Yeah. No player is perfect. They all make mistakes. Even Ulis and Murray, who by far are our 2 best players this year. Murray was our 2nd leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder in the game. For fans who demand effort, that's effort. Anyone wanting to understand why we lost should take a good look at the rebounding stats.
Quit the whining please!
- Thread starter ukcatfaninsc
- Start date
Kentucky did get a more favorable whistle in the first half than what I thought they would. I think the disparity in the second half and OT had more to do with two completely different styles of offense being played. Second half especially in the last 10 minutes Kansas wasn't driving to score, they were driving to foul. Kentucky on the other hand was constantly looking for an open shot on a junk defense and couldn't get very many. Had UK continued driving like they were in the first half the FT disparity probably wouldn't have been as wide as it was. I didn't see a lot of calls that were obvious BS calls like we used to see when playing at places like IU or UNC. I thought it was a really good game and pretty well officiated, the difference is our guys didn't want to be aggressive or get hit and theirs were looking for and creating contact.
The Sargent Carter ref. was horrible. Has been his whole career. The travelling calls have to stop, they are not travels. A block is not a jump ball when the ball is released from the hand. The foul call differential was bad, but typical in the college game. What really cost UK the game was the pathetic floor game of all three Ref's.
Tie game with 9 seconds on the clock, and UK has the ball. We had a chance to win the game in regulation, and failed. The foul disparity had more to do with one team being aggressive and the other being passive. Kentucky was continually a half a step slow on defense in the second half, and played offense like they were scared of contact....hard to win tough games playing like that.
I commend you for your objectivity (and bravery) but your cause was doomed from the beginning.
So in other words every time a team has shot more free throws than another team and the margin is wide, it's unfair?
The fact of the matter is some teams foul more than others. And some teams are better at drawing more fouls than others. Especially since Cal has been here I don't understand how fans cant see this because we have been consistently good at getting to the line since he's been here. We have also be consistently good at not fouling on the other end. It's just different this season.
This is a skill much like rebounding, shooting the ball and creating turnovers.
I did. A lot of it had to do with all our bigs being fouled out. In OT, we had one guy at 6'8" and the rest were 6'6" or less. Does make sense? LOL
Realizing the officials were Mark Whitehead, Pat Adams and Doug Sirmons explains a lot to me, at least. That should be the last thing I say about the home-cookin', but prob'ly not.
I just put in my order for them to do the same thing to KU (46-22 free throw advantage - in our favor) when they come to Rupp next year.
I'm SURE KU and their fans won't mind that kind of treatment. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I just put in my order for them to do the same thing to KU (46-22 free throw advantage - in our favor) when they come to Rupp next year.
I'm SURE KU and their fans won't mind that kind of treatment. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Well, not exactly. In the first half KU was rebounding 35% of their misses. We rebounded 8% of ours. This was in the first half, when we were at full strength.
Actually the beginning of the second half, we started to turn it around but guys started fouling out and we lost whatever we gained.
But it wasn't like they didn't kill us on the glass in the first half as well.
The biggest difference with KU on offense in the second half is they stopped turning the ball over. They shot well the entire game but in the first half had 11 turnovers. They cut that down big time second half.
The biggest different with KU on defense was them switching their defense to contain Ulis.
That's why we lost this game.
Our bigs fouled out because Kansas' bigs beat our bigs all night with more physicality, skills, effort. Getting beat for rebounding position leads to reaching fouls and over the back. Poythress held his own, but our other bigs were dominated. Anyone who watched the game ought to have realized that, but some are still convinced the refs were engaged in some kind of a conspiracy against us. Of course, they don't complain when Kentucky receives home cooking in RA.
Yep, but it is, unfortunately, part of the game and the great teams find a way to win. This probably won't be the last time this team faces this kind of adversity and this game could prove to be helpful in the long run if the lessons are taken to heart. OP is right, whining won't help or change a thing. We've been on the other end before and crucify the opposing fans who whine about the refs. If this team wants to be special then they have to find a way to win...no matter what.
Over on House of Blue, one of the posters, MDay, attended the game and posted this, "The second half was so lopsided from an officiating standpoint, it was almost too obvious. A few KU fans around me even said they were getting a favorable whistle." Go to a couple of other boards. Most of these are not kind to us, but there are threads talking about how bad it was. These are people that had no dog in the fight, but they recognized a hosing, and you as a so-called UK fan, want to call us out for seeing what everyone else did. In your effort to look above making an excuse for the loss, you have totally lost your objectivity.
I really hate to be "that guy" and blame a loss on the referees but, in this case, I have to be "that guy". That game was called so blatantly one sided by the officials it is pathetic. It almost makes you wonder who got to them at halftime.
Yes there have been games at Rupp where UK has had a big advantage in free throw attempts but most of the time it is because the other team actually commits the fouls because they don't have the capability of stopping us from scoring. That wasn't the case last night.
What was called a foul on one end of the court was not called at the other end. Anybody can see that there was no way that Kansas was going to lose that game. The only reason it was as close as it ended up being was that Kansas missed a lot of their free throws. It could've been much worse.
Yes there have been games at Rupp where UK has had a big advantage in free throw attempts but most of the time it is because the other team actually commits the fouls because they don't have the capability of stopping us from scoring. That wasn't the case last night.
What was called a foul on one end of the court was not called at the other end. Anybody can see that there was no way that Kansas was going to lose that game. The only reason it was as close as it ended up being was that Kansas missed a lot of their free throws. It could've been much worse.
It wasn't? KU shot the ball very well. The only thing that stopped them from scoring in the first half was dumb turnovers.
When they cut that down second half, it looked very much like they were playing against a defense that had to foul.
A
anon_q409idbs5m40a
Guest
Anyone that can't see that we were taken is probably an IU or UL fan. Kentucky was totally jobbed last night and it was very obvious.
I don't understand the criticizing of the officials. Do you think that the officials are not supposed to call more fouls on one team than the other.? One fan commented that they give UK the breaks the first half, but called the same fouls differently the 2nd half. What I'm asking is do you think they forgot how to call them the second half?
There are no two fouls committed in a game that are identical. They may look to be the same, but they are not identical. different players, different angles,different location on floor.
Now to address your comment about UL, Duke and KU fans. They were probably laughing at the UK fans for blaming the refs for losing. It happens every time they lose.
It makes no difference who calls the games they will miss some calls, always have, always will. Neither team played its best game last night. Each team tried to give it to the other. Overall I thought UK hung in there really well.
But the officials did not decide the game. JMOH
No, they probably weren't. They were laughing at the fact that UK lost the game and the fouls calls were so lopsided. Saying that UK got hosed, that's what UK gets, now UK fans know how it feels for others fans when their team plays in Rupp and gets hosed etc..
If someone guards Selden, we win, if Tyler doesn't turn over the ball in closing seconds, we have a great chance to win, and I can go on and on. Just do what you have to do to win the game, don't let a biased ref cost ya. They hung 90 on us, anyone expect to win and play no defense?
Your right. But the ref blaming people will just say they scored 90 because the refs called 10000 fouls on us.
-25 free throw differential is absurd, with suspect refs. We had 25 chances to win it and didn't
To an extent, you're right. However those calls last night were so blatant that I doubt even the 2012 team could have overcome them. That's just the honest truth.
Dude, the points you are making are true about every single game ever played. There are always other factors in play as well. But you seem to be telling us we have to ignore obvious one-sided officiating and act like if it was more fair we still would have lost. In a game that went into overtime, that's not the case. We get even a 10% better whistle and we win. And yes, we've gotten a better whistle in some games too. Again, that has nothing to do with what happened last night. And any UK fan that thinks we get the level of homecooking KU gets is smoking something.
Why is it absurd. Is it absurd when UK has games where we had more than a 25 free throw differential in our favor?
How do you know we don't get the same level home cooking?
I'm not saying ignore it. There's going to be questionable calls in every game. Refs are human. When it happens I tend to feel it's more about the refs making honest mistakes, not that they are in fact favoring another team.
Unless Refs are betting on the game, what benefit is it to them to favor a team over the other? Why do the refs care one bit about who wins a regular season matchup between UK and KU.
I watched the game last night and of course I sat there and saw some questionable calls. But the difference is when I see a huge disparity, I'm thinking it has more to do with us not being able to play D without fouling vs the refs. A ref can make bad calls in a game but when the difference is THIS LARGE, something else is going on here.
And the numbers bear this out. We've had issues fouling the entire season. It wasn't just this game. Heck even when we waxed Vandy a week ago, they shot 25 free throws to our 6.
If this was an issue for a game or two I would say maybe you got a point. But when it happens several games in a season all with different refs......I mean every ref can't possibly be against us lol
Kentucky at home against Illinois State shot 46 free throws to Illinois State's 20.
We took 44 vs Baylor in the NCAA Tournament.
43 against UL that year in the reg season.
We might not have had 47 but we've been in the 40s quite a bit
43 against UL that year in the reg season.
We might not have had 47 but we've been in the 40s quite a bit
All you guys are doing who are finding occasions where we shot a lot of FTs is underscoring the terrible state of officiating in college basketball today. If anything, it indicates that the home team gets a ridiculous amount of favoritism in college basketball.
Ironically enough, that is supportive of the idea that the officiating last night was horrible and very unbalanced in Kansas's favor, and I am pretty sure that is not the point you are trying to make.
The bottom line is college basketball officiating sucks. The NFL took major steps to improve their officiating years ago when they made all their refs full time employees, and it is way past time for the NCAA (at least the power conferences) to do the same.
Stepping into AFH or Cameron (or even Rupp) should not mean an automatic "L" for the opposing team simply because the talent differential PLUS the officiating differential will be too much to overcome. Lets get these games called consistently, and lets get back to having the best team win.
(end rant)
Ironically enough, that is supportive of the idea that the officiating last night was horrible and very unbalanced in Kansas's favor, and I am pretty sure that is not the point you are trying to make.
The bottom line is college basketball officiating sucks. The NFL took major steps to improve their officiating years ago when they made all their refs full time employees, and it is way past time for the NCAA (at least the power conferences) to do the same.
Stepping into AFH or Cameron (or even Rupp) should not mean an automatic "L" for the opposing team simply because the talent differential PLUS the officiating differential will be too much to overcome. Lets get these games called consistently, and lets get back to having the best team win.
(end rant)
Why does number of free throws equal bad officiating tho?
drawing fouls and not fouling are skills IMO.
Only reason people mention number of free throws is to point out the bias that is going on here which is when UK has the disparity, no one feels it's because the refs are favoring us. It's only when the fouls are called the other way when people have issues,
Now Refs do call more fouls against the opponent compared to the home team but most studies say home field is worth about 3-4 points. And breaking that down even further, the difference isn't entirely the refs, There could be many factors a home team does better than the visiting team.
Now none of this is to say that the officiating itself isn't bad. I think it's a mess right now. Everything is being called a foul.
I just think they are consistently awful......on both sides. I don't feel they favor one team over another. I think it's equally bad for both teams.
drawing fouls and not fouling are skills IMO.
Only reason people mention number of free throws is to point out the bias that is going on here which is when UK has the disparity, no one feels it's because the refs are favoring us. It's only when the fouls are called the other way when people have issues,
Now Refs do call more fouls against the opponent compared to the home team but most studies say home field is worth about 3-4 points. And breaking that down even further, the difference isn't entirely the refs, There could be many factors a home team does better than the visiting team.
Now none of this is to say that the officiating itself isn't bad. I think it's a mess right now. Everything is being called a foul.
I just think they are consistently awful......on both sides. I don't feel they favor one team over another. I think it's equally bad for both teams.
The notion that home teams are getting more calls now compared to years in the past just isn't accurate at all. The home field advantage has remained constant for a long time now.
If the two teams are roughly equal in talent and style of play, we would expect fouls called and FTs shot to be roughly equal as well.
They almost never are though. The home team consistently, and well outside any random margin for error, shoots more FTs than similarly matched opponents. We have seen it a million times before, and we saw it again last night.
I do also think there are some teams that are perceived as playing the "right way" and get the benefit of the doubt (cough, Duke, cough) on calls, but that is a relatively small part of the much bigger problem of referee homerism in general.
It needs to stop, but until the NCAA changes the way it staffs officials, I don't think it ever will.
They almost never are though. The home team consistently, and well outside any random margin for error, shoots more FTs than similarly matched opponents. We have seen it a million times before, and we saw it again last night.
I do also think there are some teams that are perceived as playing the "right way" and get the benefit of the doubt (cough, Duke, cough) on calls, but that is a relatively small part of the much bigger problem of referee homerism in general.
It needs to stop, but until the NCAA changes the way it staffs officials, I don't think it ever will.
I don't necessarily disagree with that. If that came across in my posts, it was not the point I was trying to make.
Home cooking has been around forever.
It is waaaaaaay past time to get it fixed though.
They reduced the shot clock which was great. But I think the whole freedom of movement change and trying to help out the offense has made them call more fouls.
People loving see scoring going up but no one wants to see a free throw parade.
I agree about that. Something needs to be fixed.
People loving see scoring going up but no one wants to see a free throw parade.
I agree about that. Something needs to be fixed.
I'm not so sure. Obviously style of play factors in greatly. A team that takes a ton of jump shots isn't getting fouled as much as a team that drives the ball to the rack every time.
But in games you see it all the time with other factors of the game. Things differ greatly on a game by game basis. Two equal teams can play and one could shoot 30% while the other shoots 50%. Or maybe one team turns it over 10% of the time and the other 30%. On a game by game basis, anything can happen.
I think overall we are probably equal talent to Kansas. On a neutral court right now they would probably be favored by a point or two tho I feel we are heading in the right direction and they have been struggling. It wouldn't surprise me to see us favored on a neutral court in March.
That being said even when two teams are equally talented, it doesn't mean that teams aren't better in certain areas of the game.
FWIW KU isn't great at getting to the line. They rank 138th in free throw rate. So in that regard it was a bit surprising to see 47 free throw attempts. The real issue is we now rank 248th in defense free throw rate. It's a major weakness. To blame the refs completely for that I think is really missing the bigger picture here. There is zero doubt this is a problem with this team.
Similar threads
