As usual, you don't really have a. response but you want to keep on posting, so you post a dull and vacuous answer void of any actual meaning.
POLL: Is there a God ??
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WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
You know that weirdness you feel if you’re at a renaissance festival, and everyone around you is in costume and speaking like they’re in England in the year 1500? And there’s just no way they’re going to break character? And you keep thinking to yourself, “you all know this is just make-believe, right?”. And it becomes frustrating as you know you’ll never be able to get any of them to act serious, not even for an instant?
That’s what it feels like to be a nonbeliever in a world full of theists.
That’s what it feels like to be a nonbeliever in a world full of theists.
I would advise you stop only hanging out in churches, because that’s the only way I could imagine you being surrounded by it. Go to a park!
I’m pretty sure all of zero minds have ever been changed when it comes to debates involving politics or religion.
It all comes down to whether one buys into the story. Some do. Some don’t.
But, you’re right, it’s entertaining as hell.
I was getting teary-eyed after reading his post. Then, I read your post and realized he will find a way.
On the contrary, there have been many believers who have left the faith in favor of atheism over the past few years...and there have been many atheists who have become believers over the past few years. Happens quite frequently.
Yeah, ok.
![[eyeroll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/rolleye/rolleye0011.r191677.gif "Eye roll [eyeroll]")
Tha'ts certainly incorrect.
They went out from us...
But not because of an online debate. I should’ve been more clear. Most people have other reasons than the opinions of strangers on the internet for deciding to leave/join/rejoin a religion.
For example, I went through 18 years of by-the-book Catholicism - baptism, confession, communion, confirmation. I became skeptical around age 12 or 13, was harshly punished for said skepticism to the point I just kind of went through the motions to keep the peace at home. I quit religion the day I moved out of my parents’ house 25 years ago. Nobody made that decision for me but me.
Cool. I stopped buying into the Christian story in seventh grade
Looks as if we’ve theologically canceled each other out, although I’m still more of an agnostic than an atheist, meaning my official stance on religion, is “I don’t know.”
One should try to be able to see beyond the limitations of their own experience, and be able to admit they may be wrong, irrespective of the medium of debate.
Every one of you to a tee complains about the failings of Christians around you.
The agnostics are just as firm in that belief as anyyone else is in any other. That too, that "it's unknowalbe," is a belief.
I stopped being an agnostic/atheist when I was in my mid-30s. Congrats to you for reading the Bible by the 7th grade. I think that makes you rare.
Very true. I think some reach the conclusion “humans aren’t capable yet of understanding” or some variation of, and outside of an amazing miracle it’s a difficult conclusion to change.
If I’m expected to see beyond the limitations of my own experience and admit I might be wrong, wouldn’t the same apply to believers? Y’all don’t know with 100 percent certainty either and all the quoted Bible verses in the world won’t change that. Many believers were indoctrinated as children just like I was and can't see beyond the limitations of their own experience.
In the end, if you’re right, things will suck for me. If I’m right, you spent your life talking down to strangers for no reason. I will admit I COULD be wrong. But so could you, and I’m not interested in reading passages from a book you believe to be the absolute true word of God from the one and only true God, while I view it as a collection of stories from primitive men seeking to understand the world around them.
I would argue “I don’t know” requires zero faith. It’s a noncommittal answer. It’s not a yes or no, but a maybe. I guess you could call it belief but it’s one I’ve admitted could be charged with convincing evidence.
The mast part about reading the Bible. I took that as you implying I actually hadn’t read it. If I misread or misconstrued your comment, I apologize.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Calling Atheism/agnosticism a belief is like calling bald a hairstyle.
I assumed you did read it, based on your comment, and think that is rare for someone that young. If that is not rare, then I am surprised.
Cutting to the chase, why is this such an important question? In a perfect world, this would be an interesting academic discussion, but so very sadly it's all gotten much deeper than that.
The Church throughout history, and ancient religions before the establishment of the Christian Church has always been at the forefront of blocking human knowledge and progress. Sickness was the result of offending God or the Gods, sin, evil spirits, demons, or take your pick. One would think that the great, Omniscient, God of the Hebrews might have said.."by the way, there are these things called germs" but ..no. Religion/the Church was equally antagonist toward scientific and social progress, threatening anyone that dared to disagree with it's narrow beliefs with torture, and maybe even death.
All that is bad enough. We can only wonder where we would be if the church hadn't been fighting our progress tooth and nail-but it gets worse.
I can argue until the cows come home with @Caveman cat or @SDC888, but at the end of the day, I don't have any real vested interest in "converting" them or anyone else to atheism. If they are happy with their beliefs and their projected home in heaven, then I am truly delirious for them. Since I don't have anything in a way of an afterlife to offer anyone, my only goal is for all of us to just live in peace and be as happy as we can be.
Christians, Muslims, Jews and those most enthusiastic members of most if not all major religions are a little different. Their respective religions demand that they not only proselytize to, but convert others. In and of itself this wouldn't be so bad, BUT believers are naturally infected with a certain undeniable chauvinism that inevitably creeps into their attitude and world view. Think of how arrogant it is to assume that only you or a small group of like minded folks have a corner on all the truths of the Universe. I could go on about this mindset, but it easily leads to trouble.
What concerns me most is Christians and Muslims in particular, show no propensity to settle for their own personal freedom and leave everyone else alone. They seem to driven to remake our social and political systems in accordance with their own narrow religious beliefs. I can see some of the usual suspects reply to this thread with "we don't care what you do" but of course that's not true at all. They care greatly. Just look at the great battles in our society right now. Why shouldn't gay folk have equal rights and protection under the law? Religion. Why are trans folk under constant attack? Religion. Why are we turning back 50 years of settled abortion law, and imposing draconian penalties for women that get raped or even need an abortion for their own mental or physical well being? You guessed it. Why are women deleting their menstrual trackers and other private information off their phones? Religion. Why is our Supreme Court tossing around the idea of making contraception against the law? Religion.
The thing about the ultra religious is they don't compromise and they don't stop. We are in the middle of the most frightening religious assault on our Constitutional freedoms in my lifetime. I would say the most optimistic projection for surviving this religious assault on our Constitution is only 50/50.
The Church throughout history, and ancient religions before the establishment of the Christian Church has always been at the forefront of blocking human knowledge and progress. Sickness was the result of offending God or the Gods, sin, evil spirits, demons, or take your pick. One would think that the great, Omniscient, God of the Hebrews might have said.."by the way, there are these things called germs" but ..no. Religion/the Church was equally antagonist toward scientific and social progress, threatening anyone that dared to disagree with it's narrow beliefs with torture, and maybe even death.
All that is bad enough. We can only wonder where we would be if the church hadn't been fighting our progress tooth and nail-but it gets worse.
I can argue until the cows come home with @Caveman cat or @SDC888, but at the end of the day, I don't have any real vested interest in "converting" them or anyone else to atheism. If they are happy with their beliefs and their projected home in heaven, then I am truly delirious for them. Since I don't have anything in a way of an afterlife to offer anyone, my only goal is for all of us to just live in peace and be as happy as we can be.
Christians, Muslims, Jews and those most enthusiastic members of most if not all major religions are a little different. Their respective religions demand that they not only proselytize to, but convert others. In and of itself this wouldn't be so bad, BUT believers are naturally infected with a certain undeniable chauvinism that inevitably creeps into their attitude and world view. Think of how arrogant it is to assume that only you or a small group of like minded folks have a corner on all the truths of the Universe. I could go on about this mindset, but it easily leads to trouble.
What concerns me most is Christians and Muslims in particular, show no propensity to settle for their own personal freedom and leave everyone else alone. They seem to driven to remake our social and political systems in accordance with their own narrow religious beliefs. I can see some of the usual suspects reply to this thread with "we don't care what you do" but of course that's not true at all. They care greatly. Just look at the great battles in our society right now. Why shouldn't gay folk have equal rights and protection under the law? Religion. Why are trans folk under constant attack? Religion. Why are we turning back 50 years of settled abortion law, and imposing draconian penalties for women that get raped or even need an abortion for their own mental or physical well being? You guessed it. Why are women deleting their menstrual trackers and other private information off their phones? Religion. Why is our Supreme Court tossing around the idea of making contraception against the law? Religion.
The thing about the ultra religious is they don't compromise and they don't stop. We are in the middle of the most frightening religious assault on our Constitutional freedoms in my lifetime. I would say the most optimistic projection for surviving this religious assault on our Constitution is only 50/50.
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I’m not talking down to you. I’m glad at least one of you (Ron Mehico) agnostics appreciated the point I was making. People’s beliefs become rigid, and the are reluctant to let them go or admit they were wrong.
I don’t admit I could be wrong; I admit I once WAS wrong. I believe without reservation or equivocation.
What I’m saying is your agnostic belief is still belief in precisely the same sense my belief is, it will function the same effectively in who you are and how you go about things in this life. If I’m wrong, which no I don’t admit the possibility but for the sake of discussion, I will have lost nothing. My life would’ve been changed for the better irrevocably in the here and now. Talking “down” to you would be akin to talking down to my former self. I’m the same person I was then, and it’s by luck (grace) I view this topic the way I do, not because of some experiment or argument.
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Most of that is simply your own (mis)interpretation.
You’re not under the threats you think you are.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Could not agree more. Wish there was a standing ovation emoji. You’ll have to settle for a thumbs up!
"God is love"
*child get's cancer
*child gets sexually abused
*spouse dies by drunk driver
*thousands die as planes hit the WTC.
*all wars
*...and more!
"Uh, God works in mysterious ways. We cannot comprehend Him"
*child get's cancer
*child gets sexually abused
*spouse dies by drunk driver
*thousands die as planes hit the WTC.
*all wars
*...and more!
"Uh, God works in mysterious ways. We cannot comprehend Him"
Did God create man or did man create God? The age old question. My guess is there is some kind of higher power, but not exactly the one from the Bible. Who knows. If I ever went full tilt into Christianity I'd be taking it entirely on faith because my gut tells me it is probably not true. I've tried; but I've never had any kind of epiphany people seem to have and my heart is not in it at the moment. Church is definitely a turn off; but I went a lot as a kid/teen. Me and my sister never attend church anymore. I'd much rather be out in nature on a Sunday than in a church singing hymns. Just not for me.
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Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. That is precisely, numerous times throughout the New Testament, what we are told will happen. Yet again another biblical prophecy that is spot on.
Thanks for the help.
If he predicted the Jets wining Super Bowl 3, now that would be impressive.
Then why didn't you make it? In fact, just like the Bible described in detail the destruction of Jerusalem or Tyre (which happened 100s of years later), I would like you to accurately prophesy something of that magnitude. Since it is so easy, you do it. Please describe in detail, to perfection, what will happen. How, where, when, and why.
Let's make it interesting,(again since anyone can do it and it is so easy), put your money where your mouth is...predict something of magnitude similar to a city being destroyed, to perfection. Again, since it is so easy to see in the future, you do it dude.
Is that all it takes for you to believe in God? That a city that has been routinely seiged since its creation was predicted to be destroyed at some point? Really dude? That's a big nothing burger to me.
What a weak response. Almost as bad as Ohio's ridiculous Dick Tracy analogy. Nice deflection dude. You just made the claim how easy it is to prophesy.
I am giving you the chance to prophecy correctly, just like the Bible did in perfection about Jerusalem being destroyed, Tyre being destroyed (I see you left that one out in your response), prophecy about numerous "believers" falling away from there faith...and that is the response you come up with? Somebody is scared.
I am literally giving you the chance to prove me wrong. And you won't take it. What a joke.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Pyongyang, North Korea, will be 90% destroyed in World War IV in the year 2197. It will be 37 nuclear warheads launched by Russia in a dispute over land and resources. My wager is $14,000,000,000,000.00.
Check back on this thread on January 1, 2198. If it hasn’t gone down just as I prophesied, you can collect.
Cool dude. So put your money where your mouth is. Write up a contract. And within that contract, please put a provision that either of our descendants will be able to collect on it if it does or doesn't come true. And if you don't have any, wherever all your money will go, my descendants will be able to take the money. A pretty simple exercise.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Hey, no fair. Did your imaginary friend have to draw up a legally binding contract? No! You fully accepted his prophecy as it was written. The same should apply to my prophecy.
Someone in the Far East will use nukes in the next 100 years. The world will become overpopulated and there will be a food shortage. Florida will be underwater in 200 years.
It's a poorly reasoned illusion from half-truths, but I'll piggyback off you two to make a point.
You know what's way worse than your Renaissance fair imagined reality? A real one where people like you abdicate your responsiblity to the next generation: sexualize them in school, tell them they can "transgender" (which is in all scientific reality mutilation before they can consent), and celebrate perverted, weak men getting off hrough drag kink while indoctrinating innocent children in "shows" and "story hours" in the name of "inclusiviity."
No, trust me, having that disgusting reality foisted upon us by you (general) is no comparison to the imagined narrative going on between your ears.
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