POLL: Is there a God ??

[christophero]

My frustration is from getting the same standard answers I always get. The Bible is filled with questionable things that make no sense to me. I was never encouraged to go down this road growing up in the church as you are just told "all the answers are in here" "we don't know the mind of God" "just surrender to him" etc. It's always been a challenge for me. But I respect people's beliefs, or try to.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

There are no questions not sufficiently answered in the Bible, at least not the ones typically posed by unbelievers looking to self-validate their unbelief.

Becoming a believer does not requisite "turning your brain off," as is understood by you atheists/agnostics.

The Bible is full of contradictions. God clearly likes screwing with us, or, a more likely situation, doesn't exist.

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Some of those were fables just like anything else. Also, God and some of those stories aren’t supposed to be logical. You can’t apply logic to God. You’re trying to take your experience on earth and fit God into the same hole while using the wrong peg. You don’t have to believe, I certainly don’t give shit if you do, it’s just weird you spend so much time trying to make others believe what you do when that’s never going to happen.

Hop into the political thread and convince those bros to switch sides while you’re at it…

Christians are literally called to proselytize. Ohio, myself and many other atheists don't actually care if you become atheist. We just find it ridiculous the fantastical stories that people choose to believe in.

 

[crashtestdummy]

My frustration is from getting the same standard answers I always get. The Bible is filled with questionable things that make no sense to me. I was never encouraged to go down this road growing up in the church as you are just old "all the answers are in here" "we don't know the mind of God" "just surrender to him" etc. It's always been a challenge for me. But I respect people's beliefs, or try to.

I used to say "I respect peoples beliefs". If I'm being honest, I don't believe I do. Certainly depends on what beliefs we're talking about. When did beliefs become automatically deserving of respect by default? When did it become such a crime to criticize religion/a God? Although I try, I find it difficult to respect the people that believe in Christianity and many other religions. However I do respect people's "right" to believe whatever they choose.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Christians are literally called to proselytize. Ohio, myself and many other atheists don't actually care if you become atheist. We just find it ridiculous the fantastical stories that people choose to believe in.

I don't consider the stories to be fantastical when I look at them through the lens of understanding that a supernatural God performs them. God is not bound by the laws of nature. Again, if He was, He wouldn't be God.

So on the surface, parting the Red Sea, sustaining Jonah in a large fish, coming to Earth via a virgin, filling an ark with two of every animal, etc, all deny the laws of nature as we understand them. But God exists outside nature, and is capable of performing supernatural phenomenon or miracles as He sees fit, that supercede the laws of nature in place.

If He couldn't do that, nobody would worship Him. I know I wouldn't.

 

[crashtestdummy]

I don't consider the stories to be fantastical when I look at them through the lens of understanding that a supernatural God performs them. God is not bound by the laws of nature. Again, if He was, He wouldn't be God.

So on the surface, parting the Red Sea, sustaining Jonah in a large fish, coming to Earth via a virgin, filling an ark with two of every animal, etc, all deny the laws of nature as we understand them. But God exists outside nature, and is capable of performing supernatural phenomenon or miracles as He sees fit, that supercede the laws of nature in place.

If He couldn't do that, nobody would worship Him. I know I wouldn't.

That is the issue...one has to abandon reality and critical thinking in your reality. So he shouldn't have any problems with eliminating say......children suffering with cancer.
Either your God is evil, doesn't give a shit, or non existent...
Basic reading comprehension skills suggests the bible is a fine example of why your God is not deserving of worship.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So he shouldn't have any problems with eliminating say......children suffering with cancer.
Either your God is evil, doesn't give a shit, or non existent...
Basic reading comprehension skills suggests the bible is a fine example of why your God is not deserving of worship.

You didn't address anything I said. I am speaking to the reality of God...you, as most atheists always do, immediately rushes to condemn the character of God.

In general, atheists can't stay on point when discussing the REALITY of God...they are so quick to pivot to the CHARACTER of God...two completely different things.

 

[crashtestdummy]

You didn't address anything I said. I am speaking to the reality of God...you, as most atheists always do, immediately rushes to condemn the character of God.

In general, atheists can't stay on point when discussing the REALITY of God...they are so quick to pivot to the CHARACTER of God...two completely different things.

That is the issue...one has to abandon reality and critical thinking in your reality.

 

[mcnicKY91]

That is the issue...one has to abandon reality and critical thinking in your reality.

That just isn't logical, unfortunately. The God of the Universe that I worship exists outside of the very laws of nature that He created. He has to, or He isn't God. No sane Christian would ever worship a being who is bound by the laws of nature. If one limits the God of the Universe to the laws of nature, inherently He cannot be God.

If you want to get into a debate on Christian apologetics (which the majority of this thread has been anyways, i.e. why does God allow suffering, why does evil exist), we can do that. But that doesn't speak to existence or non existence, logically.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I don't consider the stories to be fantastical when I look at them through the lens of understanding that a supernatural God performs them. God is not bound by the laws of nature. Again, if He was, He wouldn't be God.

So on the surface, parting the Red Sea, sustaining Jonah in a large fish, coming to Earth via a virgin, filling an ark with two of every animal, etc, all deny the laws of nature as we understand them. But God exists outside nature, and is capable of performing supernatural phenomenon or miracles as He sees fit, that supercede the laws of nature in place.

If He couldn't do that, nobody would worship Him. I know I wouldn't.

Someone earlier mentioned “turning your brain off”. I think that this is the epitome of that concept. Disregarding everything you know to be true about the world around you, and accepting absurdities as fact because you want so desperately to believe that your god is real. Fearing that to admit to yourself that any of the ridiculous fiction found in an ancient text might be made-up nonsense could possibly make the whole illusion unravel and become too weird to accept. So in order to keep the illusion in tact you must accept the impossible, believe the absurd, and shrug off the immorality. You embrace it all in totally regardless of how repugnant or illogical.

Blind faith! Willful ignorance! Turning one’s brain off!

 

[crashtestdummy]

Someone earlier mentioned “turning your brain off”. I think that this is the epitome of that concept. Disregarding everything you know to be true about the world around you, and accepting absurdities as fact because you want so desperately to believe that your god is real. Fearing that to admit to yourself that any of the ridiculous fiction found in an ancient text might be made-up nonsense could possibly make the whole illusion unravel and become too weird to accept. So in order to keep the illusion in tact you must accept the impossible, believe the absurd, and shrug off the immorality. You embrace it all in totally regardless of how repugnant or illogical.

Blind faith! Willful ignorance! Turning one’s brain off!

Then proceeds to inform me I'm not logical.....
And I should respect this......Don't think so!

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

You didn't address anything I said. I am speaking to the reality of God...you, as most atheists always do, immediately rushes to condemn the character of God.

In general, atheists can't stay on point when discussing the REALITY of God...they are so quick to pivot to the CHARACTER of God...two completely different things.

I think that the character of your god comes up because it’s an important part of whether or not your good exists. Would your kind and loving god allow children to suffer? Would your kind and loving god give instructions on how to buy slaves, and how beating them is totally cool…unless the slaves dies? Would your kind and loving god suggest that women are no more than the property of men?

Once we examine the character issues I think we can determine that your god is neither kind nor loving. Or, more likely, is a fictional character made up in the imaginations of brutal and cruel ancient men. Therefore the way he is depicted is brutal and cruel. But he is made-up nonetheless. He does not exist.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Then proceeds to inform me I'm not logical.....
And I should respect this......Don't think so!

Whoever said you had to respect anything? Don't recall anyone saying that...

Here is the bottom line...if God were to do something that you deemed good enough to prove His existence, would you worship Him and want a relationship with Him? The answer, and I know this from talking with you in a different thread about God that was eventually deleted a while back, is no. So why does it matter to you then? It becomes completely irrelevant.

The sole purpose this thread has ended up serving is for atheists to demean Christians and present them as morally inferior for worshipping a God that atheists deem genocidal, slavery supporting, child cancer creating, etc.

The funny thing is atheism used to never go down the route of attacking God's character. They presented, according to them, discrepancies related to His existence. It has very quickly evolved (and I have no idea if this a new atheism wave, or whatever the term may be) to discrediting Christians because of shortcomings (as perceived by atheists) in God's character. You see this in every debate. Didn't use to always be this way.

 

[christophero]

It goes both ways. I see a lot of athiests being put down posts, leave the thread, dismissing athiest's questions for being simplistic or ignorant, its ridiculous that you continue to post here, etc. This isn't a Christian thread echo chamber. It asks a question. My answer is maybe. Not directed at you @mcnicKY91 I find your posts very reasonable.

 

[mcnicKY91]

It goes both ways. I see a lot of athiests being put down posts, leave the thread, dismissing athiest's questions for being simplistic or ignorant, its ridiculous that you continue to post here, etc. This isn't a Christian thread echo chamber. It asks a question. My answer is maybe. Not directed at you @mcnicKY91 I find your posts very reasonable.

I am sure Christians have done that in this thread, and I apologize on their behalf to the atheists in this thread who were the recipients of that behavior. As I stated in an earlier post, we are called, as Christians, to witness in a loving way. What you described would not be.

I am pointing out that in general, this thread is a microcosm of debate between theists and atheists in the modern day. Most atheist posts (and this thread is proof) consistently attack the character of God, which subsequently serves to makes believers look morally inferior.

This is precisely what you see modern atheists do in debates today. This was not a tactic before. Conversations solely centered around God's existence. They have since shifted to "How can you worship a God who support slavery, and rape, and is a genocidal maniac (none of which are biblically true)," which serves the sole purpose of denigrating Christians. That's all I am saying. Definitely a shift.

 

[christophero]

I'm kind of in the middle. I can see both sides point. I do take issue with things like flooding the entire world because they wouldn't worship him, but as you've said, I need to ask God. Part of me thinks he will say that's just a story dummy lol

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I do take issue with things like flooding the entire world because they wouldn't worship him

Is that what happened?

 

[christophero]

So what, the little kids were evil?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So what, the little kids were evil?

Don’t rewrite the story to make your protest. Stick with the text. Your opinion is your opinion, but the Bible does not say what your said.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Here is one theologian’s discussion about the flood:

Why did God flood the world?

For many today, the idea that the God of the Bible is good, beautiful, and loving crashes against moments in the Bible of violence, judgment, and bloodshed. Why did God flood the world?

bibleproject.com

 

[christophero]

So he didn't flood the earth?

 

[crashtestdummy]

Whoever said you had to respect anything? Don't recall anyone saying that...

Here is the bottom line...if God were to do something that you deemed good enough to prove His existence, would you worship Him and want a relationship with Him? The answer, and I know this from talking with you in a different thread about God that was eventually deleted a while back, is no. So why does it matter to you then? It becomes completely irrelevant.

The sole purpose this thread has ended up serving is for atheists to demean Christians and present them as morally inferior for worshipping a God that atheists deem genocidal, slavery supporting, child cancer creating, etc.

The funny thing is atheism used to never go down the route of attacking God's character. They presented, according to them, discrepancies related to His existence. It has very quickly evolved (and I have no idea if this a new atheism wave, or whatever the term may be) to discrediting Christians because of shortcomings (as perceived by atheists) in God's character. You see this in every debate. Didn't use to always be this way.

Why would any rational person worship a God as explained in the bible? Yes non believers used to be weary of ridicule/retaliation for speaking against religion. Thankfully, "Times they are a Changin"....much like Gods.
Was common and considered "normal" to believe in Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Apollo, Ra, Loki, Oden, Venus, and countless others. I'm sure you consider belief in these Gods pure nonsense now.
As the saying goes....I reject only one more God than you.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Don’t rewrite the story to make your protest. Stick with the text. Your opinion is your opinion, but the Bible does not say what your said.

Ok, your God supports slavery, genocide, murder, and misogyny. Stick with the text.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Ok, your God supports slavery, genocide, murder, and misogyny. Stick with the text.

And throughout this thread I’ve yet to see a xian take issue with any of these. I have seen lots of dodging and deflecting. “You’re taking that out of context”. “Those words don’t mean what you think they mean”. “Who are we to question?”. “You’ll have to take it up with god, not me”.

Just once I’d like to read a xian say, “Ya know, I hate the idea of slavery and it bothers me that there are instructions on slavery in this book”. Or, “I disagree with that book on how women are to be treated”. Or, “The fact the god murdered 99.9% of the population is quite troubling”.

I won’t hold my breath waiting in such a response.

 

[crashtestdummy]

And throughout this thread I’ve yet to see a xian take issue with any of these. I have seen lots of dodging and deflecting. “You’re taking that out of context”. “Those words don’t mean what you think they mean”. “Who are we to question?”. “You’ll have to take it up with god, not me”.

Just once I’d like to read a xian say, “Ya know, I hate the idea of slavery and it bothers me that there are instructions on slavery in this book”. Or, “I disagree with that book on how women are to be treated”. Or, “The fact the god murdered 99.9% of the population is quite troubling”.

I won’t hold my breath waiting in such a response.

Sad, sacrificing ones humanity to support religion.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

And throughout this thread I’ve yet to see a xian take issue with any of these. I have seen lots of dodging and deflecting. “You’re taking that out of context”. “Those words don’t mean what you think they mean”. “Who are we to question?”. “You’ll have to take it up with god, not me”.

Just once I’d like to read a xian say, “Ya know, I hate the idea of slavery and it bothers me that there are instructions on slavery in this book”. Or, “I disagree with that book on how women are to be treated”. Or, “The fact the god murdered 99.9% of the population is quite troubling”.

I won’t hold my breath waiting in such a response.

We have had sincere conversations in this thread and the one that preceded this one wherein you posted a lot of the exact same redundant stuff. You cannot have a sincere conversation. So, you bait and troll and disregard people’s attempts to engage. Then, you feign amazement that Christians tire of your schtick. Just stop lying about Christians attempts to explain these issues. Don’t be a liar, Ohio, it makes you look as petty as the Dummy.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Why would any rational person worship a God as explained in the bible? Yes non believers used to be weary of ridicule/retaliation for speaking against religion. Thankfully, "Times they are a Changin"....much like Gods.
Was common and considered "normal" to believe in Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Apollo, Ra, Loki, Oden, Venus, and countless others. I'm sure you consider belief in these Gods pure nonsense now.
As the saying goes....I reject only one more God than you.

Alright then, glad you have it figured out.

 

[crashtestdummy]

We have had sincere conversations in this thread and the one that preceded this one wherein you posted a lot of the exact same redundant stuff. You cannot have a sincere conversation. So, you bait and troll and disregard people’s attempts to engage. Then, you feign amazement that Christians tire of your schtick. Just stop lying about Christians attempts to explain these issues. Don’t be a liar, Ohio, it makes you look as petty as the Dummy.

I may very well be petty, but I ain't no hypocrite.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Alright then, glad you have it figured out.

Unlike relying on belief or faith, I do try....

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I may very well be petty, but I ain't no hypocrite.

Yeah, you’d be the one to decide that. Okay. LOL.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Sad, sacrificing ones humanity to support religion.

Sacrificing one’s humanity. I wonder if you could explain what that means to an atheist. How can an atheist distinguish his idea of “humanity” from anyone else’s other than to say it’s his opinion?

 

[crashtestdummy]

Sacrificing one’s humanity. I wonder if you could explain what that means to an atheist. How can an atheist distinguish his idea of “humanity” from anyone else’s other than to say it’s his opinion?

I could, but as you attempted to justify "dashing infants heads against rocks" in a previous thread. I'm afraid my attempts at explaining humanity would be futile.
You Sir, are the one that said you agreed with your God about this very issue. No surprise you can't understand the concept of humanity.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I could, but as you attempted to justify "dashing infants heads against rocks" in a previous thread. I'm afraid my attempts at explaining humanity would be futile.
You Sir, are the one that said you agreed with your God about this very issue. No surprise you can't understand the concept of humanity.

You’re precious. LOL!

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Why does God victim blame? Yikes.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

 

 

[mcnicKY91]

Why does God victim blame? Yikes.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

 

Wasn't this passage already discussed ad nauseum? Seems like you are recycling the same tired atheist talking points.

 

[SDC888]

Your problem with God is much more this distorted and concocted vision of who He is, than who He actually is.

 

[christophero]

I watched a movie called First Reformed last night. Has anyone seen it? Ethan Hawke plays a troubled minister. It's pretty dark but I enjoyed it.

 

[crashtestdummy]

You’re precious. LOL!

This is how you defend your position?😒

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Wasn't this passage already discussed ad nauseum? Seems like you are recycling the same tired atheist talking points.

Where was it discussed? Are you okay with victim blaming rape victims?

 

[christophero]

I think the issue is that people are coming at it from different perspectives, and that is understandable. If someone is an athiest/and/or doesn't think the Bible is the word of God, quoting scripture is not going to answer their question. That is an answer you would give a believer.