NatIonal Labor Relations Board to pursue unlawful labor practices against USC, Pac-12, NCAA

[zwynn10]

Per the SCOTUS ruling making college athletes employees will change absolutely nothing. Collectives and independent boosters will continue to buy/compensate athletes because they can. Why on earth would they give to the school when they can go straight to the player?

There hasn’t yet been a SCOTUS ruling making players employees, yet. One US Court of Appeals is considering the question and the NLRB is pursuing the question as an administrative proceeding. Ultimately, I think the rulings will make players employees.

There are two reasons money will flow to players from the university and not boosters through NIL.

First, players will have leverage to negotiate their salary with the university and the players will prefer to get money as salary so taxes are withheld and the players don’t have to pay someone to track the NIL money, pay estimated taxes, etc. It is easier for the player to just get a paycheck every week from the university rather than worrying about making appearances, signing autographs, etc. The university will lean on boosters for donations to pay those salaries and boosters aren’t going to do both donations and NIL.

Second, it frees boosters from having to arrange NIL stuff. The boosters can just write a tax deductible check to the university and not be bothered with whether the NIL activities are compliant with whatever remains of NCAA rules.

Funneling money to players through a university salary is just easier on everyone - players and boosters.

 

[bballcat4]

Going to be thousands of young men and women lose access to a FREE college education when many of these programs are shut down. Be careful what you ask for...

Scholarships will always be part of college sports. I doubt schools will take away scholarships because players get paid. SEC schools give full rides to students all the time while same student is getting paid.

Im just guessing, but I think the big $ paid to players will come from conference schools raking in huge television money. I don’t expect smaller schools (and schools with smaller budgets) to be greatly impacted for the reasons you pointed out. As my daddy used to say “You can’t get blood out of a turnip?” I agree with you that these schools simply will not have the money to offer. There is a great divide between the “haves and the have nots.” I expect 3 major super conference. The question will be whether they break completely away from NCAA or a new division is created.

 

[rqarnold]

There hasn’t yet been a SCOTUS ruling making players employees, yet. One US Court of Appeals is considering the question and the NLRB is pursuing the question as an administrative proceeding. Ultimately, I think the rulings will make players employees.

There are two reasons money will flow to players from the university and not boosters through NIL.

First, players will have leverage to negotiate their salary with the university and the players will prefer to get money as salary so taxes are withheld and the players don’t have to pay someone to track the NIL money, pay estimated taxes, etc. It is easier for the player to just get a paycheck every week from the university rather than worrying about making appearances, signing autographs, etc. The university will lean on boosters for donations to pay those salaries and boosters aren’t going to do both donations and NIL.

Second, it frees boosters from having to arrange NIL stuff. The boosters can just write a tax deductible check to the university and not be bothered with whether the NIL activities are compliant with whatever remains of NCAA rules.

Funneling money to players through a university salary is just easier on everyone - players and boosters.

Congratulations! You must be the most naive person alive. Virtually no one is going to turn down opportunities to make $2K in a couple of hours signing autographs because they don’t want to deal with tax implications.
Boosters giving to schools and athletes is as old as college athletics itself. The Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that the NCAA couldn’t limit athletes from profiting off of NIL…it ain’t going away. The only thing the NCAA can restrict is what the schools themselves do They can’t regulate the athletes or the boosters with regards to money changing hands.
Tell me what person doesn’t want more money than what they already receive? Pay them $50K and they will want $100K, pay them $1M and they will want $10M. You really think human nature will change?

 

[zwynn10]

Congratulations! You must be the most naive person alive. Virtually no one is going to turn down opportunities to make $2K in a couple of hours signing autographs because they don’t want to deal with tax implications.
Boosters giving to schools and athletes is as old as college athletics itself. The Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that the NCAA couldn’t limit athletes from profiting off of NIL…it ain’t going away. The only thing the NCAA can restrict is what the schools themselves do They can’t regulate the athletes or the boosters with regards to money changing hands.
Tell me what person doesn’t want more money than what they already receive? Pay them $50K and they will want $100K, pay them $1M and they will want $10M. You really think human nature will change?

I don’t take message boards personally but name-calling on a message board is not my style. For that reason, I will leave the naive comment alone.

The point is that you missed the point. If players are “employees” of the university, there are no NCAA rules that restrict what the university can pay their employees. Consequently, a UK basketball player can negotiate a $500,000 salary and get a paycheck every 2 weeks with taxes withheld. The university has to fund that salary and so will ask boosters to make tax deductible contributions to the university. Player gets his money with taxes withheld and a W-2 at the end of the year, boosters make tax deductible contributions and get a receipt at year end to take charitable contribution deductions and the athletic department budget is keep whole. All of that would be perfectly compliant with NCAA rules and tax laws.

Contrast that with a player showing up at a booster arranged event, cutting a tv commercial or signing autographs, collecting the money, having the agent/accountant remit taxes quarterly and paying the agent/accountant a % for services rendered.

Clearly, players and boosters are going to prefer the former to the latter. NIL will still be a thing, but players that can command a good salary are going to want a steady paycheck and not have to worry about generating NIL money.

 

[Ky grandpa]

It all boils down to a money issue from the politicians to have more to spend.. "If" this come's down it will totally destroy college sport's.... These kid's crying for more money will not cry when the IRS sends them a bill at the end of each tax year... Just like some one said in here when it happens and the are declared to be employee's they will have to pay for every thing the get not matter what it is.... Washington DC is the big winner if it happens, not the kid's or the schools....
If all this happens there will be million's of fans leave the sports... All of them.......


GBB

 

[rqarnold]

I don’t take message boards personally but name-calling on a message board is not my style. For that reason, I will leave the naive comment alone.

The point is that you missed the point. If players are “employees” of the university, there are no NCAA rules that restrict what the university can pay their employees. Consequently, a UK basketball player can negotiate a $500,000 salary and get a paycheck every 2 weeks with taxes withheld. The university has to fund that salary and so will ask boosters to make tax deductible contributions to the university. Player gets his money with taxes withheld and a W-2 at the end of the year, boosters make tax deductible contributions and get a receipt at year end to take charitable contribution deductions and the athletic department budget is keep whole. All of that would be perfectly compliant with NCAA rules and tax laws.

Contrast that with a player showing up at a booster arranged event, cutting a tv commercial or signing autographs, collecting the money, having the agent/accountant remit taxes quarterly and paying the agent/accountant a % for services rendered.

Clearly, players and boosters are going to prefer the former to the latter. NIL will still be a thing, but players that can command a good salary are going to want a steady paycheck and not have to worry about generating NIL money.

I’d say you’re clearly clueless. Schools will never negotiate salaries for athletes. Go familiarize yourself with Title IX and you’ll begin to understand why.
With that understanding you then will realize that the bidding wars will continue and collectives and deep pocketed boosters will be at the heart of those efforts. Your naivety is preventing you from seeing the elephant in the room. People love tax free money. Signing autographs and other personal appearances are a great avenue to that tax free money. Report the checks and credit card payments, pocket the cash. It’s what people do.
BTW, the school provides “accounting services” for the athletes/NIL.

 

[rqarnold]

It all boils down to a money issue from the politicians to have more to spend.. "If" this come's down it will totally destroy college sport's.... These kid's crying for more money will not cry when the IRS sends them a bill at the end of each tax year... Just like some one said in here when it happens and the are declared to be employee's they will have to pay for every thing the get not matter what it is.... Washington DC is the big winner if it happens, not the kid's or the schools....
If all this happens there will be million's of fans leave the sports... All of them.......


GBB

Serious question for all of the “they will cry” folks. Do you receive training at work and are you taxed on the value of that training?
I can’t answer the first part of that question but the answer to the second part is, no.
They aren’t going to change the tax code to make their scholarships taxable. It simply isn’t going to happen.
Have any of you ever refused a raise because your taxes will also rise? Do you not want to win the lottery because you will have to pay taxes on the winnings?
Lastly, why does it bother you that the kids who you have cheered might be paid, are able to profit from the games that are making millions for the coaches and administrators of their schools?
Most kids will never see more than a few peanuts, some will receive modest incomes and a few will make bank. Such is life.

 

[zwynn10]

I’d say you’re clearly clueless. Schools will never negotiate salaries for athletes. Go familiarize yourself with Title IX and you’ll begin to understand why.
With that understanding you then will realize that the bidding wars will continue and collectives and deep pocketed boosters will be at the heart of those efforts. Your naivety is preventing you from seeing the elephant in the room. People love tax free money. Signing autographs and other personal appearances are a great avenue to that tax free money. Report the checks and credit card payments, pocket the cash. It’s what people do.
BTW, the school provides “accounting services” for the athletes/NIL.

Why do you think some athletes are pushing the employee issue through the courts? It’s because they want to be considered employees. Why do they want to be employees? It’s because they want want to be paid more than their existing scholarship and stipend - they want to be paid a salary.

If courts rule that athletes are employees, the university is forced by law to pay an employee. The only option a university has is to negotiate and pay a salary or not have employees (athletes). There would be no in-between position, unless the players unionize in which case the university would have to negotiate a union contract with the players’ union which would have a wage scale and the university would pay salary to the players based on that wage scale.

Title IX is not really implicated by the employment issue. Title IX basically says that a university must give a comparable number of athletic scholarships to women as it does to men and that the athletics facilities and support for men and women athletes must be comparable.

I think what you are trying to point out is employment discrimination laws. Those laws generally provide, among other things, that a woman must be paid the same wage as a man doing the same or comparable job. These laws clearly are going to be a problem to navigate if athletes are ruled to be employees. If the point guard for the UK basketball team is paid $100,000, does the university have to pay the UK women’s team point guard the same amount. What if the men’s point guard is All-American and the women’s team point guard is not.

This type of issue played out in public with US Soccer, the employer of the players on the men’s and women’s national soccer teams. The men were being paid much more than the women even though the women win World Cups and the men struggle to make it out of pool play (and didn’t even qualify for the 2018 World Cup). US Soccer had to raise the salaries of the players on the women’s team to get more into compliance with employment discrimination laws.

If athletes are considered employees and universities are required by law to pay them a salary, universities will have two big issues: (a) donors are going to need to step up contributions to the athletic department to fund salaries; and (b) ADs are going to have to deal with discrimination laws in relation to men’s vs women’s teams.

 

[zwynn10]

Serious question for all of the “they will cry” folks. Do you receive training at work and are you taxed on the value of that training?
I can’t answer the first part of that question but the answer to the second part is, no.
They aren’t going to change the tax code to make their scholarships taxable. It simply isn’t going to happen.
Have any of you ever refused a raise because your taxes will also rise? Do you not want to win the lottery because you will have to pay taxes on the winnings?
Lastly, why does it bother you that the kids who you have cheered might be paid, are able to profit from the games that are making millions for the coaches and administrators of their schools?
Most kids will never see more than a few peanuts, some will receive modest incomes and a few will make bank. Such is life.

On your first question - employees are not taxed on employer provided or paid training because the Internal Revenue Code provides that the benefit is for the employer, not the employee, and thus the employee has not received a benefit that is taxable.

On your second point, the Internal Revenue Code will have conflicting provisions. One provision states that scholarships are not taxable income. Another provision states that anything of monetary value that an employee receives from an employer is taxable income, except for certain enumerated things such as the cost of administering an employee benefit plan in which an employee participates. Paying for an athlete’s tuition, books, room and board (the scholarship) would be something of value the employee (the athlete) is receiving from the employer (the university) and hence, the player has received taxable income.

This conflict will need to be resolved by the IRS through rulemaking and publishing new IRS regulations on the point (if it is within IRS authority) or by Congress amending the Internal Revenue Code. Federal courts might also resolve it by interpreting the provisions in question to come down on one side or the other.

The continued notion that players for the two revenue generating sports are getting cheated because they don’t share in the millions of dollars generated by those two sports is baffling. If you take all the revenue (tv money, conference payouts, ticket revenue, K-Fund donations, licensing revenue from merchandise, etc) and subtract (1) the costs of the football program (scholarships and room and board for 85 players, cost of 20 or so assistant coaches and staff, team travel expenses, medical bills for surgeries, team doctors, etc., all travel, lodging and other costs for 40 or so annual recruiting visits, cost of coaches to travel out for 50 or so coaches visits to recruits (some recruits with multiple visits), costs for helmets and other equipment, cost to maintain the stadium, including new field turf this year, and the practice facility, etc), and (2) the costs for the basketball team (rental fee and costs of Rupp for home games, scholarship and room and board for 10+ scholarship players, cost of maintaining practice facility, cost of running and maintaining of the players’ dedicate lodging facility, cost of team travel, the travel, lodging and other expenses of recruit visits, cost of coaches making recruiting visits, etc.) and (3) the cost of 16 or so other men and women’s sports, that revenue is not as big as one thinks.

Notice I didn’t mention head coaches in the cost. Cal and Coach Stoops are each making about $9 million year, women’s b-ball team coach is making I think somewhere between $1 -$2 million, coaches of the other sports are making generally between $500,000 and $1 million and the Off and Def Coordinator for football are each making $1.5 to $1.8 million and a recruiting coordinator/TE coach is making $1.25 million. The AD makes a million. If anyone is “making” money off the players, it is their coaches. I don’t really even believe that because the salaries being paid are, generally, market rates these days.

All of the foregoing is public information. Folks ought to look at and understand the UK athletic budget details before focusing on the revenue side and not the expense side. See link below.

University of Kentucky | College Athletics Database

knightnewhousedata.org

 

[sluggercatfan]

I’d say you’re clearly clueless. Schools will never negotiate salaries for athletes. Go familiarize yourself with Title IX and you’ll begin to understand why.
With that understanding you then will realize that the bidding wars will continue and collectives and deep pocketed boosters will be at the heart of those efforts. Your naivety is preventing you from seeing the elephant in the room. People love tax free money. Signing autographs and other personal appearances are a great avenue to that tax free money. Report the checks and credit card payments, pocket the cash. It’s what people do.
BTW, the school provides “accounting services” for the athletes/NIL.

Isn't this the purpose of the 87,000 new irs agents the morons in the cdp want to reign in these types of tax evaders?