Great to see Lewis recapture the winning feeling. I wonder how he feels about leaving for a worse team next year?
Formula 1
- Thread starter HymanKaplan
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With 11 to go, and the way Max was coming on, I thought he might do it. But it turns out, Lewis was probably nursing his tires, and closed it out solidly.
Norris just seems to always make a critical mistake late that dooms him. Today, for instance, overshooting the box kept him from getting the lead, coming out of the pits. Not saying it definitely cost him the victory, but it's not out of the question. He's still awfully young though, and hopefully he can get that cleaned up.
Norris just seems to always make a critical mistake late that dooms him. Today, for instance, overshooting the box kept him from getting the lead, coming out of the pits. Not saying it definitely cost him the victory, but it's not out of the question. He's still awfully young though, and hopefully he can get that cleaned up.
Leaving Norris out an extra lap is what cost him. Not sure if that was his call or his team’s.
Don’t think you can blame it on just one thing. The extra lap before pitting for inters cost him ~5 seconds. Overshooting the pit box cost him ~2 seconds.
Switching to softs instead of mediums for the last stint was also a problem. If you look at the lap times for the final stints, both Verstappen on the hard tires and Piastri on the medium tires were lapping quicker than Hamilton and Norris.
And for Norris in particular, his tires seemed to go off a cliff on lap 48. On lap 47, he was about 0.3 seconds slower than Hamilton and 0.5 seconds slower than Verstappen. On lap 48, the gap jumped to about 1 second per lap slower than Hamilton and 1.5 seconds slower than Verstappen. If he had gone onto medium tires instead, he may have held position against Verstappen and maybe even have caught Hamilton.
Hard to tell, but McLaren, for all the strides they've made, just like Norris, always seem to botch something during the race. Just enough to keep them from winning.
Silverstone is an extremely demanding track, and everything else aside, Hamilton is probably the best ever at handling it.
Yep. The thing with RB is that they hardly ever make a bad call. The other teams all have at least one major blunder during each race - I reckon some of that is because they feel they have to do something different to compete with Max, but still…..you’d think people at that level would RARELY make a mistake. Instead it’s the opposite
I could see doing that. It's a pretty good upfront investment though isn't it. I mean, nothing like flight simulators, but pretty pricey nonetheless, right?
I think a lot the very top guys have multiple tens of thousands sunk into their sims. There are also guys who race with a steering wheel attached to their desk and a little pedal stand underneath. You can get into it for under one k with the basics.
Talk about a 180 by McLaren. A year ago they looked dead and now they are controlling a race so easily they swapped winners.
Not really. Piastri would have controlled that race from beginning to end had they brought him in first. They brought Lando first because it was better for the team. Hence, Piastri gets the place back. It was always going to be the case once they made the decision to box Lando before Oscar.
If you think this decision was wacky or stupid or non competitive, you should watch a few past seasons of F1. You’ll understand exactly why they did it. It’s a team sport. Oscar deserved to win, so he won.
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Don't know about Formula 2, but there's a Formula 409.
I'm not really sure whether it's expensive or not. It would be expensive for me because I don't make that much money. The costs:
VR (which is very immersive) or
Multiple monitors (3 is best) or
Single display
Decent PC
Steering wheel, preferably force feedback or even better Direct Drive
Pedals that are calibrated to sim racing
Cockpit, very difficult to find a decent one, they take up space and be pretty expensive for a good one
iRacing membership cost
Costs to buy cars and tracks
I know that some of the best professional drivers in the world are into iRacing, so you're likely to be up against them lol.
I DGAF what the team discussed and this or that, slowing down and letting a driver pass you to win, is BULLSHIT. He was in 1st, had to slow down and LET the teammate pass him. NACAR, there is no way in hell Kyle Larson is slowing up and letting another Hendrick car get a W (or any NASCAR driver / team), it just is not happening. WHY exactly did Piastri "deserve" to win ? If so, wouldn't he have been out front ? Pit strategy or no pit strategy, the guy running 1st should get the win. I HOPE those 7 extra points cost them the championship. Lando I have a feeling is going to regret that decision, and he wasn't too thrilled with doing it anyway. Look at it how you want to, they had their racer, throw the race, period. Pit strategy is what it is, and if it helped Lando, so be it. Doesn't mean he should LET Piastri win.
Only way I could see a NASCAR driver letting a teammate win is for a playoff spot, still not certain anyone would. Ego and Me attitude is what makes race car drivers so good. It is not a team sport, only a team of individual racers. They share data, ideas, but NOT letting teammates win.
Only way I could see a NASCAR driver letting a teammate win is for a playoff spot, still not certain anyone would. Ego and Me attitude is what makes race car drivers so good. It is not a team sport, only a team of individual racers. They share data, ideas, but NOT letting teammates win.
Then watch NASCAR (I watch both). They are 2 completely different sports. Not remotely similar.
I watch both also. And don't try and tell me WTF to do. Racing is about finishing first, not letting a teammate pass you because of some BS pit strategy. Only thing different is the type of car, BOTH are about finishing 1st. HTF any race fan can justify a guy throwing a race is beyond me.
Well I guess you haven’t been watching F1 for long, because yesterday was hardly a new thing. If you don’t like the sport as it exists, stop watching. Maybe they will change decades of team strategy to accommodate you.
OR maybe you watch it and have YOUR opinion, and I will watch it and have MY opinion. It is not a one way deal. If it is so well known, why was Lando upset about it ? And save the BS PR interview. EVERYBODY was yelling at him to slow down (and thought he wasn't going to), his crew chief said "Last time Lando, let him pass." Verstappen would NOT do that, like he said, he could stay home, his strategy is to finish 1st.
Fair. I didn’t love it either, but that die was cast when Lando received the undercut.
And I don’t know about whether Max would do that or not, but their resumes are markedly different. Maybe if Lando win 3 championships for McLaren, they’ll stop asking him to do the right thing. Guys like Max and Lewis and Alonso have earned the respect they have.
I get it NASCAR and Formula racing are totally different "cultures" to put it nicely, no matter how hard NASCAR is trying to branch out. But the goal is to 1. win races, 2. win championships. Yesterday letting a teammate pass you for the win does not help accomplish either of the 2. Now if being a good team player, have great team bonding and being friends is the objective, it was a good "team" decision. IF Lando goes on to lose the championship by less than 7 points, I would love to readdress the situation and more so hear what he has to say about that decision. I can only assume he would be pissed off, and should be.
I’m here for the drama if Max wins the title over Lando by less than 7. Sign me up 😁
Oh there would be shenanigans for sure (fingers crossed it happens). Maybe even Lando leaving for another "team". I bet he would have it in his new contract that he will not let a teammate win a race he was clearly going to win. I would love to be able to hear #3's opinion yesterday after the race. Earnhardt is turning over in his grave.
If someone ever told Earnhardt to do that, he’d probably let the other guy catch up then wreck him. Hahahaah.
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If Earnhardt were in Piastri’s shoes, he might have something to say about whether they should swap positions.
Norris wasn’t in first place because he had earned it on the track. Norris was in first because Piastri was willing to sacrifice position to help protect Norris from Hamilton.
Norris was gifted first place, and I don’t see the big issue in him being asked to hand the position back to Piastri. If the team had prioritized Piastri as the first place driver, which they probably should have, then Norris is still likely finishing in second and possibly even in third behind Hamilton.
When the team asks Piastri to let Norris through to protect Norris from Hamilton, there’s nothing wrong with the team then asking Norris to hand the position back to Piastri for the win.
You’re arguing with the wrong guy dude. I’m firmly on your side if you read back a few posts.
Sorry, I wasn’t arguing with you.
I was just chiming in on the discussion and hit reply to your post because I was too lazy to scroll back up to the original comment. I shouldn’t have done that.
I’ve been known to spout off too. All good. Nobody likes to see that but it’s just the nature of F1. It has happened before and it will happen again.
Norris is your #1 driver.
If you're a serious organization, you tell Oscar he'll get his, but this is a title fight. The way McLaren has looked recently, those 7 points could loom very very large.
If you're a serious organization, you tell Oscar he'll get his, but this is a title fight. The way McLaren has looked recently, those 7 points could loom very very large.
McLaren treated Norris like a #1 by asking Piastri to compromise his race for Norris. That’s an extra 3 points that McLaren guaranteed for Norris by protecting him from Hamilton.
But asking Piastri to go a step further and hand a race victory to Norris that Norris didn’t earn is a step too far. If Norris wanted the win, he should’ve done a better job during the race start.
I like Norris a lot and would love to see him win the title this year, but McLaren should never have put Piastri in that position in the first place, and there’s nothing wrong asking Norris to hand back the position that was given to him when Piastri did him a favor.
If Norris wants to win a title, he needs to earn it on the track.
How did he protect Norris ? If he was the best car, why not just pass Norris ? What exactly did he do to "protect" him from Hamilton ? Did he slow down in front of him ? Block him ? To me, you fight for position, if you are faster than the guy ahead of you, pass him. How could Norris be so far ahead of his teammate, he had to slow down and "let" him pass ? If he was the better car, why not just run him down and make a legit pass? There is just no way you can convince me that a car slowing down and letting a guy pass him is good for racing. It is called RACING, not help a slower teammate win. I guess Kyle Larson should have slowed down and let another Hendrick car pass him, maybe one that has not qualified for the playoffs and needs a win. Not FKN happening in NASCAR. Teammates do and will block for another driver, even pit with them to have a drafting partner, but NOT ONE team is going to yell on the radio "last time, let the slower guy 4 seconds behind you pass you for the win because he protected you" It is just dumb. You race to win, if you ain't first, your last.
I sincerely hope it cost the team (not so much Lando), the championship. I hope he losses by 6 points. It for me, be Poetic Justice and maybe make those stuffy ass team owners understand what racing is about.
McLaren gave Norris the undercut on Piastri to help Norris cover Hamilton, did they not?
That decision is what put Norris ahead of Piastri in the first place. McLaren made that decision knowing in advance that it would result in Norris moving into first place, but they were comfortable doing so because they knew they could ask Norris to hand the position back later in the race.
Norris never earned the first place position and he didn’t pass Piastri on track. Norris was gifted first place by McLaren as a result of their pit strategy decision to help protect Norris against Hamilton.
This is not the same thing as Ferrari asking Barrichello to let Schumacher pass in Austria. This was the right call to swap positions after McLaren had previously swapped positions earlier during the pit stops. McLaren was simply undoing what they had done earlier.
I just don't see it that way. Piastri never passed Norris on the track, well he did, but because Norris slowed up. Helping a teammate earlier in the race doesn't mean giving him the win at the end. Pit strategies are part of racing. Norris was 4 seconds ahead, he had to slow down, so obviously he had the fastest car. If not, others would have ran him down. In NASCAR teams pit and will only take 2 tires, fuel only, etc. and teammates will pit together, they will even try to hold up a faster car from catching a teammate, but they will NEVER slow down and let a slower car win because he helped him earlier in the race.
And maybe explain the "undercut" for Norris to help Norris "cover" Hamilton ? Did he block him ? If he had to give the lead back to a teammate, why even do it to begin with ? Sounds to me like McLaren wasn't certain the had the fastest car to win the race. But if Piastri was faster than Norris, why couldn't he run him down or at least gain ground ? Norris was running away with the race, so obviously he had the fastest car. Maybe they need to let the racers race on the track and let the better of the two cars win, not return favors. If Piastri had to "cover" Hamilton, obviously he wasn't as fast as him, so definitely should not have been rewarding a win when his car was not even a top 2 car. It was gifted to him, plain and simple.
I don’t mean this condescendingly and hopefully it doesn’t come across that way, but I think one issue here is that you don’t understand what an undercut is and how it works. When you pit before the driver ahead of you, you then emerge on fresh tires and can put in a faster lap time. On tracks where the undercut is powerful, that lap delta is large enough so that you’ll take the lead over the car in front of you when they pit because your “out lap” is so much faster than the other car’s “in lap.”
When McLaren told Norris to box, he was 2.0 seconds behind Piastri. When Piastri pitted after Norris’ pit stop, Piastri was then 2.5 seconds behind Norris. That shouldn’t have happened. As the race leader, Piastri should’ve been given priority and if Piastri had pitted first, Norris never would’ve been leading the race at the end.
McLaren did this specifically to protect Norris from Hamilton. If you were watching the race, then you’ll recall two things happening when Norris was told to pit for the second time. One was David Croft saying “I wonder, is this all about protecting Lando’s position here and then maybe swapping places later in the race?”
The second thing was Oscar’s race engineer immediately getting on the radio to tell Oscar that they were going to prioritize Lando to protect against Hamilton, and not to worry because they would swap positions later. He wanted to reassure Piastri that McLaren was not trying to give the win to Norris instead of Piastri.
Go back and watch laps 45-47 again. Norris was in front because the team gave it to him, not because of his performance.
And Piastri wasn’t catching Norris in the last stint because he was following team guidance to manage tires while Norris was ignoring that and pushing to try to get the win. It was Lando getting greedy and being selfish, and I’m glad he came to his senses and realized the right thing to do in this instance is hand the position back to Piastri.
The team asked Norris to let Piastri pass because the team had previously effectively asked Piastri to let Norris pass during the second pit stops. They were just undoing what they did earlier. If Norris wanted to push for the win, he should’ve either gotten a better race start instead of letting Piastri overtake him, or he should have let Piastri pass him sooner in the final stint and then raced Piastri to the checkered flag.
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