Reed is an Elite Defender - Why do so many people disagree?

[aceman509]

I keep seeing this narrative that Reed is a bad defender, or people saying the issue with playing Reed/Dilly/Reeves lineups is because of how poor they are all on defense.

Let's look at the numbers and advanced metrics for a second, because the numbers have no bias and are objective facts.

Defensive Rating: 98.8 (10th in the SEC)
Defensive Win Shares: 1.4 (7th in the SEC)
Defensive Box Plus/Minus: 6.0 (2nd in the SEC)
Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating: 3.66 (3rd in the SEC) (https://evanmiya.com/?player_ratings)

He also leads the SEC in steals (70) and steal percentage (5.2)


It is an objective fact that Reed is ELITE defensively. For people to say he is just average on defense is one thing, but to act like he actually hurts us is mind boggling and based off of lazy "eye tests" without any merit behind them. Has Reed been caught sagging off shooters sometimes? Yes. Has everyone else on our team? Yes.

 

[UK90]

He certainly is elite when it comes to getting steals. Dude has a truly special knack for reading passing lanes and anticipating where the ball’s gonna be and getting his hands there.

But I wouldn’t call him an elite defender as a cover guy.

 

[JonathanW]

Reed is good at the stats (steals and even blocks). But a lot of defense cannot be summarized by stats (sort of like how well a catcher in baseball calls the game). Just watch the games. He gets beat off the dribble a lot, and is too far off his man a lot (more than can recover) allowing open 3's.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I keep seeing this narrative that Reed is a bad defender, or people saying the issue with playing Reed/Dilly/Reeves lineups is because of how poor they are all on defense.

Let's look at the numbers and advanced metrics for a second, because the numbers have no bias and are objective facts.

Defensive Rating: 98.8 (10th in the SEC)
Defensive Win Shares: 1.4 (7th in the SEC)
Defensive Box Plus/Minus: 6.0 (2nd in the SEC)
Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating: 3.66 (3rd in the SEC) (https://evanmiya.com/?player_ratings)

He also leads the SEC in steals (70) and steal percentage (5.2)


It is an objective fact that Reed is ELITE defensively. For people to say he is just average on defense is one thing, but to act like he actually hurts us is mind boggling and based off of lazy "eye tests" without any merit behind them. Has Reed been caught sagging off shooters sometimes? Yes. Has everyone else on our team? Yes.

Probably because he consistently gets lost on the defensive end, leading to wide open 3s (happened twice against LSU)...and hasn't met a ball fake he doesn't lunge at.

Those are a few things that come to mind that show me Reed is not an "elite" defender...

 

[CrimsonCats]

He’s a weird player defensively. He’s elite at getting steals and blocks a lot of shots for a guard, so he’s not a complete non-contributor on that end. He’s not nearly as good at staying in front of his man when he’s guarding the ball though, and he’s also been prone to hunting steals so aggressively that he loses his man even when playing off the ball. It’s those flaws that cause people to question his defense, especially since his mistakes have come back to bite us in some key moments like Florida’s shot to force OT.

 

[Jamal Mercer]

Does anyone use the eye test anymore?

Reed gets beat 20 times a game, but he’s great at stripping the ball and anticipation. Like….really great at it. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone slap down square on the ball as cleanly as he does every single time.

But still, awful at moving his feet and staying in front of his man, and just leaving his man wide open for a 3 somewhat often.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Does anyone use the eye test anymore?

Reed gets beat 20 times a game, but he’s great at stripping the ball and anticipation. Like….really great at it. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone slap down square on the ball as cleanly as he does every single time.

But still, awful at moving his feet and staying in front of his man, and just leaving his man wide open for a 3 somewhat often.

Perfectly summed up.

 

[ukfan1622]

He's a gambler on defense. Sometimes he wins and sometimes he loses but the numbers say that overall he is a good defensive player.

 

[BlueBomb]

Does anyone use the eye test anymore?

Reed gets beat 20 times a game, but he’s great at stripping the ball and anticipation. Like….really great at it. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone slap down square on the ball as cleanly as he does every single time.

But still, awful at moving his feet and staying in front of his man, and just leaving his man wide open for a 3 somewhat often.

This.

The truth is that he has poor lateral quickness, and doesn't possess elite athleticism. So, he gets beat off the dribble too often.

That said, he's easily my favorite player. His headiness and basketball IQ are off the charts. He's going to break Rondo's single season steals record. So, I have no problem accepting certain deficiencies, given what else he brings to the table.

 

[JwUKFan11]

Does anyone use the eye test anymore?

Reed gets beat 20 times a game, but he’s great at stripping the ball and anticipation. Like….really great at it. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone slap down square on the ball as cleanly as he does every single time.

But still, awful at moving his feet and staying in front of his man, and just leaving his man wide open for a 3 somewhat often.

Yep. He's not an elite on ball defender, he's great in transition, help defense, etc.

 

[FitchandMurray29]

The stats are great.

If you truly believe he is an elite defender you would have to believe he would shut down Mark Sears tomorrow. I don’t believe anybody thinks that will happen.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

He’s Travis Ford like in that he’s great off the ball and reading passing lanes.

But he’s not good at guarding his man.

He’s far bigger and more athletic than Travis.

 

[shaudyshaud]

It’s tough for guards to consistently lock down guards in todays game. Even if he isn’t elite he’s pretty dang good .

 

[ukfan1622]

It’s tough for guards to consistently lock down guards in todays game. Even if he isn’t elite he’s pretty dang good .

Reminds me of how nobody in the NBA can play a lick of defense because they can't shut down guys like Luka and SGA.

 

[ukfan1622]

The stats are great.

If you truly believe he is an elite defender you would have to believe he would shut down Mark Sears tomorrow. I don’t believe anybody thinks that will happen.

That guy is a beast for anybody to guard and Reed will just be one of several players guarding him. If not being able to shut down an elite scorer in a single game makes you not an elite defender then Bill Russell was not an elite defender because Wilt had some huge scoring games against him.

 

[UKrazycat2]

He is what he is at this point as a freshman guard on our team. The most unselfish pg on our team. Reed is about winning and doesn't look to pad his own stats. He's not perfect but, figures don't lie. I'll take Reed as our starting pg 7days a week and twice on Sunday. Figures don't lie but liars do figure.

The problem is Cal is lost in pushing certain players to the nba that aren't ready.

 

[aceman509]

Does anyone use the eye test anymore?

Reed gets beat 20 times a game, but he’s great at stripping the ball and anticipation. Like….really great at it. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone slap down square on the ball as cleanly as he does every single time.

But still, awful at moving his feet and staying in front of his man, and just leaving his man wide open for a 3 somewhat often.

This just isn't true. Show me specific examples of this happening. You can't. Theres been a handful of times this season where he has gotten taken off the dribble straight up, and almost all of those were early on. It hasn't happened in months. If you actually watch the film he is very good at staying in front of his man.

The leaving his man thing is semi-true but its almost always because he is recovering to help off on someone else who was beat.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Keep telling yourself that OP.

 

[Rockfly78]

Reed struggles with lateral movement and doesn’t have the quickest feet. He gets lost a lot too. But if he’s near the ball he has a nose for it. Still cant guard his man if he had a gun and a badge.

 

[aceman509]

The stats are great.

If you truly believe he is an elite defender you would have to believe he would shut down Mark Sears tomorrow. I don’t believe anybody thinks that will happen.

This is the problem with how people discuss defense now. First of all, there are so many on/off ball screens and switches/pick ups in transition that very, very rarely are you playing 1 on 1 with someone. Its a team game. Secondly, the advantage is always going to go to a good offensive player. Thats just how it works.

Elite defense is about being a team defender, rotating correctly, taking proper gambles, causing deflections/steals/blocks, closing out as best you can. Reed is elite at all of the above.

 

[aceman509]

Keep telling yourself that OP.

I am not telling myself anything, its not my opinion. I am just reporting what the metrics say.

 

[Cats192]

I am not telling myself anything, its not my opinion. I am just reporting what the metrics say.

I don't need your defensive ratings to know Reed ball watches and falls asleep. He gets beaten off the dribble. Yes, he gets a ton of steals. But he gives up a lot of open looks as well.

Some of you have decided "Well the metrics say it, so it's right." That's not the case. Metrics can be flawed. Metrics may not tell the full story.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I am not telling myself anything, its not my opinion. I am just reporting what the metrics say.

Do you think Shep is elite at staying in front of his man?

Do you think Shep is elite in staying on his man while off the ball?

Do you think Shep is elite at not falling for pump fakes?

Those are just a few questions you have to ask yourself while honestly assessing if he is elite defensively.

I love Shep as much as the next guy, but he is nowhere close to an elite defender.

 

[UKrazycat2]

I don't need your defensive ratings to know Reed ball watches and falls asleep. He gets beaten off the dribble. Yes, he gets a ton of steals. But he gives up a lot of open looks as well.

Some of you have decided "Well the metrics say it, so it's right." That's not the case. Metrics can be flawed. Metrics may not tell the full story.

Reed is the best pg on this team. The problem is Calipari won't play the best players he has at the other positions. He has to get Edwards and DJ drafted. It's obvious.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

I am not telling myself anything, it’s not my opinion. I am just reporting what the metrics say.

I get it. I see the numbers. But I also have eyes. He’s not an elite defender. I love the kid. I think he’s our best player. He’s amazing when it comes to to team defense. But he suffers mightily when in terms of stopping ball, containment, ball watching, switching, communicating, etc. there is a reason opposing coaches go at him repeatedly. He gets blown by easily; he loses his man A LOT; he is out of position A LOT. He’s just not a great man to man defender. Definitely not elite.

 

[CBBCrazy]

Reed is a good defender, what makes him look elite is the rest of this team. Reed doesn't get beat anymore than anyone else on this team. Ask Dilly where he was at when his man scored the winning bucket at LSU. Reed is a complete player, he needs work on D and needs to take more shots. Any other coach not named Cal would set screens to get those shots, but what do I know? I don't make 9 mil a year.

 

[MegaBlue05]

This just isn't true. Show me specific examples of this happening. You can't. Theres been a handful of times this season where he has gotten taken off the dribble straight up, and almost all of those were early on. It hasn't happened in months. If you actually watch the film he is very good at staying in front of his man.

The leaving his man thing is semi-true but its almost always because he is recovering to help off on someone else who was beat.

From my eyes Reed gets at least 3 threes splashed in his face every game because of late closeouts or helping too far off his man.

 

[UKrazycat2]

Do you think Shep is elite at staying in front of his man?

Do you think Shep is elite in staying on his man while off the ball?

Do you think Shep is elite at not falling for pump fakes?

Those are just a few questions you have to ask yourself while honestly assessing if he is elite defensively.

I love Shep as much as the next guy, but he is nowhere close to an elite defender.

Just one question. Not picking on you. Name me one player on this team that is elite. The only thing I know is when Reed is at pg we always make a run to climb out of a slump. It's obvious.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

This just isn't true. Show me specific examples of this happening. You can't. Theres been a handful of times this season where he has gotten taken off the dribble straight up, and almost all of those were early on. It hasn't happened in months. If you actually watch the film he is very good at staying in front of his man.

The leaving his man thing is semi-true but it’s almost always because he is recovering to help off on someone else who was beat.

Semi True? He leaves his man more than Taylor Swift. And it’s almost entirely due to ball watching. When he stays locked on his man, he’s good. Problem is he just loses him often.

 

[ThunderCat98]

He’s Travis Ford like in that he’s great off the ball and reading passing lanes.

But he’s not good at guarding his man.

He’s far bigger and more athletic than Travis.

This^^^

Tremendous off-ball/help defender. Terrible man-to-man.

 

[Boyd94]

I don't need your defensive ratings to know Reed ball watches and falls asleep. He gets beaten off the dribble. Yes, he gets a ton of steals. But he gives up a lot of open looks as well.

Some of you have decided "Well the metrics say it, so it's right." That's not the case. Metrics can be flawed. Metrics may not tell the full story.

So, do you believe we have a good overall defense or do you believe the metrics?

 

[L.O.D.]

He's a GREAT help defender yes. He has great understanding of where to be to get steals like Oscar did rebounds and even gets some blocks occasionally. He gets most out of what he has on defense which is more than I can say for anyone else. RD an Wagner should be elite defenders but they aren't. Only legit defender on team is Thierro and maybe Ugo.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Just one question. Not picking on you. Name me one player on this team that is elite. The only thing I know is when Reed is at pg we always make a run to climb out of a slump. It's obvious.

Nobody on this team is elite defensively, hence UK has crappy team defensive metrics.

But that is not what the OP is arguing...he is specifically calling out Shep as an elite defender, which is not the case. He has many defensive flaws, which we all see every game.

And of course Reed should be starting, I don't think anyone is arguing that. But just because he should be starting doesn't mean he is some great defender as well...

 

[ukfan1622]

We have been a poor defensive team so probably none of our players are elite defensively. Sheppard might not be elite but he's not average to below average like some are saying. Average to below average defenders do not get 15 steals in 3 games. Ever. Seeing a lot of guys do that?

 

[ZenCatFan73]

Just by the eye test, he’s not elite. He’s great at stripping the ball, but not elite. That doesn’t mean he’s not a good player. Just my opinion.

 

[JFCats22]

Great off ball defense, terrible on ball defender. Loses his man and ball watches WAY too much.

However, Reed’s refusal to shoot the damn ball is a much bigger issue than his defense.

 

[ConbonBBN]

I keep seeing this narrative that Reed is a bad defender, or people saying the issue with playing Reed/Dilly/Reeves lineups is because of how poor they are all on defense.

Let's look at the numbers and advanced metrics for a second, because the numbers have no bias and are objective facts.

Defensive Rating: 98.8 (10th in the SEC)
Defensive Win Shares: 1.4 (7th in the SEC)
Defensive Box Plus/Minus: 6.0 (2nd in the SEC)
Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating: 3.66 (3rd in the SEC) (https://evanmiya.com/?player_ratings)

He also leads the SEC in steals (70) and steal percentage (5.2)


It is an objective fact that Reed is ELITE defensively. For people to say he is just average on defense is one thing, but to act like he actually hurts us is mind boggling and based off of lazy "eye tests" without any merit behind them. Has Reed been caught sagging off shooters sometimes? Yes. Has everyone else on our team? Yes.

He is a good team defender (plays passing lanes, gets steals/blocks) Nobody is saying otherwise.

He is not a good man to man defender. He gets blown by very easily by more athletic guards. And he ball watches which leads to his man getting open shots. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.

 

[Fox2monk]

This just isn't true. Show me specific examples of this happening. You can't. Theres been a handful of times this season where he has gotten taken off the dribble straight up, and almost all of those were early on. It hasn't happened in months. If you actually watch the film he is very good at staying in front of his man.

The leaving his man thing is semi-true but its almost always because he is recovering to help off on someone else who was beat.

I can show you a ton of clips of him losing his man for a 3. Including a couple game winners or fouls.

 

[Boyd94]

I can show you a ton of clips of him losing his man for a 3. Including a couple game winners or fouls.

Even the best defense has lapses.

 

[Fox2monk]

Even the best defense has lapses.

He’s not close to the best though. I love Reed and he’s a great player but he’s not a defensive stopper. He does some things well, and some things poorly. He’s not terrible but he’s not solid enough for what we need right now. Nobody on this team is though so I’m not hating on just him. The team doesn’t help much.