The testing agency invalidating Rose’s test score is what made him ineligible, it wasn’t a decision the NCAA made. Without a valid test score he was not eligible for NCAA participation. Even if the NCAA investigated and thought he should be eligible unless they got the testing agency to change the status of that score he would have still been ineligible.
Nike/Duke corruption
- Thread starter Nawlij
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The testing agency invalidating Rose’s test score is what made him ineligible, it wasn’t a decision the NCAA made. Without a valid test score he was not eligible for NCAA participation. Even if the NCAA investigated and thought he should be eligible unless they got the testing agency to change the status of that score he would have still been ineligible.
I remember when every recruiting person thought Duhon was coming to UK, then he picked Duke. Later, it was reported that his mother moved to Durham with him and was hired as a manager at an advertising agency, even though she had cleaned office buildings, prior.
Tell us your thoughts on Marvin Bagley's miraculous academic progression.
I agree, but even when they do have evidence, they turn their heads. For instance, the Wainstein investigation report at UNC, and Corey Maggatte's admission, at Duke. They clearly had positive evidence and chose not to act. Corruption, plain and simple.
He finished high school with some summer classes after his junior year. Not that hard. I had two required classes my senior year of high school. With online classes now it’s a breeze.
In the case of UNC, the Weinstein report was not evidence per se, outside of some of the attachments. Rather, the Weinstein Report consisted of findings based on Weinstein’s review of the evidence. It didn’t fully present the evidence itself (e.g., interview transcripts, full text of ALL emails reviewed).
I realize it sounds like I’m arguing semantics here, but it’s actually an important distinction. And that created challenges under the NCAA enforcement process in place at the time.
As an aside, UNC’s strategy all along was to conduct a “robust” investigation in a fashion that allowed them to tout the fact they got to the bottom of this while at the same time preventing the NCAA from using it. Rick Evrard, the attorney advising UNC on NCAA matters, was the one who drafted the scope of Weinstein and stipulated things like how interviews would be conducted. The investigation process was designed in a way to undermine the NCAA’s ability to rely on its findings.
That said, I personally believe the report was robust enough to warrant its use in place of the direct evidence. And the fact that UNC fired several people and instituted numerous “reforms” on the basis of the report’s findings, indicates that UNC also implicitly believed the report was robust (UNC’s disavowal of the report during the Committee hearing was laughably disingenuous).
Point being, I think the COI dropped the ball on UNC. But the decision of whether or not to rely on Weinstein during the hearing was not as clear cut as most people believe. Had the NCAA moved forward with Weinstein, it increased the likelihood that UNC could defeat a motion to dismiss. And while the NCAA most likely prevails in any lawsuit, they simply didn’t have the stomach for a protracted legal battle. I strongly disagree with their decision, but also understand the factors they were weighing.
Always appreciate your insight on these matters (specifically the UNC case).
I understand your point about the NCAA not wanting a protracted legal battle. That said, the NCAA has punished a ton of schools with less "evidence" than what was known about the UNC case. That is what pisses me off about their decision not to punish UNC. Further, it doesn't take much of an investigation to discern when 9 of 13 scholarship MBB players were enrolled in a fake major and being given grades to STAY eligible to play basketball. They could not even field a team of 5 players that weren't being given grades. Throw in the fact that this "program" was in place for at least 20+ years (and that is the date UNC arbitrarily chose to cut its' investigation off----there was actually evidence it was more like 30+ years). UGA and the Harrick's were destroyed for a single class----not an entire major! JMO
Translation: We are very corrupt but it will be hard to pin us down.
The difference between UNC and almost all other schools who get punished is simply this. Those schools typically have admitted to infractions and / or agreed with the NCAA on the underlying facts. That’s really it.
You have to keep in mind that the enforcement process was intentionally designed by the universities to limit the NCAA’s power. So it’s a collaborative process where the NCAA and school essentially have to agree on the facts to be considered. The downside to that approach is that you end up with a system where the people who cooperate quite often get harsher sentences than the people who fight the NCAA.
Totally get your frustration though. UNC is the biggest fraud in the history of college athletics and got off scot free. Shouldn’t have happened.
Nah, but what about his situation makes you think it’s different than most other players who reclassify? There’s a lot who do it every year. If he has the minimum NCAA requirements by the time school starts that’s all he needs.
More so that I don’t think the NCAA wants to pin anyone down... especially any major Nike school.
It's one thing if you're on track to make that move, but when you're not and you somehow knock out 2 algebra classes and a plethora of other courses in a single summer - online, and then you're cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse in record time, it raises some eyebrows. Especially when one of the schools he transferred from was under investigation for being a complete sham. Then of course, how many schools did he transfer to/from? 3 or 4? Must have been part of the package deal Papa Bagley had with Nike Phamily.
Duke/K are a complete sham. They're no better than UNC, or anybody else for that matter. It's hilarious that a Duke fan posts on RR, and of all subjects, you chime in on Derrick Rose's invalidated test score. GTFOH. What next ... a UNC fan comes over to spew a line about how academically superior Chapel Hill is. **** off with that
Most plan to do it in advance and begin working toward it at that point. He did it in two weeks late in the summer. Not that hard to comprehend.
Yea but that’s not what happened. He started classes at the beginning of the summer.
https://www.greensboro.com/sports/c...cle_39cc4dea-0120-55e3-93a4-db8e9a45ab69.html
Interesting article ...
Around that time, the NCAA also had taken a look into the online school, Starshine Academy, with which Hillcrest was associated academically.
At that time, Hillcrest program director Matt Allen told Obert that Bagley transferred his academic work to Arizona Connections Academy, an accredited online school, to avoid potential academic issues with the NCAA.
Why didn't the NCAA investigate this with such vigor as they did the Derrick Rose situation I wonder. I'm guessing the same reason Bagley was cleared with such haste.
![[eyeroll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/rolleye/rolleye0011.r191677.gif "Eye roll [eyeroll]")
Why didn't the NCAA investigate this with such vigor as they did the Derrick Rose situation I wonder. I'm guessing the same reason Bagley was cleared with such haste.
I think Dukes compliance department it just really good and filling out all the necessary paperwork.
Maybe they could hire Seth Davis and Jay Bilas just to have some objective opinions
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
Even if those measures were Duke’s attempt to circumvent proper NCAA eligibility guidelines? As a UK fan, I’m glad I don’t have to split hairs to justify why a particular player chose Kentucky.
In all honesty K doesn’t have to concern himself with that. The NCAA knowingly and voluntarily turns their head. It’s a running joke, but K could have the youngest Ball brother on campus, free and clear next week if he wanted. Also, Enes Kanter would have been an All- American to boot. Just from a perspective POV.
It's amazing how much K has underperformed considering all the help he's gotten from Nike, the NCAA, and the selection committees throughout the years. He's due for another easy path, some bogus whistles, and some elite recruits to grab another title before he hangs it up.
Could any other school(not counting UNC) accomplished what Duke did in the cases of Bagley and Duvall with respect to eligibility?
Nah, we’re all kinda use to it by now. Actually it’s nice knowing it’s quickly coming to an end. From a rivalry perspective only, I hope Duke doesn’t end up the way of IU, when it does.
Schools do it every year... what specifically was wrong with Bagley and Duval with regards to eligibility? Were they missing key courses? SAT or ACT scores? GPA?
How did they "meet" the necessary eligibility requirements,were they merely given their grades to comply? The NCAA cleared them before the ink was dry on the necessary documents,had they(Bagley and Duval) been going to a different school would the NCAA acted so quickly or even ruled the same way? Yes I know we can only speculate on hypothetical situations(but we know the answer in the case of Duke) but I suspect we will come up with different conclusions on others schools.
I’m just not sure what you are basing your thought process on. What specifically about Duval leads you to believe he needed extra assistance to become eligible?
There was speculation by several in the world of sports media that he would have problems being eligible.How many high schools did he attend in 3 years and what academic reputation did these schools have?
Was it 4 high schools in 3 years, or 3 high schools in 4 years? Regardless, neither is the most conducive environment in which to stay on track for a timely graduation...much less a re-class.
As I said before it’s really easy to finish high school, especially with online classes now. The NCAA requirements are also very low. People on here are acting like these players need to be Rhodes Scholars to become NCAA eligible. Also changing schools really isn’t a huge issue especially if it’s done in the summer.
Obviously easy, looks like Bagley took 2 Algebra 1 and above classes and a Latin class and an English class in the summer. Rhodes scholars would have issue with that schedule
Hell no...not when they're on-line. It probably was a Rhodes scholar doing the work for him, as far as we (or the ncaa) know.
