POLL: Is there a God ??

[mcnicKY91]

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

what kind of god thinks to themselves, "yeah, this sounds great."

As a god I wouldn't condone a rapist marrying his victim. That's just evil.

I picture you googling "bad Bible verses," then rushing to this thread to post them...without even trying to understand the passage within its context. But then again, that has been basically every atheist in this thread haha.

Do yourself a literary service, just like you would with any other type of literary work, and read everything within its context. Will do wonders for you.

 

[MatteoV25]

I picture you googling "bad Bible verses," then rushing to this thread to post them...without even trying to understand the passage within its context. But then again, that has been basically every atheist in this thread haha.

Do yourself a literary service, just like you would with any other type of literary work, and read everything within its context. Will do wonders for you.

You've read the Bible, what is the context that justifies this verse?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

what kind of god thinks to themselves, "yeah, this sounds great."

As a god I wouldn't condone a rapist marrying his victim. That's just evil.

More proof that the buybull is the word of brutal, misogynistic men. Not the word of a loving and caring god.

 

[mcnicKY91]

You've read the Bible, what is the context that justifies this verse?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Rape - Apologetics Press

One prevalent idea in skeptical circles is that the God of the Old Testament is cruel and condones practices that are immoral. Each example that skeptics have provided to prove this thesis, however, has been shown to be false. We see time and again that the God of the Old Testament is the same...

apologeticspress.org

 

[MatteoV25]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Rape - Apologetics Press

One prevalent idea in skeptical circles is that the God of the Old Testament is cruel and condones practices that are immoral. Each example that skeptics have provided to prove this thesis, however, has been shown to be false. We see time and again that the God of the Old Testament is the same...

apologeticspress.org

So because "sometimes" the Hebrew word that was originally used can be translated as not meaning rape then everything is perfectly fine with that verse? That's ludicrous. Read a couple verses before where it talks about stoning people who engage in infidelity. Do you think that God was correct in allowing that to be in his good book? This is just picking and choosing the worst of what is in the Bible but at the same time, what part of these verses would be acceptable if applied in normal life?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Rape - Apologetics Press

One prevalent idea in skeptical circles is that the God of the Old Testament is cruel and condones practices that are immoral. Each example that skeptics have provided to prove this thesis, however, has been shown to be false. We see time and again that the God of the Old Testament is the same...

apologeticspress.org

Some serious language gymnastics going on here to make xians feel better about the horrible crap they must defend.

From the Apologetic Press, no less. LOL

 

[MidseasonTweak]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Rape - Apologetics Press

One prevalent idea in skeptical circles is that the God of the Old Testament is cruel and condones practices that are immoral. Each example that skeptics have provided to prove this thesis, however, has been shown to be false. We see time and again that the God of the Old Testament is the same...

apologeticspress.org

How convenient. When the Bible says a vile thing, it's out of context because of translations.

When the Bible talks about forgiveness and love, it isn't questioned and taken at face value - no mistranslations!

Come. On. Dude.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So because "sometimes" the Hebrew word that was originally used can be translated as not meaning rape then everything is perfectly fine with that verse? That's ludicrous. Read a couple verses before where it talks about stoning people who engage in infidelity. Do you think that God was correct in allowing that to be in his good book? This is just picking and choosing the worst of what is in the Bible but at the same time, what part of these verses would be acceptable if applied in normal life?

Some serious language gymnastics going on here to make xians feel better about the horrible crap they must defend.

From the Apologetic Press, no less. LOL

Nothing ludicrous at all dude. Again, you need to read it in context. Verses 25-27 speak to rape, 28-29 do not.

Laugh all you want, the response they gave is the exact response I would give, so the source is irrelevant. Much easier to link than type all out in a post.

 

[mcnicKY91]

How convenient. When the Bible says a vile thing, it's out of context because of translations.

When the Bible talks about forgiveness and love, it isn't questioned and taken at face value - no mistranslations!

Come. On. Dude.

Weak response. Read in context. I know that is a tough concept for atheists, but it is something learned in your elementary days.

 

[roguemocha]

I’ll end this debate now.

I am God.

Trust.

Send me your wives and money and I’ll allow you all to heaven*.

*Venmo $500 to hold your spot.

 

[BMoore2]

I’ve already spelled a long list of reasons why. And this is a discussion about whether or not gods exists. It is my opinion that they do not.

And just how is it unhealthy? Because I disagree with you?

you have expressed that opinion a million times. It’s unhealthy because you are taking out your dislike of religion on random people you’ve never met. You’re essentially bullying people with whom you disagree, and you come off as a jerk. That’s not healthy for anyone.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

I picture you googling "bad Bible verses," then rushing to this thread to post them...without even trying to understand the passage within its context. But then again, that has been basically every atheist in this thread haha.

Do yourself a literary service, just like you would with any other type of literary work, and read everything within its context. Will do wonders for you.

Wonder what context best works for you to justify kidnapping and raping young virgins two at a time? You have.a useful context for slavery? How about sacrificing and burning alive people of different religious beliefs? For your information these verses trouble me LONG before there was internet or Google.

I am always in awe of arguing with those of strong religious beliefs. When you point out what the Bible actually says, they say "look at the context". When you try to discuss an issue in context, they say.."but look at what the Bible actually says".

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The OT contains cultural laws, moral laws, and temple laws. To pretend the cultural laws express the morality of God is to deny the very scripture cited. Jesus tells us that God permitted cultural acts that did not express his heart and design because of the hardness of the human heart.

Dramatic cultural changes took place because of these various laws, but Jesus later, even for the mora laws, would challenge people to go beyond the technical compliance to seek the true heart and meaning behind the law. This was not an overnight transformation for mankind.

Jesus dramatically changed the cultural perception of women. It took centuries for the culture to catch up to Jesus. That does not mean that God’s perspective of women changed. It rather, more likely, means that this transformation of the heart is not a quick process.

I realize that the “if I were God” posters believe they would have had a better plan. Two thoughts on that. First, it literally is the story of scripture (man believing his way is better). Second, people act as if thousands of years is a long time for a timeless God.

The Bible is the story of God saving us from ourselves. People who don’t believe in God complaining about how God went about the process of restoring us is an interesting atheist take and one I never contemplated as an atheist or agnostic. To me, the disbelief in a God was the answer. The evangelical atheism repeated in this thread is nothing short of a religion.

 

[MatteoV25]

The OT contains cultural laws, moral laws, and temple laws. To pretend the cultural laws express the morality of God is to deny the very scripture cited. Jesus tells us that God permitted cultural acts that did not express his heart and design because of the hardness of the human heart.

Dramatic cultural changes took place because of these various laws, but Jesus later, even for the mora laws, would challenge people to go beyond the technical compliance to seek the true heart and meaning behind the law. This was not an overnight transformation for mankind.

Jesus dramatically changed the cultural perception of women. It took centuries for the culture to catch up to Jesus. That does not mean that God’s perspective of women changed. It rather, more likely, means that this transformation of the heart is not a quick process.

I realize that the “if I were God” posters believe they would have had a better plan. Two thoughts on that. First, it literally is the story of scripture (man believing his way is better). Second, people act as if thousands of years is a long time for a timeless God.

The Bible is the story of God saving us from ourselves. People who don’t believe in God complaining about how God went about the process of restoring us is an interesting atheist take and one I never contemplated as an atheist or agnostic. To me, the disbelief in a God was the answer. The evangelical atheism repeated in this thread is nothing short of a religion.

Never heard back from you about how God isn't sinful yet is responsible for the murder of countless lives...

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Never heard back from you about how God isn't sinful yet is responsible for the murder of countless lives...

Thoughtful response.

I don’t have to feed your religion because you snap a finger. Lol

God is not sinful. I would encourage you to read the whole and not just selected parts. It is clear from this thread that attempting to spoon feed answers to people who religiously believe they have the answers is not a fruitful process.

Atheists cannot justify the the value of a human life with their non-belief. They may argue otherwise, but it’s not atheism but emotionalism upon which they rely. Atheism has no foundation for complaining about death. Whether you live a few seconds or 100 years is irrelevant. The value on life comes from belief in an ultimate truth that life is valuable. Atheism cannot provide that truth.

Interestingly, this is where God and atheism are similar. Atheist belief places no value on life. The God who judges is arbiter of the value of life. For example, when the Amelakites were almost all wiped out by Saul’s army, Israel rejoiced with the spoils of war, against God’s will. This suggests God took no pleasure in the act of war, but wanted to put an end to an evil. To the point. God will judge. Not just us, but the Amelakites. If Amelakite children are part of God’s eternal plan, their death in scripture holds what meaning to you?

Whether atheist or God, the truth known is that we are nothing but a snap of a finger on the timeline. It is the eternal that matters, regardless of your belief. God will judge. He will do so as a Holy God.

You don’t have to believe that. Thank Him for that.

 

[MatteoV25]

Thoughtful response.

I don’t have to feed your religion because you snap a finger. Lol

God is not sinful. I would encourage you to read the whole and not just selected parts. It is clear from this thread that attempting to spoon feed answers to people who religiously believe they have the answers is not a fruitful process.

Atheists cannot justify the the value of a human life with their non-belief. They may argue otherwise, but it’s not atheism but emotionalism upon which they rely. Atheism has no foundation for complaining about death. Whether you live a few seconds or 100 years is irrelevant. The value on life comes from belief in an ultimate truth that life is valuable. Atheism cannot provide that truth.

Interestingly, this is where God and atheism are similar. Atheist belief places no value on life. The God who judges is arbiter of the value of life. For example, when the Amelakites were almost all wiped out by Saul’s army, Israel rejoiced with the spoils of war, against God’s will. This suggests God took no pleasure in the act of war, but wanted to put an end to an evil. To the point. God will judge. Not just us, but the Amelakites. If Amelakite children are part of God’s eternal plan, their death in scripture holds what meaning to you?

Whether atheist or God, the truth known is that we are nothing but a snap of a finger on the timeline. It is the eternal that matters, regardless of your belief. God will judge. He will do so as a Holy God.

You don’t have to believe that. Thank Him for that.

I appreciate your drawn out response but God is in fact sinful because murder is a sin and God murdered a good plenty of people. It is plainly written out in your book of worship, are you telling me that you don't how to read or do you just prefer to not acknowledge the parts of the Bible that you don't like?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I appreciate your drawn out response but God is in fact sinful because murder is a sin and God murdered a good plenty of people. It is plainly written out in your book of worship, are you telling me that you don't how to read or do you just prefer to not acknowledge the parts of the Bible that you don't like?

God does not murder, despite your claim. Death is the result of our rebellion. God is the judge. For you, an assumed atheist, death is a natural consequence that ends you, period. For God, death is a grieved truth that we chose over Him. But, He judges for eternity. It’s not murder.

Murder is when you who have no power to judge good and evil for eternity take a life made in the image of the living God.

 

[MatteoV25]

God does not murder, despite your claim. Death is the result of our rebellion. God is the judge. For you, an assumed atheist, death is a natural consequence that ends you, period. For God, death is a grieved truth that we chose over Him. But, He judges for eternity. It’s not murder.

Murder is when you who have no power to judge good and evil for eternity take a life made in the image of the living God.

Not that anyone really cares but I'm agnostic, there's a difference. Your argument is simply nonsense. If you die and God is responsible for that death, then that is the textbook definition of murder. Let's all be honest with ourselves here. Did all of the firstborn children in Egypt do something against God that gave God a reason to specifically murder them? No, it was some plague to punish a Pharaoh. We're not talking about eternity, on Earth that is murder. You basically said that when humans do the exact same thing that God does then it's murder but it's alright if God does it. That's just a pile of crap.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Wonder what context best works for you to justify kidnapping and raping young virgins two at a time? You have.a useful context for slavery? How about sacrificing and burning alive people of different religious beliefs? For your information these verses trouble me LONG before there was internet or Google.

I am always in awe of arguing with those of strong religious beliefs. When you point out what the Bible actually says, they say "look at the context". When you try to discuss an issue in context, they say.."but look at what the Bible actually says".

Except you (and the other atheists in this thread) are not looking at the context of handpicked verses in good faith. The overwhelmingly majority of this thread is proof. And then when I do provide context, I am laughed at or told I am ludicrous. You guys can't have it both ways.

I don't have the time to go through every single gripe that atheists have about God.

If you are concerned about slavery in the Bible, I can provide you hundreds of links to read at your leisure. But let's be honest, your mind is already made up, and nothing will change your view, especially not any Christian theologian article/anonymous message board poster.

And again, why is every atheist concerned about their perceived character flaws of a God they say doesn't exist? Makes no logical sense. As I have said a million times in this thread (and has been proven as such), that tactic serves to make Christians look morally inferior. 100% of the time. Such a weird approach.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Not that anyone really cares but I'm agnostic, there's a difference. Your argument is simply nonsense. If you die and God is responsible for that death, then that is the textbook definition of murder. Let's all be honest with ourselves here. Did all of the firstborn children in Egypt do something against God that gave God a reason to specifically murder them? No, it was some plague to punish a Pharaoh. We're not talking about eternity, on Earth that is murder. You basically said that when humans do the exact same thing that God does then it's murder but it's alright if God does it. That's just a pile of crap.

God created life. He can choose to end a life when He sees fit. That is the reality.

Additionally, we are finite. God is infinite. He sees/knows the entire picture. We cannot see the entire tapestry. I know that God is good and righteous, and if He chooses to end my life, or anyone else's so be it. Maybe that would be alarming to me if I was living for this life (as that is all atheists/agnostics live for), but I am not. I am living to spend eternity with my Savior.

 

[MatteoV25]

God created life. He can choose to end a life when He sees fit. That is the reality.

Additionally, we are finite. God is infinite. He sees/knows the entire picture. We cannot see the entire tapestry. I know that God is good and righteous, and if He chooses to end my life, or anyone else's so be it. Maybe that would be alarming to me if I was living for this life (as that is all atheists/agnostics live for), but I am not. I am living to spend eternity with my Savior.

Right, if he chooses to end your life then, by definition, that is God choosing to murder you. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Right, if he chooses to end your life then, by definition, that is God choosing to murder you. Thanks for clearing that up.

Nah...in fact, Caveman summed it up to perfection. He did a nice job. I would re-read his post. Or I can provide you many links on the topic.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Not that anyone really cares but I'm agnostic, there's a difference. Your argument is simply nonsense. If you die and God is responsible for that death, then that is the textbook definition of murder. Let's all be honest with ourselves here. Did all of the firstborn children in Egypt do something against God that gave God a reason to specifically murder them? No, it was some plague to punish a Pharaoh. We're not talking about eternity, on Earth that is murder. You basically said that when humans do the exact same thing that God does then it's murder but it's alright if God does it. That's just a pile of crap.

You pretend repeatedly to want my answer, but you only want your answer. The crap is you pretending to ask a question when you really just want to make a statement. Just make your statement.

If God judges the first born of Egypt as innocent and they are resurrected with Him in eternity even you cannot call that murder. God has that power. You and I do not.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

you have expressed that opinion a million times. It’s unhealthy because you are taking out your dislike of religion on random people you’ve never met. You’re essentially bullying people with whom you disagree, and you come off as a jerk. That’s not healthy for anyone.

This is a discussion forum, and I’m participating in the discussion. It’s entertainment. You obviously don’t like my opinions, but I can’t do anything about that.

Would you rather this become an echo chamber where everyone agreed? The first response would be the answer YES, followed by a bunch of amen responses and pray hand emojis. Some fun!

 

[MatteoV25]

Nah...in fact, Caveman summed it up to perfection. He did a nice job. I would re-read his post. Or I can provide you many links on the topic.

You pretend repeatedly to want my answer, but you only want your answer. The crap is you pretending to ask a question when you really just want to make a statement. Just make your statement.

If God judges the first born of Egypt as innocent and they are resurrected with Him in eternity even you cannot call that murder. God has that power. You and I do not.

I do not care about some afterlife that you all choose to believe in. Where are we all currently living right now? On planet Earth, if you purposely end someone else's life, that is murder. I would appreciate if we could acknowledge at least a sense of reality right now and see that God deciding to end your Earthly life or whatever you want to call it, is God deciding to murder you. Plain and simple. Since God decides to murder you, and based on the Bible, murder is a sin, then God is sinful. You all will never acknowledge that or the many other things that are negative about your God but that is as cut and dry as it can get.

 

[christophero]

God created life therefore he can take it? That is an interesting justification for a God whose rule number one is "though shall not kill." (#6 but it's a biggie) I can respect the biblical position but surely you can see how that would strike people as hypocritical. These are the kinds of things that have bothered me the more I think about it. And I don't think that is a simplistic position; I've asked many people (including clergy) this question and never really gotten a satisfactory answer. Kind of like a parent saying do as I say not as I do.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I do not care about some afterlife that you all choose to believe in. Where are we all currently living right now? On planet Earth, if you purposely end someone else's life, that is murder. I would appreciate if we could acknowledge at least a sense of reality right now and see that God deciding to end your Earthly life or whatever you want to call it, is God deciding to murder you. Plain and simple. Since God decides to murder you, and based on the Bible, murder is a sin, then God is sinful. You all will never acknowledge that or the many other things that are negative about your God but that is as cut and dry as it can get.

I say this to all my atheist/agnostic friends (as well as those in this thread), take it up with God.

You are getting irritated with the wrong people. You have asked why we believe what we do, namely why God can take somebody's life and it not be murder, and you don't like the response. Our responses will never change based upon what Scripture says. If you don't like that, take it up with God. There is nothing else we can do for you. I can provide link after link explaining why God wiped out humanity (minus Noah's family), why he destroyed the Canaanites, why slavery existed in the Bible, etc.

It won't matter though dude. So like I said, instead of getting irritated by those who are actually taking time out of their busy days to explain contextually why they believe what they believe, talk to God.

And if you say he doesn't exist, or are an agnostic, then why do you care so much? If God doesn't exist, then why complain about the character of someone who you say doesn't exist?

 

[MatteoV25]

I say this to all my atheist/agnostic friends (as well as those in this thread), take it up with God.

You are getting irritated with the wrong people. You have asked why we believe what we do, namely why God can take somebody's life and it not be murder, and you don't like the response. Our responses will never change based upon what Scripture says. If you don't like that, take it up with God. There is nothing else we can do for you. I can provide link after link explaining why God wiped out humanity (minus Noah's family), why he destroyed the Canaanites, why slavery existed in the Bible, etc.

It won't matter though dude. So like I said, instead of getting irritated by those who are actually taking time out of their busy days to explain contextually why they believe what they believe, talk to God.

And if you say he doesn't exist, or are an agnostic, then why do you care so much? If God doesn't exist, then why complain about the character of someone who you say doesn't exist?

Because people start wars over their religious beliefs. They pass laws based on their beliefs that directly impact the lives of other people in a negative way. I'm fine if someone has their beliefs and keeps it to themselves but when you start using your beliefs as a reason to encroach on the lives of people who don't want to deal with that, that's where I have a problem. Not to say that you specifically are doing that, I'm sure you're a swell person, but just in general, it is widely known that Evangelicals are the ones that make their voices heard the loudest when it comes to how they tend to vote and what laws they want passed.

 

[christophero]

They also knock on your door on your day off lol. I'm actually nice to these people I just ask for a pamphlet.

 

[Ron Mehico]

It seems to me the atheists/agnostics think religious folk are claiming to know anything, when I don’t think they’re claiming they do. They happened to read the Bible/whatever holy book, believed in it, and thought it was the word of god. Everything else after that is them just trying to make sense of it, without claiming to fully understand it (even though they try to explain it sometimes as such is human nature).

Same with atheists/agnostics. They read or were exposed to whatever holy book, it made no sense to them, so they don’t believe it. They as well are not claiming to know the purpose of anything either.

So I think it’s good to talk about stuff but asking people the same thing over and over again that admit they don’t know wanting them to tell you definitively the reason for things they’ve admitted to not understanding seems pointless and unhinged.

 

[SDC888]

It seems to me the atheists/agnostics think religious folk are claiming to know anything, when I don’t think they’re claiming they do. They happened to read the Bible/whatever holy book, believed in it, and thought it was the word of god. Everything else after that is them just trying to make sense of it, without claiming to fully understand it (even though they try to explain it sometimes as such is human nature).

Same with atheists/agnostics. They read or were exposed to whatever holy book, it made no sense to them, so they don’t believe it. They as well are not claiming to know the purpose of anything either.

So I think it’s good to talk about stuff but asking people the same thing over and over again that admit they don’t know wanting them to tell you definitively the reason for things they’ve admitted to not understanding seems pointless and unhinged.

Not really, though I do agree this is unhinged.

The argument here today and yesterday is easily answered: the earlier objections about rape are an outright lie through distortion and God isn't "murdering." The wages of sin is death and you will reap what you've sown.

Other religions have even intuited that by accident, like the concept of karma. Atheist objections on that are similarly a form of self-righteousness, what ought to be, according to their own limited perspectives and experiences.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I say this to all my atheist/agnostic friends (as well as those in this thread), take it up with God.

You are getting irritated with the wrong people. You have asked why we believe what we do, namely why God can take somebody's life and it not be murder, and you don't like the response. Our responses will never change based upon what Scripture says. If you don't like that, take it up with God. There is nothing else we can do for you. I can provide link after link explaining why God wiped out humanity (minus Noah's family), why he destroyed the Canaanites, why slavery existed in the Bible, etc.

It won't matter though dude. So like I said, instead of getting irritated by those who are actually taking time out of their busy days to explain contextually why they believe what they believe, talk to God.

And if you say he doesn't exist, or are an agnostic, then why do you care so much? If God doesn't exist, then why complain about the character of someone who you say doesn't exist?

Interesting answer. So you just surrender your ability to reason and to differentiate right from wrong? Simply because it’s written in some ancient text, and you won’t disagree with anything in that text?

Based on that I will always happily side with anti-theists every time. We see something written that’s objectionable or abhorrent, we call it out. Can’t imagine just shrugging and saying “oh well. It’s in the book, so it must be A-ok!”.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Because people start wars over their religious beliefs. They pass laws based on their beliefs that directly impact the lives of other people in a negative way. I'm fine if someone has their beliefs and keeps it to themselves but when you start using your beliefs as a reason to encroach on the lives of people who don't want to deal with that, that's where I have a problem. Not to say that you specifically are doing that, I'm sure you're a swell person, but just in general, it is widely known that Evangelicals are the ones that make their voices heard the loudest when it comes to how they tend to vote and what laws they want passed.

What religious wars are genuine evangelical believers starting? How has the belief of any genuine believers effected you negatively? How are we encroaching on your life?

I am an evangelical, go to church every Sunday, small group on Thurs, drop my kids off at youth ministry on Wed nights. Throughout the other three days of the week, I don't even come into contact with any other believers. Don't hear from them. They ain't coming to my door (that is what Jehovah Witnesses do, I have never heard of evangelicals going door to door in that manner...only JWs and those pesky local politicians seeking your vote). They aren't stopping me on the street and bothering me.

Where are you experiencing this to where your life is being encroached upon?

 

[mcnicKY91]

Interesting answer. So you just surrender your ability to reason and to differentiate right from wrong? Simply because it’s written in some ancient text, and you won’t disagree with anything in that text?

Based on that I will always happily side with anti-theists every time. We see something written that’s objectionable or abhorrent, we call it out. Can’t imagine just shrugging and saying “oh well. It’s in the book, so it must be A-ok!”.

You do all readers in this thread a great disservice by constantly twisting and perverting what is being said. And I am not the only one who has called you out on that.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Not really, though I do agree this is unhinged.

The argument here today and yesterday is easily answered: the earlier objections about rape are an outright lie through distortion and God isn't "murdering." The wages of sin is death and you will reap what you've sown.

Other religions have even intuited that by accident, like the concept of karma. Atheist objections on that are similarly a form of self-righteousness, what ought to be, according to their own limited perspectives and experiences.

Agree to disagree

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I do not care about some afterlife that you all choose to believe in. Where are we all currently living right now? On planet Earth, if you purposely end someone else's life, that is murder. I would appreciate if we could acknowledge at least a sense of reality right now and see that God deciding to end your Earthly life or whatever you want to call it, is God deciding to murder you. Plain and simple. Since God decides to murder you, and based on the Bible, murder is a sin, then God is sinful. You all will never acknowledge that or the many other things that are negative about your God but that is as cut and dry as it can get.

Where will resurrection take place? Someplace else? No. Here, when heaven and earth are united. I am not sure why we must acknowledge something we believe is mistaken.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

You do all readers in this thread a great disservice by constantly twisting and perverting what is being said. And I am not the only one who has called you out on that.

And you haven’t seen theists twisting what is said? Direct quotes from your favorite ancient fairy tales which are how-to instructions on slavery, why men should pay the father of a rape victim then marry her, and countless acts of mass murder by the invisible man in the sky. And not once has a theist said, “you know, that really bothers me. It’s just not right.”. Nope. It’s always “taken out of context”, “those words don’t mean what you think they mean”, or “take it up with the invisible man”.

I can understand following an ideology. But don’t lose your humanity in the process.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Because people start wars over their religious beliefs. They pass laws based on their beliefs that directly impact the lives of other people in a negative way. I'm fine if someone has their beliefs and keeps it to themselves but when you start using your beliefs as a reason to encroach on the lives of people who don't want to deal with that, that's where I have a problem. Not to say that you specifically are doing that, I'm sure you're a swell person, but just in general, it is widely known that Evangelicals are the ones that make their voices heard the loudest when it comes to how they tend to vote and what laws they want passed.

I will let others believe that you are so argumentative because you want to stop wars.

Most laws are premised upon belief. We form our laws premised upon elections and common interests.

🤦‍♂️

 

[MatteoV25]

What religious wars are genuine evangelical believers starting? How has the belief of any genuine believers effected you negatively? How are we encroaching on your life?

I am an evangelical, go to church every Sunday, small group on Thurs, drop my kids off at youth ministry on Wed nights. Throughout the other three days of the week, I don't even come into contact with any other believers. Don't hear from them. They ain't coming to my door (that is what Jehovah Witnesses do, I have never heard of evangelicals going door to door in that manner...only JWs and those pesky local politicians seeking your vote). They aren't stopping me on the street and bothering me.

Where are you experiencing this to where your life is being encroached upon?

You can find plenty of wars were the central argument was based on religion.

Also, your anecdote doesn't apply to the rest of us. In the state of Kentucky, to say that our elected officials aren't applying their religious beliefs to EVERY law that they vote on would be a very incorrect statement.

 

[MatteoV25]

I will let others believe that you are so argumentative because you want to stop wars.

Most laws are premised upon belief. We form our laws premised upon elections and common interests.

🤦‍♂️

And I'd like to believe that the separation of church and state exists at least a little bit in this country.