The human brain is a very fragile organ. Religion has proven to be a cover for many types of brain disorders. Psychopathy, pedophilia, narcissism, misogyny and grand delusions, as in Johnson’s case, are just some of the mental illnesses that are ameliorated by attaching a religious significance to them.
POLL: Is there a God ??
- Thread starter megablue
- Start date
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Troubling enough when it’s a random Joe Schmoe. But Johnson is third in succession to the Oval Office, and access to nuclear weapons codes. That dude is mental.
How would you view someone that is objectively smart that is as educated as you that is a devout Christian/Muslim/Jew whatever?
Pretty sure you could go down the line of the top ten politicians and we’d all cringe at them having access to nuclear codes. Politicians on both sides being awful should be something we can all agree on.
Because I’m an old-school American, I would view him in the same light that I view everyone. He is free in this country, hopefully far into the future, to be what he wants to be as long as he doesn’t infringe upon the civil liberties of any other person(s).
Individualism is not a threat to our way of life. In fact, it’s validation of our system.
It’s groupthink that is becoming a real danger to our democratic republic. “Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs when a group makes an unreasonable decision driven by a desire to reach a consensus. These people make this decision without proper analytics, not because they lack the instruments or data, but because they put conformity above critical thinking.” ~ Dovetail
Authoritarianism can result when groupthink reaches a national level. It seems to be just an election or two away from reality in this country. Authoritarianism can evolve into totalitarianism, as it has done in Russia, for example. It’s sobering to think that Russians fairly elected Putin in 2000. He defeated two other candidates. Since then, though, he has run virtually unopposed after he and the Russian Duma (their legislative body) outlawed any strong opposition to him.
For me, I have not seen there is proof that there is or isn’t a god. Religion is based on geography and where you were born. There may be a god…but I haven’t seen anything to prove or disprove it yet.
If I were born in the Middle East - I’m likely going to follow Islam. In the far east, maybe Buddha. If I’m born in India maybe I’m a Hindu.
It just so happens I was born in KY where Christians exist…
Who’s god is better?
If I were born in the Middle East - I’m likely going to follow Islam. In the far east, maybe Buddha. If I’m born in India maybe I’m a Hindu.
It just so happens I was born in KY where Christians exist…
Who’s god is better?
This is falsified by people who were born in different cultures who did not take to the religion of the region, like indeed agnostics and atheists, or Christians in China, or newage hippies in the west with Hinduism, etc. There are are a myriad of reasons one would make whatever choice, wherever. That reasoning is way too simplisitc.
It additionally makes various unwarranted assumptions, like belief is ultimately the same thing between religions and simply professing belief means belief.
But one way to objectively measure which "god is better" is which culture produced the most human flourishment?
I definitely understand your point about people adopting minority views or religions, but jcrow10 said “likely” and I think his point is accurate. There is, generally-speaking, a “geography” to religious belief systems.
Of course people are likely to adopt the cultural beliefs of their culture. That goes for atheism/agnosticism as well, which was advanced here in the post-enlightenment West.
I guess you agree with him, then, and I misunderstood the implication of your use of the word “falsified” in your reply. Generally-speaking, I guess everyone agrees that most people get their religious beliefs from their parents, not having chosen their parents and/or where their parents reside. It seems to me that the primary role of missionaries is/has been to change peoples’ minds.
How many people do you know? Take a poll in any family over 2 people over the age of majority and ask about their religious beliefs. Almost half of my family are agnostics or atheists.
Many agnostics and atheists love to reassure themselves that (1) believers believe because they are emotionally weak, (2) believers believe because of context, and/or (3) believers believe because they are not educated or intelligent.
There is nothing more Freudian or hypocritical than getting on a message board and pretending these three things about those who believe in God.
The majority of people in this country claim to be believers, Christians in particular. Yes, as you stated, that number is slowly diminishing as people lose their faith. I know many people and there is a migration from practicing and proclaimed faith among them. My ONLY point was to say that religious belief, generally-speaking, has been divided along geographic lines. That’s it … I did not mean or intend to say or suggest anything else. My post was not intended to be argumentative or combative, but only to say that I agree with jcrow10 about his use of the word “likely” in his original post. I think he’s accurate.
I don't disagree, no. But the implication is falsified: the implication is that it is causal, that it negates the validity of Christianity since other cultures have other religions and most people are likely to adopt their regional beliefs.
If most people get most their beliefs from their parents and culture, then why would you expect religoius belief to be any different? It says nothing about the truth claims of Christianity. That is what I mean by falsified. People are going to find "their truth" for a host of reasons, cultural just being one of many psoibble, and that means nothing wrt something being true or not.
Claiming belief and actual belief are two entirely different things. I'd wager the number of genuine believers in Christ is vanishingly small, but I don';t know. It's not possible to know who actually believes; only He knows the heart.
It is my opinion those people did not lose thier faith. They never had it.
Thanks for your post, well-stated. I definitely agree with your second point that claiming belief and actual belief are two separate and distinct things. No question about it.
Which is also another similarily overly simplistic common "argument" presented by atheists; namely, that believers must be somehow deficient in ways the atheist is not.
In the same thread, we have the comment that the Bible was written by and about a people in a very small geographic area and that religious belief, including Christianity in North and South America, Europe, and Africa, is causally influenced by geography. Wild.
“And Peter said to them, ‘Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.’”
Acts 2:38-39 ESV
Acts 2:38-39 ESV
Not baiting. It was a sincere question. Instead of the Bible, what if in BCE, Stan Lee and Lee Falk had collaborated on a book about Spider-Man and the Phantom (he's also known as the Ghost who walks) that people loved and looked to the characters for guidance? Then through the ages, the tales of their exploits are passed on to others and reinterpreted to fit the narratives of different people? Would people today still worship these characters? Also, I'd be interested in how you view the money spent on the 83 for Truth billboards. Do you think that's a good use of that money? $18+ million a year could do a lot of good for a lot of people in need.
Like Beowulf and Homer and others? Those characters existed and we see them as early fiction.
The problem with your hypothetical is that we know enough to know the scenario you propose is not what happened with regard to Jesus.
As to your question about money, atheists, hedonists, billionaires, governments actually waste money, so I am not sure why you ask me about some group offering up billboards. But, here is my response.
18 million could do some temporal good (people speculate it would take over 175 billion to raise everyone in this country above the poverty level), but if people enter into eternity because they were intrigued by a billboard, the money was well spent.
And, if all people truly followed Jesus, this is how we would live:
“And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.”
Acts 2:42-47 ESV
And the Gospel message spreads to the ends of the earth from one little postage stamp of an area.
Gamaliel got it right:
“But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice,”
Acts 5:34-39 ESV
You will not be able to overthrow them. Kill them, censor them, threaten them, attempt to shame them and, yet, the message spreads.
You may think it diminishes because you believe doubt and faith in atheism is winning in this country, but the word spreads. Africa, Asia, etc.
And, that is a good good thing.
Gamaliel got it right:
“But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice,”
Acts 5:34-39 ESV
You will not be able to overthrow them. Kill them, censor them, threaten them, attempt to shame them and, yet, the message spreads.
You may think it diminishes because you believe doubt and faith in atheism is winning in this country, but the word spreads. Africa, Asia, etc.
And, that is a good good thing.
🤦♂️
I was raised Catholic. In college, I turned away. It was not hard. In fact, it merely was conformity to culture. So, I was an “amazing apostate.” 😆 And, it was an easy decision.
That remained my posture and I was comfortable with that belief well into my 30s. I would talk religion with anyone, but I was at most an agnostic, but probably was an atheist. I would attend church with family on occasion, but tried to avoid it. When asked what I thought of the sermon (my wife’s family was Baptist), I would comment on the expensive cars in the parking lot and how I felt the pastor was just saying what the congregation wanted to hear.
I read Matthew in my 30s to be a better advocate for my position, because I did not believe Christians knew their own Bible. I was happy with my position. There was no turmoil in my life, at least not that I was aware of. I provide that qualifier because my life changed for the better after God changed me, even though I did not know there was anything amiss when I opened the Bible. Into the book of Matthew, I started to see Jesus for the first time and I realized I was wrong. I continued to read and to even study. I was not searching an answer to problems, or love, or even community. In fact, I lost community, because some of my closest friends could not handle that I was now “one of them.”
And, my story is not unique. Many well-educated nonbelievers who were living good lives and were comfortable with their disbelief and rejection of religion have come to believe in Jesus as Lord. They were not running from or to anything and, yet, their hearts were changed.
Maybe I should pull 25 of them and write a journal article. 😝
Thanks for the share. I, too, was raised Catholic K-12 and practiced until age 48. My fervor ranged between casual and extremely devout, up until I lost my faith. I just decided that I simply could no longer believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. It was in a pew on Easter Sunday, while standing to reaffirm my baptismal promises and my profession of faith, that I came to this final and unwavering conclusion. I had to be honest with myself at that moment.
I thought this current video, only a day old, was interesting and presented some rationales folks have in both converting and de-converting. Nothing earth-shattering to any of us, but a look into the decision-making people undertake.
Last edited:
For me, if Lee Falk had written the bible, with The Phantom in place of God, people could look up to The Phantom (aka The Ghost Who Walks) as a beacon for humanity as he fights for the innocent and against all injustices without drowning the entire planet (except for an old man and his family and 2 of each animal) or any of the other trappings on the bible like incest, slavery, rape and being thrown into a burning pit for eternity. The world could be a much better place with more people like The Phantom (aka The Ghost Who Walks), or Spider Man, Batman, etc.
As for the billboards, I never said it would wipe out poverty. I just question the motives of people who SHOULD be looking to actually HELP people instead of trying to sell them on a fairytale. It's why I never tell anyone in need that I'll pray for them, but instead will offer to actually do something for them if possible that might help their situation out, if even just a little.
In their opinion, they are trying to help and feel they are helping with those billboards. They dont believe it to be a fairytale so for them they feel they are helping, much in the same way they think prayer is helpful. It’s called a different viewpoint.
Do what you want. Pray how you want. Go to whatever church you want.
Don’t tell others how to live.
I talk to God and I don’t need an intermediary to translate for me. I don’t proclaim my God is the truth or the only one. My relationship to God is mine and mine alone.
I personally don’t want to live in Christian Saudi Arabia which is where some of these folks are trying to take us.
Don’t tell others how to live.
I talk to God and I don’t need an intermediary to translate for me. I don’t proclaim my God is the truth or the only one. My relationship to God is mine and mine alone.
I personally don’t want to live in Christian Saudi Arabia which is where some of these folks are trying to take us.
You are okay with the fairytale you have been sold. And, yet, if God used those billboards to turn people to Him, impoverished people would benefit everywhere. That sounds like a better outcome than you complaining about billboards and doubling down on your comic book theory.
The past 5-10 years has been a constant barrage of atheist fundamentalist activists telling us how we must live. Just listen to our politicians and the nuts on college campuses. We live in that place right now.
Who is trying to tell you how to live exactly.
Last time I checked you were free to worship or not worship as you please in this country. That’s what makes America great.
Atheists sure spend a lot of time and effort worrying about, scorning, ridiculing others, over something that they don't believe in.
All the while, engaging in their OWN faith based religion. One that is every bit as dogmatic and intolerant as the ones they criticize. IOW, they're people. They're not inherently smarter or more sophisticated. They just THINK they are (talk about faith-based LOL)
All the while, engaging in their OWN faith based religion. One that is every bit as dogmatic and intolerant as the ones they criticize. IOW, they're people. They're not inherently smarter or more sophisticated. They just THINK they are (talk about faith-based LOL)
I think if you’re taking your cues from angry people on social media who just like to argue about things so they can pat themselves on the back and say “I’m right and you’re wrong” you might want to rethink things.
Maybe I’m just old.
I’d be more inclined to listen to a Christopher Hitchens or an Issac Asimov if I were an atheist.
Maybe I’m just old.
I’d be more inclined to listen to a Christopher Hitchens or an Issac Asimov if I were an atheist.
This is the copout we see here. I understand when a believer says, “God exists” and the atheist says “prove it,” the burden is on the theist. But, as we have seen here, atheists make dispositive statements like “there is no God” and then attempt to shift the burden to the theist as if atheists never have to prove their faith positions, but others do. Their running from the burden of proving their own conclusory belief is evidence of faith. They cannot prove what they zealously advocate.
Are you speaking of the God of the Bible, or some other one that you believe?
