POLITICAL THREAD

[Ineverplayedthegame]

What I've heard, true or not, is that the teachers pension obligations have been largely funded by their respective school districts to something like 60-75% whereas the state has basically stiffed their funding for state workers for decades & thus is in for only about 20% of obligations & yet teachers are being lumped with state workers as an equally part of the problem. Net, they're getting the short end in their opinions.

As far as state pensions, the judges are funded at over 100%.
The legislators are probably funded at least as well but who knows because they don’t tell or even tell what their benefits are.
The teachers are funded next best followed by state troopers then lastly the rank and file state employees.
The teachers are most up in arms because they are the whipping boys of the state.

 

[ukalumni00]

Took some education courses at UK and soon realized I actually wanted to make real money and I hated dealing with other people's kids.

As for this whole deal in KY, for years Dems had control of the Governor's house and I believe majority on the legislature and did nothing about this problem but its the Republicans fault for trying to fix it now. Sounds about right. God himself could come down and draft a bill and I guarantee you there would be a group of folks who would still complain about it.

For every complaint teachers make there is a counter to the great perks they get that most other professions do not. If you do not like it then I suggest finding a different profession that meets your standards.

 

[Vandalayindustries]

Can someone explain what is going on in Kentucky? I live in Ohio and only remotely know what's going on. Is the new bill basically the same for all current teachers but they adjusted the benefits for new ones? If so, why all the whining/complaining? In the private sector, our benefits change nearly every year. And all this over a pension, which any smart person would know is a pyramid scheme and not going to work long term?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

As far as state pensions, the judges are funded at over 100%.
The legislators are probably funded at least as well but who knows because they don’t tell or even tell what their benefits are.
The teachers are funded next best followed by state troopers then lastly the rank and file state employees.
The teachers are most up in arms because they are the whipping boys of the state.

No. They're up in arms because the Dems/kea/nea are trying to make political hay. That's why. And teachers are too aloof to realize it

As for this whole deal in KY, for years Dems had control of the Governor's house and I believe majority on the legislature and did nothing about this problem

Even worse they were the cause of the problem. Can't believe noone challenges little Andy on his pulpit. His dad was a major cause of the problem

 

[DSmith21]

Can someone explain what is going on in Kentucky? I live in Ohio and only remotely know what's going on. Is the new bill basically the same for all current teachers but they adjusted the benefits for new ones? If so, why all the whining/complaining? In the private sector, our benefits change nearly every year. And all this over a pension, which any smart person would know is a pyramid scheme and not going to work long term?

Kentucky's pension system is grossly underfunded. In fact, it is the second most unstable system in the country next to Illinois. The teachers don't want to make concessions to help shore up the fund. Their position is that the fund shortage should be fixed by either higher taxes or revenue from allowing casino gambling. New taxes are a non-starter for the newly GOP controlled legislature. The governor isn't for casino gambling and who knows if it could pass anyway. That only leaves cutting benefits as a way to reduce the underfunded liability.

 

[Vandalayindustries]

Well that is just dumb. And their PR campaign is basically support us or you hate kids/teachers/education?

How are normal, non-teachers in Kentucky just letting this happen?

 

[Mashburned]

How in the world did Andy Beshear become AG. That's some scary stuff.

 

[Mashburned]

Well that is just dumb. And their PR campaign is basically support us or you hate kids/teachers/education?

How are normal, non-teachers in Kentucky just letting this happen?

Bevin was elected in large part because he campaigned on fixing the pension crisis.

He's basically Kentucky's Trump and mfers can't stand that. He's fulfilled a lot of his campaign promises.

 

[DSmith21]

How in the world did Andy Beshear become AG. That's some scary stuff.

He won off of his daddy's name recognition and even then it was only by very small margin (50.1% to 49.9%).

 

[bigblueinsanity]

He won off of his daddy's name recognition and even then it was only by very small margin (50.1% to 49.9%).

Yep barely won versus someone who barely spent any money and noone ever heard of.

Same with Grimes.

 

[PhattyJ4UK]

Pulse nightclub shooters wife acquitted of all charges

 

[screwduke1]

The wife of the Pulse gunman was actually acquitted?

Just nuke us now NK.

 

[Bill Cosby]

With Ohio to the north and it's current tax friendly environment especially for businesses (for now), Tennessee to the south with no individual income tax, Indiana bordering with relatively low taxes, etc. coupled with the elimination of the state and local tax deduction for federal tax purposes, raising tax rates in KY would absolutely not result in increased revenue in KY.

I already spend my days in OH and most weekend nights, so it would make a damn bit of difference for me to move right across the river to OH. Schools are better too if/when I have children.

 

[screwduke1]

 

[Pelosigalore]

Kentucky's pension system is grossly underfunded. In fact, it is the second most unstable system in the country next to Illinois. The teachers don't want to make concessions to help shore up the fund. Their position is that the fund shortage should be fixed by either higher taxes or revenue from allowing casino gambling. New taxes are a non-starter for the newly GOP controlled legislature. The governor isn't for casino gambling and who knows if it could pass anyway. That only leaves cutting benefits as a way to reduce the underfunded liability.

Can we cut some entitlement programs to get more money? Pay teachers more and let them handle their own retirement just like most other people.

 

[Mashburned]

What ever happened with the Grimes scandal? She stole and misused voter info, gave it to some tech company....that went away pretty quick.

 

[Midway Cat]

Not sure how local governments can be made to pay for salaries/pensions of separate, non-government school districts. Local government have no say over school district operations, just collect their taxes for them.

I suspect that you're confused about this topic. Local governments do in fact pay a portion of the salaries and pension contributions for the school employees in their counties. The state also makes these payments, although we've been through periods where the state didn't do so to the extent that they should have with regard to pension contributions. The actual amount of the salaries paid to teachers aren't determined by local governments, but local governments are required to pay a portion of those salaries and the accompanying pension contributions.

But isn't this really a DEMOCRATIC party problem, since they have controlled the state for decades... and did NOTHING to resolve the problem?

Enough with the tribalism. I only referenced the Republicans in my previous post because they passed the bill last night in a truly embarrassing and shortsighted manner.

Regardless, here's the most important point for everyone to recognize--This bill does nothing to solve the current pension funding issue. The talking point about Republicans finally fixing a problem that Democrats created and ignored is simply not true. Stop repeating it.

Nothing has been fixed, and the new approach likely will result in the pension system not having sufficient resources to pay current and future retirees even though the bill technically didn't change their promised benefits. Without new employees paying into the fund, there won't be enough money to pay current benefits, particularly after the next economic downturn. Either we'll have to raise taxes, which won't happen, or it will be necessary to cut benefits across the board at some point down the line, which will be devastating to local economies, the elderly, etc.

Regardless of if you're a Republican or a Democrat, everyone has a stake in these issues. This is a Kentucky problem. The quality of education in our state affects all of us. The solvency of the pension system for state workers affects all of us as taxpayers and citizens who require and use public services. Everyone needs to take a step back from their party affiliation and actually consider the implications of what's going on.

Last, I just want to point out that I'm not a teacher or a state worker. I don't have a pension coming to me. I also don't have any kids, so if I were truly selfish, I'd say cut everything so I don't have to pay taxes. But that's the kind of extremely shortsighted thinking that will drag down our entire society if we let it.

Gandhi said that a nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members. That includes the public servants who care for our children. Public goods are essential to maintaining a healthy, stable society. We can't prioritize scoring cheap political points over the future of our state. Sadly, that's what happened last night, and the people responsible should pay a price for it.

Now, back to work.

 

[screwduke1]

Creepy Joe doing creepy things

View embedded media

View embedded media

I REALLY hope he runs in 2020. Trump would beat him worse than Hillary.

 

[vhcat70]

As far as state pensions, the judges are funded at over 100%.
The legislators are probably funded at least as well but who knows because they don’t tell or even tell what their benefits are.
The teachers are funded next best followed by state troopers then lastly the rank and file state employees.
The teachers are most up in arms because they are the whipping boys of the state.

Thanks. I don't understand the meaning of your whipping boys comment.

 

[fuzz77]

I can’t feel too terribly sorry for teachers based on some of the ones I know/had.

One HS teacher was making in the 80k range - had no class 1st period and detention after school. She was a fine teacher, but 80? That’s nice.

Others I know started out of college making 38 w/auto 2k bumps no matter the performance.

For 9 or so months a year? Not too bad.

They need to move to DC plan going forward.

The first opportunity for a teacher in Fayette county to make $80K is after 22 years and having obtained your Ph.D. And no... the starting teachers aren't getting $2K bumps. The first $2K bump comes when they reach their 10th year of teaching.

No matter the performance? Teachers can be let go for any reason prior to reaching tenure and 1 in 5 leave teaching in the first 5 years because of the pressures and relative low pay. Some school systems are almost forced to keep teachers they would rather replace because they can't get people to take the jobs.

As for 9 months a year...you're obviously not a teacher nor married to one. It's a much bigger commitment than most realize. There are commitments beyond just the school year. Yeah, there are a few that do the minimum to get by but that's true in every profession. My mother, father, wife and daughter are/were all teachers and I'd put their actual work hours up against anyone in any job.

 

[screwduke1]

View embedded media

Well....goodf*****g bye.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

No. They're up in arms because the Dems/kea/nea are trying to make political hay. That's why. And teachers are too aloof to realize it



Even worse they were the cause of the problem. Can't believe noone challenges little Andy on his pulpit. His dad was a major cause of the problem

The problem is both parties agenda is doing whatever it takes to get re-elected.
Democratics want to solve everything by giving the store away. This was the soup de jour for many years in Frankfort. Eventually someone has to pay the tab.
Republicans now have the keys and want to fix things by cutting services as opposed to finding any kind of new revenue. This approach will always affect certain segments. Time will tell if these segments can impact them at the next election. Dumbest part was wasting a lot of political capital on a solution that wasn’t even a solution.
Beshear will no doubt take the “unconstitutional angle” up and use as his platform in the next gubernatorial election. Judge Shepherd will probably agree so this will most likely be all for naught anyway.
If the goal was to polarize sides even more, I guess that has been accomplished.

 

[qwesley]

My mother, father, wife and daughter are/were all teachers

there it is...always a made up personal story

 

[Mashburned]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh. judicial watch sued Allison Grimes. Seems they found some interesting things? Idk. I'm not a law dog, but this would explain why she's been so quite.

https://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/jw-v-grimes-et-al-kentucky-complaint-00094/

13.
Judicial Watch analyzed the data the 2017 EAC Report and compared the
most recent census data determine the registration rates United States counties.
14.
Kentucky leads every other state the nation the number counties which
total registration greater than the voting-age population. Specifically, Kentucky counties
have more registered voters than voting-age residents.
15.
Judicial Watch also compared voter registrations citizen voting-age population.
Citizen voting-age population excludes noncitizens, who are not lawfully entitled register
vote federal state elections, and more meaningful way assess jurisdiction
registration rate than voting-age population alone.
16.
Kentucky leads every other state the nation the number counties which
total registration exceeds the citizen voting-age population. Specifically, the number voter
registrations exceeds the number age-eligible citizens Kentucky counties, 40% all
Kentucky counties.
17.
This represents large increase what was already one the highest state totals counties with citizen-adjusted registration rates exceeding 100%. Prior release the 2017
EAC Report, the data showed that Kentucky counties had more registered voters than citizens
over the age 18.
18.
The Commonwealth Kentucky whole has more statewide registrations than has resident citizens voting age. Kentucky one only three states the nation with
active, statewide registration rate exceeding 100%.
Case: 3:17-cv-00094-GFVT Doc Filed: 11/14/17 Page: Page ID#:
19.
Kentucky high registration rates indicate that not conducting general
program that makes reasonable effort cancel the registrations ineligible registrants.
Kentucky Failure Report Inactive Registrations


So, Ky has more voters than citizens? How can that work? Hmmm

 

[qwesley]

I suspect that you're confused about this topic. Local governments do in fact pay a portion of the salaries and pension contributions for the school employees in their counties. The state also makes these payments, although we've been through periods where the state didn't do so to the extent that they should have with regard to pension contributions. The actual amount of the salaries paid to teachers aren't determined by local governments, but local governments are required to pay a portion of those salaries and the accompanying pension contributions.



Enough with the tribalism. I only referenced the Republicans in my previous post because they passed the bill last night in a truly embarrassing and shortsighted manner.

Regardless, here's the most important point for everyone to recognize--This bill does nothing to solve the current pension funding issue. The talking point about Republicans finally fixing a problem that Democrats created and ignored is simply not true. Stop repeating it.

Nothing has been fixed, and the new approach likely will result in the pension system not having sufficient resources to pay current and future retirees even though the bill technically didn't change their promised benefits. Without new employees paying into the fund, there won't be enough money to pay current benefits, particularly after the next economic downturn. Either we'll have to raise taxes, which won't happen, or it will be necessary to cut benefits across the board at some point down the line, which will be devastating to local economies, the elderly, etc.

Regardless of if you're a Republican or a Democrat, everyone has a stake in these issues. This is a Kentucky problem. The quality of education in our state affects all of us. The solvency of the pension system for state workers affects all of us as taxpayers and citizens who require and use public services. Everyone needs to take a step back from their party affiliation and actually consider the implications of what's going on.

Last, I just want to point out that I'm not a teacher or a state worker. I don't have a pension coming to me. I also don't have any kids, so if I were truly selfish, I'd say cut everything so I don't have to pay taxes. But that's the kind of extremely shortsighted thinking that will drag down our entire society if we let it.

Gandhi said that a nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members. That includes the public servants who care for our children. Public goods are essential to maintaining a healthy, stable society. We can't prioritize scoring cheap political points over the future of our state. Sadly, that's what happened last night, and the people responsible should pay a price for it.

Now, back to work.

6+ paragraphs and not even a hint of a solution. And teachers aren't our weakest members, hell in most counties they are upper class

 

[vhcat70]

I suspect that you're confused about this topic. Local governments do in fact pay a portion of the salaries and pension contributions for the school employees in their counties. The state also makes these payments, although we've been through periods where the state didn't do so to the extent that they should have with regard to pension contributions. The actual amount of the salaries paid to teachers aren't determined by local governments, but local governments are required to pay a portion of those salaries and the accompanying pension contributions.

Thanks. When I look at my county (Kenton) tax bill, I see seven different pots including COUNTY & COMMON SCHOOL. I feel sure the CS money funds the county schools.

When I go into the County budget on line, there are nine money pots, none listing pensions or schools. I went into the County General Funds pot & there is no item for schools/pensions but a Fringe Benefits pot. I opened that & it has a Retirement pot for EMPLOYEES which schools teachers are not. Net, I don't see where teachers' pensions are being funded by the county.

 

[Mashburned]

I want voters to give blood samples when they vote! Democrats are seriously campaigning on letting NON US CITIZENS VOTE. Can you imagine what other things they have done to try and persuade elections? (and repubs too, probably....tho r's are not openly campaigning for this crap). It's the single most important right we have and it should be treated that way! I want blood, stool, and hair samples from every voter. Period.

 

[Bill Cosby]

and I'd put their actual work hours up against anyone in any job.

lol

 

[CatsFanGG24]

The first opportunity for a teacher in Fayette county to make $80K is after 22 years and having obtained your Ph.D. And no... the starting teachers aren't getting $2K bumps. The first $2K bump comes when they reach their 10th year of teaching.

No matter the performance? Teachers can be let go for any reason prior to reaching tenure and 1 in 5 leave teaching in the first 5 years because of the pressures and relative low pay. Some school systems are almost forced to keep teachers they would rather replace because they can't get people to take the jobs.

As for 9 months a year...you're obviously not a teacher nor married to one. It's a much bigger commitment than most realize. There are commitments beyond just the school year. Yeah, there are a few that do the minimum to get by but that's true in every profession. My mother, father, wife and daughter are/were all teachers and I'd put their actual work hours up against anyone in any job.

So you agree 80k is possible? Thanks...and my 80k teacher wasn't a DR.

"Some school systems are almost forced to keep teachers, rather than replace." So you would agree it isn't performance based considering they have to keep garbage teachers?

"Yeah, there are a few who do the minimum." So you agree - 9 months a year...and if/when they get a summer job working for the district they are paid out the ass...so don't give me that shit.

If your mom, wife, sister and daughter weren't getting the 2k bump - they were doing it wrong according to my many teacher friends in JCPS.

 

[qwesley]

IF fuzz's wife is a teacher does anyone think she is rushing home? And likely drinks herself to an early bedtime?

 

[fuzz77]

Welcome to our world. You did not seem to mind when Obama care was being passed through in the same manner.

FYI, with regards to Obamacare (ACA) there were...
14 bipartisan roundtables of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee
13 bipartisan hearings of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee
20 bipartisan walkthroughs of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee
53 meetings and negotiations of the Finance Committee
17 roundtables, summits of the Finance Committee
13 days of markups

all over 35 weeks, 169 hours... but keep believing

 

[AustinTXCat]

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

6+ paragraphs and not even a hint of a solution. And teachers aren't our weakest members, hell in most counties they are upper class

In case you missed this part.
Either we'll have to raise taxes, which won't happen, or it will be necessary to cut benefits across the board at some point down the line

This is the only solution which is why it never happens. For legislators choices are: Raise taxes = lose your job. Cut benefits = lose your job.
Somebody’s ox always has to get gored.

 

[WKBlu]

 

[WKBlu]

CNN just acts weird now.

 

[Tskware]

Being moved to the Political Thread in 3, 2, 1 . . .

 

[Bill Cosby]

FYI, with regards to Obamacare (ACA) there were...
14 bipartisan roundtables of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee
13 bipartisan hearings of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee
20 bipartisan walkthroughs of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee
53 meetings and negotiations of the Finance Committee
17 roundtables, summits of the Finance Committee
13 days of markups

all over 35 weeks, 169 hours... but keep believing

lol

 

[WKBlu]

 

[Bill Cosby]

View embedded media

Ha. That's awesome.

 

[Willy4UK]

View embedded media

Lol. One of the best ideas yet.