Quit the whining please!
- Thread starter ukcatfaninsc
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I'm late to the thread, as always....but,
I didn't get to watch the game until the next day. I knew the outcome before hand and saw all the whining on here about the free throw disparity, the refs, yada-yada-yada.... So when I watched the game I was expecting some really bad blatant calls..... By the time it was all said and done I had only about 4-5 that I thought were bad calls. The Briscoe T, Willis and (I think) Lee's 4th foul, Poys dunk (shoulda been an AND1, dude grab his arm as he was dunking) and one time Ulis got hit/body bumped pretty good going up for a shot and it was a no call. Were there times when they didn't call fouls on Kansas they should have - hell yeah, but they could've called even more on UK if they had wanted too. So for me those are a wash...
The OT didn't bother me, Briscoe missed 3 FT and we got behind and had to foul...no surprise they shot more FT in OT.
I fully understand not getting calls on the road and don't expect to get a favorable whistle...why would anybody that's watched basketball for more than a season not be able to grasp this? And since when do the refs have to keep the fouls even? The refs didn't "screw" us. They certainly didn't help us though, I am aware of that...
We had multiple chances to WIN barring the "paid refs":
I didn't get to watch the game until the next day. I knew the outcome before hand and saw all the whining on here about the free throw disparity, the refs, yada-yada-yada.... So when I watched the game I was expecting some really bad blatant calls..... By the time it was all said and done I had only about 4-5 that I thought were bad calls. The Briscoe T, Willis and (I think) Lee's 4th foul, Poys dunk (shoulda been an AND1, dude grab his arm as he was dunking) and one time Ulis got hit/body bumped pretty good going up for a shot and it was a no call. Were there times when they didn't call fouls on Kansas they should have - hell yeah, but they could've called even more on UK if they had wanted too. So for me those are a wash...
The OT didn't bother me, Briscoe missed 3 FT and we got behind and had to foul...no surprise they shot more FT in OT.
I fully understand not getting calls on the road and don't expect to get a favorable whistle...why would anybody that's watched basketball for more than a season not be able to grasp this? And since when do the refs have to keep the fouls even? The refs didn't "screw" us. They certainly didn't help us though, I am aware of that...
We had multiple chances to WIN barring the "paid refs":
- UK was 13-22 from the line - 16-22 probably wins us the game.
- We gave up 3 offensive reb to Kansas on one possession during the last min or so, UK gets the rebound, outcome might be different.
- Missed open 3's, make 1 or 2 of those - different outcome
- Don't turn the ball over on the last play in regulation....
I think that's really the point where we differ and I don't think we'll really ever come to an agreement.
I mean I totally get what your saying. Your watching this game and saying ok first half......fouls pretty even. Even into the second half ......fouls pretty even. All of a sudden like 5 mins left in the 2nd half they are parading to the free throw line and this disparity just balloons into a massive difference. How on earth can that be fair.
I totally understand that. That's why what I'm trying to say isn't going to be popular on a UK board. If I come on and say something like well no I really don't think it was unfair people lose their minds because how on earth can that be. How can a game so evenly in fouls all of a sudden be like this.
I think I explained what I felt happened up top. I think it's way more logical than the refs just wanted KU to win. Unless Pat Adams had money on the game I don't see the real benefit in an official in any game calling more fouls on a specific team vs another. There is the home court factor but that alone doesn't result in a 25 free throw disparity.
The truth is more often than not......there IS a disparity. Rarely do you see even amount of fouls or free throws on each side and the reason for that isn't because the refs favor one team over another IMO. My opinion the biggest factor on that is style of play. I already pointed out Ohio St and Michigan defenses as examples. These teams consistently do a good job not fouling. There's so many examples of this. In 06 the second to last Tubby year, we ranked 315th in free throw attempts. Cal comes along and every year except this one (and 2011) we have feasted at the line on offense. And looking back at 2011 and this year a common thread is a lack of inside presence. In 2011 we thought we'd have Enes. This year we thought Skal would be that guy.
Back to the game tho, sometimes things happen in small samples. It really comes down to thinking whether a foul is called on a person is based on the skill of that person drawing fouls (and also the defense ability to not foul) or you feel it's based on what the refs want to call.
Was the 1972 USA Olympic players petty for claiming the refs cost them a gold medal?
This is what I was trying to get through. There's no doubt there's a home court advantage. It's just the extent of it that's being questioned. Maybe KU got the benefit of 3-4 calls if that. Certainly far less than the 25 disparity.
And I'm ok with that btw. I believe every team gets that advantage when playing at home.
I've not once claimed in this thread that it was due to refs wanting KU to win. That being said, I doubt anyone saw the Tim Donaghy thing coming. Not saying I believe college refs bet on games, but it would surprise me in the least if they did.
It wouldn't surprise me. I'd like to think that's not the case but it wouldn't shock me. But even if they did, I can't imagine its but a couple.
Right. But if the refs didn't really want KU to win, then what reason would they really have to be unfair with the calls ya know?
Get caught up by the atmosphere. Everyone says AFH is the most raucous college basketball venue to play at.
The level of contact they were calling on UK... yeah they could of called a foul to the point all our players were fouled out. It took very slight touching to get UK a foul and thats even when Kansas players jumped into UK players to initiate the contact... ..
But for the last 10 minutes of the regulation......... KU was allowed anything they wanted to do without a foul called.
just 1 pt. Poythress getting the and 1..... hit the FT and we win the game... thats all it took. Ulis getting the and 1... and being damn close to 90% ..hitting that FT... we win... or them calling the foul when he rebounded the ball..... KU doesnt get to immediately score..... we get another possession.. we win.
Thats just 3 no calls that helped decide the game.....
But for the last 10 minutes of the regulation......... KU was allowed anything they wanted to do without a foul called.
just 1 pt. Poythress getting the and 1..... hit the FT and we win the game... thats all it took. Ulis getting the and 1... and being damn close to 90% ..hitting that FT... we win... or them calling the foul when he rebounded the ball..... KU doesnt get to immediately score..... we get another possession.. we win.
Thats just 3 no calls that helped decide the game.....
I'm sure that plays "some" role in it. Especially in that KU-OU game on that in bounds play.
But to me if it's an atmosphere thing, that place was rocking the entire game. Then again the majority of the fouls did occur at the end when time was running out and the game was closer.
I could totally see where refs get caught up in the moment of things. But I can see that happening on a few plays.
We got absolutely killed with fouls lol.
Or Skal grabbing that key rebound.
I mean it sucks because they had a real chance to come out of there with a W, not too many teams have even come close to winning there.
Cal was right tho. We just didn't make winning plays down the stretch.
Despite whatever everyone feels about the free throws........it was tied with the ball in Ulis possession. I liked our chances at that point.
To not even get a shot off.......bleh.
Despite whatever everyone feels about the free throws........it was tied with the ball in Ulis possession. I liked our chances at that point.
To not even get a shot off.......bleh.
the 47-22 margin at KU was big but so was the 25-6 at Rupp against Vandy (Vandy had the greater number of attempts) and the 37-17 at Rupp against Wright State this season. The point is that it sometimes happens in both outcomes, wins and losses. Unfortunately, UK was on the wrong side of the equation this past weekend but the CATS played with heart and will only grow from that game. I imagine UT gets manhandled tonight.
Bro - you are talking to a human brick wall on this. I agree with what you are saying and then some. Truth is - the game has gotten so physical that a ref can call most anything at anytime - and that is ruining the game. I'm sure calls were missed on both sides. Let me emphasize again - it's not just all the free throws - it's also fouling out our bigs, four of them, at the most crucial time of the game. How many games have we, the great fouling wildcats, fouled out 4 bigs in the same game this season? Did/do refs 100% always predetermine the outcome they want to see in a game? IDK, but doubtful. Can refs and calls greatly influence the outcome and flow of the game - absolutely! Trend it a certain way - absolutely. Truth on this game - if KU would have made the front end of several 1 and 1's in the second half - hell they were in double bonus 10 minutes into the half - but if they'd have made the front ends - they'd have had a lead and even more fta's, they didn't - so if one wants the game to remain close - they can make calls to at least create that possibility of keeping the game close. Ref's can definitely put a trend on a game. Fouling out 4 bigs are as much a problem for me as the free throw disparity. Hugely influenced the game - esp the OT. One cannot look at stats in a vacuum, out of context, dismiss variables they dislike - enter variables they assume, and come out with an objective result. Refs didn't cost the game, lots of missed opportunities as previously mentioned. Refs influenced the game - yes and that's what the foul count, fta's and fouled out bigs scream. It's like letting a kid shoot from the free throw line, misses, move him 2 feet closer, misses again, etc. until he gets to shoot a lay-up. No the coach didn't shoot the shot, but he sure made it easier for the kid to make it. They are nuances, influences and trends... that create possibility for some and limit others. Sadly this is collegiate officiating. So - yes - in this game I believe the refs influenced the game greatly, created opportunity for a result. I'm sure it's happened for us and against us. I can tell you that night the refs didn't need security to walk them to their cars to leave the facility... unless they were concerned about too many slaps on the back and blistered hands from high 5's.
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I would like to suggest to all that are expressing thoughts on how the game was called, go to Wildcat Nation. There is a gentleman over there that rates refs and he has broken down the game. Very interesting, see what a professional thinks.
That was a darn good write up.
Can we link another board? If not... then mods can delete this post... but here is the link
http://wildcatnation.vbulletin.net/...all/60512-kentucky-vs-kansas-officials-report
Can we link another board? If not... then mods can delete this post... but here is the link
http://wildcatnation.vbulletin.net/...all/60512-kentucky-vs-kansas-officials-report
I like that picture of the KU player elbowing Ulis in the head. That was actually called, but Bilas was going on and about how it wasn't a foul. Bilas is having a terrible year since he decided to shill for UNCheat. Also, a couple of people actually said that the picture didn't necessarily show a foul. Ulis could have run into this elbow. You just have to laugh.
That guy gets alot of credit.
I remember when I used to rewatch games to chart defensive performances..........it's very time consuming to sit down and do what he did.
I remember when I used to rewatch games to chart defensive performances..........it's very time consuming to sit down and do what he did.
All of those fouls must have just been a coincidence, maybe all of our bigs shouldn't have fouled out
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Drunk, Stoned??? is that all you got.![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
Don't mind @kybassfan, he's one of those UL and UK fans. Guy is confused
He is a retired referee who graded refs professionally, I don't know if he still does or not. This game and the UL game are the only two that I have seen this year.
He does a good job, he used to do all of the games but he has really cut back. Sometimes he sees it like UK fans do and sometimes the blue tinted glasses distort our vision
In his grading....... Ku got away with three times more...
Kansas 12
UK 4
and that didnt take into consideration where he said the KU player was continuously palming the ball all game.
Kansas 12
UK 4
and that didnt take into consideration where he said the KU player was continuously palming the ball all game.
It sure would have been a big difference if all of those missed shots didn't turn into free throws and our bigs didn't foul out. Hard for me to believe they are that one way without trying to be.
I am going to say this just because I want to be honest.... Poythress gets away with 1 or 2 walks every single game. .... i just hope he gets that under control so it doesnt get called at a bad time in the tournament
I don't know off hand but I have to imagine he leads our team in travels. I feel like he gets called for them at least once a game and then as you said there's some he doesn't get called for.
He has a terrible habit of taking a step before he gets ready to pass and before he knows if the pass is something he really wants to do, which leads to him not passing at times, but his momentum is going in the direction of the step and he has to try and stop himself, or pass it even though it's not wise. I don't know why he still does this, but it's something he doesn't seem to ever learn from.
He's trying to think too much. Notice his best games are when he just gets the ball and goes.... reacts without thinking.
Indecisive. I think Alex is great athlete but I wonder about his basketball IQ from time to time
Wow this thread is still on the first page?
Anybody that doesn't think referees can cost a team a game have only played tag and hide and seek.
Anybody that doesn't think referees can cost a team a game have only played tag and hide and seek.
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