I can pretty much guarantee that if Ulis was running the point we wouldn't have had 3 consecutive shot clock violations .
Recruit more shooters/basketball players, fewer athletes.
- Thread starter Robcatt24
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Early in the year I heard a prominent coach say because of the shortened shot clock he was going to start putting more emphasis on shooters . His opinion was , a lot of times the offense will break down and when the shot clock is winding down the guy that has the ball BETTER be able to make a shot . I hate to say who it was but this did make sense to me .
But see you're worried about it too. That's why you feel the need to respond to me with such vigor. Deep down you are worried about Cal's stubbornness. You've seen it cost him, cost UK, and you are afraid it could happen again.
I'm laughing and shaking my head in disbelief at most of this thread. Rowland is one of few in this thread with some sense.
Tyler Ulis is a great player. Better this year, even, than last. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that when Kentucky was 38-0 people weren't freaking out en masse because Calipari was giving equal minutes to a pair of future NBA picks who already had Final Four experience with a history of making clutch plays and presenting match up problems.
Hindsight is fun but we shouldn't act like most people thought Calipari was wrong at the time. Yes, there were a lot of national pundits who said Ulis should have taken more of the Harrison twins' minutes. But to my recollection most Kentucky fans were fiercely loyal & defensive for their head coach -- who was 38-0.
The problem with most criticisms of Calipari is this: They are first world problems. They may be legitimate on this or that point, but if it weren't for the good that he does you'd be making criticisms that would probably be much worse.
I saw the title of this thread and thought I would look to see if you had posted. Sure enough, any slightly negative post about Cal, or UK for that matter, and you jump right in. Why are you here, since you are so against Cal and UK? Not the best bench coach, and stubbornness are always your two main themes. We understand that is what you think. We get it. And back to the original topic, Cal tried to recruit Kennard who was considered one of the best shooters in the class. At Duke, he is shooting 42.3% overall, and 29.6% from 3 pt range, and you see how it has worked out for Duke.
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It would be nice to have one guy every year who can just drain shots. Doesn't have to play great defense, or even a lot of minutes, but just comes in and consistently knocks it down. That's part of the reason people were excited about Willis playing. Yeah, he grabs rebounds, but I'll be damn if simply making shots doesn't solve a lot of woes.
On the other hand, Cal did get Devin Booker, he just couldn't hit anything the last couple of months, so what the hell do you do? Other than Doron Lamb, Cal just isn't lucky with shooters.
On the other hand, Cal did get Devin Booker, he just couldn't hit anything the last couple of months, so what the hell do you do? Other than Doron Lamb, Cal just isn't lucky with shooters.
i don't think that calipari believed the twins were better at basketball than ulis & booker in april 2015
he essentially said he felt that he owed it to them to leave them out there. i believe him
kennard was recruited hard by uk and became enamored with duke. screw him
he essentially said he felt that he owed it to them to leave them out there. i believe him
kennard was recruited hard by uk and became enamored with duke. screw him
This is basically correct. The primary effect I've noticed from the shortened clock is that it's forced guys to fork up more ugly or bad low percentage shots they'd normally not take, but it has NOT made the game better to watch.
But it does mean you better have more guys on the floor who can actually hit those desperation prayers.
Just for clarification:
Shooters recruited 2015
1. Skal
2. Murray
3. Mulder
4. Humphries
so..........Skal has been terrible, because he CAN"T REBOUND. He is the BEST shooter we have ever had in our interior and it so happens we have struggling team.
Shooters recruited 2014
1. KAT
2. Lyles
3. Booker
4. Ulis
Pretty much the whole class, but the you have sophomore vets, it REALLY helps.
Our championship team btw,
We recruited 3 super athletes without shooting touch in
Teague, Davis, MKG. Surrounded by just two shooters in Lamb and Miller.
BTW< Miller was also part of Athlete, not a shooter. So Lamb really have been the shooter.
I agree that we need basketball players, but that's easier said than done. I think Coach Cal has been recruiting basketball player. Did you know that Twins were considered shooters with big size?
My biggest thing is, how do we motivate these young kids to learn to develop their game more seriously while in school?
I'm not sure why we always focus on a coach. Is it Coach Kerr that helped Steph Curry to become the greatest shooter ever? or is it self motivated?
Losers focus on the coach, while Winners focus on themselves and push them farther and farther ahead. MJ, Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Magic, Larry, etc. etc.
Loser poster focus on the coach, while players all need to look themselves in the mirror and pick up their intensity.
Shooters recruited 2015
1. Skal
2. Murray
3. Mulder
4. Humphries
so..........Skal has been terrible, because he CAN"T REBOUND. He is the BEST shooter we have ever had in our interior and it so happens we have struggling team.
Shooters recruited 2014
1. KAT
2. Lyles
3. Booker
4. Ulis
Pretty much the whole class, but the you have sophomore vets, it REALLY helps.
Our championship team btw,
We recruited 3 super athletes without shooting touch in
Teague, Davis, MKG. Surrounded by just two shooters in Lamb and Miller.
BTW< Miller was also part of Athlete, not a shooter. So Lamb really have been the shooter.
I agree that we need basketball players, but that's easier said than done. I think Coach Cal has been recruiting basketball player. Did you know that Twins were considered shooters with big size?
My biggest thing is, how do we motivate these young kids to learn to develop their game more seriously while in school?
I'm not sure why we always focus on a coach. Is it Coach Kerr that helped Steph Curry to become the greatest shooter ever? or is it self motivated?
Losers focus on the coach, while Winners focus on themselves and push them farther and farther ahead. MJ, Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Magic, Larry, etc. etc.
Loser poster focus on the coach, while players all need to look themselves in the mirror and pick up their intensity.
And there's the problem, you really can't guarantee that the possession would have ended any differently, just like I can't tell you they wouldn't have. But if you could guarantee that with Ulis shot clock violations wouldn't have happened, you certainly can't guarantee that a good shot would have happened, and further that even if a good shot did happen that the shot would go in. There are only a few possible endings to those possessions, and unfortunately most of those possibilities don't change the outcome of the game. By the way, you do realize that we have had shot clock violations late in close games this year, with Ulis at point guard, right? Now not that they changed the outcome, but they did happen. And if Ulis could change the outcome of those possessions offensively, what happens with him on the court defensively? People have to realize that any changes to the decisions Cal has made, have a chain reaction affect. You can't just change the wrongs without affecting the rights.
I agree with your last several points about the playing rotation but the other point that was made was probably true. We had the #1 or #2 draft pick in the country on our team coming off a truly dominant performance against Notre Dame and when the undefeated season is on the line our season defining play was to iso Andrew Harrison for 3 straight possessions and let him score or penetrate and pitch. A play should have been ran for Towns who already is one of the top 25 players in the world after 1/2 of one NBA season.
However the larger issue is that Cal and his staff at UK have not after 7 years displayed the ability to coach and develop basic offensive basketball fundamentals at all. James Young and Alex Poythress could never dribble more than twice without traveling in a game. We had by my count 5 travels against Kansas. James Young was the worst passing player I have ever seen play at UK and that is not exaggeration and he displayed no growth or development in that department during his time here. The staff does a great job with developing post games for big guys. Cousins, Randle, Davis, Towns all got a lot better at back to the basket scoring during there time at UK. And the staff has a track record of giving players confidence to blossom like Liggins, Harrellson and Miller. But those guys were already very skilled players who just needed a confidence boast to grow as basketball players. If a guy comes to UK and he can't dribble, pass or shoot very well I'm seeing a disturbing lack of growth and development in his basic basketball fundamentals during his time in Lexington.
Both Miller and Liggins were terrible shooters until their junior years, which was Calipari's second year. Poythress and Lee are the only guys who I can think of who have been around a while who just haven't improved much. It's not realistic to expect someone to become a great passer, shooter, or ballhandler over the course of one season if they haven't already displayed an affinity for those skills.
vision is pretty hard to teach
especially in one year
oh they called a bunch of travels in a packed allen fieldhouse what a shock fire the coach
We don't hate criticism of Cal, we just can't stand the posters that do it CONSTANTLY. It's all you ever post and you're surprised that people get upset with you? Really? You say you want Cal here but you think he has costs us at least 2 titles? That makes no sense at all. Who would want a coach that they believe has cost them multiple titles (at least, you say)? If you would just post something besides criticism of Cal, people may take your opinions more seriously but instead, you choose to CONSTANTLY bash and criticize. Then you play the "Can't criticize Cal" card as your passive aggressive response. It's ridiculous and flat out ignorant. You've taken it on as a badge of honor or something when it's simply ignorance and stubbornness.
Lol. Lamb, willis, knight, young, booker, ulis, aaron, wiltjer,murray....yeah we never recruit shooters...especially kids that shoot at a high level in hs. Sounds like you should be an iu fan and pray for another jordan hulls..they got so far
How are Tyler and Devin last year an example? If you're talking about the Wisconsin game, they didn't play more because the twins were clearly playing better. Not that complicated.
I agree there's a lot of speculating going on . The one fact is , we had 3 consecutive shot clock violations at crunch time ! I'm better I've watched ten thousand basketball games and I've never seen that before .
Which is exactly why people should realize two things, that last year was a truly special team, and that once you get to the Elite Eight or Final Four, anything can happen and luck plays a lot bigger part than most people will admit. Last year, we went 38-1, and the 1 loss was to the statistically best offensive team in the last 15-20 years, plus it took 3 shot clock violations in the last 3 minutes. This is why so many believe that undefeated will never happen again, and are quite possibly correct in saying that.
My biggest problem is not with people who question some decisions Cal has made. My problem is with the people who act like there was a clear better decision at the time the decision was made, as if anybody who knows anything about basketball could do better. Like Justin said, people's problems with Cal are first world problems, but the make them out to be life and death situations.
Cal may never win another title, or he might win the next 2 or 3. Nobody knows, and it will likely depend on the match-ups they face during those tournaments. But one thing is for certain, there hasn't been a better 7 year run by any UK coach in my lifetime, and you would likely have to go back to the 50s to find one better.
Respectfully I think there was clearly a better decision to go to Towns on a post up....the two critical possessions down the stretch on the first Towns had position and Andrew waived him off to drive iso and then the next possession we posted up up Lyles instead of Towns and he charged. Dekker scored 5 straight and the game was over. With the game on the line I want the best player with the ball taking the shot unless the other team double teams and he has to give it up. Towns was single covered on both possessions and we let Andrew Harrison and Trey Lyles take the shots and they missed.
It's not easy to recruit elite shooters. I would rather go out and find a couple of good shooters, who is maybe a decent athletes, and teach then how to become defensive players. In my experience it's too hard to try and develop poor shooters into good shooter at the collegiate level.
Let me ask you this, when is Cal supposed to "fix" or develop these fundamental skills to James Young? Yes, he was a horrible passer but just when is Cal supposed to fix that issue? In the 2 1/2 months of practice time before their freshman year? Anyone with any experience in coaching will tell you that bad habits and bad mechanics are the hardest things to change in players. It's impossible to fix these "issues" with players who are only here for 1 year. It's just not possible. Since we rely on freshman so much, Cal must spend his time with them figuring out how they'll play and getting the most production out of them that he can. If you're going to make this argument, it's not fair to include ANY players who have been here for only a single season. It's just not realistic. Now, if you want to talk about the multi year guys that way then ok, that may have a bit more credibility. However, you have to realize that you're only talking about 1, 2, or 3 players total that you can say this about. Most every player that Cal has had has made great strides from year to year. Some players are not ever going to be able to do some things, that's just the way it is. Questioning Cal's ability based on just a few players is just not fair and kinda absurd. I'm sorry, that's just how I feel about it.
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Oh, you mean like when they posted Towns down 3 late, and he has the ball taken from him?? To beat it all, the refs bailed him out with a foul call, to which Towns only made 1 of 2, then the game was actually over, as they were missing free throws, and quickly made it a 2 possession game with not much time left. Is that the play you were wanting???
For a lot of people's understanding of basketball, that just doesn't make very much sense at all. If you want to tell those people that somebody is very talented, you cannot tell them the individual cannot shoot. Particularly for any player in a backcourt / wing position.
Yeah it is....it's a mathematical analysis. You want your player with the highest field goal percentage taking a quality shot as close to the hoop as possible. Towns field goal percentage last year was 56.64% second highest on the team behind WCS who was slightly higher at 57.2% but that is inflated with dunks and layups which you cannot generate on demand like a traditional post up. Statistically speaking a Towns post up has the highest chance of success...much much more than a shot by Andrew Harrison who had a FG % of 37.83 or Aaron Harrison who shot 39.46% for the year.
It's always easy after the fact with recruiting. But Lee was a project from the get go and was never supposed to be a go to guy. And when I saw Briscoe in the all star games he looked great shooting wise from everywhere. He even won the 3 point shooting contest at one game that I watched so who knew he would shoot so badly when he got here.
Maybe you ain't been shocked but Willis has rebounded much better then I ever thought he would do besides lock down defense he's done his part.
If all of our players had the feel for the game that Ulis has--we would be undefeated and win the tourney walking away. We do not have that kind of team because Cal recruits Athletes and not basketball players. We have guys like Poythress---who start and play major minutes---who can't dribble or rebound the ball. On paper they are world beaters. On the court--not so much. I love em all but they are only basketball players in the academic sense--yes--they are on a basketball team and they are good athletes--but that's it. Ulis is the only guy who seems to love and study the game. The other guys are just big and athletic and want to make millions of dollars at the next level. It is what it is and it is what Cal wants to do. I think Cal is the best coach in this era we could have and I can't think of anyone better but this is the price that we have to pay for him being the coach. Some years the talent is not talented or driven enough to be elite. Deal with it or get a different coach. THis is how it is always gonna be with a coach that only concerns himself with getting young guys ready for the NBA.
Sorry but did you ever see Alex play in high school? He was a player, not sure what happened to him since the Duke game in his freshmen year but he was way more then just an athlete.
You run basketball fundamental drills just like every high school coach in the country does in practice. Okay just so we're clear i'm not allowed to critique Cal's coaching at all by commenting on: John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Patrick Patterson (only with Cal one year), Eric Bledsoe, Darnell Dodson (only with Cal one year), Daniel Orton, Ramon Harris (only with Cal one year), Perry Stevenson (only with Cal one year), Brandon Knight, Anthony Davis, Michael Kid-Gilchrist, Marquis Teague, Stacey Poole, Archie Goodwin, Nerlens Noel, Julius Mays (only with Cal one year), Julius Randle, James Young, Karl Anthony Towns, Devin Booker, or Trey Lyles??? Are there any other players left???
He said something to that effect. Don't remember the exact wording. Think about it though. After the run Aaron had in '14 how the hell could you take him out at the end of the game when it's close? The kid was the most clutch player at the end of those games I've ever seen. I'm fairly certain thats what he meant when he said what he did. Can you imagine if he'd taken Aaron out and they still lost how people would have screamed that our best clutch player was on the bench?
Regarding Kennard, I agree with your statement
. Which is funny because prior to the season, I was really disappointed we missed on him but this year his shooting has been bad and his defense atrocious. He'd be doing nothing for us.
