I'll add MJ is an asshole to that list as well
Queen James is still whining...
- Thread starter kev69
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when was iggy a superstar? I guess lebron had former superstars deron Williams, Richard Jefferson and jr smith so is 3 all stars + 3 more former superstars not enough?
Some of you guys need to concede the argument. You've lost. Mojocat has for years argued - convincingly and well, I might add - that Tom Brady is overrated. Great, but overrated. He plays for the best coach, the best franchise, always has a good defense. He just has to do his job. Mostly, counting rings in a sport where the QB is involved in 45% of the plays is a stupid way to assess "the greatest."
You know what? No one cares. That train left a long time ago. The debate is settled. I can either concede and give up, or continue arguing and sound like a deranged conspiracy theorist.
Michael Jordan is by consensus the greatest basketball player ever. If you disagree, it doesn't matter. That debate is over.
LeBron James is by consensus a top 5 player, more likely top 3, of all time. And time to move up that ranking. If you disagree, it doesn't matter. That debate is over.
You know what? No one cares. That train left a long time ago. The debate is settled. I can either concede and give up, or continue arguing and sound like a deranged conspiracy theorist.
Michael Jordan is by consensus the greatest basketball player ever. If you disagree, it doesn't matter. That debate is over.
LeBron James is by consensus a top 5 player, more likely top 3, of all time. And time to move up that ranking. If you disagree, it doesn't matter. That debate is over.
You can never end that debate. It will go on long until the last 2 persons that saw Jordan and LeBron are gone. At one time, sports guys like us wasted the offseason with Ruth/Mantle or Sid Luckman vs Sammy Baugh. Those differences have yet to be settled.
For the record and in my humblest opinion:
LeBron James GOAT
Babe Ruth GOAT
Erik Dickerson GOAT
Wayne Gretzky GOAT
You're kind of overrating Iggy there. He has made only one all-star game his whole career. He never averaged over 20pts/gm in any season. Actually Deron Williams has 2 more all-star game appearances than Iggy and I wouldn't consider him anything special for Cleveland. Iggy is a good bench player but nothing more.
I don't see how anyone can stand LeBron or even defend the guy. He's a baby and thinks his shit don't stink. He is nowhere near in the conversation as goat. Top 10 ? Yes but not top 5
Had Jordan not retired the first two times, he may have had 2-3 more rings. Lebron is a great player, but not Jordan great. I don't need to bash Lebron for that. The opposite is more true, many of you guys talk him up, ignoring some glaring issues with him, because you think he is the GOAT. He isn't and never will be.
Jordan might be in the top 10? Talk about going out on a limb.
Jordan of course gets credit for his 6 wins in 6 Finals appearances, but he also has to take the 3 losing seasons (to LeBron's 1) and 3 first round playoff losses (to LeBron's zero), considering only his Bulls days, so same number of seasons. Took Jordan until his age 24 to have a winning season. LeBron did it at 20. I think Jordan is GOAT but Lebron is top ~3. I do think LeBron has suffered from not having great coaching, not so much in his play but in his teams' success.
That's hilarious. The mavs shot like 70% for a entire game in that series and I think they went a whole quarter and didn't even have a shot graze the rim as it splashed through.
Dirk was so unreal that year in the playoffs. They lost the first two games and then they started clicking again and steam rolled it home. The mavs that year after game two could've beat showtime lakers at that point. They were so fun to watch too. Dirk would be covered with zero space and hop on one leg and watch the net rip.
To answer you, yeah the mavs were burning it up that one season. I am not a Lebron fan but don't fault him there, mavs were something else imo.
But with that said. Lebron is a cry baby. He played on two different super teams and leaves when things get tough for his team. Suck it. He will leave the cavs just watch
Lebron doesn't possess one ounce of fire and heart that Michael Jordan put into his basketball greatness. Lebron is great, but MJ is GOAT.
u bringing in facts and i agree. we can point out things jordan done and lebron has not. it just who's opinion who's better i dont think its a you wrong or who's right debate.
Make excuses for the mavs beating lebron all you want but none of it matters. That mavericks team was no all time great team. The heat were favored heavily and had home court advantage and they couldn't even push it to 7. If you're the goat or even wanna be in consideration for it, you win that series. You know how many excuses Jordan has? None. Because when he made it to the the end he closed out. And don't act like he took on cupcakes, he beat one of the best duos ever, twice. He beat magic and the lakers, Barkley, etc.
Delete your account if you think Lebron isn't "near" Goat status. You want to put MJ over him? Even Kobe? Fine. But he's easily 3rd for a laundry list of reasons.
Don't be dumb. Don't be upset that his "decision" wasn't to go to your team and you're forever jaded because of it.
Don't be dumb. Don't be upset that his "decision" wasn't to go to your team and you're forever jaded because of it.
He can't win with some of you. Your mind was made up 15 years ago. If he's mad, he's weak. If he's not, he doesn't care. Either way, it's somehow the opposite of what Jordan did or would have done and inferior.
You've spent a decade and a half nit picking the most complete player of all time to defend a poster on your wall. As a fan of the game, that's sad.
And it's almost always some emotionally charged reason why. Some non quantifiable, subjective measure is what not only makes this debate over but every debate ever over. Some guy who hasn't been born yet will never be as good as MJ either. Not to you.
You've spent a decade and a half nit picking the most complete player of all time to defend a poster on your wall. As a fan of the game, that's sad.
And it's almost always some emotionally charged reason why. Some non quantifiable, subjective measure is what not only makes this debate over but every debate ever over. Some guy who hasn't been born yet will never be as good as MJ either. Not to you.
What about when he didn't make it to the end? Was he not a competitor? Not a killer? Not a leader? Not a closer? Not clutch? Didn't make his teammates better?
I just don't understand why a guy who refused to lose wouldn't use those super powers in the first few rounds of the playoffs.
The simple fact you said "and never will be" proves my point.
How was Jordan that much better? and dont say titles because if Titles are what matters then the GOAT is Russell
I love how lebron fans claim his detractors are being emotional and then give petty reasons why we're wrong and never dispute the facts. I'm not an mj fan, never was and never will be. Also not mad about where lebron goes. He can play a year for every team In the league for all I care, he's still not the goat or anywhere close.
Any objective basketball mind puts him in the 2-5 range. That's pretty close.
not really. To be close you can't have such a concrete case against you. Yes he's still a great player and top 10 for sure, but due to his constant failures to close out he can't be considered the goat. If he always had a weak cast I might even agree, but he has basically been hand picking his teams his entire career. you can't put up the numbers he does, hand pick your coaches and teammates and then claim you didn't have enough to compete.
I bash him because he is a bitch and the East is a joke.
I also hate Cleveland and Ohio for that matter.
lmao what's your obsession with thinking I'm mad lebron didn't play for my team? Please inform me which team I'm a fan of and let me know when lebron spurned us since you seem to know so much about me.
You're creating your own criteria but I guess that's what everyone does. I could say "you can't be the goat and lose in the first round of the playoffs"... well MJ did that three times. It's all in perspective.
I saw this today, pretty interesting..
I'm not sure all of those ballots have been cast yet.
No question Lebron is top 10. Little question to me that he's top 5. You can make a case for Lebron being the greatest. Really though, people can also make cases for Russel, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Kobe, Oscar, and maybe a couple others. Some cases will be more convincing than others. But each case will have at least some merit.
Is it cut & dry, end of story? No. But in my mind, the title of greatest goes to MJ every time for too many reasons.
I rooted against Jordan at the time. Don't know him personally but he may well be an asshole. I wouldn't doubt it. But his results just left me in awe, as much as it frustrated me. Lebron doesn't do that as much. And crap like this; saying he never played for a "super team" (the fact that he DID, notwithstanding); is making excuses. There should be no reason for someone in the GOAT discussion to do that.
Is it cut & dry, end of story? No. But in my mind, the title of greatest goes to MJ every time for too many reasons.
I rooted against Jordan at the time. Don't know him personally but he may well be an asshole. I wouldn't doubt it. But his results just left me in awe, as much as it frustrated me. Lebron doesn't do that as much. And crap like this; saying he never played for a "super team" (the fact that he DID, notwithstanding); is making excuses. There should be no reason for someone in the GOAT discussion to do that.
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lebron also missed the playoffs altogether his first two seasons, something Jordan never did.
Williams and Richardson are pushing 40.
thats what happens when you're happy to leave the s**t hole that is Cleveland
Definitely not. Switch Jordan and Lebron and Jordan has zero titles and Lebron has 8 or 9.
