POLITICAL THREAD

[UKBrassowTipIN]

If bernie were elected about all that would happen is this: He’d expand the regulatory state. He’d nominate progressive judges. He’d likely cut the defense budget. He’d probably have a less interventionist and more isolationist foreign policy than Trump.

That's it. Although those things do matter.

Hes setting up these young people to rage more when he fails...but at the same time hes banking on them bc they dont understand govt. The founders specifically created our system for gridlock to prevent us from continually swinging back and forth from extreme especially in polarization. So if he blows all his load on M4A he will accomplish nothing else. And this nonsense that hes going to put pressure on local senators and what not that block his agenda. Its telling as hes completely clueless that ppl vote for those ppl for the sole reason to fight back against his agenda...not because they are just holding us hostage.

You libs on here know how you celebrate when you claim trump doesnt drain the swamp. Why do you think that is? Because the way the govt is set up ot wont allow for it. Know how you celebrate when cabinet members quit or leak. What do you think will happen to sanders? There arent enough communists that are qualified to fill his positions. Hes going to have to hire former clinton and Obama ppl...what do you think someone like his secretary of defense is going to do?

The interesting thing, is you jump for joy claiming trump is lying or whatever else...but it will be interesting what you'll do when bernie doesnt deliver. Well we know...this time you'll blame Republicans.

Put it this way @Dionysus444 Barack Obama swept into office in the biggest landslide in a generation, and eight years later key provisions of his single signal legislative achievement have been repealed or gutted.

 

[kybloo92]

Twenties and yes, if you know my post history you know I'm a history major who's researched the topics at hand extensively. Simply put current crony capitalism is broken. Mike Bloomberg has 64 billion dollars, more than 125 million Americans. Democracies thrive on an informed middle class, made up of workers. When the return on capital gets you more than your labor the parasitic owner class siphons off more and more from the workers actually doing the work and producing.

Bernie Sanders and the current American left are not advocating for seizing the means of production and a fully centrally planned economy. They're just fighting for universal healthcare and an expanded social safety net like the rest of the developed world to round off the rougher edges of capitalism. All this fear-mongering about Soviet Socialism is purely to appeal to your emotions so you vote in the economic interest of the billionaires, not yourself.

I'm in my 20's and it is people like you who scare the hell out of me that have a vote. The future of this country I have to live the majority of my life in with ideology like this from people with your mindset brainwashed by the MSM.

 

[anon_l8pbkn96tg3j6]

Oh so "Antifa nuts" have a constitutional right to own a nuke, as does every joe blow wife beater down the holler? That libertarian wet dream is completely impractical and you know it, you're just arguing to argue.

I wasn't even making the libertarian argument. It holds at a country level . No country with nukes gets ****ed with, period.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

I'm not after your guns. The 2nd amendment exists for a variety of legitimate reasons. I grew up in a hunting culture. A reasonable debate on where we draw the line though is needed. A hunting rifle and a nuke are not the same thing. Nobody thinks we have a constitutional right to all arms.

Explain the Virginia bill to confiscate. Thankfully a few level headed dems spoke up and killed that. So bullshit on that

 

[Bigblue2023]

Twenties and yes, if you know my post history you know I'm a history major who's researched the topics at hand extensively. Simply put current crony capitalism is broken. Mike Bloomberg has 64 billion dollars, more than 125 million Americans. Democracies thrive on an informed middle class, made up of workers. When the return on capital gets you more than your labor the parasitic owner class siphons off more and more from the workers actually doing the work and producing.

Bernie Sanders and the current American left are not advocating for seizing the means of production and a fully centrally planned economy. They're just fighting for universal healthcare and an expanded social safety net like the rest of the developed world to round off the rougher edges of capitalism. All this fear-mongering about Soviet Socialism is purely to appeal to your emotions so you vote in the economic interest of the billionaires, not yourself.

All I got there were a few campaign talking points. You may have studied history, but you certainly didnt study business. Starting a business in a free market society allows you to pay what you like and also keep what you like from revenue generated. Workers have the right to accept your wages or seek employment elsewhere. That freedom sets a market standard for wages for a given skill set. Employers must meet that standard for wages and benefits or risk going under. Government attempting to manipulate that will have disastrous consequences.

The area that you're wrong is their desire to seize the means of production. The green new deal is absolutely designed to destroy industry and our economy so government can nationalize industry and seize control. Bernie's very first promise to issue an executive order ending all oil exports will be enough to completely destroy the American economy and "force" the government to nationalize all broken down industry. Just because it's not part of their talking points does not mean it isn't their intention. A broken economy is exactly what they want and what their policies would accomplish. People are more willing to give up their freedom during desperate times.

Back to the original question though, what about the history of socialism appeals to you? Looking for your words and thoughts, not the democratic debate talking points about Bloomberg.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I said twenties. Haven't been a student for a good while. And again I have no student loans, Bernie's proposals wouldn't apply to me. Understanding economics and political science are integral to understanding history. I guarantee that you and the majority of this board have not actually read Marx yourself and have no idea what you're really railing at.

Twenties and yes, if you know my post history you know I'm a history major

So you're not a history major?

 

[duke4life831]

Bernie Sanders and the current American left are not advocating for seizing the means of production and a fully centrally planned economy. They're just fighting for universal healthcare and an expanded social safety net like the rest of the developed world to round off the rougher edges of capitalism. All this fear-mongering about Soviet Socialism is purely to appeal to your emotions so you vote in the economic interest of the billionaires, not yourself.

What? He wants to nationalize the entire energy sector, healthcare, banks and the internet. He is also for the GND which the guy who wrote the thing came out and said the GND is just a way for them to implement socialism.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Oh so "Antifa nuts" have a constitutional right to own a nuke, as does every joe blow wife beater down the holler, and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev too? That libertarian wet dream is completely impractical and you know it, you're just arguing to argue.

Ok Proud Boy.

Proud Boy top 3 leaders are people of color, you bigot. Nice try, Mr Antifa. Please bring a bottle of piss to an AR 15 fight. I f****** dare you

 

[Bill Cosby]

What? He wants to nationalize the entire energy sector, healthcare, banks and the internet.

Back when the left was pushing Obamacare, they were also claiming single payer wasn't the goal. Now the Ds are running on single payer. The end result is always the same. Dion is either a moron or disingenuous.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Back when the left was pushing Obamacare, they were also claiming single payer wasn't the goal. Now the Ds are running on single payer. The end result is always the same. Dion is either a moron or disingenuous.

he is both

 

[Dionysus444]

All I got there were a few campaign talking points. You may have studied history, but you certainly didnt study business. Starting a business in a free market society allows you to pay what you like and also keep what you like from revenue generated. Workers have the right to accept your wages or seek employment elsewhere. That freedom sets a market standard for wages for a given skill set. Employers must meet that standard for wages and benefits or risk going under. Government attempting to manipulate that will have disastrous consequences.

The area that you're wrong is their desire to seize the means of production. The green new deal is absolutely designed to destroy industry and our economy so government can nationalize industry and seize control. Bernie's very first promise to issue an executive order ending all oil exports will be enough to completely destroy the American economy and "force" the government to nationalize all broken down industry. Just because it's not part of their talking points does not mean it isn't their intention. A broken economy is exactly what they want and what their policies would accomplish. People are more willing to give up their freedom during desperate times.

Back to the original question though, what about the history of socialism appeals to you? Looking for your words and thoughts, not the democratic debate talking points about Bloomberg.

You say you're looking for a quote "honest conversation" then throw out wild conspiracy theories about the Democrats trying to tank the economy to assume authoritarian control. Seems like you're more interested in a narrative than a conversation.

As to what about socialism is appealing, as I stated in the post the American left is advocating for catching up to the rest of the world with universal healthcare and social safety nets. The right calls everything the left does socialism.

 

[Bigblue2023]

Back when the left was pushing Obamacare, they were also claiming single payer wasn't the goal. Now the Ds are running on single payer. The end result is always the same. Dion is either a moron or disingenuous.

This is exactly the point on numerous topics. Bernie and others wont directly say they want to nationalize this or that, but their intended policies would absolutely and intentionally lead to that.

 

[duke4life831]

You say you're looking for a quote "honest conversation" then throw out wild conspiracy theories about the Democrats trying to tank the economy to assume authoritarian control. Seems like you're more interested in a narrative than a conversation.

As to what about socialism is appealing, as I stated in the post the American left is advocating for catching up to the rest of the world with universal healthcare and social safety nets. The right calls everything the left does socialism.

I agree that many on the right call any kind of social program socialism, but Bernie is a legit socialist who borders on communist.

 

[Bigblue2023]

You say you're looking for a quote "honest conversation" then throw out wild conspiracy theories about the Democrats trying to tank the economy to assume authoritarian control. Seems like you're more interested in a narrative than a conversation.

As to what about socialism is appealing, as I stated in the post the American left is advocating for catching up to the rest of the world with universal healthcare and social safety nets. The right calls everything the left does socialism.

Please tell where I posted a conspiracy theory? Bernie is the one who said he wants to end all oil exports on day 1 due to climate change. Any economist worth anything will tell you cutting off that kind of revenue will sink the American economy beyond repair, and it would happen fast. Now why would he want to do such a thing? Just curious what your thoughts are on that?

 

[Dionysus444]

Back when the left was pushing Obamacare, they were also claiming single payer wasn't the goal. Now the Ds are running on single payer. The end result is always the same. Dion is either a moron or disingenuous.

If you were paying attention during those discussions Obamacare was being critiqued at the time from the left for not going far enough. It was a compromise. The left wanted single-payer then and wants single-payer now.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Haha haha I forgot Dion believes in climate change

 

[Bill Derington]

Dion is an intelligent young man, no doubt in my mind. However, by his own posts he comes from a wealthy or at least well off family. His life has been privileged and he feels guilt from it.
The majority of the posters on here and in the real world didn’t have that luxury. We fought and clawed for our piece of the pie.
The struggle and fight is what keeps the Country sharp. We were born fighting, it gives us the edge necessary to maintain top status in the World. You take that away and it’s a death knell to the this great nation.

 

[Dionysus444]

Please tell where I posted a conspiracy theory? Bernie is the one who said he wants to end all oil exports on day 1 due to climate change. Any economist worth anything will tell you cutting off that kind of revenue will sink the American economy beyond repair, and it would happen fast. Now why would he want to do such a thing? Just curious what your thoughts are on that?

That's pretty apocalyptic, the American economy existed before fracking and will exist after it. You're looking at the issue through a lens of what's good for "the economy" and by that you mean the stock market. We should be looking at every issue as what's good for the country, not the stock market.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

I said twenties. Haven't been a student for a good while. And again I have no student loans, Bernie's proposals wouldn't apply to me. Understanding economics and political science are integral to understanding history. I guarantee that you and the majority of this board have not actually read Marx yourself and have no idea what you're really railing at.

Are you endorsing the book?

Economics under a socialist government means low production and starvation. Did your history teacher explain to you that socialist governments have jailed and murdered millions of their own citizens. And you support that?

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Another problem with Bernie is he thinks in terms of is there us just right and wrong...there is no gray area.

Bernie, like everyone infected with Marxist categories of thinking, believes he knows what the people want. And if they say they want something that he thinks they shouldn’t want—something that clashes with their true “class interests”—they must be suffering from “false consciousness.”

 

[Bigblue2023]

You say you're looking for a quote "honest conversation" then throw out wild conspiracy theories about the Democrats trying to tank the economy to assume authoritarian control. Seems like you're more interested in a narrative than a conversation.

As to what about socialism is appealing, as I stated in the post the American left is advocating for catching up to the rest of the world with universal healthcare and social safety nets. The right calls everything the left does socialism.

Back again to the original question that you have thus far completely ignored by again throwing out more campaign talking points, what about the history of socialism appeals to you? I'm not asking which talking points you like, but some actual history of success that brings you to wanting to live in a socialist country?

Also I'm confused, you proudly state there is a socialist movement that you're on board with, but then claim repubs unfairly label all things left as socialist, and then say bernie doesnt really want full socialism. So are you on board with socialism, or some watered down version of it that would line up closer to the old democratic party? Just want to be clear where you stand here.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Dion is an intelligent young man, no doubt in my mind. However, by his own posts he comes from a wealthy or at least well off family. His life has been privileged and he feels guilt from it.
The majority of the posters on here and in the real world didn’t have that luxury. We fought and clawed for our piece of the pie.
The struggle and fight is what keeps the Country sharp. We were born fighting, it gives us the edge necessary to maintain top status in the World. You take that away and it’s a death knell to the this great nation.

he’s a gd white rich kid taught to be ashamed of his family’s money.

prolly has daddy issues. Daddy prolly hit him because he is lazy. Found solstice in Marx. Then joined Antifa.

 

[screwduke1]

Lol, and to think this moron used to call himself a conservative republican.

 

[Dionysus444]

Dion is an intelligent young man, no doubt in my mind. However, by his own posts he comes from a wealthy or at least well off family. His life has been privileged and he feels guilt from it.
The majority of the posters on here and in the real world didn’t have that luxury. We fought and clawed for our piece of the pie.
The struggle and fight is what keeps the Country sharp. We were born fighting, it gives us the edge necessary to maintain top status in the World. You take that away and it’s a death knell to the this great nation.

Many are born into generational grinding poverty in India, Africa, China and everywhere else as well as the US. We are not unique. It's the measures we take now that improve the lives of those in the future, not the conditions of the poverty we were born into. Some use that poverty as motivation to escape and better their circumstances. The majority are crushed by the weight of subsistence living and are never able to climb out of the repeating cycle.

 

[Bigblue2023]

That's pretty apocalyptic, the American economy existed before fracking and will exist after it. You're looking at the issue through a lens of what's good for "the economy" and by that you mean the stock market. We should be looking at every issue as what's good for the country, not the stock market.

Therein lies the major problem with your point of view. Ignoring the evil market is also ignoring what is good for the country. If the market crashed, everything comes down with it. There are many examples of this. The great depression wasnt caused by some social inequity, it was caused by the market crashing. The market is an integral part of our economy and well being. Money does actually mean something.

Also your view of america before fracking and exports completely ignores the reality of economics. It may not have existed before, but it does today and therefore is a major part of today's economy. You cant snap your fingers and go back in time before fracking. Ending it abruptly as bernie wants to do, would result in a catastrophic market collapse that would end up with a large percentage of American workers unemployed and seeking gov't benefits. It's not a conspiracy theory. There is no way around that with such an executive order.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[Dionysus444]

Are you endorsing the book?

Economics under a socialist government means low production and starvation. Did your history teacher explain to you that socialist governments have jailed and murdered millions of their own citizens. And you support that?

Our capitalist government now has the highest percentage of it's population jailed in the entire world. Bernie is not Stalin. You are not going to be sent to a gulag.

 

[Dionysus444]

Found solstice in Marx.

The word you're looking for is solace.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[Bigblue2023]

That's pretty apocalyptic, the American economy existed before fracking and will exist after it. You're looking at the issue through a lens of what's good for "the economy" and by that you mean the stock market. We should be looking at every issue as what's good for the country, not the stock market.

Also let's try to actually engage in healthy debate. If you dont agree with a point I'm making, please tell me why I'm wrong. Calling me a conspiracy theorist does nothing to get your point across or disprove mine.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

I’ve brought up the Dinesh Desouza option before. And Dion tried rationalizing it like every socialist does.

Dion wants EVERYONE in a capitalist society to give up a portion of their own money for the greater good, but yet the likes of Dion WILL not start the giving first. He wants everyone else to do it first. F*** him. I have zero respect for this type of coward

Do you any of you folks here think Dion would’ve given up his free ride in a liberal college for a person of color or less fortunate? Of course not.

 

[Bill Derington]

Many are born into generational grinding poverty in India, Africa, China and everywhere else as well as the US. We are not unique. It's the measures we take now that improve the lives of those in the future, not the conditions of the poverty we were born into. Some use that poverty as motivation to escape and better their circumstances. The majority are crushed by the weight of subsistence living and are never able to climb out of the repeating cycle.

Who is this “ majority” that are crushed in the United States?
Comparing China and India to the United States reinforces my statement.
What you are advocating for is a loss of freedom and liberty. That will not stand in this country.

 

[Dionysus444]

The great depression wasnt caused by some social inequity, it was caused by the market crashing.

Are you serious? Of course the market crashed because of social inequity. Rampant speculation fueled by conspicuous consumption.

 

[ukalum1988]

Therein lies the major problem with your point of view. Ignoring the evil market is also ignoring what is good for the country. If the market crashed, everything comes down with it. There are many examples of this. The great depression wasnt caused by some social inequity, it was caused by the market crashing. The market is an integral part of our economy and well being. Money does actually mean something.

Also your view of america before fracking and exports completely ignores the reality of economics. It may not have existed before, but it does today and therefore is a major part of today's economy. You cant snap your fingers and go back in time before fracking. Ending it abruptly as bernie wants to do, would result in a catastrophic market collapse that would end up with a large percentage of American workers unemployed and seeking gov't benefits. It's not a conspiracy theory. There is no way around that with such an executive order.

If Bernie gets elected, we’ll see capital flight and capital destruction befitting a third world country.

In Bernie’s world, people will serve the government, not the other way around; i.e. the correct way.

 

[Dionysus444]

Who is this “ majority” that are crushed in the United States?
Comparing China and India to the United States reinforces my statement.
What you are advocating for is a loss of freedom and liberty. That will not stand in this country.

The freedom to get healthcare when you couldn't before is not a loss of freedom.

 

[ukalum1988]

Are you serious? Of course the market crashed because of social inequity. Rampant speculation fueled by conspicuous consumption.

.... and made worse and prolonged by FDR’s disastrous New Deal policies.

 

[Dionysus444]

I’ve brought up the Dinesh Desouza option before. And Dion tried rationalizing it like every socialist does.

Dion wants EVERYONE in a capitalist society to give up a portion of their own money for the greater good, but yet the likes of Dion WILL not start the giving first. He wants everyone else to do it first. F*** him. I have zero respect for this type of coward

Do you any of you folks here think Dion would’ve given up his free ride in a liberal college for a person of color or less fortunate? Of course not.

 

[Bill Derington]

The freedom to get healthcare when you couldn't before is not a loss of freedom.

Sure it is, it’s a loss of my freedom to choose.

 

[anon_l8pbkn96tg3j6]

The freedom to get healthcare when you couldn't before is not a loss of freedom.

The freedom to not pay an insurance premium is a loss of freedom.