POLITICAL THREAD

[qwesley]

In general, salaries are lower at UK and for other state jobs...benefits are better than comparative jobs in the private sector

This is patently false, numerous studies have killed this myth...esp in feds and universities. States are generally lower for skilled positions but the longterm payout is still much longer if you can withstand working in the state govt environment until retirement.

 

[fuzz77]

My daughter is a HS senior.

We've applied to Stanford, Vandy, UK, Miami of Ohio, Harvard, NYU, and Transy (yes, she's really smart lol).

Stanford, Harvard and Vandy are about $65m per year. UK is what, about $22m, depending on meal plan/housing?

No way should any degree at any school cost $260m for 4 years.

Depending on what she plans to do her job opportunities with a Stanford, Harvard, Vandy degree could very well pay for themselves pretty quickly. I agree with you that it SHOULDN'T cost that much...

Google "average starting salary of whatever graduate...Harvard = $60,000... UK = $38,000...that is almost 60% higher. If that spread continues through one's career it would make the $172K premium you paid a bargain.

Add the value of the contacts you make at a school like Harvard, Stanford, etc.

Of course it all comes down to who is paying ;-)

 

[qwesley]

Im not sure what youre asking.

I've pointed out the timing of the Wright stories to him and others. Not really covered until March of 2008 after he pretty much had the nomination in the bag and plenty of time for it to be old news in the fall. Twas ignored, unsurprisingly.

 

[JHB4UK]

 

[qwesley]

This is a few years old but it was the most specific in comparing the jobs:

Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.
Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.

Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.



CHART: Federal salaries compared to private-sector


These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

 

[fuzz77]

This is patently false, numerous studies have killed this myth...esp in feds and universities. States are generally lower for skilled positions but the longterm payout is still much longer if you can withstand working in the state govt environment until retirement.

What part of my statement was false? You're clueless as always.
"Long term payout" makes assumptions that fit very few workers. Yes, if you're an office clerk and work for the state for 40 years and then retire, over your lifetime you'll probably get more than had you done similar work in the private sector. However, if you're a CPA, engineer, or other professional they you'll make considerably less in the public sector.

 

[ukalumni00]

Painful and not surprising.

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Jesus Christ. Our future leaders in this country. Just a completely clueless generation being raised right now. I propose we start taxing stupidity now. That would shut these entitled little brats up.

 

[fuzz77]

This is a few years old but it was the most specific in comparing the jobs:

Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.
Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.

Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available.



CHART: Federal salaries compared to private-sector


These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Cooks, clerks and janitors... Seeing that the overall majority of cooks are working for McDonald's, Wendy's, Waffle House, Denny's...

 

[Bill Cosby]

If you're under qualified, lazy, shitty at your job and lack work ethic, you can make much more in the public sector than you can in the private.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

My daughter is a HS senior.

We've applied to Stanford, Vandy, UK, Miami of Ohio, Harvard, NYU, and Transy (yes, she's really smart lol).

Stanford, Harvard and Vandy are about $65m per year. UK is what, about $22m, depending on meal plan/housing?

No way should any degree at any school cost $260m for 4 years.

We've? You going too?

 

[starchief5]

If you're under qualified, lazy, shitty at your job and lack work ethic, you can make much more in the public sector than you can in the private.

Work in the public sector, do you?

 

[qwesley]

Cooks, clerks and janitors... Seeing that the overall majority of cooks are working for McDonald's, Wendy's, Waffle House, Denny's...

fuzz, it really doesn't matter what was given as evidence, you would deflect. Other studies out there too but spin away. I'm sure USA Today went out of their way to compare in a way to made public workers look bad, yep. You can look on opensecrets.org and the amount of public service union and public university money given to Dems to protect them is obvious. Again, only for reasonable minds though.

 

[KingOfBBN]

This is one of the many reasons the voting age should be raised.

 

[Deeeefense]

Study how many colleges today have nonteaching 6 figure "vice presidents" versus 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. Ponzi scheme, force tuitions sky high to fund lavish salaries of far left, Fed gov now in total control of college debt, degrees so plentiful they do not result in high paying jobs or ability to pay said Debt.

No doubt the higher education system has become a corrupt money machine, and needs top to bottom reform.

 

[Mojocat]

Saw this piece at Politico making the case that Cruz is a much bigger threat to get the R nomination than most understand or are willing to admit. I am more confident than many about the chances of a Republican vs Hilary next year - but there are a couple of Rs who would simply get trounced, and I have to think Cruz is in that category:

"The indications of the strength of Cruz’s operation and the shrewdness of his positioning are mounting.

He had more cash on hand at the end of the third quarter than any other Republican.

He has major super PAC backing.

He assessed the anti-establishment mood in the party more accurately than any of the other traditional Republican candidates.

He reacted to the rise of Trump very deftly for his purposes.

He has seen a couple of key potential competitors, Scott Walker and Rand Paul, either hit a wall or badly underperform.

He has a discernible ideological and geographic base.

He has, relatedly, a path to the nomination that is simple and intuitive (win Iowa, consolidate the right and beat an establishment that might be too fractured and unpopular to prevail this time).

He lights up pretty much every conservative audience he addresses.

He is an excellent debater, and he simply doesn’t make tactical or rhetorical mistakes.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...hreat-for-the-nomination-213351#ixzz3rOUiiPOe"

 

[DaBossIsBack]

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This is one of the many reasons the voting age should be raised.

I agree it should be raised. Also should be noted that this was done at Texas Tech University where the majority of the student body are conservatives.

 

[P19978]

If you're under qualified, lazy, shitty at your job and lack work ethic, you can make much more in the public sector than you can in the private.

No question you see more of this in the public sector.

Doesnt make them bad people, but the word "hustle" is not part of their vocabulary.

 

[From-the-stands]

Saw this piece at Politico making the case that Cruz is a much bigger threat to get the R nomination than most understand or are willing to admit. I am more confident than many about the chances of a Republican vs Hilary next year - but there are a couple of Rs who would simply get trounced, and I have to think Cruz is in that category:

"The indications of the strength of Cruz’s operation and the shrewdness of his positioning are mounting.

He had more cash on hand at the end of the third quarter than any other Republican.

He has major super PAC backing.

He assessed the anti-establishment mood in the party more accurately than any of the other traditional Republican candidates.

He reacted to the rise of Trump very deftly for his purposes.

He has seen a couple of key potential competitors, Scott Walker and Rand Paul, either hit a wall or badly underperform.

He has a discernible ideological and geographic base.

He has, relatedly, a path to the nomination that is simple and intuitive (win Iowa, consolidate the right and beat an establishment that might be too fractured and unpopular to prevail this time).

He lights up pretty much every conservative audience he addresses.

He is an excellent debater, and he simply doesn’t make tactical or rhetorical mistakes.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...hreat-for-the-nomination-213351#ixzz3rOUiiPOe"

Didn't have time to read the article, but Cruz should be the natural candidate for Trump and Carson followers if they fall away.

 

[KingOfBBN]

I agree it should be raised. Also should be noted that this was done at Texas Tech University where the majority of the student body are conservatives.

When you ask three black students who won the Civil War and they don't know, that's pretty pitiful.

Also, you could do this at any campus. There's a ton of examples of liberal universities that are just brain-dead stupid. This one is at UC Berkley.

 

[warrior-cat]

No it really wasn't OK and he took a political beating for it.

I didn't read the Carson story but I can say from personal experience of running a business you would be surprised at the number of convicted felons you probably talk to every day and never know it. I had a guy working for me for over a year before I found out he had done hard time. When I started doing background checks on applicants about one third had some sort of criminal record and half of those were felony convictions. The thing is when you meet these people you would never know it.

Carson is a flawed candidate but I wouldn't hold this against him.

 

[KingOfBBN]

How crazy would it be if Bernie wins the nomination? I know it's a long shot but most of the college kids I have seen are fascinated by him.

 

[warrior-cat]

Hey Neil, up through about 1980 states funded 80-90% of public higher education. That's why when I was at UK that tuition was less than $300/semester. When my mother attended in the 1940's tuition was $15 a semester. Who was paying for it then?

Do you know?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Saw this piece at Politico making the case that Cruz is a much bigger threat to get the R nomination than most understand or are willing to admit. I am more confident than many about the chances of a Republican vs Hilary next year - but there are a couple of Rs who would simply get trounced, and I have to think Cruz is in that category:

"The indications of the strength of Cruz’s operation and the shrewdness of his positioning are mounting.

He had more cash on hand at the end of the third quarter than any other Republican.

He has major super PAC backing.

He assessed the anti-establishment mood in the party more accurately than any of the other traditional Republican candidates.

He reacted to the rise of Trump very deftly for his purposes.

He has seen a couple of key potential competitors, Scott Walker and Rand Paul, either hit a wall or badly underperform.

He has a discernible ideological and geographic base.

He has, relatedly, a path to the nomination that is simple and intuitive (win Iowa, consolidate the right and beat an establishment that might be too fractured and unpopular to prevail this time).

He lights up pretty much every conservative audience he addresses.

He is an excellent debater, and he simply doesn’t make tactical or rhetorical mistakes.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...hreat-for-the-nomination-213351#ixzz3rOUiiPOe"

Cruz is absolutely a real threat to win the nomination. But as you pointed out, he'd be killed in the general.

 

[Catfan in Tn.]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/13/hud-seeks-smoking-ban-in-public-housing/?intcmp=hplnws
Feds look to possibly ban smoking in federal housing.

 

[kghighroller]

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This is one of the many reasons the voting age should be raised.

So sad

 

[jamo0001]

i really DGAF how much a university charges in tuition. i just GAF how much of the loan burden the taxpayers should be underwriting.

Wanna send your daughter to Amherst to major in social work? Be my guest. But I don't wanna help her pay off the interest, much less shoulder the burden of a potential default.


Feds should only offer $X of loan underwriting to each student, not Y% of the "need" (which is based on the cost that the jackasses at the college decide to charge).

 

[warrior-cat]

Hey Neil, up through about 1980 states funded 80-90% of public higher education. That's why when I was at UK that tuition was less than $300/semester. When my mother attended in the 1940's tuition was $15 a semester. Who was paying for it then?

Do you know?

I agree it should be raised. Also should be noted that this was done at Texas Tech University where the majority of the student body are conservatives.

More proof.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

When you ask three black students who won the Civil War and they don't know, that's pretty pitiful.

Also, you could do this at any campus. There's a ton of examples of liberal universities that are just brain-dead stupid. This one is at UC Berkley.

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It is amazing really. My wife is a doctor and incredibly smart, but she thought Oklahoma was next to Oregon haha

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Love ya Warrior.

 

[argubs2]

Not a Romney fan boy, but I've said before that I truly believe only he could take down The She-Beast. The headline on Drudge last night piqued my interest, however unlikely it might be that he jumps in this.

Who has a better chance at defeating her, Romney, Trump, Carson, or Rubio?

 

[fatguy87]

It is amazing really. My wife is a doctor and incredibly smart, but she thought Oklahoma was next to Oregon haha

Doctors especially can be insanely single minded in their educational pursuit. If they don't think it'll help them get that MD, they don't care about it. I remember numerous Pre-Med students who would scream in horror at the very thought they may need to divide by 10's on an exam without a calculator.

They were great at telling what exactly was on power point slide 67 though.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.

As the article acknowledge, for many fields this is true, but not on the high end of the market for some fields. Lawyers, for example, earn a decent amount working for the feds, but a 3rd year associate at a big firm likely earns more (~$215,000 w/bonus) than pretty much any fed lawyer despite the fact that the fed lawyer could have the experience and ability of a law firm partner (ranges, but $500,000 on the low end for non-equity and $2m or more on the high end). Of course, you work less in the government than a law firm, so the per hour compensation is probably similar. Just an fyi on one area I know a little about.

 

[Mojocat]

Who has a better chance at defeating her, Romney, Trump, Carson, or Rubio?

IMO, Rubio. No way of knowing how he'll stand up to intense scrutiny, of course, but my sense is he'd handle it, and besides that, as I've said he checks all the boxes. Neither Carson nor Trump will hold up to the media dedication to their destruction. And Romney is fools' gold. On paper, he's a really good candidate. Long ago, it occurred to me that he looked to be straight out of central casting. Then I noticed that, for some reason, he just leaves people stone cold. Absolutely no connection at all on any kind of level. I think everyone knew that, but sort of talked themselves into him in 2012. The result was preordained. Not like we had much of a bench in '08 or '12 to pick from, so it's not like we screwed up. But Obama was vulnerable in '12 - unlike in '08, when a combination of Reagan and Lincoln couldn't have beaten him. This time, we have several qualified candidates. Although, as time passes, we're coming to see the difference between 'someone qualified to be President' and 'someone who can win a national election'.....

 

[jamo0001]

interestingly, polling in Florida has shown that Carson and Trump stand a better chance of beating Hillary in that state than Jeb and Rubio do.

further evidence that Florida is The Worst, imo.

 

[argubs2]

I'm sorry Mojo, but I'd liken a Rubio / Hillary contest to young boy with a Nerf sword going up against a mother Tyrannosaurus Rex who just watched her underdeveloped younglings eaten by a renegade raptor.

I just can't see it man.

Still patiently waiting for Carson and Trump to disqualify themselves via their own mouths. Carson was close last week until we realized that was just a reminder that true journalism is completely dead. I think Trump is starting to get scared of having to actually take this all the way to the house. He has to be as surprised as anyone about what's happening here.

 

[argubs2]

Also grain.

 

[Mojocat]

interestingly, polling in Florida has shown that Carson and Trump stand a better chance of beating Hillary in that state than Jeb and Rubio do.

further evidence that Florida is The Worst, imo.

Reminds of me Al Gore failing to carry Tennessee in 2000. That is curious though - maybe the full explanation is the one you offer. Occam....

I'm sorry Mojo, but I'd liken a Rubio / Hillary contest to young boy with a Nerf sword going up against a mother Tyrannosaurus Rex who just watched her underdeveloped younglings eaten by a renegade raptor.

Ha! Could very well be. I'd like to see a rendering of the movie poster.....

 

[qwesley]

As the article acknowledge, for many fields this is true, but not on the high end of the market for some fields. Lawyers, for example, earn a decent amount working for the feds, but a 3rd year associate at a big firm likely earns more (~$215,000 w/bonus) than pretty much any fed lawyer despite the fact that the fed lawyer could have the experience and ability of a law firm partner (ranges, but $500,000 on the low end for non-equity and $2m or more on the high end). Of course, you work less in the government than a law firm, so the per hour compensation is probably similar. Just an fyi on one area I know a little about.

Yes of course this does not hold true for specialized jobs.

 

[fuzz77]

Do you know?

Yeah, taxpayers paid for it
I think most evidence will show that investing in the education of it's citizenry is a good investment. Might I add that a good part of higher medical costs is due to the amount of debt required to get through medical school. Docs who accumulate $250-300K of school debt are going to require higher compensation to justify the costs.

There is a pretty clear and direct correlation between when states started reducing their funding and the explosion of tuition.

 

[Mashburned]

After Hillary we will then elect a Hispanic. 100000000000000000% lock.

Hillary won this election a few years ago, imo.