And one way to prove if there is a God would be if he came on down to Earth and showed himself in physical form. Just guessing but I would assume that a couple people posting their nonbelief in God in this thread may switch up their views if they saw God with their own eyes.
POLL: Is there a God ??
- Thread starter megablue
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WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Perhaps their families were given piles of gold and silver for their deaths.
I don't know, do you? Do you call them genocidal maniacs, moral monsters, baby killers, etc...?
Or is that only reserved for the God of the Bible?
If you truly think that about God, how could you not hate Him? Makes no sense...(but then again you say He isn't real, so you attack the character of a being that in your mind isn't real)...can't make this stuff up.
Bingo. He already did, His name is Jesus Christ (God in the flesh)...the most proven to be true figure in the history of the world. Who was tortured, brutally beaten, and crucified for your sins, my sins, and everybody's sins. He then resurrected on the third day, defeating death. Place your faith in that, enjoy the riches of a relationship with the living God, and look forward to spending eternity with Him.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
I use the genocidal sociopath description only to counter your constant assertions that god is somehow kind, loving and just. I believe that all gods and all religions are man-made nonsense. You, apparently, believe that 99% of all gods and religions are nonsense, and one god and one religion is real.
Actually, according to the book, your deity's morality does the changing, sort of negating your basic premise that morality is instilled by an all knowing, never changing, perfect creator. Through history, it seems to have changed at least a little for the better.
As far.as the New Testament is concerned, while it still endorses practices we presently consider to be evil (e.g. slavery) it seems to tone down the whole rape and murder bit. The OT is very much an "eye for an eye" where as the NT seems focused on forgiving your neighbor whatever they might do to you. On the whole, the NT seems to tilt a bit more to the love and forgiveness...except where eternity is concerned.
Again, provide the evidence for this conclusion. The Bible says God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Prove your point.
I don’t agree that the God of the OT is different than the God of the NT. I don’t see Jesus ever suggest that He or the Father are different from the God portrayed in the OT. He lived in accordance with scripture as God intended. Where the God of the OT was laying out principles for living at times, Jesus does explain the heart that God seeks for that behavior, rather than just strict compliance with the law. But, that can also be found in the OT.
But, between this thread and the one Megablue posted within that was eventually deleted, these issues and claims have been hashed and rehashed over and over again.
If one God and one Religion is real, then yes, by necessity, 99.999...% are nonsense.
They are indeed
The issue is that one of the biggest debates about Jesus is whether he was in fact God in the flesh or just some guy (to put it in the most elementary terms).
If God wanted to end the debate entirely, he could simply come down here and show everyone himself but instead we're stuck with asses like you trying to prove his existence with nothing but your own circular reasoning to back it up.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It appears to me that our differences of opinion is razor thin. Estimates are that there have been about 4,000 gods throughout mankind’s history.
You reject 3,999 gods
I reject 4,000 gods
Atheists and xians should be best of friends with such an incredibly small difference in opinion. Don’t you agree?
So, you believe the Bible to the extent he existed, but reject all other claims about him. That is not what you originally posted, but I am not sure how you justify that conclusion other than that is just what you choose to do.
The difference is not razor thin. It's a chasm from which you can't see the bottom or other side.
Another “good person” atheist calling people names. Mocking, name-calling, etc. are all evidence of the “good” atheists in this thread.
God is not debating His existence, but He could force you to believe in Him in any number of ways. He could also force you to be a compliant robot. He could.
It appears to me that He is desiring a relationship for eternity with those who want to be with Him. Forcing you to believe does not achieve that goal. Rather, He is giving you the choice. If you did not want the choice, take it up with Him.
It's one thing to know if someone existed. It's another to claim they rose from the dead, turned water to wine, cured blindness, etc.
Remember, free-will isn't a thing with an omniscient being. It's actually cruel then, to damn people to hell.
He's right, though. We believe 4,000 don't exist, you believe 3,999 do not exist. We are more close than you think.
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Oh! Sorry to know you think of it that way.
So you’re not interested in having an atheist for a best friend? You couldn’t overlook your minor differences, but instead relish the vastness of common ground, and get along swimmingly?
If you have the time (I was able to read through in about 10 min), and it will be well spent, read the following article. It speaks to the historocity of Jesus' crucifixion, burial, and resurrection. The article sites information from well known skeptics and believers alike. You may be surprised to see what these skeptical historical scholars conclude...
The Historical Evidence for the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus - Evidence for Easter (Part 3) - Renew
What is the historical evidence for these elements? The disciples were in the best position of anyone to know.
renew.org
Never claimed to be a good person nor am I an atheist. I guess I'm agnostic if I was forced to label it. You're saying that God could do all of these things with no evidence to back up how he has the power to do so. I would gladly accept eternity with God if any verifiable evidence was given to me to suggest that God exists. Popping out of the clouds and doing things that theoretically only God could do isn't forcing anyone to believe, it's giving nonbelievers a reason to believe. If you're Christian then you should want as many people to believe as possible, at least that's what I was told when I was raised in the church.
I feel like if he made us all and loved us, then wouldn't he want to do all that he has the power to do to keep us from ending up in hell for all eternity. All of the "good" parents that I know want their children to stay away from ever-burning fire. God allows his children to end up in hell even though he has all of the power to keep that from happening, that's not love to me.
LOL this exact same post has been posted a number of times by “different” posters.
If you don’t believe in the Creator of the universe who is not bound by his creation and who designed you, I guess you can question His power. But, your question presupposed His existence by saying what He could do to satisfy you.
Maybe you would. But, you reject all of the evidence provided. So, maybe not. I don’t know.
Not true. If God revealed His face to you, you would crumble to your knees and would be without a choice.
Definitely. Would love if we all accepted our saving King. And, will be thrilled to spend eternity with you.
He wants your love. Not your involuntary submission. He truly has given you free will, even if you deny it. You choose Him or you choose something else. You choose what you worship.
God grieves the bad choices of people in scripture. But, if you forced your children to love you, you would never know if they love you. He wants your sincere love.
It’s not, but it is almost word for word the same. Cut and paste atheists.
No, you didn't get the point. We are no where near as close as you think.
I have no problem with people in general, no, no matter what their beliefs. I sincerely hope they come to the knowledge of the Truth at some point, thoe sooner the better. That's pretty much it.
If he did that, the main thing that would change is the conversation from "Is God real" to "Should we follow him?" Granted, that's a pretty large question but God would still have his followers and non-followers. He would get a significant boost in people that believe that he exists, to say the least, but not necessarily the same boost in people that decide to follow Christianity.
There is an unconditional love that comes with being a parent/child. Children are allowed to make their own choices but at the end of the day, as a parent, you're responsible for your children and their well-being. Part of being a good parent is showing up when your kids are in need. If I was never around to take care of my child and said, "I'm with you in spirit even though you'll never be able to physically see me," I'm sure they would grow up to resent me at least a bit.
"Roman historians Pliny and Tacitus also wrote about Jesus Christ about 20 years after Josephus’s book. The “Annals” by Tacitus from AD 115 mentioned the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate executing Jesus, alluding to crucifixion, and placed that event within the timeframe that agrees with Christian gospels." The text goes on below.
https://bigthink.com/thinking/was-jesus-real/
Again, though, in a historical aspect. No magic to be found.
Why does God damn isolated tribes of people to hell? Is it their fault for not knowing?
You would be surprised. Oftentimes the sects of Christianity are hostile to other sects, much less nonbelievers.
I was raised Catholic. My wife was raised extremely rural southern Baptist. I went to church with her a few times when we were dating. It was awful. Sermons sound like wrestling promos and it’s more fear and theatrics than substance. Same messgae every week: Magic creek or hell.
There were several older members of her extended family that refused to attend our wedding and pretty much quit speaking to us (her) entirely because she didn’t marry inside her religion and and my Catholic ritual baptism didn’t transfer or something.
Skip forward 20 years, and I’m an agnostic teetering on atheism and she’s a militant atheist who would argue her religious upbringing was borderline abusive because they just got yelled at about hell for several hours a week. Never messages of god’s love. Just hell. All hell. All the time. Hell.
Several of those relatives who condemned our marriage are now dead. We went to zero of their funerals because if they couldn’t be good to us while they were alive, why should we give a shit if they died.
This was also another clue for me that religion is likely bullshit. We were all seemingly “same team” but minor theological differences apparently made us enemies to the point blood relatives shunned us from the family.
The sooner the better because your god will burn them in hellfire for the crime of being a skeptic. The pure opposite of love.
People as heinous as Hitler can ask for forgiveness and go to heaven while people who are not Christian, who spend their whole lives helping people, can be bound to torture is a leap in logic.
The question of this thread is “does God exist?” That is not God’s question for you. He knows He exists. He wants to know if you will make him king in your life.
God incarnate died on the cross for you. He showed up and took your sin to the cross so you could experience our holy father. There is no greater love.
Read scripture. You act as if God is a dude on your street. He does not show his face to people. When people make contact with Him, they don’t survive the event. He is an unthinkable power and yet a whisper in the wind. I know physical beings want to comprehend an all powerful spirit God. Sorry.
Well, you overlook the quote from Josephus, for some reason.I am aware of the secondary sources of proof for Jesus. I just find it odd you believe a couple of ancient writers who mention him, but not others, who wrote closer to the actual time of Jesus. Seems your bias directs your choices. He is also mentioned in the Koran. Do you believe that?
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