North Carolina Scandal Etc

[Clive Gollings]

But how will the NCAA no longer stand. They have a white knuckle death grip on college athletics. Who's going to separate? Them dissolving seems like a pie in the sky wish to me. Sure they took a bit hit with the O'Bannon case, and sure everyone knows they are corrupt beyond reproach. Who is going to organize against them? I read this over and over, but don't see a reasonable format to their end.

 

[preacherfan]

But how will the NCAA no longer stand. They have a white knuckle death grip on college athletics. Who's going to separate? Them dissolving seems like a pie in the sky wish to me. Sure they took a bit hit with the O'Bannon case, and sure everyone knows they are corrupt beyond reproach. Who is going to organize against them? I read this over and over, but don't see a reasonable format to their end.

I think the ONLY way that the NCAA can fall is IF IF IF IF the major conferences decide to go on their own. But, what is the incentive to do that? Schools and the NCAA are raking in millions. Money talks louder than corruption.

 

[JPScott]

But how will the NCAA no longer stand. They have a white knuckle death grip on college athletics. Who's going to separate? Them dissolving seems like a pie in the sky wish to me. Sure they took a bit hit with the O'Bannon case, and sure everyone knows they are corrupt beyond reproach. Who is going to organize against them? I read this over and over, but don't see a reasonable format to their end.

Whether the NCAA is being questioned over it's usage of athletes without providing fair market compensation, their arguments for why they should be considered a not-for-profit, why they shouldn't be considered a monopoly, why they shouldn't be responsible for providing workman's compensation etc. I think that at the end of the day, the NCAA's last defense is that they provide a (free) quality education to student-athletes and this fact gives them a lot of lee-way.

If the NCAA muffs the UNC decision, then this last remaining barrier falls as the whole concept of providing a quality education is revealed as a complete sham. Losing that claim opens the floodgates from many possibles angles of attack. Whether it comes from the courts, from the US Congress, or from other organizations (including a mutiny from within) I don't know. It could come from all angles.

FWIW, here's an analogy. The NCAA is kind of like the old Soviet Union. Sure they look formidable from afar but when you look at the details, you see a whole bunch of states that have been joined together, and largely kept in place through fear. But once there's a vulnerability seen, the dam can break.

In terms of the NCAA, there's a whole lot of schools with diverse interests, resources and goals. It's a constant struggle to keep this coalition of schools together, even with what seems like unassailable power sometimes.

 

[kybassfan]

When talking about the 'worth' of a term paper, I think it misses the forest for the trees. IMO the real question is how much is it worth to the University to have key players on the basketball team remain eligible to play through the use of these classes? When you consider it that way, we're not talking hundreds of dollars, we're talking potentially millions of dollars!

Usually when one talks about extra permissible benefits it's a third party providing them to a student. This was really the University giving themselves a benefit, not only enriching themselves with a successful basketball team but amazingly saving money on having to educate their players!

This fraud is so longstanding, so wide-ranging and so brazen that really only a lack of institutional control is suitable because nothing else the NCAA has even begins to address a scandal of this magnitude.

Whether they actually bring down the hammer remains to be seen, but I do believe that if they don't, the NCAA itself won't be around much longer.

Certainly, your point is valid. Given Bobbi's propaganda of that moment, the threshold was around $100. My point was to establish at even the lowest bounds, a well written paper of modest length exceeds that value. Certainly, for the right individual, such a contraband term paper could enable millions.

In regards to the NCAA's punishment fitting the crime, that almost merits a thread of its own. I find it somewhat surprising they've not initiated some sort of damage control. They stand in judgement of the most profound infraction in the history of college athletics. Anything less than the most profound punishment strikes me as an obscene failure on their part. The potential backlash could be castrophic for them. However, they seem to be oblivious. More incompetence, I suppose.

 

[kybassfan]

I think the ONLY way that the NCAA can fall is IF IF IF IF the major conferences decide to go on their own. But, what is the incentive to do that? Schools and the NCAA are raking in millions. Money talks louder than corruption.

Corruption can be really de-stabilizing in the long term. It erodes trust. Greed eventually kicks in to fill the void.

 

[brianpoe]

But how will the NCAA no longer stand. They have a white knuckle death grip on college athletics. Who's going to separate? Them dissolving seems like a pie in the sky wish to me. Sure they took a bit hit with the O'Bannon case, and sure everyone knows they are corrupt beyond reproach. Who is going to organize against them? I read this over and over, but don't see a reasonable format to their end.

This guy had a solution...

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/06/23/1785520_calipari-envisions-4-new-super.html?rh=1

 

[martinsm30]

Whether the NCAA is being questioned over it's usage of athletes without providing fair market compensation, their arguments for why they should be considered a not-for-profit, why they shouldn't be considered a monopoly, why they shouldn't be responsible for providing workman's compensation etc. I think that at the end of the day, the NCAA's last defense is that they provide a (free) quality education to student-athletes and this fact gives them a lot of lee-way.

If the NCAA muffs the UNC decision, then this last remaining barrier falls as the whole concept of providing a quality education is revealed as a complete sham. Losing that claim opens the floodgates from many possibles angles of attack. Whether it comes from the courts, from the US Congress, or from other organizations (including a mutiny from within) I don't know. It could come from all angles.

FWIW, here's an analogy. The NCAA is kind of like the old Soviet Union. Sure they look formidable from afar but when you look at the details, you see a whole bunch of states that have been joined together, and largely kept in place through fear. But once there's a vulnerability seen, the dam can break.

In terms of the NCAA, there's a whole lot of schools with diverse interests, resources and goals. It's a constant struggle to keep this coalition of schools together, even with what seems like unassailable power sometimes.

I would also like to mention that the NCAA is a private institution made up of a large majority of public institutions. We cannot file FOIA requests against them. I have always been curious about the number of UNC*** grads as opposed to other schools that have been employed by the NCAA and what role they played at the NCAA. I have other questions I would love answered.

All of those schools get federal money that participate in the NCAA yet they can firewall themselves using a private organization. I firmly believe they should not be tax exempt. There is far too much money involved. Any pay outs should go to the conferences. Anything the NCAA receives should be taxable. Maybe Emmert would have to fly coach.

 

[BBUK]

This guy had a solution...

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/06/23/1785520_calipari-envisions-4-new-super.html?rh=1

AND, ZERO comments is telling. I state that meaning no one has an opposing response. Must have some serious teeth if some are not "nit-picking" it to death. (I remember that article when it came out thinking what a revolutionary idea. Also thinking Cal isn't worried about going along to get along.... (I liked it.)

 

[Mark Gastineau]

New guidelines for athletics, academics have unc covering bases

If officials of unc-Chapel Hill are expecting ovations and breathless cheers for their announced guidelines for athletics and academics, posted in an online report, they are likely to be sorely disappointed.

Had academic and administrative leaders been doing their due diligence of oversight, this kind of report never would have been necessary.

But that’s not what happened. The African studies program offered high grades in exchange for little or no work, and athletes were guided there by an adviser system that seemed geared more to maintaining eligibility than to helping “student athletes” get their degrees. This embarrassment, once exposed by The News & Observer’s Dan Kane, led the university to spend millions on public relations agencies to “manage” the story and millions more on a high-powered report by a Washington lawyer that basically concurred with Kane’s reports.

And in the course of all this, a courageous whistle-blower was criticized by administrators, then given a six-figure settlement and her walking papers. That remains an embarrassment.

Now the university has guidelines: Coaches aren’t to go directly to faculty members about an athlete’s grades, advisers can’t offer any information to faculty members and those faculty members aren’t allowed to ask. While this website is welcome, it comes as the university remains under investigation for one of the biggest and longest-running scandals ever in college sports. The university itself has had several internal investigations over the last five years.

And while the athletics department and the academic departments may boast of these “rules,” the truth is that athletics programs can stay above difficulty with simple honesty. Good coaches shouldn’t recruit athletes who are borderline students and might not have been admitted in part of the regular competitive admissions scramble. Once admitted, coaches should monitor the progress of athletes toward a degree, not just in maintaining their eligibility. And coaches, no matter how successful, have to be held to standards or face consequences.

Academic leaders should make it emphatically clear to boosters that the university is not for sale, not to those who’ll fund elaborate facilities catering to the wealthiest alums or anyone else. In time, coaches’ salaries should be brought back into line. Chancellors and presidents have been predicting this for years, but it hasn’t happened. It should not take a scandal to bring sober, straightforward rules into place and to expect those in charge to see that they’re enforced.

 

[Xception]

UNC is the most devious program in college without any question , they took advantage of uneducated kids .

 

[KMKAT]

If you noticed that that special counsel deals with the students that come into the university under the 'special talent' category. While 9 incoming students were in academic question and needed the board to approve their enrollment into UNC, 6 of those students were tied to revenue producing sports, namely football and both basketball programs. So while there are no names, this shows that they are still admitting students who have ongoing academic struggles.

So what has really improved in their academics other than posting a statistic about questionable admittance of special talent kids?

 

[AirRaidFan]

UNC cheated cleanly. They didn't use a prostitution ring like UofL. UNC should be commended for their morality.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Wow. Bilas being interviewed on SC about the UL stuff and the guy rattled off the various coaches and scandals lately and he included Williams. Bilas was quick to say that Williams was not named in any part of the UNC case and said "neither was the men's basketball program". What?

 

[blubo]

Wow. Bilas being interviewed on SC about the UL stuff and the guy rattled off the various coaches and scandals lately and he included Williams. Bilas was quick to say that Williams was not named in any part of the UNC case and said "neither was the men's basketball program". What?

i just heard him say that. a big WTF??

 

[preacherfan]

Wow. Bilas being interviewed on SC about the UL stuff and the guy rattled off the various coaches and scandals lately and he included Williams. Bilas was quick to say that Williams was not named in any part of the UNC case and said "neither was the men's basketball program". What?

He also said that PJ Hairston did nothing bad enough to be suspended. He and Vitale both called for the NCAA to let him play. I think Mr Bilas plays to the fans and camera and doesn't understand ethics.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Wow. Bilas being interviewed on SC about the UL stuff and the guy rattled off the various coaches and scandals lately and he included Williams. Bilas was quick to say that Williams was not named in any part of the UNC case and said "neither was the men's basketball program". What?

I'm pretty sure he meant that there were no allegations against Williams or the MBB team. Not that Williams' name doesn't appear or that it doesn't say MBB team.

 

[FiveStarCat]

UNC has a title contender this season therefore the NCAA will not announce any penalties (such as postseason ban) until after the season is over. I wish I was joking.

 

[truebluewildcat]

this is going to go one of two ways...

either the ul scandal brings so much attention to dirty collegiate athletics that it forces the media to start exposing it everywhere and the NCAA to start busting heads...

or ESPN and the NCAA will focus all they have on UL and the cards will become a convenient distraction from UNC...it's definitely a much juicier story...sex parties sell better than some "academic fraud"....NCAA will have a nice trophy scalp they can parade around so people will get off their case about not doing there job properly....

 

[1stKatMan]

It's rather odd that any and all students can be expelled from school for plagiarism, but in the case of UNC where the staff and professors that helped students cheat, these upper management deans and presidents don't take command of expediting some sort of severe punishment for bastardizing their entire reason for existing within the ranks of higher education.
This is crazy! It makes the administration of UNC appear to not be credible in the educational world. Whatever happened to rules that apply to students and plagiarism when the administration is so out f control of their own faculty?

 

[Dallas-Wild]

He also said that PJ Hairston did nothing bad enough to be suspended. He and Vitale both called for the NCAA to let him play. I think Mr Bilas plays to the fans and camera and doesn't understand ethics.

Bilas probably has things he doesn't want out.....so do not rattle the cage....cover all a$$es

 

[kybassfan]

UNC cheated cleanly. They didn't use a prostitution ring like UofL. UNC should be commended for their morality.

And no animals were harmed.

 

[W2R]

The more I watch this Louisville coverage and national media say shame on Louisville, The more I get pissed about the lack of coverage and punishment of unc. Louisville and the current regime is done even if half this stuff is found out to be false. They can't survive the shame pitino and crew has brought on the program . Damage is done ........If ESPN would spend one day covering the unc years of cheating and highlight it a little more I believe without a shadow of a doubt more would jump on and the NCAA would have to finally take a stand. I believe we will have a ruling from the NCAA, and the status of pitino and jurich within a few weeks if not sooner. All you have to do is bring it to the forefront and apply pressure. Why is unc any different

 

[Lumpy 2]

The UL scandal could have some negative implications for UNC. TheNCAA has never vacated a championship in mens basketball and now they have both teams that won championships while using players who could be declared ineligible for receiving impermissible benefits. I don't think Jurich is the type of person to remain silent if they decide to forfeit UL's championship while letting UNC off with a slap on the wrist.

 

[KMKAT]

"The country's main college sports sanctioning body, the NCAA, last month accused UNC of failing to control its intercollegiate athletics program and four other severe violations, but didn't charge the school with academic fraud."

Well folks, if this isn't academic fraud on those transcripts, then what constitutes 'academic fraud'?

From today's USA Today article on Pitino:
" ignorance is no longer an acceptable excuse. If something goes wrong on a coach’s watch, he or she has to pay the price, too."

This defines Roy to a T.

 

[martinsm30]

"The country's main college sports sanctioning body, the NCAA, last month accused UNC of failing to control its intercollegiate athletics program and four other severe violations, but didn't charge the school with academic fraud."

Well folks, if this isn't academic fraud on those transcripts, then what constitutes 'academic fraud'?

From today's USA Today article on Pitino:
" ignorance is no longer an acceptable excuse. If something goes wrong on a coach’s watch, he or she has to pay the price, too."

This defines Roy to a T.

McCants sister has brought a lawsuit accusing the NCAA and UNC*** of not supplying an education to their athletes. The NCAA is trying to extricate itself from the suit by saying they are not responsible for the validity of a college course. They are calling the fraudulent courses impermissible benefits so that opposing council can't use the word, fraud, in their case against the NCAA and the NCAA can get themselves removed from the lawsuit since the NCAA is not responsible.

 

[TheCatDaddy]

As long as John Skipper is in the ESPN wheelhouse, the UNC scandal will never receive the light it should. The only hope is pressure being applied by other news and information services.

 

[Xception]

I like Bilas but his take on the UNC situation is way out of line from his normal reasoning , for whatever reason he literally wants UNC men's basketball to get away with cheating . Surely Bilas knows that this wasn't set up for women's basketball , by his reasoning it was because they were named the most in a redacted allegations report . Also can't fathom that he thinks this was the work of random rogues and the athletes just found their way to the classes and nobody caught on for decades . Come on Jay , you may not want UNC to get hit to preserve the fallacy they created but this was all for men's basketball and the other sports were let in to water down that fact .

 

[BLEEDBLUE444]

John Skipper is the absolute worst!!! It is a joke!!! I like Bilas too, I think sometimes he just likes being the Devils advocate to the NCAA, and the protector of college basketball in general and programs and coaches.

Problem is when someone really deserves punishment, it's hard for him to deviate from his typical stance, even though he should to preserve journalistic integrity.

I also think Bilas knows that it will cheapen the value of the rivalry of Duke and UNC if this all does come to light in the future.

UNC will get what they deserve, the bells and ringing and their day of reckoning will be here soon enough...

 

[1stKatMan]

Cheating academically by players such as plagiarism, is worthy of expulsion. In the case of UNC, it's the schools administration that are involved in the subversive cheating for players eligibility. This is not in doubt at this point, but you are in damage control mode looking for the least possible translation to lessen the penalty phase.

I say to you, if a student athlete, or any student commits a simple plagiarist infraction can be expelled the penalty for those involved in this academic fraud should be expelled and or fired. If the rule of institutional control has been ignored, then there should be loss of scholarships and post season play. As a reminder of the true ethics in education should be (I believe) that this instance warrants the death penalty. These kinds of infractions attack the core of what higher learning is supposed to be about. What a mockery of the NCAA's authority.

 

[martinsm30]

I like Bilas but his take on the UNC situation is way out of line from his normal reasoning , for whatever reason he literally wants UNC men's basketball to get away with cheating . Surely Bilas knows that this wasn't set up for women's basketball , by his reasoning it was because they were named the most in a redacted allegations report . Also can't fathom that he thinks this was the work of random rogues and the athletes just found their way to the classes and nobody caught on for decades . Come on Jay , you may not want UNC to get hit to preserve the fallacy they created but this was all for men's basketball and the other sports were let in to water down that fact .

I think Jay is a company man and he is friends with Roy. Men's basketball is mentioned 27 times in the UNC*** redacted version of the notice of allegations. Below is from page 48-49 of the redacted NOA: http://www.cbssports.com/images/UNC-NCAA-NOA.pdf

Specifically, individuals in the academic administration on campus, particularly in the college of arts and sciences, did not sufficiently monitor the AFRI/AFAM and ASPSA departments or provide appropriate supervision for these academic units and their staffs. The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that

NOTICE OF ALLEGATIONS Case No. 00231 May 20, 2015 Page No. 49 __________

went unchecked for 18 years. This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball. Although the general student body also had access to the anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses, student-athletes received preferential access to these anomalous courses, enrolled in these anomalous courses at a disproportionate rate to that of the general student body and received other impermissible benefits not available to the general student body in connection with these courses.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

I think everyone is missing what he meant when he said neither Roy nor MBB were mentioned in the NOA. He meant there are no allegations against Roy or the team. This is true, and why he said the Syracuse and SMU cases are different (there were allegations against coaches in both of those).

 

[shun1]

You have issues.

My friend, that is one of the reasons I go to church. Wishing you a blessed day.

!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO ROY & STAFF !!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kybassfan]

!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOON PIE KNEW ALL ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!! NC MOST CORRUPT IN HISTORY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fixed that for you. You keep having trouble with the accuracy of those statements.

 

[Xception]

Left to their own devices UNC will always be a cheating program , they won't take responsibility for the mess they're in . It's about time to just understand that UNC will always cheat and try to hide it , we'll all be dead when their next transgressions are discovered . UNC is just like Miami Hurricanes football , of course Miami is stupid and gets caught but it's the same otherwise .

 

[Xception]

Hi Xception, I will not deny that I am mentally challenge, but I thank GOD for what I do have and make the most of it. WISHING YOU PEACE MY BROTHER!

!!!!!!!!!!!! GO ROY & STAFF !!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Acknowledgement is something your school can't do , you are one step ahead of them .

 

[kybassfan]

!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOON PIE KNEW ALL ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!! NC MOST CORRUPT IN HISTORY !!!!!!!!!!!!

And again. You should be ashamed to be associated with such corruption.

 

[kybassfan]

I think everyone is missing what he meant when he said neither Roy nor MBB were mentioned in the NOA. He meant there are no allegations against Roy or the team. This is true, and why he said the Syracuse and SMU cases are different (there were allegations against coaches in both of those).

Really?

This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball.

Sounds in scope to me. Or do you guys have two basketball teams at that cesspool?

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

Really?

This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball.

Sounds in scope to me. Or do you guys have two basketball teams at that cesspool?

Seriously though, what is the allegation? Are you saying ASPSA = MBB coaches or players?

 

[martinsm30]

I think everyone is missing what he meant when he said neither Roy nor MBB were mentioned in the NOA. He meant there are no allegations against Roy or the team. This is true, and why he said the Syracuse and SMU cases are different (there were allegations against coaches in both of those).

You're a real hoot, Brad. Should I translate the NOA in Swahili for you? If the UNC*** men's basketball team does not get torched it is because of the NCAA's corruption. You are spitting in the wind.

 

[martinsm30]

Seriously though, what is the allegation? Are you saying ASPSA = MBB coaches or players?

Dancing with semantics Brad. That is all you can do.