slight at UK coaches. When I questioned why bring Yenser back and fire Scangerello (when his unit was by far the worst on the team)...here you go on your horse that I'm not a coach and we'd do better to just let coaches coach. Now for a month you've been on the Yenser is part of reason we underperformed and he needs to go.
Same with Woodard.....his body fiving Brown/Key on sidelines while they stink up fundamentals of Wr play was juvenile. Yet you did your some old routine that no fan has a valld negative opinion.....only to start in on Woodard was to blame for bad season a few weeks ago.
Many posters get over your condescending mess.....even if you give solid information on the other hand.
From a big picture perspective, I think Stoops has done a great job and I give him props while pointing out statistical reality to those who think he should be replaced.
Short-term, yesterday’s win was huge for many reasons. Yes, a 6 win season would’ve been “crapping the bed!” I think Stoops would be first to agree it would’ve been a terrible year. (Everyone has their own definition of “crapping the bed.) I also think Stoops deserves credit for making that truth a reality. Both statements are true! Stoops has raised program to point that 6 wins is now a failure. Again, yesterday’s win was huge.
Now to recruiting, we cannot say individual Internet recruiting rankings don’t matter, then boast about having a top 25 class. The same people ranking the players are ranking each school’s class.
Ranking are not perfect. We don’t need to regurgitate who’s over-performed and underperformed over the years. Bottom line is that teams who have have best recruiting classes are statistically more likely to have better teams.
This appears to be a solid class. But, to climb above the middle of the pack will require better recruiting. Yes, some strategic transfers can make immense impact. But, we’re seeing that we are a “recruit and develop” program that should only rely on the portal for a few plug and play players. Relying on too many portal players is staff’s admission that specific recruits (positional) were not good enough.
Short-term, yesterday’s win was huge for many reasons. Yes, a 6 win season would’ve been “crapping the bed!” I think Stoops would be first to agree it would’ve been a terrible year. (Everyone has their own definition of “crapping the bed.) I also think Stoops deserves credit for making that truth a reality. Both statements are true! Stoops has raised program to point that 6 wins is now a failure. Again, yesterday’s win was huge.
Now to recruiting, we cannot say individual Internet recruiting rankings don’t matter, then boast about having a top 25 class. The same people ranking the players are ranking each school’s class.
Ranking are not perfect. We don’t need to regurgitate who’s over-performed and underperformed over the years. Bottom line is that teams who have have best recruiting classes are statistically more likely to have better teams.
This appears to be a solid class. But, to climb above the middle of the pack will require better recruiting. Yes, some strategic transfers can make immense impact. But, we’re seeing that we are a “recruit and develop” program that should only rely on the portal for a few plug and play players. Relying on too many portal players is staff’s admission that specific recruits (positional) were not good enough.
And I responded to that.
True without a doubt.
Also unquestionably true IMO.
There you go again.
You are hallucinating and fabricating again. I suppose you behave this way because you are so scared someone will disagree with you that you just have to turn the thread personal and insulting. You do it all the time. Contrary to your misinformation, I was early to ask for Scangarello to be fired, and I was never sanguine with the Yenser hire from the very beginning. From the beginning, it could not have been more obvious that Yenser's OLs have struggled.
Even worse, there was improvement earlier this season, followed by obvious regression during the second half of the SEC season when we needed them to step up. More than a year ago, I pointed out here multiple times that Yenser and Woodward were not carrying their weight as recruiters. But you are such a narcissistic flamethrower that you have to convince yourself nobody saw it besides you. As a nasty, whining, attacking know it all, you represent the very worst of this board.
Confused? LOL! I say what I see on the field and in our recruiting clases. I talk football. You claim to be a football man but you keep proving you know nothing about football. You talk insults and you always attack, whether your target is our football team or your fellow fans. Your ignorant posts are always a distraction to the rational football discourse on the board. Please just put me on ignore. You bring nothing to the discussion. Nobody gives a damn what you say.
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Agree. In the "big picture", Stoops has obviously been a big success here.
Again, I would just say "crapping the bed" is an example of histrionics. Other than that, I do agree with what you are saying here.
Who has been bragging about top 25 classes? I participate in most of the recruiting discussions but I haven't seen the bragging. On the contrary, Syoops' rectuiting has mainly been underappreciated. It's actually quite fair to say Stoops is the most effective recruiter in modern UK football history, but as knowledgeable fans we don't need online class rankings to perceive this. It is evident in offer sheets and in performance on the field. Results count.
I think the point here is twofold. First, the notion that UK always has one of the worst classes in the SEC every year can't be accurate, because we are beating teams that always have better online class rankings. FL, for example. And even though there was slippage this season, we have more than held our own against MO and SCar although their classes are always rated higher than ours. We have beaten LSU and PA St too. We could attempt to attribute this to phenomenal player development by our coaching staff, but most posters here do not appear willing to concede that point. But, secondly, contemporaneous ratings of recruiting classes represent an irrational standard, precisely for the reason that it takes years to assess the real value of any recruiting class. But as far as early assessments are concerned, I will continue to place more faith in offer sheets because I trust professional coaches more than online evaluators. JMO, but what I see gives me confidence in this perspective.
Firstly, the transfer portal is best utilized to plug roster holes. Virtually every SEC team has examples of key players who arrived through the portal (Ray Davis, Zion Childress, Keidron Smith, Dare Rosenthal). But they are surrounded by a core of players who were evaluated, recruited, and developed. Recruiting and developing hs players is the foundation of a successful SEC program. IMO, you are totally correct about what it says when a staff relies too heavily on transfers. And I agree that UK's 2024 class is "solid". In fact, I believe it is better than that because of Boley, Mizell, Patterson, Gilmore, Nichols, and the group of commitments (especially Brian Robinson) projectable for our front seven. In time, we will see if this is true. It takes years to assess the impact of a recruiting class because recruiting is among the least predictable of human behaviors.
LOL.
Evidently your wish is being granted.
This is an interesting class, one of Stoops' best if the offer sheets are telling us anything. I just hope nobody decommits. And it would be nice to add one more WR, OT, DT, or S.
Stoops has repeatedly out-coached teams with better players. As the old-timers would say, “He can beat you with his players, or take your players and beat you with your players.”
I have zero concern with our staff’s ability to develop talent. Where you and I probably disagree is the need to improve recruiting … and the value of recruiting rankings. First, I agree 110% that he has drastically improved recruiting. Yet, we will remain stuck in the middle of the SEC 2nd tier programs until recruiting improves. (The same is true for all the SEC teams in this murky middle.)
A valid discussion for another day and in its separate post is whether UK can ever ascend into top 10 recruiting classes.
I’m not advocating for the “tail to wag the dog.” In other words, I’m not a proponent of recruiting a player because of his ranking. But, most (not all) highly ranked players will have good offers and eventually turn into good or great players. You often correctly mention the low ranked players who outplayed their ranking and even spent time in NFL. I think these players are outliers and not the norm. Plus, I think it’s a testament to staff’s ability to develop players. However, if it was the winning formula then the top shelf programs would also make it their bread and butter.
This strategy was perfect for getting us to the place where we are today. (Very solid and stable program!) I think Stoops knows the next step requires better players. You can hear it in his comments about “pony up if you want better players” and in his comments about running the SEC gauntlet.
I don’t expect for it to happen overnight. But, I will pay attention to our recruiting rankings, not because rankings make the player, but because the best players are highly ranked. And, the best teams have the highly ranked classes stacked together. I cannot ignore the correlation between recruiting ranking and wins.
I’m thrilled beyond words that Stoops is staying!!! However, taking the next step will require better recruiting and better recruiting will be measured by recruiting rankings.
I’m guessing you’re using his total time at UK. We were a dumpster fire when he arrived.
Fla and SC have had more talent than us and we’ve beat Fla 3 in a row and SC five out of last seven years. Those wins didn’t just fall in our laps.
To your point, we need to recruit better to win more SEC games. UK, Mo, SC, Ole Miss, Arkansas, UT, Fla, Miss State, TxAm, and Auburn are all muddled together at that 2nd tier. 1-2 teams per year will break out and win 9-10 games, but they haven’t been able to sustain that level. Mo and Ole Miss did it this year. UT did it last year. Ironically, UK is only team on this list to win 10 games twice since 2018.
This is a recruiting post, so I’ll go back to the topic that we MUST improve recruiting to break out of this pack, or at least stay at the top of this list. Portal players that contribute are nice, but relying on them is an acknowledgment that we are not recruiting well at certain positions. (Look at position where we took the most portal players last year and you’ll see a gap in recruiting.)
Agree with this. We will break out when we have the piece that has been missing the entire Stoops Era. The QB capable of putting a team on his back. I think that QB is Saunders.
A bunch of good points there, especially about how great it is that Stoops will stay at UK. Also, your belief that recruiting is the bedrock for a successful SEC program.
I don't believe "most" highly rated prospects eventually develop into good or great players. I have been a studious observer of collrge football recruiting long enough to know better.
I also don't believe Josh Allen, Jamin Davis, Quinton Bohanna, Carrington Valentine, CRod, Benny Snell, Bunchy Stallings, Logan Stenberg, and Luke Fortner are "outliers". To a statistician or mathematician, the word "outlier" has an explicit definition. By definition all these players can't be "outliers" when there are so many of them. They are priducts of outstanding evaluation and development.
However, we certainly agree that effective recruiting is essential for a successful SEC football program. Stoops has recruited well, and he still is. However, our OL recruiting softened up after we lost the late John Schlarman, and that has hurt and stalled the program. In order for Stoops to engineer other double-digit win seasons in the future, recruiting at the premium positions (including OT) will have to take a step up and become more consistent. I have seen enough college football to understand effective recruiting isn't always necessarily reflected in online class rankings. But however we look at it, recruiting at the premium positions still has to be stepped up a notch or two. And that's going to require some upgrades in several position coaches, as well as continued growth of our recruiting budget IMO.
As you say, the discussion about our ultimate ceiling can be carried out on a different thread. But it is higher than what has happened so far in the Stoops era.
There’s no doubt these players were developed. I work with statistical analysis and know what outliers look like on a graph. If you calculate all the 3 star and under recruits we have brought in over the last 6-7 years I would estimate that to be around 90-100 players. (6 x 15 … I’m too lazy to look up individual recruiting rankings!) The graph would show the players you listed as statistical outliers. At the same time it would show a correlation between higher rated recruits and team success. Thus, winning teams typically have higher ranked recruiting classes.
Jimbo (and many other coaches) are proof that not every coach gets the same results with higher recruits. Still, the better teams have better recruits.
Here’s where I think we agree. I have zero concern about coaching or development. It Stoops’ strength. Yet, he knows that talent creates a ceiling for every team. (He talks about this ceiling.)
The question is how do we raise that overall ceiling? It will have to come through recruiting. My optimism causes me to think that one excellent pass rusher and one excellent QB can make everyone around them better. An excellent pass rusher led us to a 10 win season in 2018, and Levis led us to a 10 win season in 2020. I will not dump on existing players, but we didn’t have either game changing player this year. I’m optimistic that both positions have young players that can become a game-changer.
Can you imagine Stoops having both at the same time???
Peace!
Yes. An excellent QB and an excellent edge greatly influence the ceiling of a team as demonstrated by our ten win seasons. At some point, we will have both. That's when you hope your recruiting jumps up a level and you move up a tier.
Not 100% but was told Colorado of course, UT and UGA. Going in 2nd or 3rd is the same as 23rd, lol.
UGA has 1 of the top 10 in state kids committed, and he transferred in this summer. UGA is not big on the front end of NIL and kids are being bought by the highest bidder. One kid had been to Athens 50 times in the last year, many mid week visits, FSU bought him with 80k a month. They bought a TE from South GA, for close to that, no one makes better use of TE than UGA. Instate kids can't wait to leave, out of state kids want to come. UGA is going to hit the portal hard this cycle, going to lose quite a few to portal, so will have to bring in several.
It is what it is, Kirby's philosophy on NIL has cost us quite a few kid this cycle. Almost all to AU, FSU, UT, the only one headed to Colorado recruited by UGA was Mikell.
So there was some concern in this thread about how many kids we could offer this year, coupled with known needs in the portal.
It appears numbers will work out to have a full class, plus quite a few portal adds.
Every program it seems will lose 10-15 scholarship guys looking for the next best thing. Our team is no different with these early declarations already made.
It appears numbers will work out to have a full class, plus quite a few portal adds.
Every program it seems will lose 10-15 scholarship guys looking for the next best thing. Our team is no different with these early declarations already made.
Come on Grump....you stick your head in the dirt like an ostrich.....you're telling me UGA doesn't NIL but keeps the top class nearly every year? But the rest are buying dudes?
UGA bought the WR they needed from SEC schools in Lovett and RaRa THomas from Mizzou and Texas AM respectively. It's not wrong..so no shade. But stop being so uppity about how righteous Kirby/UGA are.
RECRUITING TEAM RANKINGS
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Last Updated: Nov 28, 2023 2:57 pm
2024
ALL TEAMS
| RANK | SCHOOL | TOTAL COMMITS | AVG | 5 STARS | 4 STARS | 3 STARS | POINTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | GEORGIA | 28 | 3.93 | 3 | 20 | 5 | 2985 |
| 2 | OHIO STATE | 23 | 3.96 | 4 | 14 | 5 | 2984 |
| 3 | FLORIDA STATE | 22 | 3.73 | 2 | 13 | 6 | 2640 |
| 4 | TEXAS | 20 | 3.8 | 2 | 13 | 4 | 2623 |
| 5 | OREGON | 25 | 3.72 | 0 | 18 | 7 | 2533 |
| 6 | OKLAHOMA | 27 | 3.7 | 1 | 17 | 9 | 2526 |
| 7 | NOTRE DAME | 23 | 3.7 | 0 | 16 | 7 | 2518 |
Yeah thankfully it sounds like Stoops had some blunt hard talks with some guys Monday. Shit or get off the pot, move on we need your slot to give to proven portal dudes.
The time of coddling recruited players by not bringing in competition from the portal needs to be over at UK. Don't like it, there is the door, or stay and work harder.
My general thoughts are that every player needs to be given till they’re rSo or Jr (if no redshirt season). If after that point they aren’t contributing, then it’s time to move on and they can be replaced by someone in the portal that has proven themselves. I know that is harsh but that is the reality of it now that kids can get paid.
Statistically, an outlier would be someone beyond the 3 sigma limit on the upper (or lower) end of the bell curve.
I'd argue at the edge will look some like
1. Jack LBer....Fearby, Keaton Wade, Noah Matthews
2. Sam Lber...Afari, Grant Godfrey, Elijah Groves...may stick here
I'd argue guys like Brian Robinson, Jacob Smith, etc...will outgrow outside Lber and go DE/DT with a hand in the dirt. But they may start at Jack and grow into that. Hard to tell whose body can put on weight and how much.
You stumped me with that lingo. Once in awhile I evaluate Pearson Correlation Analysis. These results are not causative, but rather show whether or not one set of data (independent) influences the second set of data (dependent).
There is a statistical correlation between team recruiting rankings and a team’s winning percentages. (I feel nerdy just typing that statement!)
I should have said an outlier should be well outside the three-sigma limit of the bell curve which contains 99.7% of a normal distribution. A true outlier may indicate that the data point may be from another distribution entirely or it may indicate a measurement error. I was kicked out of a class test score distribution because I was beyond the six-sigma limit of the distribution. The teacher thought I was cheating, so he removed me from the curve. I wasn't cheating, I was just really good at taking his tests.
There should be a correlation between rankings and winning percentages if rankings are any good at all. A few teams will exceed the expectations based on rankings and a few teams will underperform based on rankings. Nerds Unite!
What was the "ceiling" on Josh Allen, the two star recruit who won the Bronko Nagurski Trophy? What was the "ceiling" on Jamin Davis, the lightly recruited low-three star recruit who became an NFL first round draft choice? What was the "ceiling" on lightly recruited Brandin Echols and Carrington Valentine? Where we still disagree, apparently, seems to be that you still equate online player ratings with "talent". I still don't. I believe coaches evaluate talent better than websites do. To my eyes, people believe what they want to believe, and a lot of people badly want to believe online player ratings equate to talent. When you call players like Allen and Davis (and Benny, CRod, Bunchy, Bohanna, and so forth) "outliers", that says where you stand. I have seen way too many "outliers", both in terms of overachievers and underachievers.
At the end of the day, online class rankings and player ratings don't put any points on the board. The best player, by far, Stoops has recruited at UK was a two star. OTOH, the highest rated player Stoops has recruited to UK is already out of football less than two years later. Make of that whatever you prefer. I respect your knowledge of the game, but I trust our coaches to evaluate talent.
Not only is it harsh, but that approach would have cost us Jamin Davis, Darius West, Jalen Geiger, Calvin Taylor, Blake Bone, Brenden Bates, and AJ Rose.
Let's circle back to our 2024 class.
Cutter Boley, QB, Lexington, KY
Lorenzo Cowan, LB, Savannah, GA
Hartley Gilmore, WR, Pahokee, FL
Elijah Groves, LB, Cross Plains, TN
Hayes Johnson, OL, Campbellsville, KY
Jacob Kauwe, P/K, Billings, MT
Jadon Lafontant, OL, Greenwich, CT
Jiquavious Marshall, DB, Macon, GA
Tovani Mizell, RB, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Marc Nave, OL, Toledo, OH
Terhyon Nichols, DB, Cincinnati, OH
Jason Patterson, RB, Sneads, FL
Caleb Redd, LB, St. Louis, MO
Willie Rodriguez, TE, Alexandria, KY
Brian Robinson, DL, Westerville, OH
Quaysheed Scott, DB, Marion, SC
Aba Selm, OL, Independence, KY
Antwan Smith, DB, Atlanta, GA
Devin Smith, Brunswick, GA
Jacob Smith, LB, Corbin, KY
Jerod Smith, DL, Corbin, KY
Steven Soles, LB, Powell, TN
David Washington, slotR, Philadelphia, PA
Who is still left on UK's 2024 recruiting board?
Cam Dooley, S, Valley, AL
Marcus Downs, DL, Greer, SC
Donovan Hamilton, WR, Fishers, IN
Tyshawn Sanders, DB, Marion, SC
If is not clear whether any of these four holds a UK offer that is still committable. It is also not clear whether any other new names might still emerge at the last minute. With the transfer portal window opening now, it appears that most of the attention of UK's coaching staff is currently focused on the portal and especially on offensive transfers. Another late addition to our 2024 class would not be a surprise. But OTOH, these 23 commitments might be the entire class.
Another thing. The following players are leaving UK through the portal-
Grant Bingham
Dekel Crowdus
Izayah Cummings
Luke Fulton
Jalen Geiger
Jutahn McClain
These aren't the last outbound transfers. There will be more. And that clears roster space for more inbound transfers in this cycle. I still expect UK's OL and WR rooms to undergo major revisions, and we still need a starting QB.
Cutter Boley, QB, Lexington, KY
Lorenzo Cowan, LB, Savannah, GA
Hartley Gilmore, WR, Pahokee, FL
Elijah Groves, LB, Cross Plains, TN
Hayes Johnson, OL, Campbellsville, KY
Jacob Kauwe, P/K, Billings, MT
Jadon Lafontant, OL, Greenwich, CT
Jiquavious Marshall, DB, Macon, GA
Tovani Mizell, RB, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Marc Nave, OL, Toledo, OH
Terhyon Nichols, DB, Cincinnati, OH
Jason Patterson, RB, Sneads, FL
Caleb Redd, LB, St. Louis, MO
Willie Rodriguez, TE, Alexandria, KY
Brian Robinson, DL, Westerville, OH
Quaysheed Scott, DB, Marion, SC
Aba Selm, OL, Independence, KY
Antwan Smith, DB, Atlanta, GA
Devin Smith, Brunswick, GA
Jacob Smith, LB, Corbin, KY
Jerod Smith, DL, Corbin, KY
Steven Soles, LB, Powell, TN
David Washington, slotR, Philadelphia, PA
Who is still left on UK's 2024 recruiting board?
Cam Dooley, S, Valley, AL
Marcus Downs, DL, Greer, SC
Donovan Hamilton, WR, Fishers, IN
Tyshawn Sanders, DB, Marion, SC
If is not clear whether any of these four holds a UK offer that is still committable. It is also not clear whether any other new names might still emerge at the last minute. With the transfer portal window opening now, it appears that most of the attention of UK's coaching staff is currently focused on the portal and especially on offensive transfers. Another late addition to our 2024 class would not be a surprise. But OTOH, these 23 commitments might be the entire class.
Another thing. The following players are leaving UK through the portal-
Grant Bingham
Dekel Crowdus
Izayah Cummings
Luke Fulton
Jalen Geiger
Jutahn McClain
These aren't the last outbound transfers. There will be more. And that clears roster space for more inbound transfers in this cycle. I still expect UK's OL and WR rooms to undergo major revisions, and we still need a starting QB.
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I think the surprises are more likely to be in the form of inbound and outbound transfers. We are going to get a surprise with the new WR coach hire. And, frankly, I am very surprised Zach Yenser hasn't been fired yet.
As far as the 2024 class is concerned, if there is a remaining surprise of significant dimensions, it would probably be a flip. I do not believe UK's coaches can flip Rico Scott from AL. But we still might see a WR or OT flip. There is plenty of time for flips.
It is worth mentioning that Kendall Jackson has decommitted from FL, and his mother really liked UK. But I have heard that UK's staff considers Brian Robinson and Jerod Smith better versions of Jackson. According to that narrative, Jackson waited too long and his UK offer is no longer committable. He had his chance.
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Kendall Jackson recently decommitted. UK was most likely 2nd the first time around. Miami recruited him hard also
From what I have heard, it won't happen for Jackson and UK. The narrative goes that Brian Robinson's and Jerod Smith's firm UK commitments have changed the recruiting approach for our front seven for this class. Of course, those things can change if you get down to figuring out what to do with one leftover scholarship.
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