North Carolina Scandal Etc

[preacherfan]

Just an observation:
Bobby's line of thinking is basically identical to Bradley Bethel's from everything I have read from both. Bethel is doing a documentary on the scandal.

Watching bobby get destroyed in this thread makes me wonder why would Bethel do a documentary? If the NCAA hammers UNC, he is toast. If they don't, why would ANY UNC fan want to be reminded of 20 years of fraud, according to SACS?

BTW, here is how KW talked about the fraudulent classes (still not good):

"Wainstein called the “paper classes” that Crowder initiated “watered down” and “corrupted” versions of legitimate forms of teaching. Crowder, an administrator, not a professor, assigned high grades to student papers without reading them in full, he said."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article9205037.html#storylink=cpy

 

[jarms24]

Ok, I'll bite. Paste it again. I want to see where it says the classes were impermissible benefits (extra or not).

It doesn't matter what's pasted. You'll interpret it however you want. Bottom line is, if the NCAA didn't have a problem with the classes themselves, then there wouldn't be an issue. They also wouldn't have taken the time to speak about the classes in such detail. For that matter, they wouldn't be mentioned in the NOA at all.

Certain AFRI/AFAM courses were anomalous because they were designated as lecture courses but were taught as independent study courses with little, if any, attendance requirements, minimal to no faculty interaction, lax paper writing standards and artificially high final grades.

Are you seriously going to sit here and say that the classes weren't an impermissible benefit after reading that?

 

[preacherfan]

It doesn't matter what's pasted. You'll interpret it however you want. Bottom line is, if the NCAA didn't have a problem with the classes themselves, then there wouldn't be an issue. They also wouldn't have taken the time to speak about the classes in such detail ...

Certain AFRI/AFAM courses were anomalous because they were designated as lecture courses but were taught as independent study courses with little, if any, attendance requirements, minimal to no faculty interaction, lax paper writing standards and artificially high final grades.

Are you seriously going to sit here and say that the classes weren't an impermissible benefit after reading that?

Bethel is now trapped. He has suckered people out of over $100K for a "documentary" on how the scandal had nothing to do with athletics but the truth continues to come out that UNC blatantly cheated to keep athletes eligible.

I would actually feel sorry for the guy if he hadn't tried to destroy people like Willingham. The guy is a weasel who thought he found an opportunity to make a name for himself. However, his complete lack of understanding of the scandal, the NCAA and common sense has now crashed home and he is desperate to salvage something.

 

[KMKAT]

I believe we're heading into the 6th consecutive year where Roy hasn't signed a Top 5 player. Roy says "all the junk" has something to do with it. Roy calls it the "bus stop" system. After this current roster, Roy's coaching will need another gear going forward.

I say string this out a couple more years.....it wouldn't surprise me after looking at Syracuse for close to a decade.

 

[kybassfan]

It doesn't matter what's pasted. You'll interpret it however you want. Bottom line is, if the NCAA didn't have a problem with the classes themselves, then there wouldn't be an issue. They also wouldn't have taken the time to speak about the classes in such detail. For that matter, they wouldn't be mentioned in the NOA at all.

Certain AFRI/AFAM courses were anomalous because they were designated as lecture courses but were taught as independent study courses with little, if any, attendance requirements, minimal to no faculty interaction, lax paper writing standards and artificially high final grades.

Are you seriously going to sit here and say that the classes weren't an impermissible benefit after reading that?

I think Bobbi is trying to convince himself that things will be ok. Anyone that myopic in their interpretation of various sources of information isn't looking for facts or trying to assemble them for either the truth they represent. Nor are they trying to predict eventual outcomes. Bobbi is grasping for reassurance that the slime pit in NC isn't on the verge of annihilation.

In that regards, I have only one ray of hope for him. That would be the incompetent arbitrary nature of the NCAA.

Bobbi would be better advised to look to a quarter than the white space between words and lines to predict the outcome here.

 

[jarms24]

I just hope he comes here to eat his crow when the hammer drops, which it will. Games will be vacated and at least '05 is coming down, possibly '09. UNC*** is going to lose hundreds of wins. Roy is most likely going to get shredded. It's gonna be fun bumping this thread, and his posts when doomsday arrives.

 

[kybassfan]

I just hope he comes here to eat his crow when the hammer drops, which it will. Games will be vacated and at least '05 is coming down, possibly '09. UNC*** is going to lose hundreds of wins. Roy is most likely going to get shredded. It's gonna be fun bumping this thread, and his posts when doomsday arrives.

Oh, yes, that would be entertaining but I'd expect Bobbi to come here to gloat about how NC wasn't destroyed for any penalty less than 3 years on death row. That will be the key indicator that he knew they were deserving of a maximum penalty by the NCAA.

Bobbi will eat his crow hidden away in a small closet. Likely in tears.

 

[the stat man]

I have hated UNCheat since I have started watching collage basketball , and I would like nothing more than to see them get the death penalty , well them and U 0f Smell lol. I just don't think the NCAA has the guts to do it. I think it will be as watered down as it can possibly be.

 

[jarms24]

I have hated UNCheat since I have started watching collage basketball , and I would like nothing more than to see them get the death penalty , well them and U 0f Smell lol. I just don't think the NCAA has the guts to do it. I think it will be as watered down as it can possibly be.

They're not going to risk their own prosperity to save UNC**. Plus, according to Manalishi (been right so far), there's some other programs ready to pounce if the NCAA drops the ball on this. Last thing they want is another lawsuit, when they're already being heavily scrutinized. They're going to get gutted.

 

[catfan111]

Lol at bobby saying SACS doesn't matter.

 

[preacherfan]

Lol at bobby saying SACS doesn't matter.

That demonstrates his desperation.

While this board has a LOT of bias, I've always noticed that we also have a number of posters who will be quite objective even if it goes against the natural bias. The fact that NOBODY is agreeing with bobby and direct citations are being given to support their positions, it is clear that Bobby doesn't have a leg to stand on.

If he really is Bethel, he has to be having a lot of sleepless nights. IF I were he, I think I would cut my losses and run. But, I suspect he will try to release a charade of a documentary and then it will be even worse. I've said from day one that this project is doomed to failure. Bobby can even quote me on that one!

 

[ThroughBlue]

Bobby still doesnt think *NC gets hammered?

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

No, it doesn't appear that UT compliance agrees with you because they don't. When 16.01.1.1 applies, the athlete/school does not need to petition the NCAA for reinstatement. The athlete simply pays the charity, the school reports everything that happened to the NCAA, and everyone moves on. For example, if a school gave a student $20 too much for a meal, the student pays it back and the school reports it. Nothing more is needed.

In instances beyond that, the athlete is required to sit out while the school gathers all of the facts. The school then sends the facts to the NCAA and petitions for reinstatement. The NCAA will evaluate the facts and assess a penalty based on who paid the benefit and how much it was. You'll notice that 16.01.1.1 never mentions sitting out games, yet the UT pdf you linked does. That's because they are two different processes entirely.

This only indicates that in both instances, the NCAA may require the athlete to repay something to a charity.

Well then, I guess we'll see who's right in a few months. It will be obvious because if what you're saying is true then UNC will be vacating over a decade of games.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

I just hope he comes here to eat his crow when the hammer drops, which it will. Games will be vacated and at least '05 is coming down, possibly '09. UNC*** is going to lose hundreds of wins. Roy is most likely going to get shredded. It's gonna be fun bumping this thread, and his posts when doomsday arrives.

I will be here to eat crow and accept that I was wrong. Will you if you are wrong?

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

No, it doesn't appear that UT compliance agrees with you because they don't. When 16.01.1.1 applies, the athlete/school does not need to petition the NCAA for reinstatement. The athlete simply pays the charity, the school reports everything that happened to the NCAA, and everyone moves on. For example, if a school gave a student $20 too much for a meal, the student pays it back and the school reports it. Nothing more is needed.

In instances beyond that, the athlete is required to sit out while the school gathers all of the facts. The school then sends the facts to the NCAA and petitions for reinstatement. The NCAA will evaluate the facts and assess a penalty based on who paid the benefit and how much it was. You'll notice that 16.01.1.1 never mentions sitting out games, yet the UT pdf you linked does. That's because they are two different processes entirely.

This only indicates that in both instances, the NCAA may require the athlete to repay something to a charity.

From 16.01.1.1
Unless otherwise noted, for violations of Bylaw 16 in which the value of the benefit is $100 or less, the eligibility of the student-athlete shall not be affected conditioned upon the student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. The student-athlete, however, shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the impermissible benefit until the student-athlete repays the benefit. For violations of Bylaw 16 in which there is no monetary value to the benefit, violations shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, such violations shall not affect the student-athlete’s eligibility.

It does say the player is ineligible. Also, what year manual are you using?

 

[kybassfan]

From 16.01.1.1
Unless otherwise noted, for violations of Bylaw 16 in which the value of the benefit is $100 or less, the eligibility of the student-athlete shall not be affected conditioned upon the student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. The student-athlete, however, shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the impermissible benefit until the student-athlete repays the benefit. For violations of Bylaw 16 in which there is no monetary value to the benefit, violations shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, such violations shall not affect the student-athlete’s eligibility.

It does say the player is ineligible. Also, what year manual are you using?

Going rate for term papers is 10 - 30 bucks a page. 5 page paper puts in in the monetary scope. This puts the fraudulent classes in scope monetarily.

Institutional violations can affect the eligibility of the team resulting in same loss of game/result/proceeds for the corrupt school

Well then, I guess we'll see who's right in a few months. It will be obvious because if what you're saying is true then UNC will be vacating over a decade of games.

Decade? Got the perv swerve going again? There's a difference between "in scope" and actual penalty. There may be a decade in scope. However, if they lose even one game, your whole line of reason will be proven to be total BS, just like your school

I will be here to eat crow and accept that I was wrong. Will you if you are wrong?

I call BS on that one. What you will do is come back here gloating that your scum bag institution avoided the punishment they are due. You'll gloat over having avoid the penalty due the proven academic corruption which has overshadowed the entire sport. In short you will reflect the total lack of ethics displayed by the cheating athletic program you support.

Quit picking nits Bobbi. Own the fact that you are supporting the most corrupt program in history.

 

[jameslee32]

My gawd! Why are the documented rules even paramount when the interpretation of said rules seems to ALWAYS be the sticking point??

And someone, anyone please show me this biased media! For crying out loud, ESPN and print journalism outside of an article here and there, have been mostly silent on the matter for oh, 20+ years. Without the Observer and NCST, not a peep about athletes in fake classes.

 

[jarms24]

I will be here to eat crow and accept that I was wrong. Will you if you are wrong?

I'm here all the time, but I won't be wrong. Book it.

 

[kybassfan]

That demonstrates his desperation.

While this board has a LOT of bias, I've always noticed that we also have a number of posters who will be quite objective even if it goes against the natural bias. The fact that NOBODY is agreeing with bobby and direct citations are being given to support their positions, it is clear that Bobby doesn't have a leg to stand on.

If he really is Bethel, he has to be having a lot of sleepless nights. IF I were he, I think I would cut my losses and run. But, I suspect he will try to release a charade of a documentary and then it will be even worse. I've said from day one that this project is doomed to failure. Bobby can even quote me on that one!

Preacher is right. Bobbi is cherry picking his information and then twisting it to support his delusion. I'm not sure he has ever addressed a specific argument except to quote items out of context. The question in my mind is why he comes here to take the abuse he gets. All he succeeds in doing is keeping the issue bumped more so than it would otherwise be.

We also know this board is frequented by some members of the media. This thread in particular provides a pretty ready reference to numerous articles and snippets for a reporter inclined to fully research the issue.

All thanks to Bobbi.

 

[BobbyG_tickle_swerv]

UKinCincy,
Ok, I think I'm beginning to understand what you're saying, thanks for being patient. So, there are two types (relevant to this situation) of impermissible benefits: (1) impermissible benefits (too much money for food, tickets, awards, etc.) and (2) impermissible extra benefits.

If an athlete receives impermissible benefits then (basically ?) three things will happen. If it's worth 0 dollars then nothing happens, if it's less than 100 dollars then the athlete is immediately ineligible until they pay the fine, while if it's more than 100 dollars then something else happens (the manual doesn't specifically mention this so I'm assuming it means the player is done). In all three cases the school will inform the NCAA, but no further investigation is required.

If an athlete receives an impermissible extra benefit then (basically ?) when the school finds out that athlete is held out by the school (or are they ineligible) while they inform the NCAA who then must do their own investigation. Then, after the NCAA has done their own investigation, they will asses fines and other penalties.

Is this correct? Has this changed since the UNC investigation (I'm assuming they're not using the newest version of the manual, maybe 2013 or 2014?)? Also, where is this all discussed in the manual? I've read bylaw 16, but there's no breakdown of the process, except for impermissible benefits (impermissible extra benefits are not given their own explanation).

Anyway, thanks again for the explanations. I look forward to seeing how they NCAA rules and how open for interpretation their bylaws are and if it's as cut-and-dry as you say. (I've read a few articles which state the monetary value is of importance here. So perhaps the wording of extra benefit versus benefit is a bit skewed in the NOA. Otherwise, they'd automatically be ineligible and then no discussion would be made and no one would question if banners are coming down or not. Thus, something must not be as clear.)

 

[Lumpy 2]

From 16.01.1.1
Unless otherwise noted, for violations of Bylaw 16 in which the value of the benefit is $100 or less, the eligibility of the student-athlete shall not be affected conditioned upon the student-athlete repaying the value of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. The student-athlete, however, shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the impermissible benefit until the student-athlete repays the benefit. For violations of Bylaw 16 in which there is no monetary value to the benefit, violations shall be considered institutional violations per Constitution 2.8.1; however, such violations shall not affect the student-athlete’s eligibility.

It does say the player is ineligible. Also, what year manual are you using?

N'gyoro, Crowder and Boxill were all members of the institution and it's already born proven that they had knowledge of the fraud. That would mean any athlete who participated in the scheme would be ineligible unless they repaid the benefit.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

They're patting themselves on the back for developing a committee that would not even be needed if they hadn't cheated for the last 20+ years. Talk about a total lack of self-awareness:

In Fall 2013, Provost James W. Dean, Jr. and Director of Athletics Bubba Cunningham brought together a 10-person team of campus leaders to do something that we believe no other University had done before:comprehensively document and assess all academic processes that affect student-athletes from the time that they are recruited until after they graduate.

http://apsa.unc.edu/about/

 

[KMKAT]

I for one am glad they put this monthly committee together. If they had just done things to be compliant, we wouldn't have found out about soccer and all the harm they've put upon this higher institute of learning.

Don't you wish this group of leaders would have uncovered the 20 years of ill refute that's been going on? They would have taken strong measures and worked hand in hand with the NCAA. Per Bubba:

“The information we self-reported to the NCAA regarding our men’s soccer program does not meet the high expectations of conduct that I have set for Carolina’s coaches and our entire athletics program. We expect excellence in everything we do, including NCAA compliance, and we will accept nothing less. We will continue to work closely with the NCAA to investigate this matter and avoid unnecessary delays. While this development is very disappointing, it is important to recognize that our 'athletics compliance procedures' detected the potential violations and our coaching staff came forward to report them.”

It has nothing to do with the previous allegations (according to the administration), but this holds up any response to the NCAA within the allotted time? Something is very wrong here.

I'm just glad basketball is doing things the right way instead of the Carolina Way.

 

[kybassfan]

They're patting themselves on the back for developing a committee that would not even be needed if they hadn't cheated for the last 20+ years. Talk about a total lack of self-awareness:

In Fall 2013, Provost James W. Dean, Jr. and Director of Athletics Bubba Cunningham brought together a 10-person team of campus leaders to do something that we believe no other University had done before:comprehensively document and assess all academic processes that affect student-athletes from the time that they are recruited until after they graduate.

http://apsa.unc.edu/about/

Ah, the illusion of institutional control. No matter how bad their fraud and deception was. No matter how out of control they had gotten, look at them now. They documented. They processed. They assessed. They even changed a few things (how rich is that?). They used all the right buzz words. They will continue to monitor, review, assess, document and recommend.

Have they documented any self punishment? Attonement? Have they corrected the disgusting abuse of the academic model? Have they engaged any independent audit or assessment? Could this new bureaucracy be used to cover up future cheating more effectively?

Nobody said a damn thing about punishment. All for show. The North Carolina Way. Nobody said integrity before athletics. Deflect, delay, deceive. Oh, an oversight, they are going to promote integrity. That's the phrasing I'd use of I was starting from scratch.

Guys, the fox is still in the hen house. The guy with the shotgun is sitting on the back porch, stoned to the bone and snoozing away.

 

[Bodvar Bjarki]

You're blind if you can't see how UNC is trying to wiggle out of this. They want the women's team to take the brunt of the sanctions so they can act stunned over how harsh the penalties handed down from the NCAA are, then peripheral damage to the men's program that dabbles around but does not take down banners nor vacate wins.

That is the entire endgame for them and it will be a disgrace if no banners come down. That, to me, is the ultimate test of "justice" in this case. If they keep all the banners and wins... then they win. Period.

The sad testament to them as a university is they care nothing about what they have to sacrifice up to and including the academic reputation of their school, in order to save basketball wins and trophies.

 

[warrior-cat]

I have hated UNCheat since I have started watching collage basketball , and I would like nothing more than to see them get the death penalty , well them and U 0f Smell lol. I just don't think the NCAA has the guts to do it. I think it will be as watered down as it can possibly be.

In a word, "THIS". I just don't see the NCAA coming down hard on either UNC or UL. I know some are saying that they are taking so long so they can gather all of the facts. The facts have been in for a while, given the short attention span of most people, I feel that the NCAA is hoping this will blow over. It practically has except on here and on the Wolfpacks site. You do not see much about it anywhere else. As much as I would like to see both of them get what they deserve, I don't have much hope it will happen. Corruption is almost a badge worn by those who know they can get away with it. UNC and UL fans are these type of people. They resemble politicians who seem to think they are better than everyone else and the rules do not apply to them.

 

[Xception]

I'm all for Bill Cosby giving Bobby a cocktail .

Pun intended

 

[warrior-cat]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/us/ncaa-academic-fraud/

The above article gives one of my reason why I think UNC and UL get off easy.

 

[Xception]

The sad testament to them as a university is they care nothing about what they have to sacrifice up to and including the academic reputation of their school, in order to save basketball wins and trophies.

That's what everyone has learned about UNC during this debacle is that they will do anything , go to any lengths and will sacrifice everything to save their stolen wins and trophies for men's basketball . They have used their judges , government lawyers , former governors and called upon every contact they have to get out of paying for their crimes . UNC is the epitome of a win at all costs university , the liars are the exact opposite of what they proclaimed to be for decades .

 

[Bodvar Bjarki]

^I wish I could like that post twice.

 

[kybassfan]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/us/ncaa-academic-fraud/

The above article gives one of my reason why I think UNC and UL get off easy.

Good Gawd, Warrior-Cat, you trying to give me nightmares?

The scariest two word phase I've ever read was in that article: situational ethics. That sounds like the case Bill Clinton made to Ken Starr in regards to the blue dress. (Sorry, since UL's record setting moral turpitude, I'm having situational ethics crisis.) That's a license to get away with anything. As Flip Wilson used to say, situational ethics is acknowledging "The Devil Made Me Do IT".

I still have hope that one of two things will happen. Either the NCAA will drop the hammer on the North Carolina cesspool to the fullest possible extent or they will let them skate and trigger a revolt of the member institutions. I hope it is the former. I could live with the latter.

Well, one good thing. I actually got to use the phrase "Moral Turpitude". PORKY'S LIVES!

I do have a question. Why has the ACC not booted their sorry ass?

 

[martinsm30]

Good Gawd, Warrior-Cat, you trying to give me nightmares?

The scariest two word phase I've ever read was in that article: situational ethics. That sounds like the case Bill Clinton made to Ken Starr in regards to the blue dress. (Sorry, since UL's record setting moral turpitude, I'm having situational ethics crisis.) That's a license to get away with anything. As Flip Wilson used to say, situational ethics is acknowledging "The Devil Made Me Do IT".

I still have hope that one of two things will happen. Either the NCAA will drop the hammer on the North Carolina cesspool to the fullest possible extent or they will let them skate and trigger a revolt of the member institutions. I hope it is the former. I could live with the latter.

Well, one good thing. I actually got to use the phrase "Moral Turpitude". PORKY'S LIVES!

I do have a question. Why has the ACC not booted their sorry ass?

The current commissioner of the ACC, John Swofford, was UNC Athletic Director from 1987-1999. Based on the SACS report, UNC***s fraud started during this time period.

 

[warrior-cat]

Good Gawd, Warrior-Cat, you trying to give me nightmares?

The scariest two word phase I've ever read was in that article: situational ethics. That sounds like the case Bill Clinton made to Ken Starr in regards to the blue dress. (Sorry, since UL's record setting moral turpitude, I'm having situational ethics crisis.) That's a license to get away with anything. As Flip Wilson used to say, situational ethics is acknowledging "The Devil Made Me Do IT".

I still have hope that one of two things will happen. Either the NCAA will drop the hammer on the North Carolina cesspool to the fullest possible extent or they will let them skate and trigger a revolt of the member institutions. I hope it is the former. I could live with the latter.

Well, one good thing. I actually got to use the phrase "Moral Turpitude". PORKY'S LIVES!

I do have a question. Why has the ACC not booted their sorry ass?

I am with you hoping but, I will not hold my breath. One other thing, if they (NCAA) do not come down on either UNC or UL and other schools do nothing about it, it will set a precedent for the future of cheating with schools who think they can get away with it. Smaller schools will suffer and larger more prominent will flourish even more than they do now. I think we are at a cross road for the future of the NCAA. They have turned a blind eye (for the love of money) for so long that they now face a very difficult situation and I think are scrambling to find a way out of it.

 

[kybassfan]

I am with you hoping but, I will not hold my breath. One other thing, if they (NCAA) do not come down on either UNC or UL and other schools do nothing about it, it will set a precedent for the future of cheating with schools who think they can get away with it. Smaller schools will suffer and larger more prominent will flourish even more than they do now. I think we are at a cross road for the future of the NCAA. They have turned a blind eye (for the love of money) for so long that they now face a very difficult situation and I think are scrambling to find a way out of it.

I think that is a pretty fair assessment of where things stand with the NCAA. In my mind, the NC (I refuse to refer to them as a university any longer) debacle is pretty cut and dry. NC is guilty. The docket of infractions is precedent setting. Only a precedent setting penalty is indicated. Frankly, I haven't run across anyone with an argument to the contrary save a few inconsequential moronic homers like perv boy. This leads us to exactly your statement. The NCAA stands at a crossroads. They can reclaim credibility and relevance or they can step on the slippery slope leading to dissolution.

I really think those are the two choices that confront them. I take some comfort in that I believe financial impacts lie down both paths. The path towards ethical enforcement is the lesser of two long term financial evils for them. The fly in the ointment with the NCAA is their overwhelming incompetence. They may simply lack the foresight to evaluate their options or simply acknowledge the predicament they are in. Time will tell.

The current commissioner of the ACC, John Swofford, was UNC Athletic Director from 1987-1999. Based on the SACS report, UNC***s fraud started during this time period.

Jeez, intra-conference nepotism much? Can we spell conflict of interest? Apparently not.

Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know about that entanglement. I've thought that the ACC was amazingly tolerant of this academic abomination. Now, perhaps I understand a bit better.

Sickening.

 

[martinsm30]

I think that is a pretty fair assessment of where things stand with the NCAA. In my mind, the NC (I refuse to refer to them as a university any longer) debacle is pretty cut and dry. NC is guilty. The docket of infractions is precedent setting. Only a precedent setting penalty is indicated. Frankly, I haven't run across anyone with an argument to the contrary save a few inconsequential moronic homers like perv boy. This leads us to exactly your statement. The NCAA stands at a crossroads. They can reclaim credibility and relevance or they can step on the slippery slope leading to dissolution.

I really think those are the two choices that confront them. I take some comfort in that I believe financial impacts lie down both paths. The path towards ethical enforcement is the lesser of two long term financial evils for them. The fly in the ointment with the NCAA is their overwhelming incompetence. They may simply lack the foresight to evaluate their options or simply acknowledge the predicament they are in. Time will tell.



Jeez, intra-conference nepotism much? Can we spell conflict of interest? Apparently not.

Thanks for pointing that out. I did not know about that entanglement. I've thought that the ACC was amazingly tolerant of this academic abomination. Now, perhaps I understand a bit better.

Sickening.

It is eye opening reading pack pride how UNC*** dominates the Board of Governors that control North Carolina's University system. Those are the people that supposedly hold North Carolina schools to any kind of standards.

 

[kybassfan]

It is eye opening reading pack pride how UNC*** dominates the Board of Governors that control North Carolina's University system. Those are the people that supposedly hold North Carolina schools to any kind of standards.

No wonder the Wolfpack hates their guts.

 

[preacherfan]

No wonder the Wolfpack hates their guts.

Well, there is another key reason that the Wolfpack hates their guts. Dean Smyth was the one who turned in NCST and ended up getting them put on probation. Dean was afraid that NCST would become the best bball school in the state and he could not allow that.

I honestly don't know the facts of the case but I have seen this mentioned over at PP. If anyone knows the story, I would be interested in the facts.

 

[kybassfan]

Well, there is another key reason that the Wolfpack hates their guts. Dean Smyth was the one who turned in NCST and ended up getting them put on probation. Dean was afraid that NCST would become the best bball school in the state and he could not allow that.

I honestly don't know the facts of the case but I have seen this mentioned over at PP. If anyone knows the story, I would be interested in the facts.

Karma

 

[Xception]

It's been established that North Carolina is a corrupt state , the environment there incubates shadiness .

 

[JPScott]

Going rate for term papers is 10 - 30 bucks a page. 5 page paper puts in in the monetary scope. This puts the fraudulent classes in scope monetarily.

Institutional violations can affect the eligibility of the team resulting in same loss of game/result/proceeds for the corrupt school

When talking about the 'worth' of a term paper, I think it misses the forest for the trees. IMO the real question is how much is it worth to the University to have key players on the basketball team remain eligible to play through the use of these classes? When you consider it that way, we're not talking hundreds of dollars, we're talking potentially millions of dollars!

Usually when one talks about extra permissible benefits it's a third party providing them to a student. This was really the University giving themselves a benefit, not only enriching themselves with a successful basketball team but amazingly saving money on having to educate their players!

This fraud is so longstanding, so wide-ranging and so brazen that really only a lack of institutional control is suitable because nothing else the NCAA has even begins to address a scandal of this magnitude.

Whether they actually bring down the hammer remains to be seen, but I do believe that if they don't, the NCAA itself won't be around much longer.