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NatIonal Labor Relations Board to pursue unlawful labor practices against USC, Pac-12, NCAA

Feb 19, 2003
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The next logical step in College Athletics …. From ESPN:

An effort to legally recognize college football and basketball players at the University of Southern California as employees of their school, their conference and the NCAA took a significant step forward Thursday.

The National Labor Relations Board has directed its Los Angeles regional office to pursue charges of unfair labor practices against USC, the Pac-12 and the NCAA. The NLRB will argue that athletes at USC are employees of those three groups and that their rights have been unlawfully restricted. If they are successful, athletes who play men's basketball, women's basketball or football at any private college in the NCAA will be granted the rights of employees, including the freedom to create unions.

The claim was filed on behalf of USC athletes by the National College Players Association, an advocacy group that has led several campaigns to increase various benefits that college athletes receive.


"We are working to make sure college athletes are treated fairly in both the education and business aspects of college sports," said NCPA executive director Ramogi Huma. "Gaining employee status and the right to organize is an important part in ending NCAA sports' business practices that illegally exploit college athletes' labor."

Huma was also involved in helping athletes at Northwestern University attempt to form a union in a similar effort nearly a decade ago. In that case, a five-person panel from the NLRB declined to rule on a petition for Northwestern players to unionize, essentially punting on the question of whether or not college athletes should be considered employees.


 
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Ridiculous. How is an athlete any different than any other student participating in an extracurricular activity at the school? Marching band, theater? Does it only apply to the sports they listed? What about all the other sports?
It's about revenue. If the theater department had a multi-million dollar TV contract, then they would be a part of this too.
 
Interesting. If students are athletes and can unionize for compensation, what will that do to the NIL model over the long run?
 
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Ridiculous. How is an athlete any different than any other student participating in an extracurricular activity at the school? Marching band, theater? Does it only apply to the sports they listed? What about all the other sports?
People who generate income for other people are employees. We’re not talking about selling $5.00 tickets at middle-school football games where the schools still lose $.

We’re talking about players generating close to a BILLION dollars a year for their conferences. SEC paid out over $700 MILLION dollars last year to schools in our conference. This is after the conference pocketed alot of money on the conference level. What do you call people who generate income for businesses?

I once thought it was heresy to consider paying college players. But, college sports morphed into money making machines that simply didn’t exist several years ago. NCAA and schools have milked this gravy train for awhile. I think it was allowed because many people (like me and probably you) thought paying players wasn’t something that was supposed to happen in college sports.

College athletics became a big time money making machine that pedals academics on the side. It’s time for them to pay the piper. Frankly, I think it’s the best thing for football/basketball because treating them as employees will greatly reduce impact of NIL.
 
I'm sure initial glance sounds great, but I can assure the players this is not what they want. Not at all.

If it goes through, they can and be taxed on the fair market value of their scholarship, because that's compensation. Any and all food stuffs and potentially other perks such as lodging, gear, etc.

It will quickly be a net negative.

For the schools it will be even worse.

Quickest way to ruin anything is let the government get involved.
 
People who generate income for other people are employees. We’re not talking about selling $5.00 tickets at middle-school football games where the schools still lose $.

We’re talking about players generating close to a BILLION dollars a year for their conferences. SEC paid out over $700 MILLION dollars last year to schools in our conference. This is after the conference pocketed alot of money on the conference level. What do you call people who generate income for businesses?

I once thought it was heresy to consider paying college players. But, college sports morphed into money making machines that simply didn’t exist several years ago. NCAA and schools have milked this gravy train for awhile. I think it was allowed because many people (like me and probably you) thought paying players wasn’t something that was supposed to happen in college sports.

College athletics became a big time money making machine that pedals academics on the side. It’s time for them to pay the piper. Frankly, I think it’s the best thing for football/basketball because treating them as employees will greatly reduce impact of NIL.
I get the revenue aspect and do think players should be paid somewhat, but look at what these players at Power 5 programs get. They get their scholarships, so a free education. They get their meals for free and catered to their dietary needs as athletes. That is not a food line or source accessible to the rest of the University. They get access to a state of the art football facility, with high end amenities not available to the average student. They get free shoes and all sorts of other apparel. Free tutoring and academic resources catered to their needs. Point being they get a lot that the average student doesn't have access too. those big revenue generating TV contracts, help pay for a whole lot of those amenities and facilities. So yeah, maybe some of that money should filter into their pockets to some extent as well, but lets not act like these kids are living like paupers.
 
I
I get the revenue aspect and do think players should be paid somewhat, but look at what these players at Power 5 programs get.
Do you think that’s an equitable compensation for the revenue they generate?

I wish the game was what it once was! I don’t fault football for becoming a cash cow. But, they can’t turn it into an ATM machine that spits out millions and not give equitable compensation to the very people who are generating the income.
Major college sports are now a professional business hiding under amateur sports laws.

I miss the purity of the games. I think NIL and paying players turns the 2 big sports into just another pro league. But, I also like watching every game on television. Players are creating the product that administrators have figured out how to monetize. The current scholarship, food, books, shoes, clothes, etc ... are table scraps compared to revenue they generate.
 
Why would they care? They’re not getting paid.
Because a stoppage interrupts games. People fall out of regular viewing = find other stuff to do, which hurts the overall interest/profitability. See the 1994 MLB strike and what it did to that sport (or the NHL for that matter that hasn't recovered from the myriad of work stoppages that plagued it after 1994).
 
Dude, it’s been wonderful. I haven’t seen any NHL game in front of my eyeballs for as long as I can remember. I remember when they littered cable television, it was terrible.
 
I
Do you think that’s an equitable compensation for the revenue they generate?

I wish the game was what it once was! I don’t fault football for becoming a cash cow. But, they can’t turn it into an ATM machine that spits out millions and not give equitable compensation to the very people who are generating the income.
Major college sports are now a professional business hiding under amateur sports laws.

I miss the purity of the games. I think NIL and paying players turns the 2 big sports into just another pro league. But, I also like watching every game on television. Players are creating the product that administrators have figured out how to monetize. The current scholarship, food, books, shoes, clothes, etc ... are table scraps compared to revenue they generate.
when you consider all each player gets at a school like UK it probably exceeds 200k per player
 
The next logical step in College Athletics …. From ESPN:

An effort to legally recognize college football and basketball players at the University of Southern California as employees of their school, their conference and the NCAA took a significant step forward Thursday.

The National Labor Relations Board has directed its Los Angeles regional office to pursue charges of unfair labor practices against USC, the Pac-12 and the NCAA. The NLRB will argue that athletes at USC are employees of those three groups and that their rights have been unlawfully restricted. If they are successful, athletes who play men's basketball, women's basketball or football at any private college in the NCAA will be granted the rights of employees, including the freedom to create unions.

The claim was filed on behalf of USC athletes by the National College Players Association, an advocacy group that has led several campaigns to increase various benefits that college athletes receive.


"We are working to make sure college athletes are treated fairly in both the education and business aspects of college sports," said NCPA executive director Ramogi Huma. "Gaining employee status and the right to organize is an important part in ending NCAA sports' business practices that illegally exploit college athletes' labor."

Huma was also involved in helping athletes at Northwestern University attempt to form a union in a similar effort nearly a decade ago. In that case, a five-person panel from the NLRB declined to rule on a petition for Northwestern players to unionize, essentially punting on the question of whether or not college athletes should be considered employees.


Shut down college sports, all of them. This is the correct response to the radical liberals at the NLRB.
 
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People who generate income for other people are employees. We’re not talking about selling $5.00 tickets at middle-school football games where the schools still lose $.

We’re talking about players generating close to a BILLION dollars a year for their conferences. SEC paid out over $700 MILLION dollars last year to schools in our conference. This is after the conference pocketed alot of money on the conference level. What do you call people who generate income for businesses?

I once thought it was heresy to consider paying college players. But, college sports morphed into money making machines that simply didn’t exist several years ago. NCAA and schools have milked this gravy train for awhile. I think it was allowed because many people (like me and probably you) thought paying players wasn’t something that was supposed to happen in college sports.

College athletics became a big time money making machine that pedals academics on the side. It’s time for them to pay the piper. Frankly, I think it’s the best thing for football/basketball because treating them as employees will greatly reduce impact of NIL.
No, that is not the definition of employee.
 
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People who generate income for other people are employees. We’re not talking about selling $5.00 tickets at middle-school football games where the schools still lose $.

We’re talking about players generating close to a BILLION dollars a year for their conferences. SEC paid out over $700 MILLION dollars last year to schools in our conference. This is after the conference pocketed alot of money on the conference level. What do you call people who generate income for businesses?

I once thought it was heresy to consider paying college players. But, college sports morphed into money making machines that simply didn’t exist several years ago. NCAA and schools have milked this gravy train for awhile. I think it was allowed because many people (like me and probably you) thought paying players wasn’t something that was supposed to happen in college sports.

College athletics became a big time money making machine that pedals academics on the side. It’s time for them to pay the piper. Frankly, I think it’s the best thing for football/basketball because treating them as employees will greatly reduce impact of NIL.
They aren’t employees. This will destroy college athletics.
 
How does that change the definition of employee?
I suspect if there is no revenue generated, one could argue that is volunteerism or maybe, in that case, lawyers could argue the value of the scholarship exceeds revenue generated, so the scholarship alone is appropriate compensation. There's no way to argue that with the revenue sports.
 
I'm sure initial glance sounds great, but I can assure the players this is not what they want. Not at all.

If it goes through, they can and be taxed on the fair market value of their scholarship, because that's compensation. Any and all food stuffs and potentially other perks such as lodging, gear, etc.

It will quickly be a net negative.

For the schools it will be even worse.

Quickest way to ruin anything is let the government get involved.
Bingo!!

This IS NOT about the players getting a fair share of the revenue.

This is all about Big Government wanting to grab the biggest share of all that free money floating around right now.

Players about to learn.....so are the schools and big donors.
 
I suspect if there is no revenue generated, one could argue that is volunteerism or maybe, in that case, lawyers could argue the value of the scholarship exceeds revenue generated, so the scholarship alone is appropriate compensation. There's no way to argue that with the revenue sports.
There is a legal definition of an employee. What you're saying isn't it.
 
Two interesting opinions delivered without support. I would be interested in hearing your thesis.
Athletes do not attend schools with the expectation of compensation. That alone kills the employee definition. The ultra radical NLRB has no standing with public universities. Their opinion is meritless at 95% of schools and can be ignored.
 
There is a legal definition of an employee. What you're saying isn't it.
I agree with your “technical” definition of employee not being connected to generating revenue.

I think you are mistaking what I think “will happen” as being good for college sports.

First, P5 football and basketball (primarily football and just March Madness) are generating millions of $ to schools. This income is not possible without players, and players will legally be granted a portion of the income. One side of me wants college sports to be what it once was. (Maybe I’m stuck in Bedford Falls.)

Second, I’ve stated elsewhere that NIL will kill college sports in less than 5 years. Our Bedford Falls will become Pottersville.

I’m just speculating and reading tea leaves with what I think happens in next couple of years. Conferences are not going to reject television $, and we’re not going back to listening to our games on just radio with 1-2 games a year on television. AD’s and conference commissioners know NIL has to be changed. So, I predict SEC and Big10 will form an alliance and pull away from NCAA. They will eliminate NIL and give players contracts. ESPN and a few others will pay through the nose for television rights. They’ll have their separate 12-16 team playoff which will morph anything NCAA puts on for other conferences. Other conferences will quickly pull out of NCAA.

I’m not saying I like the current direction of college sports. Conferences signed the billion dollar contracts with television. Players deserve a portion of the $ and no legal entity in America is going to prevent them from getting it.
 
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Bingo!!

This IS NOT about the players getting a fair share of the revenue.

This is all about Big Government wanting to grab the biggest share of all that free money floating around right now.

Players about to learn.....so are the schools and big donors.
This isn’t Big Government.

This is the result of action taken by current athletes at USC who are being advised/directed by the same advocates who have been driving a lot of the pro-athlete legal efforts the past few years.

By law, once the players filed their claim the NLRB was required to pursue this.

Personally, I don’t think this is something worth getting worked up about yet. There’s no guarantee that the initial judge will side with the athletes, and including the PAC-12 and NCAA in their claim seems like a very risky gamble to me.
 
Because a stoppage interrupts games. People fall out of regular viewing = find other stuff to do, which hurts the overall interest/profitability. See the 1994 MLB strike and what it did to that sport (or the NHL for that matter that hasn't recovered from the myriad of work stoppages that plagued it after 1994).
Why should they care if you stop watching?
 
Bingo!!

This IS NOT about the players getting a fair share of the revenue.

This is all about Big Government wanting to grab the biggest share of all that free money floating around right now.

Players about to learn.....so are the schools and big donors.
🙄 this is a result of a legal challenge made by some USC athletes.
 
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🙄 this is a result of a legal challenge made by some USC athletes.
Yes. And it will end up in Congress. And anytime the Federal Government gets involved in legislation concerning big dollars, they WILL get their pound of flesh.

Do you honestly think that if these players are given employee status, they will not be required to pay taxes on that income??

And just WHO do you think is prompting these athletes to make a legal challenge?

🙄🙄🙄🙄
 
Yes. And it will end up in Congress. And anytime the Federal Government gets involved in legislation concerning big dollars, they WILL get their pound of flesh.

Do you honestly think that if these players are given employee status, they will not be required to pay taxes on that income??

And just WHO do you think is prompting these athletes to make a legal challenge?

🙄🙄🙄🙄
Dude, they pay taxes on NIL income. If players seek employee status then there may be tax implications that go with it. While scholarships are carved out as non-taxable, tuition reimbursements is taxable in excess of $5250.
It will be decided by the courts, not congress. If it is decided that athletes are in fact employees then congress will have to decide how to fit it into the tax code.
 
Dude, they pay taxes on NIL income. If players seek employee status then there may be tax implications that go with it. While scholarships are carved out as non-taxable, tuition reimbursements is taxable in excess of $5250.
It will be decided by the courts, not congress. If it is decided that athletes are in fact employees then congress will have to decide how to fit it into the tax code.
Nice way to repeat what I just said about players being taxed as employees. That is for the government.

Have a nice day.
 
^ I think this will be a legal issue before it becomes a govt issue.

The new NCAA President gives me hope that they’re not just going to keep their heads in the sand. (Totally ignoring NIL and paying players made it worse.)

Compensation is a forgone conclusion. The issue now is whether it comes directly from school (contract or employee) or from NIL. I’m 100% speculating, but I think conference commissioners want it to come from schools. They know the current situation is not sustainable. This is reason I expect to see a breakaway from NCAA.
 
Why should they care if you stop watching?
Are you really this dense?!?! I'm talking about people largely just getting out of the habit of watching games/doing something else. EVERY sports league worries about that because less viewers = less advertising revenue = less money for a TV contract.
 
Are you really this dense?!?! I'm talking about people largely just getting out of the habit of watching games/doing something else. EVERY sports league worries about that because less viewers = less advertising revenue = less money for a TV contract.
You’ve explained why the networks and schools would care. Explain to me why a kid not getting paid would care?
 
^ I think this will be a legal issue before it becomes a govt issue.

The new NCAA President gives me hope that they’re not just going to keep their heads in the sand. (Totally ignoring NIL and paying players made it worse.)

Compensation is a forgone conclusion. The issue now is whether it comes directly from school (contract or employee) or from NIL. I’m 100% speculating, but I think conference commissioners want it to come from schools. They know the current situation is not sustainable. This is reason I expect to see a breakaway from NCAA.
The NCAA is the schools. If it isn’t the NCAA then it will be some other NCAA-like organization.
 
The NCAA is the schools. If it isn’t the NCAA then it will be some other NCAA-like organization.
I agree. The current NCAA is ALL the schools. Most of them are not impacted by any of this, and probably why they have ignored it. NCAA doesn’t want to lose 2 major conferences because of March Madness.

I think 2 or more conferences pull away from NCAA, or NCAA will have a separate division for P5.
 
Dude, they pay taxes on NIL income. If players seek employee status then there may be tax implications that go with it. While scholarships are carved out as non-taxable, tuition reimbursements is taxable in excess of $5250.
It will be decided by the courts, not congress. If it is decided that athletes are in fact employees then congress will have to decide how to fit it into the tax code.

Scholarships aren't typically taxed but this isn't the typical student either. If the school is the employer than there is a wage of other currency or like kind exchange. This could fall to either. Hopefully none of it comes to fruition
 
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