POLL: Is there a God ??

[mcnicKY91]

Supposedly, this is all part of your God's plan. So the ire directed towards him is warranted

What if that 10 year old was never killed by a drunk driver...or let's say a 10 year old who had cancer doesn't die from it. Instead, what if 10 years down the road when they are 20 years old they are responsible for a mass shooting that kills 8 ppl. Are you now going to be mad at God for allowing that person to kill 8 ppl? Because remember, you were upset that God did not prevent their death at 10 years old.

My point is, no one besides God can see the entire picture. How do you know that the 10 year old who was killed by the drunk driver wouldn't have committed an unspeakable crime at 20 yrs old?

 

[mcnicKY91]

I believe that is what a loving God would do......
If we are all at the mercy of your God's master plan, how do we have free will?

Ok, maybe the loving God allowed that to happen, because if He didn't, that person would have committed unspeakable crimes when older?

We can't see the full picture, if I could I would be God.

 

[crashtestdummy]

What if that 10 year old was never killed by a drunk driver...or let's say a 10 year old who had cancer doesn't die from it. Instead, what if 10 years down the road when they are 20 years old they are responsible for a mass shooting that kills 8 ppl. Are you now going to be mad at God for allowing that person to kill 8 ppl? Because remember, you were upset that God did not prevent their death at 10 years old.

My point is, no one besides God can see the entire picture. How do you know that the 10 year old who was killed by the drunk driver wouldn't have committed an unspeakable crime at 20 yrs old?

Yes, your God is capable of preventing these things, and chooses not too. And you believers bend over backwards to justify it!

 

[mcnicKY91]

Yes, your God is capable of preventing these things, and chooses not too. And you believers bend over backwards to justify it!

I am not justifying anything. That is Gods problem. Not mine. I can't see the entire tapestry for why God allows certain things to happen. It's not humanly possible.

You want me to tell God is He is a terrible being because He doesn't prevent sad things from happening. I am telling you I don't know why he allows them to happen, but He obviously has a reason because He, not I, can see the entire picture.

 

[MatteoV25]

What if that 10 year old was never killed by a drunk driver...or let's say a 10 year old who had cancer doesn't die from it. Instead, what if 10 years down the road when they are 20 years old they are responsible for a mass shooting that kills 8 ppl. Are you now going to be mad at God for allowing that person to kill 8 ppl? Because remember, you were upset that God did not prevent their death at 10 years old.

My point is, no one besides God can see the entire picture. How do you know that the 10 year old who was killed by the drunk driver wouldn't have committed an unspeakable crime at 20 yrs old?

What if that 10 year old would've became the person who cured cancer? We can come up with a million different scenarios but ultimately in your all's view, anything negative that ever happens occurs because God wants to continuously punish us for existing in the way that he created us.

 

[mcnicKY91]

What if that 10 year old would've became the person who cured cancer? We can come up with a million different scenarios but ultimately in your all's view, anything negative that ever happens occurs because God wants to continuously punish us for existing in the way that he created us.

That is not true at all. I do not hold the belief that anything negative that happens is because God wants to punish us. Additionally, that is not supported biblically either. Not sure where you are getting that from.

Heck, I love Jesus and am so grateful for what He did on the cross for me, because I am a terrible sinner. I have a relationship with God because of that. But my life has been anything but easy.

 

[crashtestdummy]

How do you know that the 10 year old who was killed by the drunk driver wouldn't have committed an unspeakable crime at 20 yrs old?

I am not justifying anything. That is Gods problem. Not mine. I can't see the entire tapestry for why God allows certain things to happen. It's not humanly possible.

You want me to tell God is He is a terrible being because He doesn't prevent sad things from happening. I am telling you I don't know why he allows them to happen, but He obviously has a reason because He, not I, can see the entire picture.

Yes you are....
You suggesting your God has a higher purpose for allowing such tragedy is an example of you bending over backwards to justify your God's actions, or lack there of.
Why must he allow tragedy to prevent tragedy.....He's freakin God....right?

 

[MatteoV25]

That is not true at all. I do not hold the belief that anything negative that happens is because God wants to punish us. Additionally, that is not supported biblically either. Not sure where you are getting that from.

Heck, I love Jesus and am so grateful for what He did on the cross for me, because I am a terrible sinner. I have a relationship with God because of that. But my life has been anything but easy.

Anything negative that happens is because God allowed it to be so and he allows it to be so because we're sinners. Isn't that what you've been saying?

 

[mcnicKY91]

Yes you are....
You suggesting your God has a higher purpose for allowing such tragedy is an example of you bending over backwards to justify your God's actions, or lack there of.
Why must he allow tragedy to prevent tragedy.....He's freakin God....right?

No, I am not. Again, it is God's problem to justify, not mine. I trust in His character.

Not sure why it matters to you. You have made it very clear that even if God did provide sufficient proof for His existence, you still wouldn't want a relationship with Him. Makes all this strange, to say the least.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Anything negative that happens is because God allowed it to be so and he allows it to be so because we're sinners. Isn't that what you've been saying?

No, I am saying all these tragedies and horrific things we see are a byproduct of sin. Not because God is sitting it out on the sidelines. There are consequences for our actions. Simple as that.

 

[MatteoV25]

No, I am saying all these tragedies and horrific things we see are a byproduct of sin. Not because God is sitting it out on the sidelines. There are consequences for our actions. Simple as that.

Is that not the exact same thing that I've been saying???

 

[mcnicKY91]

Is that not the exact same thing that I've been saying???

No, you said anything negative that ever happens is because God wants to punish us. You said that, not me. That notion is not supported biblically at all.

Is that not what you said? I went back and re-read your post to make sure I understood it correctly.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The is idea that God should stop tragedy, or tragedy in the life of a 10 year-old comes from the imaginations of people and not from the Bible. While God can take bad and use it for good, the Bible does not inform that bad things don’t happen to good or innocent people. Quite the contrary.

 

[crashtestdummy]

No, I am saying all these tragedies and horrific things we see are a byproduct of sin. Not because God is sitting it out on the sidelines. There are consequences for our actions. Simple as that.

And the innocent must pay for other's supposed sin. And your religion claims your God is "Just".
Perfect example of why your God isn't deserving of worship.

 

[MatteoV25]

No, you said anything negative that ever happens is because God wants to punish us. You said that, not me. That notion is not supported biblically at all.

Is that not what you said? I went back and re-read your post to make sure I understood it correctly.

And what you said was that there are consequences for our actions AKA we need to be punished for our sins. Seems like we're saying the same thing

 

[crashtestdummy]

The is idea that God should stop tragedy, or tragedy in the life of a 10 year-old comes from the imaginations of people and not from the Bible. While God can take bad and use it for good, the Bible does not inform that bad things don’t happen to good or innocent people. Quite the contrary.

Is that so much to ask....from a God?

 

[MatteoV25]

Is that so much to ask....from a God?

All these Christians that are SO worried about kids getting indoctrinated into some negative lifestyle sure have no idea how to look themselves in the mirror.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

All these Christians that are SO worried about kids getting indoctrinated into some negative lifestyle sure have no idea how to look themselves in the mirror.

Weird comment. Sounds like you are okay with kids being indoctrinated into negative lifestyles.

 

[mcnicKY91]

All these Christians that are SO worried about kids getting indoctrinated into some negative lifestyle sure have no idea how to look themselves in the mirror.

Nah...I am blessed that my 8 yr old twins accepted Jesus as their personal Savior, and are eager to glorify His name in all they do. Nothing else can make a father happier in life, knowing that his children have a relationship with their Father. Good stuff.

 

[MatteoV25]

Weird comment. Sounds like you are okay with kids being indoctrinated into negative lifestyles.

Not what I'm saying at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy among those who scream the loudest about it.

 

[mcnicKY91]

And the innocent must pay for other's supposed sin. And your religion claims your God is "Just".
Perfect example of why your God isn't deserving of worship.

Unfortunately, you will be worshipping God. The Bible is very clear that one day all will confess that Jesus is God, and that one day every knee will bow.

I always get a kick out of atheists saying they wouldnt worship God even if He was real. The fatal flaw in that argument is if God is real, that means the Bible is real. And the Bible clearly states one day all will bow. That would include you.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Not what I'm saying at all, just pointing out the hypocrisy among those who scream the loudest about it.

Sounds like opinions, not hypocrisy. You have your opinions and others have their opinions.

 

[Ron Mehico]

What in the world could you guys still be arguing about at this point? A quick glance and it’s like the same 6 posters for 95% of the posts the last 30 pages. Like isn’t everyone just repeating themselves at this point? Either it makes sense that there’s a god or it doesn’t. If it does then it’s easy to spin everything about god into a positive, likewise a negative if it doesn’t.

 

[mcnicKY91]

What in the world could you guys still be arguing about at this point? A quick glance and it’s like the same 6 posters for 95% of the posts the last 30 pages. Like isn’t everyone just repeating themselves at this point? Either it makes sense that there’s a god or it doesn’t. If it does then it’s easy to spin everything about god into a positive, likewise a negative if it doesn’t.

Haha...I feel like those sentiments could be boiled down to 99% of all message board threads that ever existed (especially those that eclipse the 5 pg mark).

 

[crashtestdummy]

Nah...I am blessed that my 8 yr old twins accepted Jesus as their personal Savior, and are eager to glorify His name in all they do. Nothing else can make a father happier in life, knowing that his children have a relationship with their Father. Good stuff.

Wonder if you would feel the same if they suffered through cancer? O'well must have had a higher purpose....
Did your (8yr old) twins accept Jesus based on their extensive life experience, or your brainwashing....
Eight year olds do what their parents tell them. They had no choice!

 

[MatteoV25]

Sounds like opinions, not hypocrisy. You have your opinions and others have their opinions.

So why should the opinions of conservative Christians take precedent over the opinions of the LGBTQ community or the opinions of parents who just want their kids to read books about actual history or the opinions of women who feel that they shouldn't be forced to give birth to the baby of their rapist?

 

[mcnicKY91]

Wonder if you would feel the same if they suffered through cancer? O'well must have had a higher purpose....
Did your (8yr old) twins accept Jesus based on their extensive life experience, or your brainwashing....
Eight year olds do what their parents tell them. They had no choice!

That's the great thing about having a relationship with God through Jesus, it is an individual choice. A decision that cannot be made on anyone's behalf. They came to us (my wife and myself) and told us they wanted to ask Jesus into their hearts. That is something that can only happen in their hearts, not through my own doing. Really cool experience.

I don't understand your first remarks about feeling the same way if they had cancer...I would be just as ecstatic knowing they were believers in Jesus with or without cancer.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So why should the opinions of conservative Christians take precedent over the opinions of the LGBTQ community or the opinions of parents who just want their kids to read books about actual history or the opinions of women who feel that they shouldn't be forced to give birth to the baby of their rapist?

Who said they do? The majority of politicians who are socially conservative aren't true Christians anyways.

 

[MatteoV25]

Who said they do?

All these laws getting passed here recently by people who are "proud Christians" sure back up what I've been saying. Just look at what got passed in Kentucky a few months ago.

 

[crashtestdummy]

That's the great thing about having a relationship with God through Jesus, it is an individual choice. A decision that cannot be made on anyone's behalf. They came to us (my wife and myself) and told us they wanted to ask Jesus into their hearts. That is something that can only happen in their hearts, not through my own doing. Really cool experience.

I don't understand your first remarks about feeling the same way if they had cancer...I would be just as ecstatic knowing they were believers in Jesus with or without cancer.

Again, was their decision based on their extensive knowledge about life? Or you manipulating their reasoning....at 8 years old.

 

[mcnicKY91]

All these laws getting passed here recently by people who are "proud Christians" sure back up what I've been saying. Just look at what got passed in Kentucky a few months ago.

Majority of the people who claim to be Christians are not, nor do they bear any fruit indicating they are believers. I prefer not to be lumped in with them.

I don't live in Kentucky anyways.

There are also plenty of socially conservative politicians who aren't religious as well. So your one size fits all approach doesn't really hold water.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Again, was their decision based on their extensive knowledge about life? Or you manipulating their reasoning....at 8 years old.

Manipulating my children? Are you serious dude?? That is some weird questioning, even for an atheist.

 

[MatteoV25]

Majority of the people who claim to be Christians are not, nor do they bear any fruit indicating they are believers. I prefer not to be lumped in with them.

I don't live in Kentucky anyways.

There are also plenty of socially conservative politicians who aren't religious as well. So your one size fits all approach doesn't really hold water.

You may prefer to not be lumped in with them but you are. You can claim they aren't Christians but that's truly based on nothing since I'm sure they would say that they are indeed Christian. I never said one size fits all, I said that these laws that are actually getting passed are being done so by people who claim to be Christian.

 

[JDHoss]

Just so I am understanding the premise here...you want God to step in when a drunk driver is about to hit a 10 year old child? Or when a child develops cancer, He is supposed to step in and stop it?

All of what you guys said above is heart breaking. Really is. I would have preferred if the guy had never gone to the bar and gotten hammered, and made a terrible decision to drive. Instead of directing your ire at God, it is quite remarkable that you don't lash out at the drunk for driving...

At what point does one lose their free will? Should God prevent every single person who is impaired from getting in a car? From going to the bar? From taking that first sip? When exactly should God intervene, removing our free will?

Childhood cancer sucks. Unfortunately, it is the result of sin in this world. Not because God is merciless and enjoys seeing children and their families suffer, but because we are awful people who sin. I trust in a God who sees the entire picture/tapestry, something that none of us can.

It was a response to your notion to CTD that maybe God was showing him an "abundance of mercy". As for me, I'm a non believer. There was no God or devil directing anything that morning when that little girl got hit. Good/horrific things happen to good/horrible people every single day with no rhyme or reason. There was no God or devil who planted some malignant cells in the brain of the 10 year old son of one of my coworkers that led to his agonizing death. It just happened. There's no punishment/reward after death. I just want to live my life and bring no harm to anyone.

 

[mcnicKY91]

You may prefer to not be lumped in with them but you are. You can claim they aren't Christians but that's truly based on nothing since I'm sure they would say that they are indeed Christian. I never said one size fits all, I said that these laws that are actually getting passed are being done so by people who claim to be Christian.

Who cares what they say? Why are you so hung up on that? Do you know how many people claim to believe in the God of the Bible, yet from Monday to Sat show nothing in their lives that indicate that?

They are out at the clubs, getting hammered, having sex left and right, doing drugs, living in excess...I basically summed up a large portion of Hollywood for you as well, let alone the rest of the so called "believers."

While I don't mind talking politics, this isn't the thread to do so. If I could be guaranteed it would remain respectful and not shut down, I would do it. But we both know that won't happen, lol.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Manipulating my children? Are you serious dude?? That is some weird questioning, even for an atheist

Perhaps you are ignorant on the word manipulate...

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So why should the opinions of conservative Christians take precedent over the opinions of the LGBTQ community or the opinions of parents who just want their kids to read books about actual history or the opinions of women who feel that they shouldn't be forced to give birth to the baby of their rapist?

If they take precedent, it’s because we live in a democratic republic. And, as stated above, atheists, Muslims, and people of all religious persuasion are conservatives, not just Christians. Likewise for liberals.

A parent can let their kid read legal crap. The political question is whether the government will be providing that crap.

Take it to the political board.

 

[MatteoV25]

Who cares what they say? Why are you so hung up on that? Do you know how many people claim to believe in the God of the Bible, yet from Monday to Sat show nothing in their lives that indicate that?

They are out at the clubs, getting hammered, having sex left and right, doing drugs, living in excess...I basically summed up a large portion of Hollywood for you as well, let alone the rest of the so called "believers."

While I don't mind talking politics, this isn't the thread to do so. If I could be guaranteed it would remain respectful and not shut down, I would do it. But we both know that won't happen, lol.

Because words carry weight, especially when your words have the power to enact laws that impact all of us. Regardless, you're right, this thread has gone a little off the rails. 53 pages later we've definitely established whether God exists at this point, right? Let's go ahead and end it

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Because words carry weight, especially when your words have the power to enact laws that impact all of us. Regardless, you're right, this thread has gone a little off the rails. 53 pages later we've definitely established whether God exists at this point, right? Let's go ahead and end it

Representative Government 101 - take it to the political board.

 

[mcnicKY91]

It was a response to your notion to CTD that maybe God was showing him an "abundance of mercy". As for me, I'm a non believer. There was no God or devil directing anything that morning when that little girl got hit. Good/horrific things happen to good/horrible people every single day with no rhyme or reason. There was no God or devil who planted some malignant cells in the brain of the 10 year old son of one of my coworkers that led to his agonizing death. It just happened. There's no punishment/reward after death. I just want to live my life and bring no harm to anyone.

I was saying that in response to Midseason Tweak, who said he has repeatedly asked for God to strike him down.

I understand your viewpoint. For me, I believe the God of the Bible exists for two reasons: 1. The fine tuning of the Earth/human body/universe is most reasonably explained biblically and by God's incredible power. Nothing else comes reasonably close in my opinion. 2. I look at all the biblical prophecy that has come true, to perfection, and can be validated by non biblical sources. So I am not just saying "the Bible said this would happen, and what do you know, the Bible proves it." I am saying events prophesied in the Bible have been historically proven to be true by sources outside of the Bible. Pretty cool stuff.