Queen James is still whining...
- Thread starter kev69
- Start date
Because it's easily 89% of why people hate him.
Everyone loved the guy the day of the decision, and when 29 teams didn't get Lebron, many of the fans bitched and moaned and he became one of the most hated players in the league.
I knew some stickler would try and call me out for that. Lol I don't really count the wizards years since he retired for a couple years, but if people want to include them that's fine with me.
Some on here are simply blinded by hate (or jealousy). MJ is the GOAT but Lebron is nipping at his heels.
Jordan was fortunate to get some good finals matchups. This years CAVS team would beat The Trailblazers, the Suns, The Jazz twice, the Supersonics, and probably the aging Lakers. I can easily see Lebron going 6-0 in finals just like Jordan did.
Could Jordan have beat the Spurs with Lebrons Cleveland Cast? Could he have beat this years Warriors? Hmmmmm
Jordan was fortunate to get some good finals matchups. This years CAVS team would beat The Trailblazers, the Suns, The Jazz twice, the Supersonics, and probably the aging Lakers. I can easily see Lebron going 6-0 in finals just like Jordan did.
Could Jordan have beat the Spurs with Lebrons Cleveland Cast? Could he have beat this years Warriors? Hmmmmm
I see there's still a bunch if unnecessary hate going on...players like him don't come around often and instead of enjoy ppl cry bc it ruins their childhood dreams cuddling their teddy bear looking at their mj poster. Btw, Jodan never won anything until pippen showed up, he never could beat the pistons.
It just took two league mvps, a dpoy candidate, 4 players avg 20 a game, the two best 3 point shooters in league history, the best free throw shooter in league history, numerous Olympic medalists and all stars to beat a 32 year old lebron. The guy is good, enjoy it, they don't come around often.
But tell me how it makes you feel better bc it took LeBron more games to score more points, even though he has less attempts or or whatever else.
It just took two league mvps, a dpoy candidate, 4 players avg 20 a game, the two best 3 point shooters in league history, the best free throw shooter in league history, numerous Olympic medalists and all stars to beat a 32 year old lebron. The guy is good, enjoy it, they don't come around often.
But tell me how it makes you feel better bc it took LeBron more games to score more points, even though he has less attempts or or whatever else.
i don't hate lebron, I just think people get carried away trying to call him the goat. If you're just overwhelmingly that great, you should have been able to will a couple of those teams to a win, imo. The mavs loss just stands out too tall for me. Sure dirk was playing great, but most teams are playing great if they make the finals. No excuse for losing there when you had homecourt and were considered the overwhelming favorite.
Did he not make his own superteam "The Miami Heat" to compete against the super team known as the "Boston Celtics"?
30 years from now, these same haters will be telling their grandchildren that they witnessed greatness.
When playing days are over, stats & rings are all that matter. Lebron's numbers are going to be ungodly!
When playing days are over, stats & rings are all that matter. Lebron's numbers are going to be ungodly!
![[eyeroll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/rolleye/rolleye0011.r191677.gif "Eye roll [eyeroll]")
Because the GOAT isn't some strictly defined label. It means you're the greatest, sure.. but at what?
Personally, I don't care for team accolades. Titles are not an individual achievement no matter how good MJ and Lebron are. I don't think MJ's 6 titles necessary make him better than Lebron, who has 3. I also don't think Lebron, if he were to ever get 7 titles, automatically becomes the GOAT either.
For me the GOAT is what I see in the player. If I took all candidate and put them on the same team, the same supporting cast around each one, who is better? Who wins one on one?
And to be honest, I don't have an answer. Because even in that scenario, it still isn't perfect. Different abilities, different eras. I think Jordan is has a better mentality and is a finesse player.. but I also think Lebron is a physical specimen who is a greater all-around player.
I just believe it's much closer than you think. Whoever is better, it isn't by much.
hold up i need names of these 26 hall of famersI saw this today, pretty interesting..
So were Oscar Robertsons, Hakeem's, & others. I think LeBron is the greatest talent we've seen yet to play basketball but that doesn't make him the GOAT, just the greatest of this era. Players now are more athletic and skilled than they've ever been. But to be in the GOAT conversation you have to do all the stat stuffing plus win more championships than you've lost.
I hate Mj. I hate UNC players and hate everything about Chicago itself. All of it can burn to ash.
Having said that, Jordan will not be removed from the top of the Mountain by Lebron. He hasnt won on that level and the conversation ends there.
If you polled the nation Jordan is still considered goat, and Lebron would be top 5. Just the way it is.
Having said that, Jordan will not be removed from the top of the Mountain by Lebron. He hasnt won on that level and the conversation ends there.
If you polled the nation Jordan is still considered goat, and Lebron would be top 5. Just the way it is.
I started to go through them and I'm like.. wait a second.. I'm getting like half that.
Maybe some made it to troll Cav/ Lebron fans?
The question is: If you're starting an NBA team from scratch, who do you select first, before LBJ ? If it's Durant, O.K. A recent contender for best player in the league. And after Durant ??? LeBron has been the best player in the league for so long that it's really silly to suggest otherwise. I don't have anything to say about his "whining" -- if, in fact, he has been whining. But that has nothing to do with his position as the best player in the league over the last several years.
It's an overall combination of stats, titles, special skills which create separation among players and intangibles like leadership, attitude and drive. Once you tally all that up, even though some of it is subjective, Jordan is and likely will always be GOAT. As Mojo said, that debate is over.
Ahh trips TO the finals...
So I forgot to add KG, Pierce, Shuttlesworth... on top of Dirk, Duncan, Westbrook, Durant, Curry, Ginobli, Parker, Rondo (?), Rose (?).. waaaay off from 26 though.. and could Jordan really have only played 9 HOF on the way to his 6 finals?
I know you can't include any of the Rockets, like Hakeem, Drexler.
So I forgot to add KG, Pierce, Shuttlesworth... on top of Dirk, Duncan, Westbrook, Durant, Curry, Ginobli, Parker, Rondo (?), Rose (?).. waaaay off from 26 though.. and could Jordan really have only played 9 HOF on the way to his 6 finals?
I know you can't include any of the Rockets, like Hakeem, Drexler.
We do know Jordan beat 20 teams who won 50+ games to go to 6 Finals and LeBron has beat 11 to get to his. Those HOF'ers must have crappy teams or way past their primes.
Let's just be honest about this whole thing, whoever you think is the GOAT, is simply personal preference. And it is crazy to have this type of conversation right now anyway, as LeBron's career isn't over yet. People tend to make Jordan better than he actually was, and it's revisionist history that does it. Jordan's first title was great, beating the great pistons team, then Magic and the Lakers. But then the Pistons disbanded, Bird was already retired, and Magic retired. The next 5 titles were essentially gift wrapped for Jordan. Hate LeBron all you want, but exactly how many games did the Cavs win the season before and the season after LeBron? Because the Bulls were 2nd in the east the year Jordan retired the first time.
I think the biggest difference between the two is that Jordan played College basketball and LeBron didn't. That allowed Jordan to learn how to win and how to crave winning. LeBron didn't get that. Kobe was the same way. He needed a guy who knew how to win to show him, and he got that with Shaq. LeBron got a head start on his career, but Jordan was better prepared for his.
I think the biggest difference between the two is that Jordan played College basketball and LeBron didn't. That allowed Jordan to learn how to win and how to crave winning. LeBron didn't get that. Kobe was the same way. He needed a guy who knew how to win to show him, and he got that with Shaq. LeBron got a head start on his career, but Jordan was better prepared for his.
He has never played on a team like GS...
We'll see if he can move some pieces around and get a couple dudes to cleveland...paul george, carmelo, gordon heyward, jj reddick, ...needs to give all of them a call and say "hey let's make a run at it..."...now that would be fun...
maybe holler at Boogie next time he's on the market, or have Dan make a trade for him...
We'll see if he can move some pieces around and get a couple dudes to cleveland...paul george, carmelo, gordon heyward, jj reddick, ...needs to give all of them a call and say "hey let's make a run at it..."...now that would be fun...
maybe holler at Boogie next time he's on the market, or have Dan make a trade for him...
I think they are counting players twice.
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili from 07
Dirk, Kidd 11
Durant, Westbrook, Harden 12
Leonard 13
No new players from 14 I don't think
Curry in 15
No new players from 16 or 17
10 for lebron
Magic, Worthy 91
Drexler 92
Barkley 93
Payton 96 kemp not there yet but could be
Stockton , Malone 97
No new players for 98
7 for Jordan.
Missing anybody? Feel like Kevin Johnson was a HoF but Google said no.
I too would like to see a list of these HOF players. I would also like to see how many HOF players LBJ played against in the Eastern Conference playoffs during his runs to the finals.
As far as the GOAT debate. LeBron is with doubt one of the greatest of all-time. At worst he's going to end up in the top 3 when he's finished playing. Not sure how anyone can say he's not an all-time great.
mostly jordan hall of famers he beat are in the east such as ewing, mourining, miller, hardaway etc
I wasn't only speaking about you in my post but all of the posts above that bash Lebron. Most seem to not like him, so they try and dismiss his greatness. A lot of them argue that Lebron whines all the time but yet they either forget, ignore, or are too young to know that MJ whined more than any player in the game. As did many of the greatest players of all time. Players of that caliber are so competitive that they're going to use any and all advantages they can, including using the officials to help them win.
I'm not sure what you mean by he lacks the killer instinct. Have you not seen his stats during some of his biggest games? Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Last edited:
This is nonsense. Preferential treatment? Do you not remember the physicality played against Jordan? Pistons beat the piss out of him. This wasn't the era of breathing on stars getting whistles.
Lebron has played in an absolute joke conference. The East has been atrocious for years.
And you want to talk circumstances? Jordan won six titles with no star center or star point guard.
You're leaving out a few factors.
Jordan didn't enter the league until after his junior year of college. Lebron went straight to the pros.
The East has been horrendous during Lebron's time. The Celtics were done after 2010/2011. He faced a Bulls team who did nothing.
Jordan was a killer. Lebron isn't. He's a baby. He's top 5-10 but no way is he top three in my book. I would take both Jordan and Magic over him not to mention bigs like Wilt and Kareem.
I saw this today, pretty interesting..
When were these people put in the HOF considering they're still playing? I also look at this stat and it doesn't provide proper context like stages of their careers, the roles they had at the time, etc. No doubt this guy is making Jason Kidd in 2011 out like some beast.
It also doesn't help that Jordan faced many beasts/HOFers in the east before he got to the finals. Can Lebron say the same?
Just for kicks, let's take a stab at who is being counted for this number. I'm guessing the Spurs and Warriors players are being counted multiple times as if they're different players?
2007-Duncan, Parker, Manu
2011- Nowitzki, Kidd
2012- Durant, Westbrook. Harden
2013- Kawhai only new Spurs player
2015- Curry, Klay, is Greene really a HOFer?
Anyone I'm forgetting? In Lebron's eight trips, he has played the Spurs and Warriors three times each and the Thunder once and the Mavs once. This also ignores that Lebron himself has been on a super team for all but one of these trips.
Last edited:
Have you seen CLE's record with LeBron out? They'd never make the playoffs. It's somewhere around 4-23 as of Feb for the highest payroll in the league.
Jordan was the draw, but Kareem was money at the end of games. You knew he was getting it and you couldn't do anything about it. But different eras and different positions make it hard to compare.
Just something to consider while we debate supoorting casts of MJ and LBJ... the year Jordan retired, thr Bulls still went to the playoffs. When LBJ left Cleveland, the Cavs went from the ECFs to either the worst or second worst team in the league. I have never likes the comparison though because LBJ plays way more like Magic than MJ. LBJ is the most talented all around player that's ever walked the Earth, IMO, but doesn't mean he's the GOAT.
