POLITICAL THREAD

[JumperJack]

“In his Farewell Address, the first president advised his fellow citizens that "Religion and morality" were the "great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens." "National morality," he added, could not exist "in exclusion of religious principle." "Virtue or morality," he concluded, as the products of religion, were "a necessary spring of popular government."

Imagine thinking that the Father of the Country, the President of the Constitutional Convention, and the first President would say this about a government that was not intended to rely upon religion and morality.

It takes a shocking amount of mental gymnastics.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

Liberal judge that takes being a pervert to another level. Great job, LIBS, ya weirdos.

Ted Cruz Asks Biden Judicial Nom To Explain Why She Ordered Male ‘Serial Child Rapist’ To Be Housed In Women’s Prison

Republican Sen. Ted Cruz grilled United States Magistrate Judge Sarah Netburn about a case centering around a serial rapist during a confirmation hearing.

dailycaller.com

 

[mdlUK.1]

 

[UK_fan_41102]

Drug dealers will soon be called “unlicensed pharmacists".

 

[UK_fan_41102]

 

[sambowieshin]

There is no part of the Bible that you can use to justify abortion on demand. And whether you will ever understand or not, the fact is that the argument you’re making is only made by pro-abortion people because they want ALL abortions to be legal.

We can see that this is true because they NEVER seek to compromise on it. It’s all or none. Haven’t you asked yourself why that is?

This is so because this single issue keeps one of the two primary anchors of the democrats constituency in line: crazy white liberal women.

Do you not ever read any of my responses?? I have NEVER one time advocated for late term abortion on demand or as a means of birth control.

99 percent of the cases of late term abortion are due to threats to the mother's health or babies that are not viable anyway.
Just because I am opposed to abortion with no exceptions for rape/incest doesn't mean I'm for late term abortions or abortion beyond the first trimester.
My biggest gripe with abortion laws is not allowing exceptions and with the state dictating what decisions a doctor makes related to the mother's/baby's health.....It has zero to do with unfettered late term abortions.
I've never personally known anyone that is for that.... including myself.

 

[BlueRunner11]

All bull. The Founders were learned men. Scholars, not men of faith. Jefferson even made his own Bible where he cut out all the silly supernatural crap and left what he felt to be the important moral lessons. Our country was founded on our shared humanity, not Christianity in any way. As explicitly stated in official documents of the time. Art 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, 1796:

Jefferson got on board with Unitarians likely for political reasons. Federalists calling him an atheist and newspapers reporting his sexual affairs with his slaves, it was politically expedient for him to do so at the time. His “Bible” came of a result of that relationship. Maybe it’s where Trump got the idea.

The Treaty…After that Treaty was broken, that phrase was omitted in the ones to follow. Interesting, a nation adamant about separating itself from Christianity wouldn’t feel the need to include that again when most of the same wording from the original was included.

America is not solely a Christian Nation, and I wouldn’t argue it was ever intended to be…but it’s disingenuous to deny its influence permeated much of the fabric when founding the country.

Adams, being President during the ratification of the Treaty, writes the following in his 1798 Proclamation…

“The safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him, but a duty whose natural influence is favorable to the promotion of that morality and piety without which social happiness can not exist nor the blessings of a free government be enjoyed.”

Hardly a secular take.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Do you not ever read any of my responses?? I have NEVER one time advocated for late term abortion on demand or as a means of birth control.

99 percent of the cases of late term abortion are due to threats to the mother's health or babies that are not viable anyway.
Just because I am opposed to abortion with no exceptions for rape/incest doesn't mean I'm for late term abortions or abortion beyond the first trimester.
My biggest gripe with abortion laws is not allowing exceptions and with the state dictating what decisions a doctor makes related to the mother's/baby's health.....It has zero to do with unfettered late term abortions.
I've never personally known anyone that is for that.... including myself.

Because the same principle exists in the “exceptions” as it does in a lunatic liberal yelling she can’t wait to rip her baby out with a coat hanger.

An innocent life and the future thereof a human being is being destroyed.

 

[blubo]

this islam ideology will never change or assimilate into a civilized western culture

 

[BigBlueDave]

View embedded media

So, she was priced out at her go to restaurants and has to now talk up Olive Garden.

She’d prolly tell you the economy is roaring because the bars are full gamedays.

Who wants to tell her that S150 meal was $85 four years ago?

My family of 4 ate at Olive Garden for the first time, and our $150 meal felt like an excellent value

We tried Olive Garden for the first time. My family agreed the chain had great food and portion sizes and was a great value — we'll be back.

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Guys, the libs are acting up again

 

[BlueRunner11]

So, she was priced out at her go to restaurants and has to now talk up Olive Garden.

She’d prolly tell you the economy is roaring because the bars are full gamedays.

Who wants to tell her that S150 meal was $85 four years ago?

My family of 4 ate at Olive Garden for the first time, and our $150 meal felt like an excellent value

We tried Olive Garden for the first time. My family agreed the chain had great food and portion sizes and was a great value — we'll be back.

ca.news.yahoo.com

She could recreate most of those Olive Garden meals watching YouTube and for prob 20 bucks at home.

 

[blubo]

So, she was priced out at her go to restaurants and has to now talk up Olive Garden.

She’d prolly tell you the economy is roaring because the bars are full gamedays.

Who wants to tell her that S150 meal was $85 four years ago?

My family of 4 ate at Olive Garden for the first time, and our $150 meal felt like an excellent value

We tried Olive Garden for the first time. My family agreed the chain had great food and portion sizes and was a great value — we'll be back.

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[BlueRunner11]

View embedded media

You know he’s talking about ze bugs, isn’t he?

You all ever see Netanyahu sampling that 3D printed fish? “Delicious” he said. Haha

These people are psychopaths.

 

[sambowieshin]

Jefferson got on board with Unitarians likely for political reasons. Federalists calling him an atheist and newspapers reporting his sexual affairs with his slaves, it was politically expedient for him to do so at the time. His “Bible” came of a result of that relationship. Maybe it’s where Trump got the idea.

The Treaty…After that Treaty was broken, that phrase was omitted in the ones to follow. Interesting, a nation adamant about separating itself from Christianity wouldn’t feel the need to include that again when most of the same wording from the original was included.

America is not solely a Christian Nation, and I wouldn’t argue it was ever intended to be…but it’s disingenuous to deny its influence permeated much of the fabric when founding the country.

Adams, being President during the ratification of the Treaty, writes the following in his 1798 Proclamation…

“The safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him, but a duty whose natural influence is favorable to the promotion of that morality and piety without which social happiness can not exist nor the blessings of a free government be enjoyed.”

Hardly a secular take.

Like today, there was a variety of religious views and much debate over it's role in government.
James Madison was also a staunch proponent of separation of church and state.
I agree with your take that religious beliefs had an influence or they wouldn't have mentioned God and the inalienable rights granted to men.
Where I disagree with most on here is that mentioning God shows the Founding Father's intent to have a Christian based government.
That couldn't be further from the truth.
They were believers in Freedom of religion for individuals but Freedom From religion dictated by the government.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Do you have footnotes to the Declaration that the rest of us don’t? Any other meanings of words that only you know about?

Why would they have needed to make a specific reference to a Christian God? Were there competing Gods in mainstream colonial or European society?

This is as bad a take as saying the 2A couldn’t mean what it says because of whatever reason du jour. It says what it says. It means what it means. There was no need to give context because what kind of idiot doesn’t understand “shall not be infringed”? What kind of idiot thinks the society that coined the term “Creator” is anything other than the Christian God?

Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship the same God, though differently.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Like today, there was a variety of religious views and much debate over it's role in government.
James Madison was also a staunch proponent of separation of church and state.
I agree with your take that religious beliefs had an influence or they wouldn't have mentioned God and the inalienable rights granted to men.
Where I disagree with most on here is that mentioning God shows the Founding Father's intent to have a Christian based government.
That couldn't be further from the truth.
They were believers in Freedom of religion for individuals but Freedom From religion dictated by the government.

You are a caricature. Nobody wants govt in our businesses or our churches. The govt destroys everything it touches. Your schools are a great example and you a byproduct. A glorious statement to how there needs to be a separation of state/govt from almost everything.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

These religious zealots have zero interest in any facts that clearly contradict their faulty world view.
You and I post actual writings, letters, documents and quotes from Founding Fathers refuting the claim that the US was founded as a Christian nation....but they continually chose to ignore blatant facts.
It's a case study in brainwashing.

LOL G. Where exactly in the constitution is your beloved phrase, Separation of Church and State? I'll wait for either of you two great learned scholars to reply.

 

[Dionysus444]

“In his Farewell Address, the first president advised his fellow citizens that "Religion and morality" were the "great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens." "National morality," he added, could not exist "in exclusion of religious principle." "Virtue or morality," he concluded, as the products of religion, were "a necessary spring of popular government."

Imagine thinking that the Father of the Country, the President of the Constitutional Convention, and the first President would say this about a government that was not intended to rely upon religion and morality.

It takes a shocking amount of mental gymnastics.

I mean Washington was devout. He was also basically a bumpkin who didn't contribute much of note to our foundational documents. He didn't have the education and wasn't the statesman most of the others were. Outside his military career he was mostly a figurehead. You know all this, right? You're just being a contrarian?

 

[sambowieshin]

LOL G. Where exactly in the constitution is your beloved phrase, Separation of Church and State? I'll wait for either of you two great learned scholars to reply.

First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...."

The First Amendment prevents the government from creating or establishing a religion, and thereby prevents the power of the government from expanding beyond civil matters. The First Amendment also protects people's right to worship however they choose, or to not worship any God at all.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Like today, there was a variety of religious views and much debate over it's role in government.
James Madison was also a staunch proponent of separation of church and state.
I agree with your take that religious beliefs had an influence or they wouldn't have mentioned God and the inalienable rights granted to men.
Where I disagree with most on here is that mentioning God shows the Founding Father's intent to have a Christian based government.
That couldn't be further from the truth.
They were believers in Freedom of religion for individuals but Freedom From religion dictated by the government.

I get it now. You watched 'A More Perfect Union' on PBS and you now are on a James Madison fan-boy kick. That doesn't make you an expert. Rent another movie. This one is getting old.

 

[Dionysus444]

Jefferson got on board with Unitarians likely for political reasons. Federalists calling him an atheist and newspapers reporting his sexual affairs with his slaves, it was politically expedient for him to do so at the time. His “Bible” came of a result of that relationship. Maybe it’s where Trump got the idea.

The Treaty…After that Treaty was broken, that phrase was omitted in the ones to follow. Interesting, a nation adamant about separating itself from Christianity wouldn’t feel the need to include that again when most of the same wording from the original was included.

America is not solely a Christian Nation, and I wouldn’t argue it was ever intended to be…but it’s disingenuous to deny its influence permeated much of the fabric when founding the country.

Adams, being President during the ratification of the Treaty, writes the following in his 1798 Proclamation…

“The safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him, but a duty whose natural influence is favorable to the promotion of that morality and piety without which social happiness can not exist nor the blessings of a free government be enjoyed.”

Hardly a secular take.

This is the reality of the situation. The Founders had diverse options on religion just like people would today. Some were notably devout, some notably weren't. What they all agreed on and enshrined into law was that we are a secular nation where all religions are separate from the state. The phrase itself coming from one of Jefferson's letters has already been linked here in the last few pages. There is a clear wall between the two in all things, whatever the religion of any government official. Be they from 1776 or 2076.

 

[sambowieshin]

You are a caricature. Nobody wants govt in our businesses or our churches. The govt destroys everything it touches. Your schools are a great example and you a byproduct. A glorious statement to how there needs to be a separation of state/govt from almost everything.

Our schools have done a damn good job of educating millions of Americans. They have educated and helped to create many of this nation's best doctors, engineers, scientists and military leaders.
The far right's disdain for our education system is the very reason it is suffering so badly now and getting worse.
Amazing how that works. Defund education, trash the teachers, starve it of revenue and then say...."Those schools are terrible".

 

[DrH. Lecter]

First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...."

The First Amendment prevents the government from creating or establishing a religion, and thereby prevents the power of the government from expanding beyond civil matters. The First Amendment also protects people's right to worship however they choose, or to not worship any God at all.

Uh. No. Dont see the phrase at all. That phrase is very clear. CONGRESS shall make no LAW respecting ESTABLISHMENT of religion. IOW, Congress cannot create a Church of America. PERIOD. No CofE in the language of the time.

So back to the SEPARATION thingy. Where is that written?

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I mean Washington was devout. He was also basically a bumpkin who didn't contribute much of note to our foundational documents. He didn't have the education and wasn't the statesman most of the others were. Outside his military career he was mostly a figurehead. You know all this, right? You're just being a contrarian?

What amount of education did Lincoln have?

 

[vhcat70]

I havent seen your outrage at biden OR his admin for ordering a hit on his political rival.

No idea what you are talking about? The trial or his life?

 

[Dionysus444]

I agree with your take that religious beliefs had an influence or they wouldn't have mentioned God and the inalienable rights granted to men.

Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially worship the same God, though differently.

The use of Creator was specifically not a reference to that Abrahamic God. It's the terminology of the Deists of the day, which basically believed in a creative force that kicked the universe off and then stood back and watched. It's basically just science, study of the natural world 'given to us by God'. They didn't have the Big Bang Theory and theoretical physics, it was contained in 'naturalism'. Deism is specifically a rejection of institutionalized religious thought that claimed monopoly on knowledge. Its heart is rationalism, as opposed to the doctrines of any religion.

 

[Dionysus444]

LOL G. Where exactly in the constitution is your beloved phrase, Separation of Church and State? I'll wait for either of you two great learned scholars to reply.

The legal foundation is in the First Amendment. You know, the one you thought was the 2nd. The phrase itself comes from one of Jefferson's letters, he already linked it:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." - Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Danbury Baptists 1802

 

[Dionysus444]

What amount of education did Lincoln have?

As much as he had access to. He was a voracious learner who always regretted his lack of a formal education and made sure to support education wherever he could.

 

[JumperJack]

Do you not ever read any of my responses?? I have NEVER one time advocated for late term abortion on demand or as a means of birth control.

99 percent of the cases of late term abortion are due to threats to the mother's health or babies that are not viable anyway.
Just because I am opposed to abortion with no exceptions for rape/incest doesn't mean I'm for late term abortions or abortion beyond the first trimester.
My biggest gripe with abortion laws is not allowing exceptions and with the state dictating what decisions a doctor makes related to the mother's/baby's health.....It has zero to do with unfettered late term abortions.
I've never personally known anyone that is for that.... including myself.

Again…what YOU are for is not what the people that YOU vote for want. They want unlimited infanticide because lack of accountability is their bedrock principal in all things, from crime to student loans to abortion and beyond.

You are saying, YOURSELF, that you agree with the overwhelming number of Republicans about it. While in the next breath saying that this amounts to religion running the country!

While they use “abortion rights” as the rally cry for millions of deluded and heartless women.

Let’s be real: you can never be a democrat and want restrictions on it. Is that not obvious?

 

[Mash 2.4]

The use of Creator was specifically not a reference to that Abrahamic God. It's the terminology of the Deists of the day, which basically believed in a creative force that kicked the universe off and then stood back and watched. It's basically just science, study of the natural world 'given to us by God'. They didn't have the Big Bang Theory and theoretical physics, it was contained in 'naturalism'. Deism is specifically a rejection of institutionalized religious thought that claimed monopoly on knowledge. Its heart is rationalism, as opposed to the doctrines of any religion.

I’m gonna agree with Dion on most of this. The founders had a stated goal of keeping religion and governance separate. Many were masons and believed in a “great architect” who crafted the universe. But as Dion described, they were rational men. I do believe they would look upon many of the ideas of todays liberal culture as highly irrational. And would look upon Karl Marx as the lazy, degenerate grifter that he was.

 

[sambowieshin]

The use of Creator was specifically not a reference to that Abrahamic God. It's the terminology of the Deists of the day, which basically believed in a creative force that kicked the universe off and then stood back and watched. It's basically just science, study of the natural world 'given to us by God'. They didn't have the Big Bang Theory and theoretical physics, it was contained in 'naturalism'. Deism is specifically a rejection of institutionalized religious thought that claimed monopoly on knowledge. Its heart is rationalism, as opposed to the doctrines of any religion.

When I used the term "religious beliefs" I wasn't specifying it as Christian beliefs.
I meant it more broadly as in whatever religion they followed....whether it be more of a belief in a secular Civil Society ideology, Deism or Christianity.
I meant "Religion" more as their "belief system" rather than the Christian religion.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

As much as he had access to. He was a voracious learner who always regretted his lack of a formal education and made sure to support education wherever he could.

How much did Washington have access to?

 

[JumperJack]

I mean Washington was devout. He was also basically a bumpkin who didn't contribute much of note to our foundational documents. He didn't have the education and wasn't the statesman most of the others were. Outside his military career he was mostly a figurehead. You know all this, right? You're just being a contrarian?

One of us is being a contrarian. Possibly the one saying that the most respected man in our history was a bumpkin. His farewell address alone guided policy and government for over a century.

 

[Lost In FL]

No idea what you are talking about? The trial or his life?

For Biden putting a hit out for his political rival. The FACT that deadly force was authorized at the maralago raid. You, and the lefties, seem to be okay with that.

 

[BlueRunner11]

The use of Creator was specifically not a reference to that Abrahamic God. It's the terminology of the Deists of the day, which basically believed in a creative force that kicked the universe off and then stood back and watched. It's basically just science, study of the natural world 'given to us by God'. They didn't have the Big Bang Theory and theoretical physics, it was contained in 'naturalism'. Deism is specifically a rejection of institutionalized religious thought that claimed monopoly on knowledge. Its heart is rationalism, as opposed to the doctrines of any religion.

It may not be a direct reference to the Abrahamic God, but it’s not an exclusion either. That’s part of the genius of the wording. Men like John Jay and Thomas Jefferson can arrive at the same place with the meaning of the text despite having a different picture in their head of the word “Creator.”

 

[DrH. Lecter]

The legal foundation is in the First Amendment. You know, the one you thought was the 2nd. The phrase itself comes from one of Jefferson's letters, he already linked it:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." - Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Danbury Baptists 1802

So? TJ was entitled to his opinion. Meaningless today. Just like the founders never envisioned an AR15 making the 2nd ripe for a broad interpretation today as you would assert. So the first can too be reimagined more broadly.

 

[TheFrontRunner]

 

[Dionysus444]

How much did Washington have access to?

A formal one until his mom yanked it and he took a different path through life. Which was obviously a pivotal one in the founding of our great nation. But that doesn't make his background typical of the Founding Fathers. He was the exception, not the rule.

 

[Dionysus444]

One of us is being a contrarian. Possibly the one saying that the most respected man in our history was a bumpkin. His farewell address alone guided policy and government for over a century.

It's not a judgement. Washington kicked ass. A freedom fighter of upstanding character. Who insisted on stepping down after only two terms so as not to create any tradition of American monarchy. Imagine if that had been Trump...