POLL: Is there a God ??

[Ron Mehico]

No problem. I enjoy responding to those, like yourself, who enjoy having a serious conversation, and don't resort to bashing one's faith or using laughing emojis in an attempt to belittle one's post repeatedly. It is a breath of fresh air.

And as a follow up to your thought above, genuine Christians know that nobody's life is pointless. The Bible is clear on two things repeatedly...we are all made in God's image, and we are all sinners in need of a Savior.

If only one non believer comes to a saving faith in Christ in this thread, we will rejoice and be glad.

I do feel though, and I could be wrong, that your viewpoint(and most of the Christian’s in this thread) is that an atheist (I’m not one BTW I just sometimes enjoy talking about these things) in general lives a shallow rather pointless life, doesn’t have the true moral compass as someone that believes, and ultimately goes to hell if they don’t accept salvation. I think those are typically pretty agreed upon tenants. It’s just an interesting viewpoint imo and sometimes I feel those with faith dance around it and don’t really admit it, for fear of sounding too harsh I suppose. It’s been argued on this page about a meaningless existence without faith (and I find it hard to find great meaning for a life that leads to hell tbh) and morals coming from the Bible, but it seems people have trouble just coming out and saying it.

 

[Catemus]

I do feel though, and I could be wrong, that your viewpoint(and most of the Christian’s in this thread) is that an atheist (I’m not one BTW I just sometimes enjoy talking about these things) in general lives a shallow rather pointless life, doesn’t have the true moral compass as someone that believes, and ultimately goes to hell if they don’t accept salvation. I think those are typically pretty agreed upon tenants. It’s just an interesting viewpoint imo and sometimes I feel those with faith dance around it and don’t really admit it, for fear of sounding too harsh I suppose. It’s been argued on this page about a meaningless existence without faith (and I find it hard to find great meaning for a life that leads to hell tbh) and morals coming from the Bible, but it seems people have trouble just coming out and saying it.

It’s been argued on this page about a meaningless existence without faith (and I find it hard to find great meaning for a life that leads to hell tbh) and morals coming from the Bible, but it seems people have trouble just coming out and saying it.

Perhaps because it sounds arrogant, foolish and parochial when they do so.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Perhaps because it sounds arrogant, foolish and parochial when they do so.

It’s almost impossible not to sound like an a*shole on either side imo

Atheist: you’re a stupid idiot that would be lost without an instruction manual on how to function like an adult

Christian: You live a meaningless selfish life and are going to burn in hell

Hard not to offend either side

 

[Catemus]

It’s almost impossible not to sound like an a*shole on either side imo

Atheist: you’re a stupid idiot that would be lost without an instruction manual on how to function like an adult

Christian: You live a meaningless selfish life and are going to burn in hell

Hard not to offend either side

What both “sides” don’t seem to recognize is that the majority of people are disinterested in the argument and, like most Christians, just want to live their lives as they see fit without interference from others.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So, no questions about your intentions are allowed? I’ll regard that as a deflection.



Since you don’t allow questions, I’ll just follow your example of making assertions. I will correct your statement to: “As an evangelical Christian, it is my job to give a defense of the faith.”

Most Christians don’t agree with this provocative reasoning. They see their faith as something that is personal and private, a code to live by and to sort out the complexities of the world. They don’t see a challenge around every corner or from every person who views life differently to them.

Rather, they accept that there are many faiths and that, to be respected for their beliefs, they are obligated to respect others’ beliefs.

My man...this is a thread about the existence of God. This is not a political thread. One already exists. And by the way, this thread was started by an atheist, not a believer.

How would your prefer I respond in this thread when atheists refer to God as a genocidal maniac? How should I as a Christian respond to that in a thread titled Does God exist? Yes, I will defend my faith dude. You seem to have no problem with atheists defending their viewpoints, right? So why can't I do the same?

Where have I ever said anywhere in this thread that I don't respect somebody else's beliefs or faith? Point it out and quote it.

Lastly, if a Christian does not evangelize and defend their faith, they are not following the core tenet of Chrisitianity. Read the great commission in Ch 28 of the book of Matthew before Jesus ascended to heaven, his last charge to believers was to spread the Gospel (otherwise known as evangelize) to all nations. That is precisely what we are called to do. That doesn't mean we are disrespecting other ppl by doing that. If Christians are keeping their faith private and personal, as you claim they should do, they are 100% rejecting what Jesus has commanded us to do.

I follow Christ.

 

[Catemus]

My man...this is a thread about the existence of God. This is not a political thread. One already exists. And by the way, this thread was started by an atheist, not a believer.

How would your prefer I respond in this thread when atheists refer to God as a genocidal maniac? How should I as a Christian respond to that in a thread titled Does God exist? Yes, I will defend my faith dude. You seem to have no problem with atheists defending their viewpoints, right? So why can't I do the same?

Where have I ever said anywhere in this thread that I don't respect somebody else's beliefs or faith? Point it out and quote it.

Lastly, if a Christian does not evangelize and defend their faith, they are not following the core tenet of Chrisitianity. Read the great commission in Ch 28 of the book of Matthew before Jesus ascended to heaven, his last charge to believers was to spread the Gospel (otherwise known as evangelize) to all nations. That is precisely what we are called to do. That doesn't mean we are disrespecting other ppl by doing that. If Christians are keeping their faith private and personal, as you claim they should do, they are 100% rejecting what Jesus has commanded us to do.

I follow Christ.

You have the right to believe anything you want and to practice your religion unless it interferes with the civil rights of someone else. You shouldn’t bristle when you’re challenged. It makes for an awkward discussion.

Your postings have a paranoid feel that emotes an insecurity that seems to be typical of evangelists. You, and they, don’t seem at all content with your lives. It could be because of the negativity you experience when you evangelize. There’s a similar syndrome among therapists, psychiatrists, doctors and nurses. Whenever someone consistently experiences negativity, they naturally tend to absorb some of it, often to the point of personal problems.

Finally, you seem to have a mild obsession with atheism and atheists. You would benefit, I think, from knowing that atheism is very different to antitheism. The former is simply to be without religion. The latter is to be antithetical to religion of all types.

Peace be with you in all you do.

 

[SDC888]

 

[KAB Cats]

So, if a community comes together and says abortion is a moral evil, you will agree? And if another community decides abortion is good, you will also agree? Or, would you have a third opinion as to whether abortion is good or bad?

Without an objective moral absolute, what is good and what is bad is an opinion. Sure, groups of people can come together and compromise or agree on the subject, but as the majority changes their collective opinion, what was good becomes bad and what was bad becomes good.

When morality is an opinion, behavior can be legislated, but cannot be called wrong, because it is just a matter of opinion. We may legislate murder as illegal, but who are we to say it is truly morally wrong? Just the majority?

Whether Hitler was doing good or evil is likewise just opinion. Whether life is precious also just becomes an opinion. We have plenty of moral opinions, just no moral truths.

The only way someone can claim that there are absolutes in morality is to avoid the complexities of reality.

 

[mcnicKY91]

You have the right to believe anything you want and to practice your religion unless it interferes with the civil rights of someone else. You shouldn’t bristle when you’re challenged. It makes for an awkward discussion.

Your postings have a paranoid feel that emotes an insecurity that seems to be typical of evangelists. You, and they, don’t seem at all content with your lives. It could be because of the negativity you experience when you evangelize. There’s a similar syndrome among therapists, psychiatrists, doctors and nurses. Whenever someone consistently experiences negativity, they naturally tend to absorb some of it, often to the point of personal problems.

Finally, you seem to have a mild obsession with atheism and atheists. You would benefit, I think, from knowing that atheism is very different to antitheism. The former is simply to be without religion. The latter is to be antithetical to religion of all types.

Peace be with you in all you do.

Just so we are clear, you call me paranoid, insecure, not content, and imply I have some type of syndrome common among many professionals....all because I defend my Chrisitan faith? And then follow it up by saying "peace to you?"

If I were you, I would go back to the beginning of this thread, and read through what has been said. If I have a mild obsession with atheists because I defend my faith, what obsession do the atheists in this thread have who constantly make fun of Christianity and what we believe?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

as if Christianity invented the idea of not killing each other or not stealing from each other

It’s a historical fact. It should not be threatening to you.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

There may be more recent studies and polling data than the links below, but it appears that atheists are far less likely to be incarcerated for crimes than others. I've seen videos discussing this phenomenon, too. I do not know how accurate these links are and what the data might conclusively say or suggest about the morality of atheists ...

Are Prisoners Less Likely To Be Atheists?

Dear Mona, I recently read an article that said most of the prison population is religious while there are very few atheists in prison. Please tell if this is t…

fivethirtyeight.com

In 2021, atheists made up only 0.1% of the federal prison population

Atheists and Humanists are all-but-absent in federal prison, according to new data obtained exclusively by OnlySky

onlysky.media

Albeit from THE FRIENDLY ATHEIST, you might find this video interesting ...

View embedded media

A fair and obvious question is how many atheists enter prison and convert during their incarceration. I’ve tried to find some information on this conversion rate, but have been unsuccessful.

Lastly, here is a recent article that includes point #7 that discusses the issue of morality, as relates to believers and non-believers.

8 facts about atheists

Around six-in-ten U.S. atheists are men (64%). And seven-in-ten are ages 49 or younger, compared with about half of U.S. adults overall (52%).

www.pewresearch.org

Interesting theory. Jail seems to be the place where many find Jesus for the first time.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So, no questions about your intentions are allowed? I’ll regard that as a deflection.



Since you don’t allow questions, I’ll just follow your example of making assertions. I will correct your statement to: “As an evangelical Christian, it is my job to give a defense of the faith.”

Most Christians don’t agree with this provocative reasoning. They see their faith as something that is personal and private, a code to live by and to sort out the complexities of the world. They don’t see a challenge around every corner or from every person who views life differently to them.

Rather, they accept that there are many faiths and that, to be respected for their beliefs, they are obligated to respect others’ beliefs.

“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NIV

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The only way someone can claim that there are absolutes in morality is to avoid the complexities of reality.

If there is a Holy God who defines what is good and what is bad, your and my opinions means nothing.

 

[megablue]

Interesting theory. Jail seems to be the place where many find Jesus for the first time.

Yes. It makes sense to me that, while in jail, inmates would turn to religion and belief in God. Chaplains are available to help them in their conversions.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yes. It makes sense to me that, while in jail, inmates would turn to religion and belief in God. Chaplains are available to help them in their conversions.

Maybe Chaplains. Maybe people involved with prison ministries. Often, other inmates.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

36 A Pharisee invited Jesus to have dinner with him. So Jesus went to the Pharisee's home and got ready to eat.[a]

37 When a sinful woman in that town found out that Jesus was there, she bought an expensive bottle of perfume. 38 Then she came and stood behind Jesus. She cried and started washing his feet with her tears and drying them with her hair. The woman kissed his feet and poured the perfume on them.

39 The Pharisee who had invited Jesus saw this and said to himself, “If this man really were a prophet, he would know what kind of woman is touching him! He would know that she is a sinner.”

40 Jesus said to the Pharisee, “Simon, I have something to say to you.”

“Teacher, what is it?” Simon replied.

41 Jesus told him, “Two people were in debt to a moneylender. One of them owed him 500 silver coins, and the other owed him 50. 42 Since neither of them could pay him back, the moneylender said that they didn't have to pay him anything. Which one of them will like him more?”

43 Simon answered, “I suppose it would be the one who had owed more and didn't have to pay it back.”

“You are right,” Jesus said.

44 He turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Have you noticed this woman? When I came into your home, you didn't give me any water so I could wash my feet. But she has washed my feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. 45 You didn't greet me with a kiss, but from the time I came in, she has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You didn't even pour olive oil on my head, but she has poured expensive perfume on my feet. 47 So I tell you that all her sins are forgiven, and that is why she has shown great love. But anyone who has been forgiven for only a little will show only a little love.”

48 Then Jesus said to the woman, “Your sins are forgiven.”

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Yes. It makes sense to me that, while in jail, inmates would turn to religion and belief in God. Chaplains are available to help them in their conversions.

Religion seems to be a perfect emotional crutch for those that have hit rock bottom. Prisoners, alcoholics, divorcees, the depressed….

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Religion seems to be a perfect emotional crutch for those that have hit rock bottom. Prisoners, alcoholics, divorcees, the depressed….

Thank God you are not weak like them.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

[MatteoV25]

My family convinced me to go back to church recently and I have to say that I've enjoyed it. More so because the pastor teaches it like a history lesson (my favorite subject when I was still in school) and then uses it to apply to modern times. The songs are good and it is overall the most positive church I've ever been to in my life. Not once have I felt the sense of judgment that I see from an unfortunately large section of Christians, I wish more churches were like this one. I'm still a little skeptical about the idea of a God but this one particular church has been a completely positive experience so far.

 

[mcnicKY91]

My family convinced me to go back to church recently and I have to say that I've enjoyed it. More so because the pastor teaches it like a history lesson (my favorite subject when I was still in school) and then uses it to apply to modern times. The songs are good and it is overall the most positive church I've ever been to in my life. Not once have I felt the sense of judgment that I see from an unfortunately large section of Christians, I wish more churches were like this one. I'm still a little skeptical about the idea of a God but this one particular church has been a completely positive experience so far.

Spot on! If Christians are serious about trying to bring non believers to Christ, the best way is through their actions and how they treat non believers.

I am sorry you have had such negative experiences in the past with Christians. Nothing boils my blood more then supposed Christians acting in an un-Christ like way to the very ppl we are called to minister to. As a sinner myself, I have been guilty of that as well. Glad you are enjoying the church!

 

[Ron Mehico]

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

So, what exactly was the fate of the Pharisee?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So, what exactly was the fate of the Pharisee?

Hopefully salvation and an eternal existence with God.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Hopefully salvation and an eternal existence with God.

Ya, hopefully

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Ya, hopefully

Thankfully, you and I do not decide such things. God’s justice is holy and is full of grace and mercy. And, God sees more than just a snapshot of our oft-broken lives.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Thankfully, you and I do not decide such things. God’s justice is holy and is full of grace and mercy. And, God sees more than just a snapshot of our oft-broken lives.

I just don’t think the Pharisee did anything wrong in that specific example, or appears to be broken. Obviously that’s not a consensus. I think he displayed common natural behavior that sometimes is actually beneficial to our survival, like natural judging someone and their job or behavior before deciding whether to marry them and have children with them, often negatively perceiving and judging the ones you pass on.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I just don’t think the Pharisee did anything wrong in that specific example, or appears to be broken. Obviously that’s not a consensus. I think he displayed common natural behavior that sometimes is actually beneficial to our survival, like natural judging someone and their job or behavior before deciding whether to marry them and have children with them, often negatively perceiving and judging the ones you pass on.

The Pharisee touts his righteousness and why he should be affirmed by his works and by judging others. He does not acknowledge his own sin. Sin is sin, rather than some test graded on a curve. He stands before God as if he is better than others, rather than humbly before the God who knows his heart.

The publican can hardly enter the room, as he confesses his sin and admits he needs mercy. He humbles himself before God and, by comparison, others.

Looking down on other others to better position yourself may fly in some cultural contexts, but not before the one who knows everything you have done.

Others’ perceived weaknesses are not your strengths, especially before the one who knows your fears and insecurities.

By analogy, concluding others need the crutch of religion because they are weak and you do not, because you are strong, is a fiction. Your weakness is not their weakness. But, find the right pressure point and you ain’t so strong. Regardless what might be claimed on a message board.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I do feel though, and I could be wrong, that your viewpoint(and most of the Christian’s in this thread) is that an atheist (I’m not one BTW I just sometimes enjoy talking about these things) in general lives a shallow rather pointless life, doesn’t have the true moral compass as someone that believes, and ultimately goes to hell if they don’t accept salvation. I think those are typically pretty agreed upon tenants. It’s just an interesting viewpoint imo and sometimes I feel those with faith dance around it and don’t really admit it, for fear of sounding too harsh I suppose. It’s been argued on this page about a meaningless existence without faith (and I find it hard to find great meaning for a life that leads to hell tbh) and morals coming from the Bible, but it seems people have trouble just coming out and saying it.

No, atheists don't live shallow lives. Not in the slightest. If God exists, everyone's life has ultimate meaning. If atheism is true, nobody's life (including mine), has any ultimate meaning.

Second, atheists do have a moral compass. We all do. Nobody needs to read the Bible to know murder is objectively wrong, or adultery is objectively wrong, or theft is objectively wrong. A Bible is not required to know that.

Third, yes, if somebody has heard the Word and refuses to admit they are a sinner and accept God's free gift of grace through Jesus' work on the cross, they clearly have no desire to be with God for eternity. And why would God force these people who continually reject and mock Him (and generally speaking hate Him) to spend eternity with Him? An atheist in this thread can correct me if I am wrong, but I have asked the majority of atheists in this thread if they would worship God and want a relationship with Him if His existence was proven to be true...they all said no.

So what is the problem with hell then? By definition, hell is separation from God. If atheists don't want to be with God, the alternative is separation, which is what hell is. Why would that bother them? They get what they want, eternal separation from a God they don't want a relationship with. Seems like a win in their book, no?

 

[MidseasonTweak]

So what is the problem with hell then? By definition, hell is separation from God. If atheists don't want to be with God, the alternative is separation, which is what hell is. Why would that bother them? They get what they want, eternal separation from a God they don't want a relationship with. Seems like a win in their book, no?

Hell is eternal suffering forced on people because God is a henious mythical being.

Think of it like this:

Six million Jews died in the Holocaust - many died in concentration camps which we know were torturous. THEN a heartless god has the audacity to send these Jews to hell for not being Christian after they were tortured on Earth.

God (if he existed) has messed up morals and this proves it.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Hell is a difficult concept. Period. But, to attempt to follow any logic in the post above, you have to assume the writer has some concept of who is going to hell. So, the point he is attempting just breaks apart right there, making it more a post about the poster than about God.

Scripture tells us God is holy and through that filter of holiness, He is just, and full of grace, mercy and love. If true, hell will be for people who belong or want to be in hell.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Hell is eternal suffering forced on people because God is a henious mythical being.

Think of it like this:

Six million Jews died in the Holocaust - many died in concentration camps which we know were torturous. THEN a heartless god has the audacity to send these Jews to hell for not being Christian after they were tortured on Earth.

God (if he existed) has messed up morals and this proves it.

You have no idea how many Jews that were slaughtered in concentration camps were believers. Nobody does.

Second, if the God of the Bible exists, that means the Bible is 100% true. Which means everything the Bible says about God being perfectly holy, just, and righteous is true. Therefore, God will not get it wrong when it comes to who is truly saved and truly wants a relationship with Him for eternity. Doesn't matter if you are a 25 year old who gets killed by a drunk driver, or a 90 year old atheist. God 100% knows who wants a relationship with Him (based upon their belief in Jesus), and those who reject Him. Got ain't forcing anyone who rejects Him to spend eternity with Him. Why would He, and second, why would they want to be with Him if they rejected Him in the first place.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

You have no idea how many Jews that were slaughtered in concentration camps were believers. Nobody does.

Second, if the God of the Bible exists, that means the Bible is 100% true. Which means everything the Bible says about God being perfectly holy, just, and righteous is true. Therefore, God will not get it wrong when it comes to who is truly saved and truly wants a relationship with Him for eternity. Doesn't matter if you are a 25 year old who gets killed by a drunk driver, or a 90 year old atheist. God 100% knows who wants a relationship with Him (based upon their belief in Jesus), and those who reject Him. Got ain't forcing anyone who rejects Him to spend eternity with Him. Why would He, and second, why would they want to be with Him if they rejected Him in the first place.

Not saying they'd want to be with him, but being subjected to torture just because of that is evil. I've said it before, but I am objectivity more moral than God. I wouldn't let children get raped or tortured, for instance.

Why do you think it's okay that God allows that?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

““You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭43‬-‭45‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Without God, all existence is hell. He is the good that makes the sun rise on believer and unbeliever alike. He is the good that keeps this place from being truly hell.

“Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NIV

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

if the God of the Bible exists, that means the Bible is 100% true.

There are not enough laugh emojis for this doozy.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

If the God of the Bible exists, there is moral authority.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Not saying they'd want to be with him, but being subjected to torture just because of that is evil. I've said it before, but I am objectivity more moral than God. I wouldn't let children get raped or tortured, for instance.

Why do you think it's okay that God allows that?

How would you prevent children from being raped or tortured without removing free will?

As an aside, if God exists, the Bible is clear as to what judgment those terrible ppl who committed those heinous crimes against children will receive. If atheism is true, those ppl face no eternal judgment. Heck, just think of all those sick perverts walking around who have never been caught...if atheism is true, there is no judgment at all for those individuals.

As for why God allows for this awful stuff to happen...that is the product of living in a world full of sin in which people have free will to do what is right or wrong. God has limited His power by giving us free will. Humanity screwed it up, not God.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

How would you prevent children from being raped or tortured without removing free will?

As an aside, if God exists, the Bible is clear as to what judgment those terrible ppl who committed those heinous crimes against children will receive. If atheism is true, those ppl face no eternal judgment. Heck, just think of all those sick perverts walking around who have never been caught...if atheism is true, there is no judgment at all for those individuals.

As for why God allows for this awful stuff to happen...that is the product of living in a world full of sin in which people have free will to do what is right or wrong. God has limited His power by giving us free will. Humanity screwed it up, not God.

While evangelical atheists wish for people to leave God, that move in no way betters the problems the atheist claims regarding pain and ugliness; however, if every person lived a God-honoring life, rape, murder, theft, starvation, war, etc. would be things of the past.

 

[cole854]

God not stopping the holocaust is no different than not stopping a shooter who kills innocent children in a school. It is difficult to grasp, and will test your faith, but if you truly understood God and His Word in regards to sin/faith then it becomes clear.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

This is a moment that some here will not grasp, but it is very informative:

“David prayed to God that the child would get well. He refused to eat anything, and every night he went into his room and spent the night lying on the floor. His court officials went to him and tried to make him get up, but he refused and would not eat anything with them. A week later the child died, and David's officials were afraid to tell him the news. They said, “While the child was living, David wouldn't answer us when we spoke to him. How can we tell him that his child is dead? He might do himself some harm!” When David noticed them whispering to each other, he realized that the child had died. So he asked them, “Is the child dead?” “Yes, he is,” they answered. David got up from the floor, had a bath, combed his hair, and changed his clothes. Then he went and worshipped in the house of the LORD. When he returned to the palace, he asked for food and ate it as soon as it was served. “We don't understand this,” his officials said to him. “While the child was alive, you wept for him and would not eat; but as soon as he died, you got up and ate!” “Yes,” David answered, “I did fast and weep while he was still alive. I thought that the LORD might be merciful to me and not let the child die. But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Could I bring the child back to life? I will some day go to where he is, but he can never come back to me.””
‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭12‬:‭16‬-‭23‬ ‭GNBUK

 

[megablue]

How would you prevent children from being raped or tortured without removing free will?

As an aside, if God exists, the Bible is clear as to what judgment those terrible ppl who committed those heinous crimes against children will receive. If atheism is true, those ppl face no eternal judgment. Heck, just think of all those sick perverts walking around who have never been caught...if atheism is true, there is no judgment at all for those individuals.

As for why God allows for this awful stuff to happen...that is the product of living in a world full of sin in which people have free will to do what is right or wrong. God has limited His power by giving us free will. Humanity screwed it up, not God.

Does evil have to exist or even be a thing ?? God, being all powerful, could’ve created a world without any evil. Such a world would not eliminate free will. People could still have the free will to choose among good things, much like being able to make the always fun choices at Baskin-Robbin’s. What a world that would be … some might say heaven on earth. 😎