POLITICAL THREAD

[rqarnold]

According to this link 'some' European countries having more millionaires per capita is just one, and it is the one you named. The US comes in 3rd behind Hong Kong which China is slowly destroying.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/262687/countries-with-the-highest-rate-of-millionaires/

I probably wouldn't have a big problem with free college education if every major college campus hadn't received multibillion dollar facelifts over the last couple decades. But if you want to live in dorms that are equivalent to 4-star hotels and go to class in buildings with all the latest technology then prepare to have a little debt when you graduate.

When states were funding their schools at 90% they made a conscious effort to hold down expenses. When they began to cut back funding they relinquished much of that control. As they began to raise tuition, more is expected. It’s a vicious cycle of the dog chasing its tail. If you’re paying more, you want more for your money.

And when you say “when you choose...”, who made that choice? Was I given the option of regular old dorm rooms and classroom buildings circa 1978?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

It is obvious you have not heard of a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. It requires hospitals to provide treatment to all patients who need emergency medical treatment regardless of whether the patients have health insurance. So everyone in America including illegals has access to medical care. Insurance or no insurance.

The issue is what they seem an emergency. If it isn't killing you at that moment, it isn't an emergency for an uninsured person that can't pay.

Anyone in healthcare will tell you the very second they can shove an uninsured person out the door, they can and do.

 

[rqarnold]

The Scandanavian countries have more economic freedom but a larger tax rate and large transfer system.

Public school is a quasi public good, not socialism. Marginal social benefit of college too small for public funding AND free college= lazy students skipping class and not doing work.

Lastly - rational self interest causes capitalism to innovate and prosper. It doesn't exist in socialism. No incentive to be efficient or innovative.

So how is healthcare not a “quasi-public good”?

 

[WildcatFan1982]

if woodchucks are so good at chucking wood, why don't we hire woodchucks as full time woodchuckers?

 

[qwesley]

If you don’t have insurance, your vehicle will not be licensed by the state to operate on a public roadway.


There is absolutely no comparison between auto insurance and requiring someone to buy health insurance because they are alive.


The point has been beat to death, but fuzz is still too dumb to understand.

My favorite part of this ongoing fuzz argument is that over 13% of drivers are not insured despite it being against the law. Only 8.5% do not have health insurance.

 

[rqarnold]

It is obvious you have not heard of a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. It requires hospitals to provide treatment to all patients who need emergency medical treatment regardless of whether the patients have health insurance. So everyone in America including illegals has access to medical care. Insurance or no insurance.

Yes, the question is who pays for that care?
And it requires that treatment be for emergencies which is often expensive and could have been treated much more efficiently and effectively if done so before the condition becomes an emergency.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Why did East Germany feel it necessary to build the Berlin Wall?

Good luck getting an answer to that. It's the concept killer for anyone arguing socialism.

One city that was split in two. Identical in every way except economic policy. One side prospered. The other suffered. It was so bad they built the wall to prevent the socialist sufferers from escaping.

 

[rqarnold]

Unless it's literally life or death then they won't treat someone without insurance. The odds of that happening to someone his age are very slim, short of an accident. Then there is likely other coverage available. Or his estate can pay.

For someone voluntarily choosing no health coverage, they likely have other financial ability to pay or at least major medical. After all this is not an ability to pay choice. It's more like deciding to not get the extended warranty on the tv

If they don't, then you have a point to an extent. It will pass down to others although it shouldn't because they are non profit.

Bullshit. You break a leg. Not life threatening. They won’t refuse treatment. About 10 yrs ago I had a motorcycle accident and got transported to the ER. I had a little road rash and tested for concussion. I was treated. When I was released a few hours later they gave me the paperwork to either file a claim or make arrangements to pay.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

M4A will never pass and Bernie knows it. Hes only planting flags as he has his entire career.

Socialists pretend they know what everyone wants. That's why it fails.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

Fundamental reality is that your free healthcare, daycare and college debt is going to leave you 30-40% poorer.

The European middle class is that much poorer than ours. I’d rather keep that wealth circulating and strengthening our economy than to let the government waste it.

you won’t be taxed more, hand wave, thensave the difference elsewhere. You are asking to be poorer, let’s make the rest of the world more like us, not us like them.

 

[rqarnold]

Why did East Germany feel it necessary to build the Berlin Wall?

Technically the GDR didn’t build the wall, the Soviets did. However West Germany would also be considered socialist by the same standard being used to label Democrats as such. Universal healthcare, free college, mandated 6 weeks vacation to be allowed by employers...what they weren’t is Communist which isn’t the same thing.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

European middle class is about 30% poorer than ours...you are much richer than they are.

There is some serious wealth leftover from real old wealth, but no where does some kid drop out of college and become a billionaire inventing something people use daily or does some dude get so much success inventing stuff his hobby is launching cars into space.

 

[Wildcats1st]

M4A will never pass and Bernie knows it. Hes only planting flags as he has his entire career.

Socialists pretend they know what everyone wants. That's why it fails.

Medicare for all is an inevitability in the next 20 years.

 

[BeaveUKGT]

why the **** should I pay more taxes to fund your kid to go to college?

Why the **** should I pay taxes to fund YOUR kid going K-12?

I don't have any kids, FWIW. So I've paid a lot of taxes to educate other peoples' kids.

I'm merely pointing out that we already have a lot of socialism in American institutions. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition like many would want us to believe.

 

[BeaveUKGT]

As for all the posh dorms on public university campuses, keep in mind that many of them are owned and operated NOT by the university but by outside for-profit firms.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

Can’t happen because of diabetes rates. Wish I remember where the article was, but before Obamacare it was estimated the cost of diabetes and related illness would single handedly bankrupt the nation of trends continued.

people don’t have a grasp on large numbers, real consequences... but tell them all their problems are someone else’s fault, that’s an easy sell.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Medicare for all is an inevitability in the next 20 years.

That's a much different statement than mine. If you are going to change things implemental change is how its done. Not these daily trillion dollar plans Bernie throws out.

That's why hes just planting a flag...hes trying to move the Overton window.

 

[truebluewildcat]

The thing about government healthcare for all is that there is no need for the government to pay for all healthcare.

Rich people can either pay out of pocket and/or have great healthcare via their jobs, they're good to go, no need to worry about putting their expenses on the tab.

Employed people with even just halfway decent healthcare benefits are also good to go. No need to kick all those folks off their plan and put them on the government tab.

The issue that everyone needs to focus on is healthcare for older retired folks, the unemployed, underemployed, and or lower working class that can't afford private insurance because they're either not working or they are working but not somewhere that provides health benefits.

The only way you can pay for something like that is budget reform/cuts. Basically clearing out some things we probably don't need to be wasting money on anyway in order to make room. Also, in addition to tightening the belt, Uncle Sam would have to find new and additional streams of revenue...new taxes...which is hard for either party to sell. Gambling and weed would be prime candidates, but the revenues from those two wouldn't totally cover the cost of healthcare.

 

[Bill Cosby]

You’re making the opposite point you think you are. If you don’t have health insurance, you still receive care because of the law Sawnee referenced. And those costs are passed on to everyone. The only way not having insurance works is if you deny care to those who can’t pay.

I’m making exactly the point I think I’m making, you just don’t comprehend.

The comparison to auto insurance is repeatedly parroted by the left. Obamacare’s requirement to buy health insurance because you’re alive is in no way comparable to a state requiring you to purchase insurance for a vehicle to be licensed by the state to operate on public roadways.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

That’s actually a fundamental difference in how Europeans view the world vs Americans’ “why should I pay for you?”

eropeans recognize some people are losers, and they believe in providing them a welfare state to take care of their needs.

only like 30% of Europeans go to “free” college compared to something like 70% here... they don’t have posh dorms either

 

[kybloo92]

I said twenties. Haven't been a student for a good while. And again I have no student loans, Bernie's proposals wouldn't apply to me. Understanding economics and political science are integral to understanding history. I guarantee that you and the majority of this board have not actually read Marx yourself and have no idea what you're really railing at.

 

[Bigblue2023]

I’m making exactly the point I think I’m making, you just don’t comprehend.

The comparison to auto insurance is repeatedly parroted by the left. Obamacare’s requirement to buy health insurance because you’re alive is in no way comparable to a state requiring you to purchase insurance for a vehicle to be licensed by the state to operate on public roadways.

It really is as simple as you dont have to buy auto insurance. End of discussion when comparing it to obamacare...

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[bigblueinsanity]

It really is as simple as you dont have to buy auto insurance. End of discussion when comparing it to obamacare...

You don't have to buy or even drive a car. Obamacare taxed you for breathing

 

[Bigblue2023]

Bullshit. You break a leg. Not life threatening. They won’t refuse treatment. About 10 yrs ago I had a motorcycle accident and got transported to the ER. I had a little road rash and tested for concussion. I was treated. When I was released a few hours later they gave me the paperwork to either file a claim or make arrangements to pay.

So you were riding a motorcycle, one of the most dangerous things you can do, without health insurance, and you have the nerve to get on here and lecture other people about being a drag on our healthcare system???

Get out of here, no time to debate with a full on hypocrite.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Bullshit. You break a leg. Not life threatening. They won’t refuse treatment. About 10 yrs ago I had a motorcycle accident and got transported to the ER. I had a little road rash and tested for concussion. I was treated. When I was released a few hours later they gave me the paperwork to either file a claim or make arrangements to pay.

Read above. The key is what is considered life saving.

Also I guarantee they requested and got from you all sorts of information. Including probably the basic question of if you had coverage. That's one of the first things they ask everyone

 

[Bill Cosby]

You don't have to buy or even drive a car. Obamacare taxed you for breathing

But you can even drive and buy a vehicle. It just won’t be licensed by the state to operate on public roadways.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Simple question to the Bernie bros:

How is a vast social safety net possible with open borders. You cant point to nordic countries on this one bc they dont have open immigration

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

 

[Crums Bald Spot]

So both sides like walls. Got it.

One builds a wall to keep the scrubs out. The other builds a wall to keep their people in.

 

[funKYcat75]

One builds a wall to keep the scrubs out. The other builds a wall to keep their people in.

And the sign says "Anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight"
So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house, Hey! What gives you the right
To put up a fence And keep me out Or to keep Mother Nature in
If God was here He'd tell it to your face Man You're some kind of sinner

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

 

[Deeeefense]

The Scandanavian countries have more economic freedom but a larger tax rate and large transfer system.

Public school is a quasi public good, not socialism. Marginal social benefit of college too small for public funding AND free college= lazy students skipping class and not doing work.

Lastly - rational self interest causes capitalism to innovate and prosper. It doesn't exist in socialism. No incentive to be efficient or innovative.

I would estimate only about half of all HS grads are truly equipped for college, and there would seem to be little or no economic value towards many degrees such as fashion design or art history etc. I also think many colleges have taken advantage of the easy-to-get student loan program and have unfairly jacked up tuition beyond what is reasonable.

 

[rqarnold]

Read above. The key is what is considered life saving.

Also I guarantee they requested and got from you all sorts of information. Including probably the basic question of if you had coverage. That's one of the first things they ask everyone

No it isn’t.

 

[screwduke1]

Obstructing Congress

My god. Imagine waking up being a complete imbecile like rq.

 

[JumperJack]

Little incentive to move above lower middle class?
You’ve not been to Europe, have you?

Democratic socialism as practiced in Europe (and most Europeans don’t see it as socialism) provides access to what are seen as essential services. Namely healthcare and education. There is still plenty of incentive to live in a nicer home, drive a nicer vehicle on roads where they actually allow you to drive that BMW capable of doing 185...185mph! Eat better food although they most all eat much more healthy diets than do we.
Some European countries have more millionaire per capita than the US...and others have similar rates. Nearly 1 in 10 in Switzerland are millionaires.
Money has the same perks most everywhere.

Boy I wonder what ever happened to those guys with the yellow vests in France?

How strange. Must have just...disappeared.

Yep. Nobody in Europe is unhappy.

 

[JumperJack]

I would estimate only about half of all HS grads are truly equipped for college, and there would seem to be little or no economic value towards many degrees such as fashion design or art history etc. I also think many colleges have taken advantage of the easy-to-get student loan program and have unfairly jacked up tuition beyond what is reasonable.

You think?

It should be obvious.

There is no way in hell the taxpayer should be on the hook for useless liberal arts degrees.